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Jediteo
09-15-2007, 02:30 PM
This might be a repost, but discovered a incredible colour guncam from P51.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=khNM7dt3TdU

These films are run at 1/4 speed right?

Jediteo
09-15-2007, 02:30 PM
This might be a repost, but discovered a incredible colour guncam from P51.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=khNM7dt3TdU

These films are run at 1/4 speed right?

VMF-214_HaVoK
09-15-2007, 02:39 PM
Nice video. As you can see some planes are taking a lot .50 cals and some only need a few before they go down. Same thing happens in the sim as it depends on where your hitting the aircraft.

S!

VMF-214_HaVoK
09-15-2007, 02:41 PM
Ah and those rockets dont fly too straight do they? I believe that most rockets in IL2 are a little too accurate.

S!

Daiichidoku
09-15-2007, 02:42 PM
Oleg, here is the proof, 51s outturn oscars, please fix this right away you bad man


all colour vintage footage rocks!

anyone know if there are any colour combat films with real sound?

VF-17_Jolly
09-15-2007, 02:51 PM
I Like the way the parachute is ignore but the deadly fishermen were strafed. good video, like one long mission with unlimited ammo

SeaFireLIV
09-15-2007, 02:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
Nice video. As you can see some planes are taking a lot .50 cals and some only need a few before they go down. Same thing happens in the sim as it depends on where your hitting the aircraft.

S! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Precisely. This is one of the things I love about IL2. No 2 same plane goes down exactly the same because every plane might get hit somewhere different. It`s a joy dogfighting just because of this! Some have complained about some planes not instantly going down every time in IL2, but this is exactly why! I also agree about the rockets.

The strafing shots were the most interesting. I notice how the pilot had time to `trace` his shots around a bit on the area, as if finding a good target to destroy, then again it could be the shake and turbulence causing that...

Haigotron
09-15-2007, 02:57 PM
Did you see those ricochets? off the locomotives and boats? real cool!
a really nice video. Those fisherman running must have been scared ****less!!

zardozid
09-15-2007, 02:58 PM
When you watch this color "gun cam" footage you realize whats missing from the Kyushu map..."rice patties".

DKoor
09-15-2007, 03:32 PM
Sink the youtube spammers with thumb down.

Nice vid BTW.

WN_Barbarossa
09-15-2007, 04:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daiichidoku:

anyone know if there are any colour combat films with real sound? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Guncams didn't record sound at all.
A combat vid with sound, well, AFAIK sometimes bombers took camera crews to the frontline.

JG4_Helofly
09-15-2007, 04:11 PM
Wow http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif One of the best gun cam film I have ever seen. And this again show us that the 50cal do not cause heavy structural dammage to enemy planes. Only things like fuel and other inflammable substances seem to be affected by the hits.
Also very impressive are the tracer bullets which are deflected away when the p51 attacks the train. If I remember correctly this will be implanted in bob.

f.ip2
09-15-2007, 04:13 PM
interesting shots specifically showing how wide the gun was spreading.

sometimes they went in circles or snake lines.
guess that reflects quite nice the shaking of the planes in Il2 as well.


however shooting factories with .50 ??? ah well ...


here is another good one:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=La3qJ4sptuE&mode=related&search=\ (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=La3qJ4sptuE&mode=related&search=%5C)
notice how few they hit the bombers


this one is a cut and past of few clips but with some good footage
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1Gwv8r4k1KU&mode=related&search=

Bearcat99
09-15-2007, 04:13 PM
Correct.. all the sound was added later.... as were some of those close up shots of the pilot in the pit.

Daiichidoku
09-15-2007, 04:15 PM
i beleive the bullets weavign about, and doing circles etc has a LOT more to do with the pilot using rudder to skid, and spray more, actually, to spread the mayhem, NOT reflecting the in-game "wobble" of msot US types

ImMoreBetter
09-15-2007, 04:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Haigotron:
Did you see those ricochets? off the locomotives and boats? real cool!
a really nice video. Those fisherman running must have been scared ****less!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most of those ricochets where probably AA.

