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DragynfyreX
04-03-2011, 07:03 PM
Alright so I've played the multiplayer for about 10-12 hours now (mostly Wanted) and I have to say that poison gives way too many points when it isn't due. There are many times when someone approaches me in a very non subtle manner and I see the B symbol flash above their heads. Usually if they don't kill me outright I know they've poisoned me but I can't do anything about it and 5 seconds later they get like 900-1100 points (obscene!). I think they should change it so that when you know someone has poisoned you then you can go behind them and stun them. That way only the poisoners who are actually subtle will get their points.

DragynfyreX
04-03-2011, 07:03 PM
Alright so I've played the multiplayer for about 10-12 hours now (mostly Wanted) and I have to say that poison gives way too many points when it isn't due. There are many times when someone approaches me in a very non subtle manner and I see the B symbol flash above their heads. Usually if they don't kill me outright I know they've poisoned me but I can't do anything about it and 5 seconds later they get like 900-1100 points (obscene!). I think they should change it so that when you know someone has poisoned you then you can go behind them and stun them. That way only the poisoners who are actually subtle will get their points.

Blind2Society
04-03-2011, 07:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dragynfyre0:
Alright so I've played the multiplayer for about 10-12 hours now (mostly Wanted) and I have to say that poison gives way too many points when it isn't due. There are many times when someone approaches me in a very non subtle manner and I see the B symbol flash above their heads. Usually if they don't kill me outright I know they've poisoned me but I can't do anything about it and 5 seconds later they get like 900-1100 points (obscene!). I think they should change it so that when you know someone has poisoned you then you can go behind them and stun them. That way only the poisoners who are actually subtle will get their points. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry but I don't see this thread going anywhere as topics such as these have been argued to death. However, I will say that one can get a lot more points than 1100 with poison. I have gotten 2500 myself, and that is probably a little bit much as the only way to get that amount of points in one kill is using poison.

Edit: To rephrase my point. I do not think it is OP, however, the number of points recieved for using it may be a bit too much. Maybe not though if there were more ways to get such a large amount of points.

Sprint-Please
04-03-2011, 07:30 PM
If someone approaches you obviously and you still got poisoned, they deserve the extra 300 points.

gothpunkboy89
04-03-2011, 07:31 PM
Poison by it self is a balanced item.

its when i starts to become combined with smoke. or x2 bonus or smoke and x2 bonus it becomes OPed. that is it.

and sadly more and more players are using smoke poison combo because they suck at using it any other way.

CrazyShrapnel
04-03-2011, 07:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dragynfyre0:
Alright so I've played the multiplayer for about 10-12 hours now </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most of us find the game perfectly balanced at lvl 50, aside from a few skills. Poison on it's own is rarely discussed. People can actually be stunned while administering poison by the way, it's caused by small amounts of lag or just plain reflexes. Also: long cooldown, tiny use range (Sometimes you can be rubbing shoulders and not land it due to lag), can be intercepted (You get 50 points instead of the kill), etc, etc. It may annoy you now but it'll get better as you play more. And if you still think it's OP at level 29 you can start using it yourself! Land some 900 point kills of your own.

Blind2Society
04-03-2011, 07:35 PM
I would like more abilities other than just poison that allow a player to get massive amounts of points. it's just lame that poison is the only one.

DragynfyreX
04-03-2011, 07:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sprint-Please:
If someone approaches you obviously and you still got poisoned, they deserve the extra 300 points. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Okay let me rephrase my first post. If a guy approaches you head on enough for the stun symbol to appear above their heads then they should still be stunnable after they walk by. They deserve maybe 500-600 points for the hidden kill but not the 900 points for the poison. It's just frustrating when I'm getting 500-600 points with hidden kills after tailing my target for a minute while some higher level person can just walk up and get an easy 900.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CrazyShrapnel:

Most of us find the game perfectly balanced at lvl 50, aside from a few skills. Poison on it's own is rarely discussed. People can actually be stunned while administering poison by the way, it's caused by small amounts of lag or just plain reflexes. Also: long cooldown, tiny use range (Sometimes you can be rubbing shoulders and not land it due to lag), can be intercepted (You get 50 points instead of the kill), etc, etc. It may annoy you now but it'll get better as you play more. And if you still think it's OP at level 29 you can start using it yourself! Land some 900 point kills of your own. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course it's balanced at level 50 because everyone has access to it. Problem is it only becomes available at level 29 and that takes about 15-20 hours to get to. Also I've been poisoned multiple times and I've never been intercepted. 5-6 seconds is simply too short of a time unless your second or third pursuer is with visual range. Only being able to stun when the other pursuer is administering poison is not good enough. You'd need to have lightning reflexes or your hand over the stun button already to pull it off.

gothpunkboy89
04-03-2011, 07:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blind2Society:
I would like more abilities other than just poison that allow a player to get massive amounts of points. it's just lame that poison is the only one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

its the smoke poison that is what makes it unfair. i'd be more then happy if they made it were if you smoke then poison someone you don't get the bonus points for it.

or at least remove the ability to get a focus kill while target is smoked.

i'd prefer the first one but will take the second one

CrazyShrapnel
04-03-2011, 08:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dragynfyre0:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sprint-Please:
If someone approaches you obviously and you still got poisoned, they deserve the extra 300 points. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Okay let me rephrase my first post. If a guy approaches you head on enough for the stun symbol to appear above their heads then they should still be stunnable after they walk by. They deserve maybe 500-600 points for the hidden kill but not the 900 points for the poison. It's just frustrating when I'm getting 500-600 points with hidden kills after tailing my target for a minute while some higher level person can just walk up and get an easy 900.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CrazyShrapnel:

