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rfxcasey
06-10-2010, 07:00 AM
Have I mentioned how much I love the Hellcat. What an awesome crate. Oh, I know it's not the fastest or the prettiest or the most powerful, but I just love it, I can't really put it into words. You know it's kinda like the girl with average looks who can win you over with her ability to cook the best omelets and give the best, ah hem, back rubs (wink wink). http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif

Anywho, I ws messing around with mustang last night. I believe it was a P-51C-NT. It seemed OK at first but felt kind of heavy in the turns. I put myself up against 2 veteran A6m5c and took one out relatively high about 5k. The second dove for the deck and I while I was able to catch him easily it took me a second to take him out as one my shots were landing but not sealing the deal and 2 the Mustang just handled like a brick.

rfxcasey
06-10-2010, 07:00 AM
Have I mentioned how much I love the Hellcat. What an awesome crate. Oh, I know it's not the fastest or the prettiest or the most powerful, but I just love it, I can't really put it into words. You know it's kinda like the girl with average looks who can win you over with her ability to cook the best omelets and give the best, ah hem, back rubs (wink wink). http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif

Anywho, I ws messing around with mustang last night. I believe it was a P-51C-NT. It seemed OK at first but felt kind of heavy in the turns. I put myself up against 2 veteran A6m5c and took one out relatively high about 5k. The second dove for the deck and I while I was able to catch him easily it took me a second to take him out as one my shots were landing but not sealing the deal and 2 the Mustang just handled like a brick.

TinyTim
06-10-2010, 07:29 AM
You didn't take 100% fuel in the mustang, did you? She handles completely different with her huge tanks full.

thefruitbat
06-10-2010, 07:41 AM
yep, take 25% fuel in the mustang, and shes a different beast.

its very rare that i take more than 50 in a mustang, its got a huge range...

Erkki_M
06-10-2010, 07:49 AM
50% in P-51 is about 70 minutes of flying time at mil power. I take 50 or 75% myself...

thefruitbat
06-10-2010, 07:53 AM
i take 50% as standard, unless i know its going to be a long mission, and in the co-ops we fly, its rare that i'll need more than 50%.

i never take 25% plus drop tanks though like some though, because the rails scrub off some of your top speed, and speed is life in a 51...

rfxcasey
06-10-2010, 08:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Erkki_M:
50% in P-51 is about 70 minutes of flying time at mil power. I take 50 or 75% myself... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, I'm sorry, I don't know what "mil power" is. Could you dumb it down a little for the common folk. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

thefruitbat
06-10-2010, 08:18 AM
military power.

some stuff on the 51 i picked up a while back,

NORMAL:

Take off: 1490HP at 3000rpm (~40"Hg)

(at 13k feet) 1590HP at 3000rpm at 61"Hg

(at 27K feet) 1370HP at 3000rpm-61"Hg

PLANE LIMITS:

Take off Max: 61" at 3000rpm
War Mergency: 67" at 3000rpm
Militray power: 61" at 3000rpm
Max continous: 46" at 2700rpm
Max Cruise: 42" at 2400rpm

OPERATING RANGE:

Manifold Pressure: 29-37"Hg

RPM: 1850-2320

MAX airspeed is 505MPH.

M_Gunz
06-10-2010, 08:29 AM
Military power, IIRC 100% in IL2 as opposed to War Emergency Power, over 100%.

P-51 was not a good low speed turner compared to good low speed turners. P-40 out-turns P-51 historically and
it is not the best low speed turner of the war. OTOH P-51 is very good at high speed and high alt turning by
comparison with many and for a plane with its capabilities it turned very well. Comments from pilots who flew
them have to be taken with the kind of understanding that they are relative to expectations unless attached to
other specific data.

Just find out what the IL2 model can do and don't push it, it's a wonderful plane when flown properly same as
most other models in IL2. Find the strengths and you should start seeing how many quotes actually did apply.
Whatever you do, forget the anecdotes based on encounters with unknown enemy pilots and less conditions stated
than not which is the freaking majority presented here as 'proof' of some treasured idea or History Channel Fact.

thefruitbat
06-10-2010, 08:52 AM
its actually 99%, as soon as you hit 100, you go to wep and the manifold pressure jumps up from 61"Hg to 67"Hg.

just did a quick test, and to fly at military power at the alt i was at, had to fly 99% power to give 61"Hg, and drop the pitch to 95% to lower the rpm to 3000rpm,

you can fly with rads closed at these settings, all day long, and keep 550kph on the deck, which is a nice fast cruise speed.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/1006201014-43-41-1.jpg

M2morris
06-10-2010, 10:28 AM
Back to fuel, I don't think its modeled in this sim but I remember reading that from the B Models the mustangs were fitted with an 85 gal fuel tank behind the pilot's seat to increase range and this tank was dangerously close to the aft COG limits so maneuvers were limited until that tank was down to 25 gallons I think. It would be interesting to be able to switch tanks and choose which ones to use first. I've never bothered to see if thats possible in IL2.

