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View Full Version : Bit cheesy, but some good spit pics from 1941 ish



The.Tyke
12-09-2008, 02:37 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/DingleRoad/c-18.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/DingleRoad/c-18.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/DingleRoad/Spit.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/DingleRoad/c-17.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/DingleRoad/c-16.jpg

The.Tyke
12-09-2008, 02:37 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/DingleRoad/c-18.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/DingleRoad/c-18.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/DingleRoad/Spit.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/DingleRoad/c-17.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/DingleRoad/c-16.jpg

The.Tyke
12-09-2008, 02:54 AM
The guy on the left is thought to be F/Lt Edward J. 'Jumbo' Gracie.



F/Lt Edward J. 'Jumbo' Gracie flew with No 56 Squadron during the Battle. On the 10th of July 1940 his Hurricane was damaged in combat with some Bf 110's and he crash landed with a seized engine at Manston. He destroyed four enemy aircraft before the 8th of August 1940, and a further three before the 30th of August 1940. On the 30th of August 1940 he destroyed a Heinkel He 111 but was himself shot down at 16:45hrs, crash-landing his Hurricane I (R2689). He thought himself unhurt but next day discovered he had a broken neck, requiring admission to hospital! Gracie was awarded the D.F.C. on the 1st of October 1940. He scored six more kills flying from Malta. E.J.Gracie later flew Mosquito's on night escort for R.A.F. heavy bombers. E.J.Gracie was K.I.A. on the 15th of February 1944, aged 32.


Serial Range HJ699 - HJ715. 17 Mosquito NF.Mk11. Powered by Merlin 21 engines. Delivered by De Havilland (Hatfield) between 12Mar43 and 20May43. HJ707 was the first Mosquito lost since 169 Sqdn joined 100 Group. Airborne 1845 15Feb44 from Little Snoring on a Serrate Patrol. Intercepted N of Hannover at 23,000 feet by a night-fighter, whose fire set light to the starboard engine. F/L Todd, as ordered, baled out but W/C Gracie, a senior RAF officer who had joined the Service in the late 1920s, was unable to leave the aircraft. He is buried in Hannover War Cemetery. W/C E.J.Gracie DFC KIA F/L W.W.Todd PoW F/L W.W.Todd was interned in Camp L3, PoW No.3513. Designed the Great Escape Memorial

Xiolablu3
12-09-2008, 08:01 AM
Very nice pics mate, thanks!

MB_Avro_UK
12-09-2008, 12:59 PM
Great pics and thanks for posting. Those LIFE photographers were rather good!

Divine-Wind
12-09-2008, 03:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
Great pics and thanks for posting. Those LIFE photographers were rather good! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, those are pretty clear pictures!

Xiolablu3
12-09-2008, 03:17 PM
Anyone know what mark those SPits are?

How do we tell between a Mk1A, MkIIA and MkVA?

biggs222
12-09-2008, 04:24 PM
Judging by the color of the Nose cone and the white band near the tale, those pics look like they were taken either very late 1940 or early 41. its hard to tell the difference between the mkI and the mkII both shared pretty much the same exterior. the only difference was the engine the MKII was fitted with the merlin XII (had a bit better higher alt performance than the merlin II / III, which the spit mkI used.)

another variable is the propeller... all of those pics EXCEPT the first one show the spit with the 2 pitch, de Havilland 3 blade propeller on the mkI.

by the time these pics were taken de havilland had already upgraded the propeller to a constant speed one... however im not sure if there is any visual difference between the 2 pitch and the constant speed...

now the FIRST pic clearly shows the wider Rotol constant-speed propeller and the rounded tip spinner that only the MKII used.

More proof that the first pic is the mkII spit is the blister on the front left corner of the cowling.

with all the retrofitting and small internal and external upgrades telling the difference between the two marks cand be difficult.

tomtheyak
12-09-2008, 06:59 PM
Hmmm, I reckon that the a/c in the 1st pic is a mkII Hurri....

Yeah, the camo definitely puts the spit photos early 1941 - given the high sun angle i'd go with may 1941.

The C type hangars in the background also narrow down the locale - Middle Wallop is an option, or Debden, of course it could be an OTU further north.

The spacing of the Sqn codes is unusual and I've only seen similar on 91 Sqn a/c but the C type hangars are throwing me a bit cos at the period they were based at Hawkinge and Lympne and no C type hangars at either those or their parent station Biggin Hill!

The.Tyke
12-10-2008, 02:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtheyak:
Hmmm, I reckon that the a/c in the 1st pic is a mkII Hurri....

Yeah, the camo definitely puts the spit photos early 1941 - given the high sun angle i'd go with may 1941.

The C type hangars in the background also narrow down the locale - Middle Wallop is an option, or Debden, of course it could be an OTU further north.

The spacing of the Sqn codes is unusual and I've only seen similar on 91 Sqn a/c but the C type hangars are throwing me a bit cos at the period they were based at Hawkinge and Lympne and no C type hangars at either those or their parent station Biggin Hill! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A poster on another site has identified Gracie as having Fl/Lt rings, therefore putting it at Summer 1940 when he was Flight commander in 56 Sqdn.
Don't know where 56 sqdn was based in summer 1940 ?