VMF-214_HaVoK
09-15-2007, 04:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And this again show us that the 50cal do not cause heavy structural dammage to enemy planes. Only things like fuel and other inflammable substances seem to be affected by the hits. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well as I said in another thread...people will see what they want to see. LOL, never ceases to amaze me.

MB_Avro_UK
09-15-2007, 04:23 PM
Thanks for posting http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Those clips were new to me. Interesting to see the wide 'spread' of hits from the 50s on the Japanese aircraft and the extensive damage caused.

The tumble of spent cartridges was so like il2 !!

Also, flying low level over the Japanese mainland would have huge risks for the pilot. Forced landings or bail-outs may not have met with a sympathetic reception from the locals.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

berg417448
09-15-2007, 04:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by f.ip2:


here is another good one:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=La3qJ4sptuE&mode=related&search=\ (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=La3qJ4sptuE&mode=related&search=%5C)
notice how few they hit the bombers
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Notice too the complete lack of sniper rear gunners in that video!

Choctaw111
09-15-2007, 04:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImMoreBetter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Haigotron:
Did you see those ricochets? off the locomotives and boats? real cool!
a really nice video. Those fisherman running must have been scared ****less!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most of those ricochets where probably AA. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. When I was a kid I used to think that. Then when I was in the Army I did a lot of shooting in the infantry and realized that bullets really do bounce off of ANYTHING and that all of those bullets flying up in the air from those guncam films I watched as a boy were actually the bullets bouncing back up from the pilots own gunfire. Sure, some of them may be AA but most of them will be ricochets from the pilots' own guns. I heard of one pilot who actually shot himself down this way. I don't know if that is true or not.

f.ip2
09-15-2007, 04:58 PM
i noticed that with many gun cam movies
that when they attack bombers they never
shoot.

some of the US bombers seem not even to
move the gun turrets at all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

well thats odd.


talking about attack boats with .50 check
this one, just from a stucka.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cU6OK1zSxKg&mode=related&search=

f.ip2
09-15-2007, 05:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Daiichidoku </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


thats true and what I meant was I see the same when I play.

mortoma
09-15-2007, 05:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG4_Helofly:
Wow http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif One of the best gun cam film I have ever seen. And this again show us that the 50cal do not cause heavy structural dammage to enemy planes. Only things like fuel and other inflammable substances seem to be affected by the hits.
Also very impressive are the tracer bullets which are deflected away when the p51 attacks the train. If I remember correctly this will be implanted in bob. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok, then if the .50 is so harmless, maybe you will volunteer to go up in an aircraft ( any type ) and let somebody in a WWII fighter equipped with .50s shoot at you???

Here we go with the ".50 causes little damage" crack smokin' junk again. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

FluffyDucks2
09-15-2007, 05:28 PM
The reason you dont see sniper gunners in LW guncam is because they are already dead or injured.
The LW guys (especially in 110s) targeted the rear gunners first, then finished off the aircraft....usually what you see is a bomber that has been separated from the box which the LW pilots then finish at their leisure.

SeaFireLIV
09-15-2007, 05:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by f.ip2:
i noticed that with many gun cam movies
that when they attack bombers they never
shoot.

some of the US bombers seem not even to
move the gun turrets at all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

well thats odd.


</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, not so odd. Guncam is only a very small part of the overall combat. some combat cams as far as I know, only switched on when the pilot flicked a switch.

Point is, by the time the pilot has a straight up shot at a bomber`s rear that rear bomber gunner is very likely incapacitated or dead; the pilot will almost certainly know this and go in for the kill knowing he is safe.

there`s a famous one of a german fighter taking at least 5 seconds shooting the heck out of a B17. The B17 rear-gunner does nothing; in fact, the gun just sits away at a slight angle. Some would post the guncam to say that this shows how easy it was to get behind bombers.

Of course, not. Obviously the gunner had been incapacitated earlier.

When viewing guncam, the viewer should not only see the evidence in the footage, but try to think what might have happened before the footage.

