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Bill_Bones
12-03-2005, 07:21 PM
Here comes yet another annoying noobie...

With a question about PF... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Let's start... a looong time ago, I installed Il-2 in my ooold computer, which was below minimal requirements... anyway I tinkered a bit with the game, and one of the thigns I tried was to perform a by-the-book "taran" (Yak7 against a Do-17)... After several attempts, I did he right manuvr, and it ended with no damage to the tail fin of my victim and the total destruction of my engine. Not what happened in real life. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Now I've got a new computer, have bought PF and have installed it on a 2nd-hand copy of FB+AEP... and my question is... is it possible to perform a decent "taran" with PF's airplanes?

The theory of "taran" is to place one's propeller to the left (or right) of the target's tail fin then make a smooth yaw towards the fin so the propeller's disk hits the fin. With the engine at some 2,200 rpm & the thinest propeller pitch, the attacker shouldn't be damaged (in case it avoided a total collision), while the target's tail fin/stabylizers/tail section should nearly disintegrate. That was what happened in real life and the reason why "taran" was a useful last resource...

But, can a realistic "taran" (where the attacker had a good chance to survive unharmed) be performed in FP? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Bill_Bones
12-03-2005, 07:21 PM
Here comes yet another annoying noobie...

With a question about PF... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Let's start... a looong time ago, I installed Il-2 in my ooold computer, which was below minimal requirements... anyway I tinkered a bit with the game, and one of the thigns I tried was to perform a by-the-book "taran" (Yak7 against a Do-17)... After several attempts, I did he right manuvr, and it ended with no damage to the tail fin of my victim and the total destruction of my engine. Not what happened in real life. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Now I've got a new computer, have bought PF and have installed it on a 2nd-hand copy of FB+AEP... and my question is... is it possible to perform a decent "taran" with PF's airplanes?

The theory of "taran" is to place one's propeller to the left (or right) of the target's tail fin then make a smooth yaw towards the fin so the propeller's disk hits the fin. With the engine at some 2,200 rpm & the thinest propeller pitch, the attacker shouldn't be damaged (in case it avoided a total collision), while the target's tail fin/stabylizers/tail section should nearly disintegrate. That was what happened in real life and the reason why "taran" was a useful last resource...

But, can a realistic "taran" (where the attacker had a good chance to survive unharmed) be performed in FP? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Tater-SW-
12-03-2005, 07:37 PM
It's possible, but depends on plane type. As seems to be typically the case some of the most robust american engines (the PW R2800) virtually always stop dead, while weaker engines like the one in the Ki-43 do just fine. Go figure.

tater

HotelBushranger
12-03-2005, 10:21 PM
It's pretty much a case of touch n go. The DM isn't reliable, nor is it realistic: I heard quite a while ago Oleg made it that way to disencourage deliberate ramming. Nonetheless, it should be in, IMO.

FritzGryphon
12-03-2005, 11:48 PM
I know it used to be possible in IL-2. I did it many times, even in VEF missions.

But if it's gone, I'm glad. On one occasion, I rammed 3 Pe-3s in a FW-190, destroying them all, and recieving no damage in return.

Offline, I could ram a seemingly infite number of planes, so long as I hit only the vertical stabilizers. Certainly not what ought to happen.

actionhank1786
12-04-2005, 03:25 AM
this doesn't really relate a whole lot, but the other day, i was flying a flight of Ki-61's against some P-40s, and i was lining one up for a shot, when out of no where my wingman comes screaming down on the target, a bit too close, and he just barely scrapes under, his vertical stabalizer sliced through the P-40's wing and ripped it clean off, he lost his vert. and i told him to RTB, but hey! One less bandit for me!

carguy_
12-04-2005, 03:47 AM
I don`t think that`s possible in 4.02.Never seen anything like this happen.You can do the wing-to-wing thing though.Ruskies do it routinely on Ju87.

mortoma
12-05-2005, 08:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bill_Bones:
Here comes yet another annoying noobie...

With a question about PF... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Let's start... a looong time ago, I installed Il-2 in my ooold computer, which was below minimal requirements... anyway I tinkered a bit with the game, and one of the thigns I tried was to perform a by-the-book "taran" (Yak7 against a Do-17)... After several attempts, I did he right manuvr, and it ended with no damage to the tail fin of my victim and the total destruction of my engine. Not what happened in real life. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Now I've got a new computer, have bought PF and have installed it on a 2nd-hand copy of FB+AEP... and my question is... is it possible to perform a decent "taran" with PF's airplanes?

The theory of "taran" is to place one's propeller to the left (or right) of the target's tail fin then make a smooth yaw towards the fin so the propeller's disk hits the fin. With the engine at some 2,200 rpm & the thinest propeller pitch, the attacker shouldn't be damaged (in case it avoided a total collision), while the target's tail fin/stabylizers/tail section should nearly disintegrate. That was what happened in real life and the reason why "taran" was a useful last resource...

But, can a realistic "taran" (where the attacker had a good chance to survive unharmed) be performed in FP? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Since when has there been a D0-17 in this game???? Maybe the upcoming BoB series but there ain't one in
FB/AEP/PF!!!!!

Kuna15
12-05-2005, 01:59 PM
The best Taran I have been able to discover so far is to ram enemy plane with tail section (works quite well) or perhaps with gear (tricky, I have never done it but I think it's possible).

TgD Thunderbolt56
12-06-2005, 12:56 PM
Kamikaze's, Taran's or whatever you want to calldeliberate or unintentional collisions of aircraft aren't modeled very well in-game. They usually result in outright explosions.

TB

MajorBloodnok
12-06-2005, 01:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:

Since when has there been a D0-17 in this game???? Maybe the upcoming BoB series but there ain't one in
FB/AEP/PF!!!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, that's what I was thinking! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Bill_Bones
12-06-2005, 01:37 PM
Duh.

I thought "Ju-88". My fingers typed "Do-17". My fault. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

Platypus_1.JaVA
12-06-2005, 02:03 PM
I did that two times in an I-16 in Il-2 v1.2 I just ran out of ammo and there where 2 more He-111 in the air. I got both of them altough they didn't count as kills and I was never able to reproduce it.

Rattler68
12-07-2005, 10:49 AM
It seems to me that the notion of ramming an enemy a/c when out of ammo it akin to my wanting to ram an enemy tank when I'm out of ammo. I would never consider it! However, given the desperation of the early war years for the Soviets, I could see its value (same with the Kamikaze in late PTO.) I read in a RCAF Spit pilots autobiography that he recalled the Polish Spit pilots being so consumed with killing Germans that they would rush to get back into the air when the Canadians would head to the Mess. Also, one Polish pilot was so happy that he'd killed a German that he forgot to lower his gear and unintentionally belly landed! Oh, the passion of some pilots!

Tater-SW-
12-07-2005, 11:20 AM
A few F4Us were chasing a japanese recon plane that was at high altitude. By the time they caught up to it they were so high their guns had all frozen. On pilot, not wanting to leave him be decided to close on the enemy and saw his tail off with the huge prop on the F4U. He downed the snooper and landed with several feet off the props for his trouble.

In PF looking at the PW R2800 makes it sieze up so this is not possible.

tater

Bill_Bones
12-07-2005, 11:53 AM
Houm...

"Taran" was NOT ramming, and was NOT a desperate or suicidal maneuver. It was a way to finish an airplane after exausting ammunition.

In real life the fight between massive and hardenned spinning blades at high RPM and lightweigt tail fin structures was not a fight: the slightest touch of the propller would send the tail to hell. Of course, it was not a standard tactic. It wasn't encouraged unless when it was a highly valuable target (FAI, a recon airplane). And it had its own dangers, apart of a straight-on collision (just mind of the aft gunners). But in real life it worked...

Anyway, after looking around this forum I've noticed that Il-2 still has got plenty of room to catch up with real life. So, maybe someday... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Vuco1
12-07-2005, 03:15 PM
I did it couple of times in original Il2 (no patches installed) but I think it became impossible already after the first patch.

alfa_fsb
12-07-2005, 04:13 PM
I`ve tried it in a Hayabusa vs Blenheim ... but i didn`t knew i don`t have a parachute in the Ki-43 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

But if you can "eject" you can try and hit your wing with the enemy`s this way if you survive you get a kill.

Giantiguana20
12-07-2005, 07:10 PM
Explain to me how a pilot allows this to happen to himself? Getting shot down is one thing , but being such a piss poor pilot that you allow the enemy to ride up on you and chop your tail off with his prop is unbelievable. Dogfighting is a violent turning chaotic mess, and only a suicidal pilot would try it. It would be easier to pull up alongside and shoot the other pilot with your service pistol.

alfa_fsb
12-07-2005, 07:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Giantiguana20:
Explain to me how a pilot allows this to happen to himself? Getting shot down is one thing , but being such a piss poor pilot that you allow the enemy to ride up on you and chop your tail off with his prop is unbelievable. Dogfighting is a violent turning chaotic mess, and only a suicidal pilot would try it. It would be easier to pull up alongside and shoot the other pilot with your service pistol. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
When you can`t see the enemy fighter ... and remeber that the Taran and such attacks were done mainly against bombers and transport planes that were not manuvrable to dogfight.

And i don`t agree with you with the dogfight being chaotic ... is rather an organized chaos http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

actionhank1786
12-07-2005, 11:00 PM
Well i can't see this happening unless i was completely taken by suprise.
Seems like one violent kick of the rudder may tear up his hind, but it'd also smash the front end of the plane all to hell.

Bearcat99
12-08-2005, 10:15 AM
I havent done it recently.. but I did do it in a P-51 against a 109.. by accident. I was trying to line up a shot and I would up taking off his rudder. That may have been in 2.xx though. It was early in the P-51s life in the sim.