Banger2004
12-10-2008, 12:15 PM
11 Group 56 Squadron North Weald Essex 03/09/39 Hurricane I.
11 56 Martlesham Heath Suffolk 22/10/39
11 56 North Weald Essex 22/02/40 1 Flight to France 16/05/40.
12 56 Digby Lincolnshire 31/05/40
11 56 North Weald Essex 05/06/40
10 56 Boscombe Down Wiltshire 01/09/40
10 56 Middle Wallop Hampshire 29/11/40
11 56 North Weald Essex 17/12/40
11 56 Martlesham Heath Suffolk 23/06/41 Hurricane IIb, 02/41.
12 56 Duxford Cambridgeshire 26/06/41 Typhoon Ia, 09/41. Typhoon Ib, 03/42.
12 56 Snailwell Suffolk 30/03/42
11 56 Manston Kent 29/05/42
12 56 Snailwell Suffolk 01/06/42
12 56 Matlaske Norfolk 24/08/42
11 56 Manston Kent 22/07/43
11 56 Martlesham Heath Suffolk 06/08/43
11 56 Manston Kent 15/08/43
11 56 Bradwell Bay Essex 23/08/43
11 56 Martlesham Heath Suffolk 04/10/43
13 56 Scorton Yorkshire 15/02/44
13 56 Acklington Northumberland 23/02/44
13 56 Scorton Yorkshire 07/03/44
13 56 Ayr Ayrshire 30/03/44
13 56 Scorton Yorkshire 07/04/44 Spitfire IX, 04/44.
2TAF 56 Newchurch Kent 28/04/44 Tempest V, 06/44.
2TAF 56 Matlaske Norfolk 23/09/44 To Grimbergen, B60, 28/09/44.

I also reckon the first aircraft is a Hurricane, the wing looks very thick.

DuxCorvan
12-10-2008, 12:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The.Tyke:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/DingleRoad/c-18.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Is it a plane? Is it a bird? Is it...? Oh, well, it's actually a plane" "Gosh" "Yeah"

Divine-Wind
12-10-2008, 01:23 PM
lol http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

MB_Avro_UK
12-10-2008, 02:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtheyak:
Hmmm, I reckon that the a/c in the 1st pic is a mkII Hurri....

Yeah, the camo definitely puts the spit photos early 1941 - given the high sun angle i'd go with may 1941.

The C type hangars in the background also narrow down the locale - Middle Wallop is an option, or Debden, of course it could be an OTU further north.

The spacing of the Sqn codes is unusual and I've only seen similar on 91 Sqn a/c but the C type hangars are throwing me a bit cos at the period they were based at Hawkinge and Lympne and no C type hangars at either those or their parent station Biggin Hill! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I suggest that the first pic is of a Spitfire.

Wing is too thin for a Hurricane.

And the upper engine cowling is too flat to be a Hurricane.

VF-17_Jolly
12-10-2008, 02:24 PM
I do believe the first pic is of a Hurricane
going by the bloody great landing light in the wing

http://www.secondworldwarhistory.com/imgs/hawker_hurricane.jpg

Same angle

Divine-Wind
12-10-2008, 02:39 PM
Nose looks wrong for a Hurri.

Aaron_GT
12-10-2008, 03:36 PM
The wing looks pretty thick to me.

Note the bump above the stacks which early Spitfires lack. You can see this lacking on the photos of the Spitfires in the same set.

You can also see the small inlet below, which is more streamlined on the Spitfire.

The picture of Hurricane R411 on wikipedia gives a good view of both.

The Spitfire also lacks the leading edge landing light. AFAIK on the Spitfire it was under the wing.

Sillius_Sodus
12-10-2008, 04:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
Nose looks wrong for a Hurri. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, I think it is a Hurri, if you look closely at the first picture there is a small blister on the top of the cowling. You can see the same blister in VF-17_Jolly's posted picture.

Saburo_0
12-10-2008, 07:39 PM
Second that on the nose blister. Me thinks its a Hurri

Buzzsaw-
12-11-2008, 02:26 AM
Salute

I'd say it was a Hurri too.

Below is a Hurri IV, but the wing, blister, and landing light would be the same.

Click three times on picture for full size.

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/1918/picture060ys9.th.jpg (http://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture060ys9.jpg)

MB_Avro_UK
12-11-2008, 02:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VF-17_Jolly:
I do believe the first pic is of a Hurricane
going by the bloody great landing light in the wing

http://www.secondworldwarhistory.com/imgs/hawker_hurricane.jpg

Same angle </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 'bloody great landing light' that you regard as evidence, is if you care to look only a relection from an oily puddle.

May I direct those who doubt me to the prop blade?

The blade set at two o'clock when viewed from the cockpit has the words stencilled 'Made for Supermarine'. And I have 'viewed from the cockpit' many times.

Did Supermarine make Hurricanes? Did they? Or do you wise chaps know something more than Aviation Historians.

In fact, if you can lipread, those pilots are saying 'This Hurricane behind us is rather spiffing,what!'.

VF-17_Jolly
12-11-2008, 02:35 PM
Face it it's a Hurricane

what they are saying is "I wish we were flying that Spitfire up there and not standing in front of this Hurricane with it's bloody great landing lights" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

I_KG100_Prien
12-11-2008, 02:43 PM
The first pic is of a Ju-88 moonlighting as Hurricane.

Or it could just be a Spitfire moonlighting as a Hurricane.

Or it could just be a Hurricane.

The simplest way to solve this debate is to just ask the chaps in the picture to step out of the way so we can see the plane behind them.

The.Tyke
12-12-2008, 02:20 AM
Those Mae Wests look a bit tatty, whats the chances of any of them inflating correctly, especially the one far left.

Buzzsaw-
12-13-2008, 04:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The.Tyke:
Those Mae Wests look a bit tatty, whats the chances of any of them inflating correctly, especially the one far left. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fighter pilots in WWII were a superstitious bunch. If they flew 10 missions without harm, and wearing a certain hat, or a certain Mae West, they tended to keep on using that piece of equipment, no matter how worn out or 'tatty' it looked.

And in any case, if you went into the ocean in just about any month except perhaps July and August, you were going to be dead in an hour anyway from the exposure to the water temperature, no matter how well inflated your vest was.