VMF-214_HaVoK
09-15-2007, 05:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Well, not so odd. Guncam is only a very small part of the overall combat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes very small. From what most of us has seen its probably close to 2% if not 1.

S!

JG4_Helofly
09-15-2007, 06:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG4_Helofly:
Wow http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif One of the best gun cam film I have ever seen. And this again show us that the 50cal do not cause heavy structural dammage to enemy planes. Only things like fuel and other inflammable substances seem to be affected by the hits.
Also very impressive are the tracer bullets which are deflected away when the p51 attacks the train. If I remember correctly this will be implanted in bob. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok, then if the .50 is so harmless, maybe you will volunteer to go up in an aircraft ( any type ) and let somebody in a WWII fighter equipped with .50s shoot at you???

Here we go with the ".50 causes little damage" crack smokin' junk again. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL! Read befor you reply. Tell my were you can see structural damage caused by the bullets like wings breaking off or something like that.
Like I said: These bullets seem to be efficient against fuel tanks and such things.
And were did I say that the 50 cal is weak? Stop dreaming and start reading.

VMF-214_HaVoK
09-15-2007, 06:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Tell my were you can see structural damage caused by the bullets like wings breaking off or something like that.
Like I said: These bullets seem to be efficient against fuel tanks and such things.
And were did I say that the 50 cal is weak? Stop dreaming and start reading. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In this particular video you see no wings being ripped off but you can find it happen in hundreds of other videos. In this video I see large pieces of the some planes flying off. As I said sometimes it only takes a few to do heavy damage and sometimes it takes a lot. This holds true for all armament used for all nations. But like I said people see and hear what they want to best server their personal agenda which is all too often around here. Obviously you fall into this category. Its where you hit the plane that matters, not so much what you hit it with. US pilots managed to shoot down thousands of aircraft the the Brownings and and a lot did result in explosions or wing shears. Of course if you can kill the pilot none of that really matters. Because you did not see it in this particular video certainly does not mean it never happened and to think so is rather silly.

S!

f.ip2
09-15-2007, 06:51 PM
you can find many cam movies where they do NOT attack boxed out bombers. Quite often also not only the rear turret is not moving but also others as well.

But I would assume that when they attack a swarm the fire shots would be few secs only anyway.

VMF-214_HaVoK
09-15-2007, 07:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by f.ip2:
you can find many cam movies where they do NOT attack boxed out bombers. Quite often also not only the rear turret is not moving but also others as well.

But I would assume that when they attack a swarm the fire shots would be few secs only anyway. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You probably do not see much footage showing a fighter attacking a bomber shooting back because in doing so it will require several seconds and more often then not that particular fighter was probably destroyed.

S!

VonGrantoven
09-16-2007, 08:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Correct.. all the sound was added later.... as were some of those close up shots of the pilot in the pit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What?! You mean they didnt have a combat cameraman on the wing for some of these shots?

(Sorry... couldn't resist.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Von_Rat
09-16-2007, 01:54 PM
its funny that i can see the .50 bullet strikes on those old films alot easier than i can see them in game. most of the time i can barely see if im hitting.

fiftys may not be great for causing structrual damage, but in rl planes had more systems susceptable to damage by fiftys that arent modeled in game. rads for instance.

VMF-214_HaVoK
09-16-2007, 02:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von_Rat:
its funny that i can see the .50 bullet strikes on those old films alot easier than i can see them in game. most of the time i can barely see if im hitting.

fiftys may not be great for causing structrual damage, but in rl planes had more systems susceptable to damage by fiftys that arent modeled in game. rads for instance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

JG4_Helofly
09-19-2007, 08:20 AM
Yes sure, I am a blue fanboy who want the 50cal to be tuned down lol http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
Just for the info. I have nearly no time to play this game so I have no interest in such things.
All I said was that I saw nothing like big structural damage due to the 50cal strikes and IMO these small cal are effectiv against the interior like fuel, pilot, ... .
But of course I must be a red hater because I said that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
This is typical for this forum.