Most of us find the game perfectly balanced at lvl 50, aside from a few skills. Poison on it's own is rarely discussed. People can actually be stunned while administering poison by the way, it's caused by small amounts of lag or just plain reflexes. Also: long cooldown, tiny use range (Sometimes you can be rubbing shoulders and not land it due to lag), can be intercepted (You get 50 points instead of the kill), etc, etc. It may annoy you now but it'll get better as you play more. And if you still think it's OP at level 29 you can start using it yourself! Land some 900 point kills of your own. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course it's balanced at level 50 because everyone has access to it. Problem is it only becomes available at level 29 and that takes about 15-20 hours to get to. Also I've been poisoned multiple times and I've never been intercepted. 5-6 seconds is simply too short of a time unless your second or third pursuer is with visual range. Only being able to stun when the other pursuer is administering poison is not good enough. You'd need to have lightning reflexes or your hand over the stun button already to pull it off. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you know you've been poisoned then run around a bit. You may be killed by someone else. It's a tactic I and many others use. And you don't have to be level 50 to do it. It doesn't work all the time, few things do.

And if you see someone nearby who you know is going to kill you... why let them? Poison range is much smaller than the normal kill range. Infact I'd say stun range is bigger (though that may just be lag messing with my view of ingame events). They could kill you from a step or two away just from pressing kill. But they don't. They kill you with poison. Why are you letting that happen? Run. Make them chase you and escape them. Hide around a corner and stun them as they walk round. Hang around a lookalike. It'll be even easier to defend yourself once you have smokebomb. Don't let them poison you.

The basis of your complaint seems to be that high levels get high points. Ofcourse they do. They've played for longer, know various tips and tricks and have unlocked shiny new skills. New players aren't meant to go up against high levels regularly, matchmaking (usually) tries to match people with others of a similar level/rank. So yes poison is overpowered to you. Because you're underpowered. Once you start unlocking the same things everyone else has, you'll see things similarly.

Blind2Society
04-03-2011, 08:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gothpunkboy89:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blind2Society:
I would like more abilities other than just poison that allow a player to get massive amounts of points. it's just lame that poison is the only one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

its the smoke poison that is what makes it unfair. i'd be more then happy if they made it were if you smoke then poison someone you don't get the bonus points for it.

or at least remove the ability to get a focus kill while target is smoked.

i'd prefer the first one but will take the second one </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The problem I have with smoke+poison is that they don't loose all there stealth bonuses. I'm a firm believer that throwing a smoke bomb in front of your target is, in no way, stealthy. This applies to all situations where smoke is used offensively not just with poison.

gothpunkboy89
04-03-2011, 08:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blind2Society:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gothpunkboy89:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blind2Society:
I would like more abilities other than just poison that allow a player to get massive amounts of points. it's just lame that poison is the only one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

its the smoke poison that is what makes it unfair. i'd be more then happy if they made it were if you smoke then poison someone you don't get the bonus points for it.

or at least remove the ability to get a focus kill while target is smoked.

i'd prefer the first one but will take the second one </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The problem I have with smoke+poison is that they don't loose all there stealth bonuses. I'm a firm believer that throwing a smoke bomb in front of your target is, in no way, stealthy. This applies to all situations where smoke is used offensively not just with poison. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i do agree with you there. me personally think discreet would be highest stealth bonus when combined but I'll take silent. you should never get an incognito kill when using smoke at the very least.

obliviondoll
04-03-2011, 08:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dragynfyre0:
Okay let me rephrase my first post. If a guy approaches you head on enough for the stun symbol to appear above their heads then they should still be stunnable after they walk by. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
They ARE still stunnable as they're Poisoning you.

If the first you know about them is the stun prompt, and you hit the button JUST in time, you'll still get the stun. If you're not fast enough then, you missed your chance, and they outplayed you.

In that case, you didn't see them coming, you didn't do anything about it in time once you noticed, and you died horribly because of it.

If you're caught out by a guy walking straight into you, then you deserve to be giving away those points.

And for reference - 900 points off a Poison is usually Hidden/Incognito (600) with Slow Acting Poison - which gives them 6.5 seconds of risk that you're going to be intercepted. 1100 is usually adding Variety to the mix, which makes the points well-deserved.

If you're good at spotting players, you SHOULD be able to stun your Poisoner more often than not.

Smoke/Poison seems unbalanced when you ignore that a single Smoke Bomb from your target means that you burned through both your abilities for a 50/50 chance at getting the poison without being stunned. And if the person doing it hasn't picked you out and was counting on being able to use gentle push to pick you out, then there's a chance they won't have seen your throw animation and will give you a Lure or a stun without Poisoning you. Then there are the times you get away with a Lure AND Stun - 300 points for wasting both your pursuer's abilities.

And yes, the examples I've given above are ones I've seen in-game.

Also, there have been threads about this, and there have been threads about the more legitimate argument of Smoke + Poison (which I also disagree with, but it has more grounds than Poison alone). They don't get a positive reception, because with experience, you WILL be able to counter it more effectively, and then it won't seem OP any more.

Trenixdecease
04-03-2011, 08:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blind2Society:
The problem I have with smoke+poison is that they don't loose all there stealth bonuses. I'm a firm believer that throwing a smoke bomb in front of your target is, in no way, stealthy. This applies to all situations where smoke is used offensively not just with poison. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In order to use poison, you're not allowed to have a high profile. Making a smoke bomb give high profile, just may fix this.

DragynfyreX
04-03-2011, 08:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CrazyShrapnel:
And if you see someone nearby who you know is going to kill you... why let them? Poison range is much smaller than the normal kill range. Infact I'd say stun range is bigger (though that may just be lag messing with my view of ingame events). They could kill you from a step or two away just from pressing kill. But they don't. They kill you with poison. Why are you letting that happen? Run. Make them chase you and escape them. Hide around a corner and stun them as they walk round. Hang around a lookalike. It'll be even easier to defend yourself once you have smokebomb. Don't let them poison you.

The basis of your complaint seems to be that high levels get high points. Ofcourse they do. They've played for longer, know various tips and tricks and have unlocked shiny new skills. New players aren't meant to go up against high levels regularly, matchmaking (usually) tries to match people with others of a similar level/rank. So yes poison is overpowered to you. Because you're underpowered. Once you start unlocking the same things everyone else has, you'll see things similarly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Problem is many times that I get poisoned is when I've morphed the crowd around me and have waited for about a minute or 2 for pursuer to try and assassinate me and either get a lure bonus or stun them so I don't run. Sure if they get lucky and choose the right persona then they deserve points for a kill but I don't believe they deserve the extra 300 points for a poison when they approach from a bad angle and allow me to see that they are my pursuer with the the stun button flashing over their heads. I should be allowed to stun them if I know that they are my pursuer. It's very frustrating just running circles around your pursuer while you die.

Also I play on the PC and the community is smaller so I often play with at least 1 or 2 high level people (by high level I mean 35+ judging from the personas they use. I'm level 25 btw).

EDIT: Also I'd just like to say that Poison wouldn't be so bad if it was available at a lower level like smoke bomb.

CrazyShrapnel
04-03-2011, 09:07 PM
I'd be interested to hear your opinion on poison once you get to use it yourself. Only 4 more levels to go! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

obliviondoll
04-03-2011, 09:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dragynfyre0:
Problem is many times that I get poisoned is when I've morphed the crowd around me and have waited for about a minute or 2 for pursuer to try and assassinate me and either get a lure bonus or stun them so I don't run. Sure if they get lucky and choose the right persona then they deserve points for a kill but I don't believe they deserve the extra 300 points for a poison when they approach from a bad angle and allow me to see that they are my pursuer with the the stun button flashing over their heads. I should be allowed to stun them if I know that they are my pursuer. It's very frustrating just running circles around your pursuer while you die.

Also I play on the PC and the community is smaller so I often play with at least 1 or 2 high level people (by high level I mean 35+ judging from the personas they use. I'm level 25 btw).

EDIT: Also I'd just like to say that Poison wouldn't be so bad if it was available at a lower level like smoke bomb. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you get the stun icon, YOU CAN STUN THEM.

You're just not trying to stun early enough.

They'll usually still Poison you (not always, though), but they gain 150 - 300 points (depending which version of Poison), and you gain 200 for the Stun - their Poison gave them a bonus of 100 points against you at most when you do that.

NerfSmerf
04-03-2011, 09:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dragynfyre0:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CrazyShrapnel:
And if you see someone nearby who you know is going to kill you... why let them? Poison range is much smaller than the normal kill range. Infact I'd say stun range is bigger (though that may just be lag messing with my view of ingame events). They could kill you from a step or two away just from pressing kill. But they don't. They kill you with poison. Why are you letting that happen? Run. Make them chase you and escape them. Hide around a corner and stun them as they walk round. Hang around a lookalike. It'll be even easier to defend yourself once you have smokebomb. Don't let them poison you.

The basis of your complaint seems to be that high levels get high points. Ofcourse they do. They've played for longer, know various tips and tricks and have unlocked shiny new skills. New players aren't meant to go up against high levels regularly, matchmaking (usually) tries to match people with others of a similar level/rank. So yes poison is overpowered to you. Because you're underpowered. Once you start unlocking the same things everyone else has, you'll see things similarly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Problem is many times that I get poisoned is when I've morphed the crowd around me and have waited for about a minute or 2 for pursuer to try and assassinate me and either get a lure bonus or stun them so I don't run. Sure if they get lucky and choose the right persona then they deserve points for a kill but I don't believe they deserve the extra 300 points for a poison when they approach from a bad angle and allow me to see that they are my pursuer with the the stun button flashing over their heads. I should be allowed to stun them if I know that they are my pursuer. It's very frustrating just running circles around your pursuer while you die.

Also I play on the PC and the community is smaller so I often play with at least 1 or 2 high level people (by high level I mean 35+ judging from the personas they use. I'm level 25 btw).

EDIT: Also I'd just like to say that Poison wouldn't be so bad if it was available at a lower level like smoke bomb. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This goes back to the topic, "You HAVE to be a uber ninja and not even let your victim know who you are after administering if you want to poison." If they get past your defences, and your as good as dead, why should they care if you know who they are? Your as good as dead anyway. If they approach at a bad angle, as suggested above, why let them? Run! Don't just hope they guess wrong. There are many ways to identify a target over NPC's. Or, smoke and stun. Trust me, I know where your coming from. I used to not even think about running or stunning. Always do this. In reality, NPC lookalikes are often a VERY thin layer of protection. If you know your pursuer, act!

DragynfyreX
04-03-2011, 09:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by obliviondoll:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dragynfyre0:
Problem is many times that I get poisoned is when I've morphed the crowd around me and have waited for about a minute or 2 for pursuer to try and assassinate me and either get a lure bonus or stun them so I don't run. Sure if they get lucky and choose the right persona then they deserve points for a kill but I don't believe they deserve the extra 300 points for a poison when they approach from a bad angle and allow me to see that they are my pursuer with the the stun button flashing over their heads. I should be allowed to stun them if I know that they are my pursuer. It's very frustrating just running circles around your pursuer while you die.

Also I play on the PC and the community is smaller so I often play with at least 1 or 2 high level people (by high level I mean 35+ judging from the personas they use. I'm level 25 btw).

EDIT: Also I'd just like to say that Poison wouldn't be so bad if it was available at a lower level like smoke bomb. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you get the stun icon, YOU CAN STUN THEM.

You're just not trying to stun early enough.

They'll usually still Poison you (not always, though), but they gain 150 - 300 points (depending which version of Poison), and you gain 200 for the Stun - their Poison gave them a bonus of 100 points against you at most when you do that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The timeframe for allowing the stun is too short though. What I'm saying is that the stun should work even after they've poisoned you.

obliviondoll
04-03-2011, 09:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dragynfyre0:
The timeframe for allowing the stun is too short though. What I'm saying is that the stun should work even after they've poisoned you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
By then, you've let them kill you already.

It's your own fault for not stunning earlier.

You can do a last-second turn and stun as they're getting close and be pretty much invisible while doing it - by the time they see you move, it's too late. If they're aiming right, you get the stun, they get the Poison (although sometimes you'll get lucky and they won't even get that). If they're aiming wrong, you sometimes get Lure + Stun, other times just one or the other.

As we keep saying, you're letting them try for a kill, it's your choice to risk it.

If you don't want to take that risk, take NerfSmerf's advice.

Smoke has a MUCH shorter cooldown than Poison, remember?

DragynfyreX
04-03-2011, 09:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NerfSmerf:
This goes back to the topic, "You HAVE to be a uber ninja and not even let your victim know who you are after administering if you want to poison." If they get past your defences, and your as good as dead, why should they care if you know who they are? Your as good as dead anyway. If they approach at a bad angle, as suggested above, why let them? Run! Don't just hope they guess wrong. There are many ways to identify a target over NPC's. Or, smoke and stun. Trust me, I know where your coming from. I used to not even think about running or stunning. Always do this. In reality, NPC lookalikes are often a VERY thin layer of protection. If you know your pursuer, act! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

When you get 900-1100 points for a poison then yeah you should have to be a ninja (it's not really that difficult to be ninja anyways) to poison. Either that or give other abilities more bonus points as well. I usually smoke them as much as possible but often times I morph to allow my smoke some time to cool down and get rid of some pursuers. Also running for me tends to be a bad idea because I find that either due to lag or something the my pursuer tends to catch me within a few seconds of running unless they are quite far back and when they're that far it's hard to tell. Also not to mention that most of the time I'm blending is when I have 2-3 pursuers so I'm bound to get caught by someone while running.

With the amount of points you get poison needs to be a higher risk move. You either try and go for the incognito+hidden kill and get 600 points or try the riskier 900 point poison.

obliviondoll
04-03-2011, 09:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dragynfyre0:
When you get 900-1100 points for a poison then yeah you should have to be a ninja (it's not really that difficult to be ninja anyways) to poison. Either that or give other abilities more bonus points as well. I usually smoke them as much as possible but often times I morph to allow my smoke some time to cool down and get rid of some pursuers. Also running for me tends to be a bad idea because I find that either due to lag or something the my pursuer tends to catch me within a few seconds of running unless they are quite far back and when they're that far it's hard to tell. Also not to mention that most of the time I'm blending is when I have 2-3 pursuers so I'm bound to get caught by someone while running.

With the amount of points you get poison needs to be a higher risk move. You either try and go for the incognito+hidden kill and get 600 points or try the riskier 900 point poison. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
They already do this.

Look at my post for advice.

Also, run earlier, or feel comfortable that they didn't Poison you - your running cost them potentially 300 points.

DragynfyreX
04-03-2011, 09:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by obliviondoll:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dragynfyre0:
When you get 900-1100 points for a poison then yeah you should have to be a ninja (it's not really that difficult to be ninja anyways) to poison. Either that or give other abilities more bonus points as well. I usually smoke them as much as possible but often times I morph to allow my smoke some time to cool down and get rid of some pursuers. Also running for me tends to be a bad idea because I find that either due to lag or something the my pursuer tends to catch me within a few seconds of running unless they are quite far back and when they're that far it's hard to tell. Also not to mention that most of the time I'm blending is when I have 2-3 pursuers so I'm bound to get caught by someone while running.

With the amount of points you get poison needs to be a higher risk move. You either try and go for the incognito+hidden kill and get 600 points or try the riskier 900 point poison. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
They already do this.

Look at my post for advice.

Also, run earlier, or feel comfortable that they didn't Poison you - your running cost them potentially 300 points. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not exactly an riskier than a regular hidden+incognito kill when you can approach your target head on and allow them to see you and still manage to get the poison off. By allowing the target to stun their pursuer after being poisoned that forces the pursuer to take a risk if they're approaching their target from the front.

Or they can make poison available at lower levels (maybe level 8 or something) as that would balance it.

Daidarapochi
04-03-2011, 10:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dragynfyre0:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by obliviondoll:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dragynfyre0:
When you get 900-1100 points for a poison then yeah you should have to be a ninja (it's not really that difficult to be ninja anyways) to poison. Either that or give other abilities more bonus points as well. I usually smoke them as much as possible but often times I morph to allow my smoke some time to cool down and get rid of some pursuers. Also running for me tends to be a bad idea because I find that either due to lag or something the my pursuer tends to catch me within a few seconds of running unless they are quite far back and when they're that far it's hard to tell. Also not to mention that most of the time I'm blending is when I have 2-3 pursuers so I'm bound to get caught by someone while running.

With the amount of points you get poison needs to be a higher risk move. You either try and go for the incognito+hidden kill and get 600 points or try the riskier 900 point poison. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
They already do this.

Look at my post for advice.

Also, run earlier, or feel comfortable that they didn't Poison you - your running cost them potentially 300 points. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not exactly an riskier than a regular hidden+incognito kill when you can approach your target head on and allow them to see you and still manage to get the poison off. By allowing the target to stun their pursuer after being poisoned that forces the pursuer to take a risk if they're approaching their target from the front.

Or they can make poison available at lower levels (maybe level 8 or something) as that would balance it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

At level 8, you should still be learning how to identify who your pursuer is and defending yourself. And since everyone and their mother at the lower levels are using hidden gun, all of the interceptions will discourage the use of poison and encourage the hidden gun.

obliviondoll
04-03-2011, 10:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dragynfyre0:
It's not exactly an riskier than a regular hidden+incognito kill when you can approach your target head on and allow them to see you and still manage to get the poison off. By allowing the target to stun their pursuer after being poisoned that forces the pursuer to take a risk if they're approaching their target from the front.

Or they can make poison available at lower levels (maybe level 8 or something) as that would balance it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you're getting your Poison off after making yourself that obvious, then your target made serious mistakes.

I'm sorry if that means you're not good at countering Poison yet, but keep working at it.

You'll get better at stopping people Poisoning you.

And if you get stunned getting the Poison, you only gained 700 points (assuming Hidden/Incognito/Slow Poison), not 900 - because the 200 your target took should be factored in as well.

DragynfyreX
04-03-2011, 10:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by obliviondoll:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dragynfyre0:
It's not exactly an riskier than a regular hidden+incognito kill when you can approach your target head on and allow them to see you and still manage to get the poison off. By allowing the target to stun their pursuer after being poisoned that forces the pursuer to take a risk if they're approaching their target from the front.

Or they can make poison available at lower levels (maybe level 8 or something) as that would balance it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you're getting your Poison off after making yourself that obvious, then your target made serious mistakes.

I'm sorry if that means you're not good at countering Poison yet, but keep working at it.

You'll get better at stopping people Poisoning you.

And if you get stunned getting the Poison, you only gained 700 points (assuming Hidden/Incognito/Slow Poison), not 900 - because the 200 your target took should be factored in as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Countering a poison is far too difficult though. You never know if they're going to come in for a regular kill or a poison kill. If you go for the stun when they're going for a regular kill you're dead.

obliviondoll
04-03-2011, 10:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dragynfyre0:
Countering a poison is far too difficult though. You never know if they're going to come in for a regular kill or a poison kill. If you go for the stun when they're going for a regular kill you're dead. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Only if they guess right and you're not using an ability like Smoke/Mute/Charge/Whatever else.

Dropping FC at medium range and running works too.

Dagio12
04-03-2011, 10:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blind2Society:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gothpunkboy89:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blind2Society:
I would like more abilities other than just poison that allow a player to get massive amounts of points. it's just lame that poison is the only one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

its the smoke poison that is what makes it unfair. i'd be more then happy if they made it were if you smoke then poison someone you don't get the bonus points for it.

or at least remove the ability to get a focus kill while target is smoked.

i'd prefer the first one but will take the second one </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The problem I have with smoke+poison is that they don't loose all there stealth bonuses. I'm a firm believer that throwing a smoke bomb in front of your target is, in no way, stealthy. This applies to all situations where smoke is used offensively not just with poison. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't really understand this argument. If one was able to get to you and get you stuck in there smoke bomb, then they got close enough to you either by being stealthy and undetected or you just werent paying enough attention to either use defense or bounce out of there. ( there will always be a few exceptions.. but thats part of the game) Point being, if they were in low profile and close enough that they smoked you.. then you were pretty much as good as dead at that point. they were still silent or incognito up to that very point they dropped the bomb in your face (it was pretty much as good as hitting X and just getting the kill). In my opinion, if you get close enough to me and i wasnt paying any attention to "try" and stop you and you smoke me.. then by all means,get your silent poison focus me to death.. take advantage of my moment of weakness. as a smart player you should capitalize on those situations every now and then.

OT tho, poison is pretty balanced, and you earn it as you level up (its a reward for putting time and effort into the game). If people are getting 900+ points on a poison kill, they are getting other bonuses there as well. so its not just the poison that will get you big points. its all about learning how and when to use it to maximize it.

DragynfyreX
04-03-2011, 10:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by obliviondoll:
Only if they guess right and you're not using an ability like Smoke/Mute/Charge/Whatever else.

Dropping FC at medium range and running works too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If they guess wrong then I get the lure and that's good but when they do guess right but attack from the front instead they don't deserve any more points than a regular incog+hidden kill.

Also like I said most of the time smoke is in cooldown and going smoke + FC is a pretty meh build.

Blind2Society
04-03-2011, 10:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SF2themax:
I don't really understand this argument. If one was able to get to you and get you stuck in there smoke bomb, then they got close enough to you either by being stealthy and undetected or you just werent paying enough attention to either use defense or bounce out of there. ( there will always be a few exceptions.. but thats part of the game) Point being, if they were in low profile and close enough that they smoked you.. then you were pretty much as good as dead at that point. they were still silent or incognito up to that very point they dropped the bomb in your face (it was pretty much as good as hitting X and just getting the kill). In my opinion, if you get close enough to me and i wasnt paying any attention to "try" and stop you and you smoke me.. then by all means,get your silent poison focus me to death.. take advantage of my moment of weakness. as a smart player you should capitalize on those situations every now and then. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree. First of all smoke range and kill range are not the same. If they were smoke would be useless. Secondly, smoke is most often used offensively as a counter. Thirdly, just because they got within smoke range of you does not mean they got there stealthily. Regardless of use, offensive smoke is not stealthy and therefore should not recieve stealthy bonuses.

obliviondoll
04-03-2011, 10:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dragynfyre0:
If they guess wrong then I get the lure and that's good but when they do guess right but attack from the front instead they don't deserve any more points than a regular incog+hidden kill. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Unless they use an ability with no defensive utility and a 90 second cooldown and risk losing the kill for a chance at an extra 150 - 300 points.

EDIT:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blind2Society:
Secondly, smoke is most often used offensively as a counter. Thirdly, just because they got within smoke range of you does not mean they got there stealthily. Regardless of use, offensive smoke is not stealthy and therefore should not recieve stealthy bonuses. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Skipping the first part because it's correct and not relevant to my part of the argument anyway.

2. So you've used an ability to try and stun/escape, and your pursuer counters it. I see no problem.

3. If they didn't get there stealthily, they won't get the stealth bonuses.

It's not the Smoke itself earning the bonuses, it's the player's approach.

I think if they capped your detection meter at the current level while your target is caught in Smoke (so it doesn't keep rising), that would be an improvement.

That way, a player who drops to Discreet, then Smokes, DOESN'T get to wait for their Silent kill.

Dagio12
04-03-2011, 11:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blind2Society:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SF2themax:
I don't really understand this argument. If one was able to get to you and get you stuck in there smoke bomb, then they got close enough to you either by being stealthy and undetected or you just werent paying enough attention to either use defense or bounce out of there. ( there will always be a few exceptions.. but thats part of the game) Point being, if they were in low profile and close enough that they smoked you.. then you were pretty much as good as dead at that point. they were still silent or incognito up to that very point they dropped the bomb in your face (it was pretty much as good as hitting X and just getting the kill). In my opinion, if you get close enough to me and i wasnt paying any attention to "try" and stop you and you smoke me.. then by all means,get your silent poison focus me to death.. take advantage of my moment of weakness. as a smart player you should capitalize on those situations every now and then. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree. First of all smoke range and kill range are not the same. If they were smoke would be useless. Secondly, smoke is most often used offensively as a counter. Thirdly, just because they got within smoke range of you does not mean they got there stealthily. Regardless of use, offensive smoke is not stealthy and therefore should not recieve stealthy bonuses. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. Im not saying they are the same.. im simply saying that if the target let the pursuer get that close and didnt react in some way, shape, or form, ( and the pursuer approached in low profile) then the target is "probably" as good as dead. pursuer reacted first and got the upper hand. he/she should get the kill and the points that go along with it.

2. what obliviondoll said

3. im not saying just because they smoked you means they got there stealthily. obviously if they come running at with a big red shiny hat they wont get the silent bonuses. im merely talking about if they approached you in low profile and then catch you in a smoke bomb when you werent expecting it. then there is no reason they shouldnt get the silent bonuses.

I think what obliviondoll said makes perfect sense. once you catch someone in a smoke bomb, you retain the level of stealth that the meter was reading at that time, and it shouldnt go up as the seconds pass. i think thats a very fair option. but saying once a smoke bomb is dropped you shouldnt get silent bonuses period doesnt make sense to me.

if i approach you silently and drop a bomb in your face, i consider that as stealthy as approaching you silently and then stabbing you. the approach and end result are pretty much the same thing. thats all im saying.

Blind2Society
04-03-2011, 11:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by obliviondoll:
EDIT:

Skipping the first part because it's correct and not relevant to my part of the argument anyway.

2. So you've used an ability to try and stun/escape, and your pursuer counters it. I see no problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Popping smoke is making a scene and making a scene is not stelthy. Also, I saw them coming so they were not stealthy enough http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by obliviondoll:
3. If they didn't get there stealthily, they won't get the stealth bonuses. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ageed. I was merely commenting on

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SF2themax:
If one was able to get to you and get you stuck in there smoke bomb, then they got close enough to you either by being stealthy and undetected or you just werent paying enough attention to either use defense or bounce out of there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As for the not paying attention part, once they pop their smoke they have officially caused a scene.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by obliviondoll:
It's not the Smoke itself earning the bonuses, it's the player's approach. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The smoke is part of the approach as it happens before the kill sequence is initiated. Any high profile action that takes place before the kill sequence is initiated will reduce the detection meter. I consider throwing a smoke bomb to be an extremely high profile action.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by obliviondoll:
I think if they capped your detection meter at the current level while your target is caught in Smoke (so it doesn't keep rising), that would be an improvement.

That way, a player who drops to Discreet, then Smokes, DOESN'T get to wait for their Silent kill. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Though, if my ideas were implemented this would be irrelevant i still agree that this would be an improvement.

Dagio12
04-03-2011, 11:48 PM
@blind2society

i kind of see your point with the causing a scene. but its more of a scene to anyone else in the area that has seen it, not really your target as its a little to late for them. you already approached them without being "detected" by them. so in essence.. everytime you kill someone, you are causing a scene. but we arent discussing the pursuer and EVERYONE else in the area... its the action between your pursuer and target. and you ( the player) may have "seen" the person coming, but the game doesnt recognize that. theres been plenty of times that ive seen my pursuer coming at me but didnt have time to react and got killed. I personally knew it was coming and new that it was my pursuer, but the game doesnt recognize that since the pursuer wasnt running around.. therefore, they get the silent bonus points.

Blind2Society
04-04-2011, 12:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SF2themax:
@blind2society

i kind of see your point with the causing a scene. but its more of a scene to anyone else in the area that has seen it, not really your target as its a little to late for them. you already approached them without being "detected" by them. so in essence.. everytime you kill someone, you are causing a scene. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The difference being that the smoke bombing takes place before the kill sequence.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SF2themax:
but we arent discussing the pursuer and EVERYONE else in the area... its the action between your pursuer and target. and you ( the player) may have "seen" the person coming, but the game doesnt recognize that. theres been plenty of times that ive seen my pursuer coming at me but didnt have time to react and got killed. I personally knew it was coming and new that it was my pursuer, but the game doesnt recognize that since the pursuer wasnt running around.. therefore, they get the silent bonus points. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I undestand the game doesn't recognise when I locate my persuer. The only way for that to work would be to link the detection meter to defensive locking. People would spam this everytime they heard whispers though, so it would suck. However, your detection meter is between you and your persuer. If you use high profile actions in fornt of them it will decrease. I consider throwing smoke to be extremely high profile so it should automatically drop your detection meter to 0 when used in line of sight of your target.

Additional note: I agree there should be a cap at each stage of the detection meter regardless of ability use. If it goes to zero it never goes back up to discreet, If it goes to silent it will not go back up to incog. So, if it goes to discreet it should not go back up to silent.

obliviondoll
04-04-2011, 12:17 AM
The thing is, it's high profile in the sense that it draws attention, but it's an ability, and making it count as high profile would be a gameplay balance issue - aiming the gun is high profile, that should count too. Throwing Firecrackers is the same animation as Smoke, and draws more reaction from the crowd over a large area, make that super high profile too. What about Throwing Knives? Not a normal animation - maybe gets less attention than the others, but that should count as well, right?

Pretty much... Mute is the only ability you could go without having a huge hit to the detection meter with by that logic.

All the abilities work reliably and sensible as they are, in my opinion. They're MEANT to give you an advantage over performing the same action without spending a cooldown.

Smoke - immobilises your target or pursuers, giving the chance for Stun or Focus, but risking the target using their own ability while you're dropping it.

I've had people get close enough before dropping Smoke that I managed to stun them mid-drop before I started choking. You still need to be at least a little bit careful using it.

And if you get counter-smoked, you miss out on the Focus, or you get killed if you were the target. If you get counter-Muted as a pursuer, you lose the Focus. If you get counter-FCed, you'll usually miss the Focus, and sometimes give away a Lure or even a Stun.

Blind2Society
04-04-2011, 12:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by obliviondoll:
The thing is, it's high profile in the sense that it draws attention, but it's an ability, and making it count as high profile would be a gameplay balance issue - aiming the gun is high profile, that should count too. Throwing Firecrackers is the same animation as Smoke, and draws more reaction from the crowd over a large area, make that super high profile too. What about Throwing Knives? Not a normal animation - maybe gets less attention than the others, but that should count as well, right? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I say yes to all of this up to throwing knives and the pistol kills so that's a given. Throwing knives are quiet and the action of throwing them is much more subtle than the rest. So as for throwing knives, no, I don't think it should apply

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by obliviondoll:
Pretty much... Mute is the only ability you could go without having a huge hit to the detection meter with by that logic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
(and throwing knives-refer to point above) I don't mind this. Actually, I would prefer it. Defensive abilities should be defensive abilities and offensive should be offensive IMO. And it wouldn't be unbalanced as it would be the same for everybody. It would mean less average points per round but it would be less for everyone.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by obliviondoll:
All the abilities work reliably and sensible as they are, in my opinion. They're MEANT to give you an advantage over performing the same action without spending a cooldown. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's fine, I respect your opinion.

assassinchief7
04-04-2011, 05:52 AM
You do realise poison has almost the same range as stun? Trying to poison is like trying to stun, meaning it's difficult and could get you smoked.

Dagio12
04-04-2011, 06:08 AM
why shouldnt knives count? maybe they are less subtle to the other people around you, but the detection has to do between pursuer and target, and usually, if someone knives me, i either see them do it or have enough time to turn my camera and watch my pursuer walk over to me while im vulnerable. This usually gives me much more time to react if i have the abilities to then reacting to someone who smoke bombed me when i wasnt expecting it. so in my opinion knives not only give pursuers away but allows the target more time to react usually.

i dont know. opinions are opinions, and i respect yours. but i still think everything is rather well balanced for a video game.

YourInnate
04-04-2011, 07:03 AM
So if I am 20 feet away from my target, and captain obvious comes along and starts a chase and I throw a smoke to get a stun... Why should I nite be forced to get a crappy kill on my target?

You are penalizing me for somebody else starting a chase with me...

Also, if I am on a high wire or a roof ledge and you are walking by a group, and I decide to drop a smoke on you from above then drop down and get poison.... Why should I lose my bonuses for such a stealthy move. People don't look up enough in this game to defend themselves, and I stealthily took advantage of it... Again, why should I be penalized when my target is spinning his camera around desperately looking fir the person who dropped smoke, only to see me jump down at the last second (which I gladly lose stealth bonus for) and administer sweet liquid justice.

stingray10
04-04-2011, 10:00 AM
Poison is not over powered. Your pursuer must come by real close for them to poison and the stun boundary is larger, so if you had your wits about you, you could stun them without them inflicting poison.

Blind2Society
04-04-2011, 01:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by YourInnate:
Why should I nite be forced to get a crappy kill on my target? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Um... because you committed a high profile action in front of them by smashing a smoke bomb in front of them. I'm starting to feel like a broken record http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Less we all forget... this is MY OPINION.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by YourInnate:
You are penalizing me for somebody else starting a chase with me... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No. I am penalizing you for smashing a smoke bomb in front of your target.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by YourInnate:
People don't look up enough in this game to defend themselves, and I stealthily took advantage of it... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Granted some people don't look up. I look up all the time. I think the reason for this is quite often when your persuer is above you and you are in a blend group there is not much else to do other than hope they pick the one. You could try to run but the kill sequence will most likely just pull you back.

Blind2Society
04-04-2011, 01:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SF2themax:
why shouldnt knives count? maybe they are less subtle to the other people around you, but the detection has to do between pursuer and target, and usually, if someone knives me, i either see them do it or have enough time to turn my camera and watch my pursuer walk over to me while im vulnerable. This usually gives me much more time to react if i have the abilities to then reacting to someone who smoke bombed me when i wasnt expecting it. so in my opinion knives not only give pursuers away but allows the target more time to react usually. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I see your point but that's just how I feel.

