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View Full Version : Who downed Douglas Bader?



Jex_TE
10-23-2008, 03:13 PM
I just finished watching this channel 4 documentary which I think most people here would enjoy.

http://www.channel4.com/video/brandless-catchup.jsp?vod...downed-douglas-bader (http://www.channel4.com/video/brandless-catchup.jsp?vodBrand=who-downed-douglas-bader)

that link should take you to the correct page http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

26 days left to watch it.

Jex_TE
10-23-2008, 03:13 PM
I just finished watching this channel 4 documentary which I think most people here would enjoy.

http://www.channel4.com/video/brandless-catchup.jsp?vod...downed-douglas-bader (http://www.channel4.com/video/brandless-catchup.jsp?vodBrand=who-downed-douglas-bader)

that link should take you to the correct page http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

26 days left to watch it.

Mr_Zooly
10-23-2008, 03:15 PM
I saw that program, its seems (at least according to the program) that one of his flight downed him.

DuckyFluff
10-23-2008, 03:38 PM
Unsurprisingly...as by all accounts he was a complete b*****D http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Mr_Zooly
10-23-2008, 03:45 PM
I met the guy and he was an arrogant self publicist but what did you expect?
He was the only BoB veteran that had his autobiographical book made into a film.

TgD Thunderbolt56
10-23-2008, 03:54 PM
If I'm a fighter jock, crash, lose my legs, get back in the pit, fly in the Battle of Britain, become a flight leader and still survive the war...I'll behave however I want.

I wouldn't begrudge the man being a jerk. I'll be one when I'm old and cranky too (hell, I'm well on the way right now!). I mean it's not like he was killing kittens and hated babies.


TB

VF-17_Jolly
10-23-2008, 03:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
If I'm a fighter jock, crash, lose my legs, get back in the pit, fly in the Battle of Britain, become a flight leader and still survive the war...I'll behave however I want.

I wouldn't begrudge the man being a jerk. I'll be one when I'm old and cranky too (hell, I'm well on the way right now!). I mean it's not like he was killing kittens and hated babies.


TB </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif reality check please

MB_Avro_UK
10-23-2008, 04:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
If I'm a fighter jock, crash, lose my legs, get back in the pit, fly in the Battle of Britain, become a flight leader and still survive the war...I'll behave however I want.

I wouldn't begrudge the man being a jerk. I'll be one when I'm old and cranky too (hell, I'm well on the way right now!). I mean it's not like he was killing kittens and hated babies.


TB </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ImpStarDuece
10-23-2008, 07:12 PM
A fine fighter pilot, but, if Bader had been less of a self aggrandizing peacock, and hadn't tried to tie himself to the coattail of Leigh Mallory and Shoto Douglas, then the whole 'Big Wing' balls up during the Battle of Britain might have been averted.

This, as much as anything else, lead to the dismissal of Dowding promptly after the Battle, although Stuffy's position as CiC Fighter Command had already been extended past its natural tenure. If he hadn't got the chop in November 1940, the rolling cl*sterf*ck that the RAF's 'Lean into France' had evolved into by mid 1941, under Shoto Douglas, might of been avoided as well.

Then again, if Dowding had taken both Leigh-Mallory and Bader by the scruff of the neck, and given them a good shaking about, shown them a few teeth and had given them a stern talking too, the whole mess may have been averted in the first place. This wasn't his way though. Besides, given Leigh-Mallory's connections, and the predisposition of both Portal and Churchill for men of action, ˜Stuffy' may have been out on his ear by the end of September, 1940.

