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jetguy06
06-10-2006, 12:17 PM
I'm flying the Bf-109F-2 in the Lvov campaign(I'm over Smolensk now), but I'm having a little trouble with I-16's and I-153's.I can do relatively ok when I'm on their tail, but when they drop in on mine, I just can't shake them.Losses right now are getting high, and my unit only has 9 operational planes left.I'm not the c/o or anything...I'm only a lowly leutnant, and am costantly flying in the #4 slot, but I can shoot I-16's and such off of #3 without a problem.When they get on my tail, #3 turns in to help, but I know that I need to pull some kind of maneuvers to keep the enemy plane occupied and keep his shots missing until #3 gets there.Any idea of what maneuvers are the best for a '109 with an I-16/153 on his tail?Thanks to all.

jetguy06
06-10-2006, 12:17 PM
I'm flying the Bf-109F-2 in the Lvov campaign(I'm over Smolensk now), but I'm having a little trouble with I-16's and I-153's.I can do relatively ok when I'm on their tail, but when they drop in on mine, I just can't shake them.Losses right now are getting high, and my unit only has 9 operational planes left.I'm not the c/o or anything...I'm only a lowly leutnant, and am costantly flying in the #4 slot, but I can shoot I-16's and such off of #3 without a problem.When they get on my tail, #3 turns in to help, but I know that I need to pull some kind of maneuvers to keep the enemy plane occupied and keep his shots missing until #3 gets there.Any idea of what maneuvers are the best for a '109 with an I-16/153 on his tail?Thanks to all.

quasimodo_3
06-10-2006, 12:23 PM
don't turn with 'em, can't do it. Passing shots and then target someone else - you've got the speed advantage.

Xiolablu3
06-10-2006, 01:30 PM
Just point your nose down a bit and extend. They cannot catch you.


Extend/Climb/B&Z

Rinse and Repeat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

horseback
06-10-2006, 01:36 PM
Just finished the first leg of that campaign myself. As long as you follow the rules, you should be okay.

Keep Your Speed Up: you have LOTS more than they do; use it to hit and come back and hit'em again. Slowing down to stay on his six is a Bad Idea because he has better acceleration and turn than you do. Strike, roll or climb away, maintaining your E advantage, and then decide whether another burst is worth the effort.

Spiral Climbs: ai don't do much leading when they shoot at a climbing and turning opponent. The 109F can outclimb the I-16 and I-153 if the climb is fast and not too steep. Even so, keep looking over your shoulder for that Ace who can't hit what's right in front of him, but can nail that impossible high-deflection shot every time.

Don't get greedy: lots of targets is good; lots of people shooting at you is BAD. See Keeping Your Speed Up, above.

Stay High: most of the time, the opposition is starting out with a height disadvantage. Don't let them get above you for more time than it takes to frame them in your sights and pull the trigger. Most of the time, your game will be vertical, while they play best in the horizontal. Make 'em play YOUR game.

Avoid Headon Passes: especially when you're outlined against the clear blue sky and he's masked by the ground. AI are pretty good shots and quick on the draw in that situation. You don't need that.

Stay Away From AAA: Avoid airfields, trains, or any other area with AAA unless you have some help soaking it up; when it can't be avoided, do NOT fly in a straight line or slowly climb. Get fast and jink around until you've gotten the hell outa Dodge.

A note here: the 4.04/4.05 patch versions of AI are ludicrously over-advantaged in my opinion and that of many other veteran off-liners. It may well be that the AI I-16s and I-153s have been miraculously given better speed and climb than your 109F-2. I back-patched a copy of the game to 4.01 for campaign play in order to maintain my remaining limited supply of sanity (pray for me-I have a long commute to work in Southern California).

cheers

horseback

jetguy06
06-22-2006, 03:18 PM
I just wanted to say thanks for the advice.My main tactic now is to start high, dive on the enemy, fire, climb, and repeat.I'm now an Oberleutnant with 16 kills(6 I-16's, 1 I-153, 2 SB-2's, 3 Su-2's, 2 LaGG-3's, and 2 MiG-3's), 23 sorties, and 3 medals.The tactic of diving on the enemy reminds me of General Chennault(sp?)teaching his cadets how to fight the Japanese.What I don't get, though, is how can the P-40 climb away from the zero's to make another pass, when the zero's climbed so much better?Anyway, thanks.

tigertalon
06-22-2006, 03:48 PM
Simple. Don't let them get to your tail.

Truly, once they are there, you gonna have a lot of trouble, prevention is better than cure.

However, if it happens, at the beginning, like xiola pointed out, nose down and RUN your arse off towards your base.

tigertalon
06-22-2006, 03:51 PM
Ah, saw your second post now.

Well, the trick was to always start higher than zeros, this way you build up your speed when diving and zeros are unable to follow you when you zoom by and climb.

If they started equal level, P-40s dived and if zero pilot was not experienced, he followed. P-40 has much better dive and a bit better speed, so he outdistanced pursuing Zero, and after that P-40 started a shallow climb and left zeros in the dust.

horseback
06-23-2006, 08:59 AM
Best description for those tactics is pendulum; you use superior altitude to gain energy/speed in the dive, and then use the extra energy/speed to gain altitude. Make the climbs after the dives a bit more shallow than the dives, and you'll be able to finish the climb more easily.

The 109F is a good bit better in the climb than the P-40, but the same principles apply. Against the Zero or Oscar, the RL P-40 had a top speed advantage in the horizontal, and at sustainedspeeds over 250mph indicated, it could turn tighter in the horizontal plane as well, because the stick forces for the Japanese pilot got too high at those speeds.

cheers

horseback