YourInnate
04-04-2011, 04:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blind2Society:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by YourInnate:
Why should I nite be forced to get a crappy kill on my target? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Um... because you committed a high profile action in front of them by smashing a smoke bomb in front of them. I'm starting to feel like a broken record http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Less we all forget... this is MY OPINION. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I understand that you are looking at it as I'm being penalized for "high profiling" my smoke bomb. The fact of the matter is, captain obvious started a chase with me and the smoke is to defend myself. If my pursuer sees me approaching him, then drop smoke to defend myself, then continue on my way to him, he practically has the drop on me already, knowing I don't have the counter smoke for his defensive smoke. Attacker is already at a disadvantage.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by YourInnate:
You are penalizing me for somebody else starting a chase with me... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No. I am penalizing you for smashing a smoke bomb in front of your target.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indirectly, whether you want to admit it or not, you are penalizing me for someone starting a chase with me. If I am 10 feet away from my target, preparing a stellar kill, and someone comes rushing in, I am to abandon my kill and run out of line of sight to defend myself? Running out of line of sight will likely drop me from high profile as it is! Your suggestion penalizes people who defend themselves. Isto facto, you are trying to nerf something that GOOD PLAYERS do.


What you're suggesting will empower runners. It will give people cause to run around the map and start chases, and start going for K/D over quality kills. If I know you are close to killing someone and you are a few hundred points in front of me, I'll force you into throwing a defensive smoke so that if I don't kill you, you are getting a crappy score on your target. It's called griefing people. Ever run into grandmasters rolling around with guns and knives or charge and just going for chases? It isn't because they got to grandmaster that way (albeit I bet some of them could). It is more than likely because they have been having a bad string on luck in their past few games and care more about taking stress out by ****ing people off then actually attempting to do well. Your suggestion empowers griefing. I'm sorry, but I won't get behind anything that empowers griefing.

Blind2Society
04-04-2011, 04:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by YourInnate:
Indirectly, whether you want to admit it or not, you are penalizing me for someone starting a chase with me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
There are other/more discreet ways of preventing death.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by YourInnate:
What you're suggesting will empower runners. It will give people cause to run around the map and start chases, and start going for K/D over quality kills. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't think the changes I have suggested would change my playstyle and I, rarely if ever, run around starting chases.

DragynfyreX
04-04-2011, 05:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by assassinchief7:
You do realise poison has almost the same range as stun? Trying to poison is like trying to stun, meaning it's difficult and could get you smoked. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No due to lag and other considerations you don't really risk getting stunned unless they drop a smoke or something since after you poison them they can't stun you.

Trenixdecease
04-04-2011, 07:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by obliviondoll:
The thing is, it's high profile in the sense that it draws attention, but it's an ability, and making it count as high profile would be a gameplay balance issue </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Charge gives you a high profile. I've just played a game with all players who had a smoke bomb and poison, think talking about this topic just made people figure out how to abuse poison.

xCr0wnedNorris
04-04-2011, 07:31 PM
I never understood the whole smoke + poison thing. Just sneak up to me all non-conspicuous-like and just quietly poison me for the same amount of points using only 1 ability. I do it to people all the time, it's not that hard. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Serrachio
04-04-2011, 07:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xCr0wnedNorris:
I never understood the whole smoke + poison thing. Just sneak up to me all non-conspicuous-like and just quietly poison me for the same amount of points using only 1 ability. I do it to people at the time, it's not that hard. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, but people try to guarantee that kill, and with RR Smoke Bomb, it will return in 40 seconds.

So, unless they know a pursuer is nearby, why not?

YourInnate
04-04-2011, 07:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Charge gives you a high profile. I've just played a game with all players who had a smoke bomb and poison, think talking about this topic just made people figure out how to abuse poison. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Less than a tenth of the total acb population visits this forum with any regularity enough to see this thread and decide to abuse something.

The reason charge makes you high profile is because the PEOPLE WHO MADE THIS GAME decided your level of discretion would be based on movement, not actions.

In fact, that kind of goes with the whole idea someone had about losing stealth bonuses when using smoke bombs.

Here's the thing, UBI decided to simplify the detection meter and based it purely on distance covered in set amounts of time (velocity, if you will).

They decided to not include any actions that a player or npc performs. I can dinosaur walk across the entire map, past all 4 of my targets in manhunt, and not ever drop below incognito, even though it is very clearly me. That is how the game is programmed. If you want this game to change to be more realistic and incorporate things like the act of dropping a smoke bomb, or dropping fireworks, then we have to start incorporating fall damage. And we'll have to start making it so that when someone stuns someone else on a roof and the original pursuer falls off, they die and the person who stunned them gets kill points.

You're asking to rewrite the game. The truth is, people who have been playing this game for almost a year now (beta), LOVE the fact that it is already one of the most balanced multiplayer experiences ever created. No one player has an advantage over another once all things are unlocked. The winner WILL ALWAYS come down to skill (and in some cases lag).

If you can't keep up, move on.



EDIT: This post was not directed at any one individual, but merely at the community in general.

Blind2Society
04-04-2011, 08:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xCr0wnedNorris:
I never understood the whole smoke + poison thing. Just sneak up to me all non-conspicuous-like and just quietly poison me for the same amount of points using only 1 ability. I do it to people at the time, it's not that hard. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the reason most people use smoke with poison is they don't want the circle icon above their head to give them away. At least the ones that are good enough to get that close unoticed.

biglesias
04-04-2011, 08:02 PM
Smoke-Poison combo is awesome! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

obliviondoll
04-04-2011, 09:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trenixdecease:
Charge gives you a high profile. I've just played a game with all players who had a smoke bomb and poison, think talking about this topic just made people figure out how to abuse poison. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No... Charge doesn't give you high profile.

Running because you're using Charge makes you high profile.

Activate it close enough that the running part doesn't kick in and decrease your stealth meter, and you'll be fine.

It's not the activation of the ability that's high profile. EVER. With ANY ability.