Still, Bader's grandstanding did mean that Park ended up in Malta in 1942, which was about the best possible place for the man. No-one in the world knew how to run an intercept and defend operation as well as

stalkervision
10-23-2008, 07:24 PM
wasn't badger the RAF pilot that had his "johnnie" shot off in combat and carried a spare artifical wooden one in his ****-pit. When he was shot down by the germans he requested his spare one and the germans sent a mesasage to the RAF requesting a rush job delivery. For their kind effort the RAF strafed the german airbase he was at delivering his spare tool by "air mail" at the same time. He then escaped with it to england using it as a small shovel to dig under a guard post fence but not before giving a French farm girl a serious case of carpenter ants and wood splinters.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Tab_Flettner
10-23-2008, 09:32 PM
Fantastic book by Paul Brickhill. Good movie too - Bader is a true English hero. Lots of good stuff in the book about out of control Canadians too.

What people forget sometimes is that it was his arrogance that lost him his legs to begin with.

When you read a number of these accounts, the successful fighter pilots on both sides shared some very similar traits.

Los_Toros
10-24-2008, 02:51 AM
The guy had an indomitable spirit about him that inspired others around him in those dark days of WW2. Heart attack got him on 5th September, 1982. May he rest in peace.

K_Freddie
10-24-2008, 03:13 AM
You may have noticed throught the ages that there are different types of leaders.. Some with real 'attitudes' that only shine during times of conflict - Winston Churchill, BD, and some others.
Whereas others are better at peactime leadership.

It's generally a well known fact that wartime leaders are not suitable for peacetime. It's not that they're bad people, they just bad for the peace http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif - Talking about the good guys that is.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

M_Gunz
10-24-2008, 07:42 AM
They say that hindsight is 20-20.
It's pretty clear that isn't _always_ so.

PhantomKira
10-24-2008, 10:51 AM
Being arrogant seems to be part of being a fighter pilot. You have to know that you're the best, if you're going to do what they did. Going up and betting your life that you have more skill than the other guy. You can only reasonably do that if you are convinced that you're better than he is, and that you'll win.

Of the fighter pilots I've met, there's exactly one, Robin Olds, who didn't come across as arrogant. He seemed to be to the point of being so strongly aware that he was good, that he didn't need to prove it through arrogance. You wanted to know, he'd just show you, arrogance not required. I was very impressed by that.

Aaron_GT
10-24-2008, 11:09 AM
There's reasonable evidence that Bader knew he'd been shot down (accidentally, he was probably right behind a 109 at the time) by one of his own side, and all credit to him for covering it up and saving his colleague the embarassment.

Certainly a complex man. He lost his legs by being too cocky by half, but coming back from that to fly again took incredible guts and effort. Managing to do that isn't likely to make you any less cocky!

stugumby
10-25-2008, 08:06 AM
I remeber reading his book when i was a kid, good stuff. Egotistical people abound, but sometimes they fit the bill to a T. Every organization has followers, leaders and always the barracks lawyer, and my favorite the whiner who back snips everything, can do the job him/herself but wont.

Look at Robin Olds, Pappy Boyington, Claire Chennault and Billy Mitchell, powerfull personalities all.

Bremspropeller
10-25-2008, 08:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Robin Olds, who didn't come across as arrogant. He seemed to be to the point of being so strongly aware that he was good, that he didn't need to prove it through arrogance. You wanted to know, he'd just show you, arrogance not required. I was very impressed by that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


That's what a TRUE leader looks like http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

PhantomKira
10-25-2008, 02:09 PM
Amen to that Brems!

Crazy_Goanna
10-25-2008, 08:49 PM
Ego and Rust

Xiolablu3
10-26-2008, 06:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PhantomKira:
Being arrogant seems to be part of being a fighter pilot. You have to know that you're the best, if you're going to do what they did. Going up and betting your life that you have more skill than the other guy. You can only reasonably do that if you are convinced that you're better than he is, and that you'll win.

Of the fighter pilots I've met, there's exactly one, Robin Olds, who didn't come across as arrogant. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I can't imagine Bob Doe (the big bloke with a very deep voice at 1m26s) being arrogant in any way, nor any of the fighter pilots interviewed here...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1Z4Es4txBo&feature=related