TinyTim
06-10-2010, 11:24 AM
I don't have a clue about how IL-2 engine works, but it appears that loadouts do affect the centre of gravity. Take for example a Yak-9B and fill her up with 192 PTAB bomblets. The plane has internal bomb bay behind pilots seat (that's behind the COG), and when full of bombs plane is extremely, er,... challenging to fly. Taxiing and takeoff looks like the pilot is dead drunk.

I don't know if fuel weight does affect COG or not, but loadouts certainly do.

horseback
06-10-2010, 02:40 PM
There has been much debate on the subject of how COG is modelled in the game, but the general consensus is that it doesn't move with fuel consumption. The game engine was originally designed with a few single engine Eastern Front aircraft in mind, and most if not all of the major players had a single major fuel tank in the fuselage.

As was consitant with most designs of the time, those fuel tanks were placed so as to have minimal effect on COG as the fuel was consumed.

The Mustang was a late addition to the series, and many of us suspect that the modelled COG is a compromise between the ideal location achieved with the rear tank near empty (the way the plane was originally designed to fly and fight and the way it normally would be by the time the aircraft arrived in 'Injun Country') and where it would be with it nearly full (and dangerously unstable for hard maneuvering).

Like most compromises, nobody is fully satisfied with it.

As for rfxcasey's opinion, the Mustang should feel heavier and less responsive than the F6F. It was designed to be at its best at high speeds and it was further optimized for high altitudes. The Hellcat was designed to provide an aircraft that was nimble and predictable at all speeds, and optimized for medium altitude performance.

If anything, the Hellcat in game should be a lot more nimble and maneuverable than it it is, particularly the -5 models, which all Naval aviators of the time agreed was a considerable improvement over the -3.

rfx, if you are truly a Hellcat fan, you'll want to find Barrett Tillman's Hellcat: The F6F in WWII, originally published by the Naval Institute Press in 1979. It is the definitive history of the Hellcat, and a helluva read.

cheers

horseback

Ba5tard5word
06-10-2010, 02:49 PM
I've never really liked the Hellcat in Il-2 a whole lot. It feels rather heavy and its top speed at sea level seems to be around 480-490kph which seems rather low. It's ok fighting against Zeros though. Also the AI for Hellcats seems really poor (as with several other US pacific planes) which makes flying offline in a flight of them problematic because your wingmen will be stupid and get shot down and you'll have four angry Zeros buzzing around your *** pretty soon.

The Wildcat on the other hand I like quite a bit, it keeps up with the Zero very well and feels light and nimbler than its reputation would have me believe. I like the Buffalo even more (at least against anything that makes 440kph max or less at sea level). AI for the Wildcat and Buffalo seem a lot more competent which makes flying with AI wingmen much less useless.

R_Target
06-10-2010, 03:35 PM
You guys should try the UP 2.01 Hellcats. Not much different from stock, but WEP speeds are historically accurate. Three years ago I supplied 1C:MG with data, nothing happened.

http://i48.tinypic.com/2qks7s5.gif

TinyTim
06-10-2010, 03:51 PM
One thing I never really could swallow with the Hellcat is the damn wobbling. For me it feels rather like a 1:48 scale model being hung down a couple of very elastic strings rather than a 6 ton pile of steel. And corsair is no better.

Whenever I try to do the last time corrections to deflection shooting either by kicking a bit of rudder or an elevator, the nose starts wobbling, with me spraying bullets all around, hitting every corner of the skies apart from my target. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

Interesting R_Target, thanks for pointing that out. Good to see new Hellcats closer to historical values. Another thing maybe worth pointing out is that the new Hellcats have ammo loadouts corrected - historically they should have 400 rounds per every gun, while stock ones have 400 rpg only for the inner two with 270 or so for the outter 4. New ones that came with UP have this corrected. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

(2000, yay!)

Ba5tard5word
06-10-2010, 04:10 PM
Still Il2Compare seems to be saying the stock F6F top speed at sea level should be around 515kph at sea level, but again I can't seem to get it over 490...weird.

TinyTim
06-10-2010, 04:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
Still Il2Compare seems to be saying the stock F6F top speed at sea level should be around 515kph at sea level, but again I can't seem to get it over 490...weird. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've tested it a couple of days ago and got it to 520kph (Crimea, noon, 100% fuel, default loadout, rads closed, no pitch fiddling, never climbed above 10m). It takes time tho.

http://www.shrani.si/f/1q/YY/1AGvETYb/1.jpg

thefruitbat
06-10-2010, 05:00 PM
it will be slightly quicker on crimea, il2 data is worked out for smolensk, and is generally about 5kph slower than crimea, so TinyTims speed fits pretty much perfect http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

the UP hellcats rock, really like flying them, and the new 50's loadout destroys Japanese planes!!

M_Gunz
06-10-2010, 05:49 PM
Maddox Games has good reason not to go changing the Hellcat or any model made by the company that designed Hellcat.

Don't blame Oleg for this.

R_Target
06-10-2010, 06:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Maddox Games has good reason not to go changing the Hellcat or any model made by the company that designed Hellcat.

Don't blame Oleg for this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I doubt it. If it was so, it seems they would've excluded the F4F/F6F/TBF from IL2 1946, which came about about two years after the NG screwup.

idonno
06-10-2010, 07:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TinyTim:
You didn't take 100% fuel in the mustang, did you? She handles completely different with her huge tanks full. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only time I fly with less than 100% fuel is when I can't get into the air with that much, which is quite rare. There have been a number of times when that extra fuel has gotten me home after my plane has mysteriously developed a fuel leak. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

I once ran a -51 dry. It took more than 2 hours of flying involving several fights and a few kills.

TinyTim
06-10-2010, 07:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by idonno:
There have been a number of times when that extra fuel has gotten me home after my plane has mysteriously developed a fuel leak. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point, but maybe those fuel leaks wouldn't "develop" if you hadn't been hauling all that dead weight with you in first place. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

M_Gunz
06-10-2010, 11:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by R_Target:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Maddox Games has good reason not to go changing the Hellcat or any model made by the company that designed Hellcat.

Don't blame Oleg for this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I doubt it. If it was so, it seems they would've excluded the F4F/F6F/TBF from IL2 1946, which came about about two years after the NG screwup. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why throw out what you've already been forced to pay extra for?

rfxcasey
06-11-2010, 06:52 AM
I've spent a good amount of time in several planes. The majority of time though is split between the Wildcats, Hellcats, and F4Us. I guess I have just developed a good feel for it. Even with it's limitations and AI problems I've gotten to know it's characteristic pretty well and feel very comfortable and confident flying it. It's toughness has saved my butt a few times too. I find it to be tough, predictable and quite a nibble and capable fighter. Not to mention I love carrier ops.

R_Target
06-11-2010, 11:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Why throw out what you've already been forced to pay extra for? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it's "paid for", then there shouldn't be a problem fixing it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

M_Gunz
06-11-2010, 02:19 PM
I wouldn't be so sure just how that deal went down. I wasn't there, only read about it.

M2morris
06-11-2010, 03:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rfxcasey:
I've spent a good amount of time in several planes. The majority of time though is split between the Wildcats, Hellcats, and F4Us. I guess I have just developed a good feel for it. Even with it's limitations and AI problems I've gotten to know it's characteristic pretty well and feel very comfortable and confident flying it. It's toughness has saved my butt a few times too. I find it to be tough, predictable and quite a nibble and capable fighter. Not to mention I love carrier ops. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well then you should like this. I did this about an hour ago:

<span class="flash-video"><object codebase="http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=8,0,0,0"
classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000"
height="385"
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><param name="wmode"
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value="never"
></param><param value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VgrUZmq6Mnw&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1&amp;"
name="movie"
/><param value="true"
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/><embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash"
pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer"
wmode="transparent"
allowScriptAccess="never"
height="385"
width="480"
src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VgrUZmq6Mnw&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1&amp;"
/></object></span>

major_setback
06-11-2010, 04:27 PM
Yes, my love is blind and dumb...
...but whenever I tell them that they always get angry!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

R_Target
06-11-2010, 05:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
I wouldn't be so sure just how that deal went down. I wasn't there, only read about it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It hasn't stopped anybody from speculating though. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Really, Roy Grumman would be turning over in his grave if he knew what they've done to his name.

At any rate, I sent OM the data, and was informed that it had arrived "too late for 4.08", and that was the last I ever heard of it.

M_Gunz
06-11-2010, 09:17 PM
Grumman sure made some good canoes. I can attest to that!

R_Target
06-11-2010, 10:36 PM
They got their start making pontoons for Navy planes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

rfxcasey
06-11-2010, 10:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M2morris:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by rfxcasey:
I've spent a good amount of time in several planes. The majority of time though is split between the Wildcats, Hellcats, and F4Us. I guess I have just developed a good feel for it. Even with it's limitations and AI problems I've gotten to know it's characteristic pretty well and feel very comfortable and confident flying it. It's toughness has saved my butt a few times too. I find it to be tough, predictable and quite a nibble and capable fighter. Not to mention I love carrier ops. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well then you should like this. I did this about an hour ago:


Ha! I can't believe you need the arrester hook. I can land on that ***** all day without one. Next time show me something worth a crap.

LEBillfish
06-12-2010, 12:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rfxcasey:
Ha! I can't believe you need the arrester hook. I can land on that ***** all day without one. Next time show me something worth a crap. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Boy......I don't know what your deal is yet you need to sort it out. Someone takes the time to be generous to a topic of your preference and you suddenly want to sound tough or cool.

No one is impressed. Time to man up, or boy elsewhere. Better yet stop the banter and prove your game talk with a bit of walk on HL.

K2

ElAurens
06-12-2010, 12:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by R_Target:

At any rate, I sent OM the data, and was informed that it had arrived "too late for 4.08", and that was the last I ever heard of it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you sent it to DT? I believe that they would be far more effective in making changes now.

ElAurens
06-12-2010, 12:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rfxcasey:

Ha! I can't believe you need the arrester hook. I can land on that ***** all day without one. Next time show me something worth a crap. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did mummy not give you your bottle this morning?

Trash talk won't get you far in life son.

M_Gunz
06-12-2010, 01:30 PM
Looks like the UBI censor is down along with the login.
Here's a try: Hans Joachim Marseille

DKoor
06-12-2010, 02:40 PM
Hm.
F6F Hellcat is my fav Pacific War Theater aircraft along with P-38. Now that I'm thinking of it, I can't seem to remember flying ANYTHING else than these two crates on Pacific online on both Japanese and American sidehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Yes, the F6F has something about it I don't know what but it does the trick for me.

Well... if you feels like it, take a look at this track it is well worth to see just how much a man can expect from his warbird, special attention to the part where I get myself into troublehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif;

http://www.esnips.com/doc/389f...orf6f5_2a6m3_zvw_408 (http://www.esnips.com/doc/389f1a2e-db6d-41a8-8f1c-e4bc7c9acb4e/dkoorf6f5_2a6m3_zvw_408)

rfxcasey
06-12-2010, 02:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rfxcasey:
Ha! I can't believe you need the arrester hook. I can land on that ***** all day without one. Next time show me something worth a crap. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Boy......I don't know what your deal is yet you need to sort it out. Someone takes the time to be generous to a topic of your preference and you suddenly want to sound tough or cool.

No one is impressed. Time to man up, or boy elsewhere. Better yet stop the banter and prove your game talk with a bit of walk on HL.

K2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look, all I am saying is your the one who decided everyone wanted to see you show off your flying skills. Just seems a little self glorifying to me. Your post had little if anything to do with the subject matter. No offense meant thought I am sure some was taken.

M_Gunz
06-12-2010, 04:13 PM
Gad... at the start I was saying 'hey, another former RB player! awright!'. But lately....

M2morris posted the video. BF just thinks you may have a personal problem. After your earlier comments on how to fly
Japanese planes, even before the latest gratuitous slice you posted, I agree. Morris was in no way trying to disrespect
you. In fact he was in friendly and helpful mode which it is clear you do not appreciate at all. It may be fun to see who
bothers being decent to you in the near future but maybe you can learn. Stranger things have happened here.

Hope that's plain enough to not be misinterpreted. Hope you can keep straight that BF did not post this.

major_setback
06-12-2010, 04:38 PM
I was in love a long time ago; it looked so much better in old CFS2:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/Hellcat002gam01.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/Hellcat001gam01.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/050829bgam01.jpg

DKoor
06-12-2010, 04:40 PM
Yeah... it is sleeker in CFS2 in IL-2 it is quite chubby http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.