And these explosions you told of are in most cases ammo explosions in the wing for exemple or fuel tanks which are exploding ( particulary in jap planes ).

For the argument that so many pilots shot down enemys with 50 cal I can only say: They did, but pilots used to bail out before the plane lost vital parts like wings. Some hits in an inline water cooled engine would often result in smoke entering the cockpit. A reason for the pilot to bail.
In this game the player will fight till the explosion or the crash. Many times I saw black smoking planes comming after me to shoot me down. That's not realistic.

Xiolablu3
09-19-2007, 08:44 AM
I absolutely agree that more 'strikes' should be seen on the planes from the 50 cal. in the game.

Its easy to see when you are hitting with .303, but 50's dont seem to 'spark' when you hit like you see in the guncams.

Another vote for more visible strikes from 50 cals in SOW series!

TheGhostFiles
09-19-2007, 08:48 AM
Yep, 50 cal tracer smoke would be nice.

BTW-
Some of the original footage is here:

http://theghostfiles.org/GunCameras.html

GF

Lurch1962
09-19-2007, 07:35 PM
In the externals shot from a "chase" plane, note how the muzzle flashes are a mixture of bright candle flame-shaped plumes, and almost invisible, nearly spherical puffballs.

At 03:00 you can see two other P-51s firing guns at ground targets, and the gun smoke might at first glance be taken for damage from hits.

Shortly after the above, two back-to-back sequences captured "lightning" flashes from power line hits (the first was the best).

During the ground strafing sequences, note several instances where off-camera wingmen were firing their tracers into the same targets. In such situations collisions are a real possibility!

The comment someone made earlier regarding the inaccuracy of unguided rocket trajectories was to some degree the result of misinterpretation. In many cases, immediately after firing rockets the pilot will commence a pull-up. This will make the rocket appear to suddenly dip, even if it's flying true.

So many times we see how the pilot will underestimate the gravitational pull on his bullets when opening fire at long range. This is especially evident here in many of the strafing passes on shipping.

--Lurch--

LW_lcarp
09-19-2007, 08:17 PM
Now since most airplane of the day were either aluminum and or wood constrution with fabric covering the control surfaces the firing of 6 and or 8 .50 caliber machine guns would cause major structual damage. Just cause wings didnt come flying off in that video doesnt mean it didnt happen.

And check out the vid below at 1:27, 1:53, 2:24 you with see fusalages setting there wings free. And lets not forget all the other things that the video shows them doing. No structural damage beh!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=53LGJhjYICM

Swivet
09-19-2007, 08:23 PM
Sweeeeeeet http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

VonGrantoven
09-19-2007, 09:32 PM
As far as I know, guncams only engage when the gun is firing.

So that would seem to mean in the shot with the parachute, the 51 driver is strafing the poor bugger who has hit the silk!

berg417448
09-19-2007, 10:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VonGrantoven:
As far as I know, guncams only engage when the gun is firing.

So that would seem to mean in the shot with the parachute, the 51 driver is strafing the poor bugger who has hit the silk! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The gun camera could be activated without firing the weapons. It was a common practice to try to confirm a kill by filming the enemy pilot in his parachute.

Of course, there were some pilots from all air forces who did fire on parachutes.

IFly_1968
09-20-2007, 11:23 AM
Watch the film closely at 4:40. The leading planes look like they are flying through the ricochet bullets from the one that is firing. Looks like they could get shot down themselves.

Nyllet_pjn
09-20-2007, 12:55 PM
When they are shooting at fighters the distance cant be much more than 100 meters. According to me a good setup in the game aswell. It´s strange that the default is 500m after installation...?

In F.ip2:s first video the P-51 hits a friendly that decides to dive into the line of fire. Not the shooters fault if you ask me. Wonder if he hit him?

It also made me sad when I saw them strafing fishermen. Ofcourse, total war is total war but I can´t help thinking what ever those poor guys have done...they spend their entire life fishing, not knowing whats going on in the world and all of the sudden they are running for their lifes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif