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View Full Version : What's REALLY happening with IL2 / BOB?



Sharkey888
12-17-2005, 01:24 PM
It seems only a short time ago that Il 2 was "dead" and BOB was going to take over. Now I'm hearing about new Burma, Slovakia etc. maps, 3(!) Russian add-ons, new German ground objects and all the planes that have been held in place for a year, ie. Macchi's, Do-335, Oscar II etc.

I see Luthier's name again and after PF I can only take all of these add-ons with a huge grain of salt.

People were told to stop developing for IL2 a year ago and now all of a sudden there is going to be a load of new content.

Does this mean BOB is having problems or 1C/Ubi realised they can sqeeze more $$ out of this sim? What's going on-am I the only one who is starting to get confused over this situation!?

Not trying to whine but after seeing Rola's post at Netwings I feel kinda the same as he does!!




ROLA's Quote:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Development updates and news will start again." - well it's about time! The official IL-2/PF website looks almost dead when compared to the "good ol' times" when we had dev.update every (other) Friday. Time to ask ourselves, when we had some official WIP screenshots last time? In the case of BOB, it was something like 18 months ago! The links were removed from the official website - why? they're trying to "lie low"? Fortunately the images can still be found on the server, if you follow old links. It's only good we got some "leaked" (ie: presented only on the UBI-forum) cockpit pics + video 4 months ago, straight from Oleg.

Please forgive me the bitterness of my words, but it was suggested to me 2 years ago by you-know-who that IL-2 series is coming to an end and I should focus on The Future Sim(TM) from now on. And that was partially true for ~ 6 months, but then came Pacific Fighters and now I hear about several add-ons with maps etc.
Just think what I could possibly do during those 2 years, had I still sticked to the old Sturmovik series...

So I'm still waiting anxiously for that another Russian revolution in flightsims..."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sharkey888
12-17-2005, 01:24 PM
It seems only a short time ago that Il 2 was "dead" and BOB was going to take over. Now I'm hearing about new Burma, Slovakia etc. maps, 3(!) Russian add-ons, new German ground objects and all the planes that have been held in place for a year, ie. Macchi's, Do-335, Oscar II etc.

I see Luthier's name again and after PF I can only take all of these add-ons with a huge grain of salt.

People were told to stop developing for IL2 a year ago and now all of a sudden there is going to be a load of new content.

Does this mean BOB is having problems or 1C/Ubi realised they can sqeeze more $$ out of this sim? What's going on-am I the only one who is starting to get confused over this situation!?

Not trying to whine but after seeing Rola's post at Netwings I feel kinda the same as he does!!




ROLA's Quote:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Development updates and news will start again." - well it's about time! The official IL-2/PF website looks almost dead when compared to the "good ol' times" when we had dev.update every (other) Friday. Time to ask ourselves, when we had some official WIP screenshots last time? In the case of BOB, it was something like 18 months ago! The links were removed from the official website - why? they're trying to "lie low"? Fortunately the images can still be found on the server, if you follow old links. It's only good we got some "leaked" (ie: presented only on the UBI-forum) cockpit pics + video 4 months ago, straight from Oleg.

Please forgive me the bitterness of my words, but it was suggested to me 2 years ago by you-know-who that IL-2 series is coming to an end and I should focus on The Future Sim(TM) from now on. And that was partially true for ~ 6 months, but then came Pacific Fighters and now I hear about several add-ons with maps etc.
Just think what I could possibly do during those 2 years, had I still sticked to the old Sturmovik series...

So I'm still waiting anxiously for that another Russian revolution in flightsims..."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HelSqnProtos
12-17-2005, 02:15 PM
S~!

Hard to comment on this .................. many will be offended.

Far as I know, (which is not too much more than everyone else) B.O.B. is going well.

With regards to pf, online numbers and interest had gotten dangerously low. The hardcore pilots were not flying. Imho opinion this was primarily because of too much attention being paid to the df community and not enough to the online war and coop community.

With the introduction of IL2war at least as a "fun" online war, numbers have quadrupled in just a week or so. The new maps and other offerings in my humble opinion are things to keep the base happy until B.O.B. goes gold. I believe that the people who 'guide' the sim have seen the error of appeasing the dfers too much and will spend more time for the silent majority. Squadrons and Online War vets.

Anyway I am happy to see numbers and interest picking up. New maps and such are nice but the biggest boon to the sim will be the release of the DVD - only because it will allow the new pilots to access all the components of the sim without the need for patches ect..... This is useful for onliners and offliners alike.

As someone who has the current sim and all relevant updates ect.... I am looking for new content, as I believe most everyone else is. I don't intend to buy a DVD without it, and I believe most people wouldn't either. As far as cash grabs -- who can say. Its a business after all and they will push till they see that the market won't bear anymore. Thats their job. Ours is to voice our displeasure when we don't like something.

There is a lot of information out there if you take the time to find out. However, I am not at liberty to discuss it because friendships would be on the line.

Just leave it at this, if you want the DVD go get it.

Personally I will buy it a lot more happily if there is new content and the community does not get split along addon lines. ie/ Russian addon ect......

Enjoy what we have now near the end. Soon there will be a new day and a new sim, something that promises to be revolutionary.

Bring on the B.O.B.

Ok fanboys let the flames begin.

SaQSoN
12-17-2005, 02:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">People were told to stop developing for IL2 a year ago and now all of a sudden there is going to be a load of new content.

Does this mean BOB is having problems or 1C/Ubi realised they can sqeeze more $$ out of this sim? What's going on-am I the only one who is starting to get confused over this situation!? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This just means, it took almost a year to fix the user made models (which were supplied before the deadline) and implement them into the game properly, which, in turn, may tell you at least something about the labour intencity, required to add anything into this game.
The BoB is being developed parallel to the "Russian" add-ons and implementation of the user-made planes, ground objects and maps.

And the fact, that Oleg didn't dropped this user-made objects, despite this is hurting the BoB development, only shows his dedication and respect to the comunity.

But, he also a businessman, so he needs to cover his expences somehow, and that is why more commercial add-ons were made for the FB/PF - to cover expences on implamentation of the user-made content.

As for Luthier, you don't know a half of it, so I wouldn't take your comment about him in account.
Because serious and mature person wouldn't talk seriously about things, he/she doesn't have a slightest idea about.

VW-IceFire
12-17-2005, 02:48 PM
It was never dead so it couldn't have been considered dead or anything of the sort.

Lots of people, in the last year or so, were writing the series off saying that it was over, done with, and gone. And yet many of those same people are still flying with us and are still gobbling up the latest updates.

Oleg knows he's got an audience here and he is very good at tossing us some carrots and I like carrots so I'm eating them up http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Some new flyable aircraft and maps done by third parties with some minor/major involvement from Oleg's team when they have spare time while working on BoB does wonders for keeping us entertained. It also means we'll still be here when BoB arrives.

Sharkey888
12-17-2005, 04:25 PM
Thanks for the civil replys from all of you. I have been into Il2 since the beginning and want it to succeed!

I only play offline so I have a slightly different perspective than most of you who post on these and SimHQ, Netwings, etc forums!!

As for this:


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SaQSoN:
Because serious and mature person wouldn't talk seriously about things, he/she doesn't have a slightest idea about. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can only get my info from hundreds of posts over the last 2 years to get MY info about PF. Many disgruntled modelers and just how the final product came out gives me enough info about him. He's a great modeler but too bad PF was not scaled back to have more "focused" content!

I didn't start this thread to bash Luthier and I only hope the best for IL2/BOB http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

HelSqnProtos
12-18-2005, 03:11 AM
S~! SaQson

Always good to see you post. Thanks for your time.

triggerhappyfin
12-18-2005, 06:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SaQSoN:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">People were told to stop developing for IL2 a year ago and now all of a sudden there is going to be a load of new content.

Does this mean BOB is having problems or 1C/Ubi realised they can sqeeze more $$ out of this sim? What's going on-am I the only one who is starting to get confused over this situation!? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This just means, it took almost a year to fix the user made models (which were supplied before the deadline) and implement them into the game properly, which, in turn, may tell you at least something about the labour intencity, required to add anything into this game.
The BoB is being developed parallel to the "Russian" add-ons and implementation of the user-made planes, ground objects and maps.

And the fact, that Oleg didn't dropped this user-made objects, despite this is hurting the BoB development, only shows his dedication and respect to the comunity.

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">But, he also a businessman, so he needs to cover his expences somehow, and that is why more commercial add-ons were made for the FB/PF - to cover expences on implamentation of the user-made content.</span>

As for Luthier, you don't know a half of it, so I wouldn't take your comment about him in account.
Because serious and mature person wouldn't talk seriously about things, he/she doesn't have a slightest idea about. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It´s nice to see the descision been made to squeeze a little bit more out of the IL2-series http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Everybody understand, if he only gives it a thought, the development costs money and can´t be given away for free.
What makes me so happy is that Oleg believes in what we all have been discussing over the last year or so, namely the possibilities of further development. Let´s buy all those addons to support the development of the game.

jds1978
12-18-2005, 06:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">triggerhappyfin
Posted Sun December 18 2005 05:37
quote:
Originally posted by SaQSoN:

quote:
People were told to stop developing for IL2 a year ago and now all of a sudden there is going to be a load of new content.

Does this mean BOB is having problems or 1C/Ubi realised they can sqeeze more $$ out of this sim? What's going on-am I the only one who is starting to get confused over this situation!?


This just means, it took almost a year to fix the user made models (which were supplied before the deadline) and implement them into the game properly, which, in turn, may tell you at least something about the labour intencity, required to add anything into this game.
The BoB is being developed parallel to the "Russian" add-ons and implementation of the user-made planes, ground objects and maps.

And the fact, that Oleg didn't dropped this user-made objects, despite this is hurting the BoB development, only shows his dedication and respect to the comunity.

But, he also a businessman, so he needs to cover his expences somehow, and that is why more commercial add-ons were made for the FB/PF - to cover expences on implamentation of the user-made content.

As for Luthier, you don't know a half of it, so I wouldn't take your comment about him in account.
Because serious and mature person wouldn't talk seriously about things, he/she doesn't have a slightest idea about.


It´s nice to see the descision been made to squeeze a little bit more out of the IL2-series
Everybody understand, if he only gives it a thought, the development costs money and can´t be given away for free.
What makes me so happy is that Oleg believes in what we all have been discussing over the last year or so, namely the possibilities of further development. Let´s buy all those addons to support the development of the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


agree 100%...no conspiracy, just a good business model

ElAurens
12-18-2005, 01:00 PM
Further development of this sim will only help keep the loyal fanbase ready for BoB when it arrives, and it will also serve to bring in even more new players as well.

It also allows Oleg and his team to test new features of BoB on a large, diverse audience, which will only be to all our benefit in the end.

Folks, we have the best WW2 flight simulater ever devised here, let's enjoy all the features that we have and those that will come in the following months without acrimony.

See you in the sky.

Bearcat99
12-19-2005, 09:36 PM
This sim is far from dead.... and it will still be around after BoB comes out.... the die hards will jump on BoB like crazy.... but then if thier rigs cant really handle it.. while they wait to upgrade they will still be able to run FB. There is a whole leigion of flyers inother sim vewnues who couldnt upgrade for FB and wont be able to upgrade for BoB.... but by then the upgrades necessary to run this sim will be more reasonable..... I think this sim will bearound for a while.

HelSqnProtos
12-20-2005, 12:23 AM
S~!

Wrong.

Time and time again the online community has had to upgrade, --- when B.O.B. arrives PF will be dead within a month. That is the way the online world works. Or do you see a lot of FB or AEP servers around?

The nature of this sim is that it is cutting edge. That means that you keep up or get left behind. For me I say -- Oleg bring the rigs to their knees. Tired of people on pentium 1.4 with 256 megs of ram and a geforce 2 thinking that they can fly this game online with 12 fps or god forbid host a competitive match.

Lets get a real hardware standard and stick to it. Those who can't do it cant do it. Simple. Games and technology move on, pilots must too. Simming is expensive. If your not prepared to upgrade regularly your in the wrong hobby. For every pilot you lose you can bring two new ones in if you make the promise of the game come true. You don't do that by dumming down the experience imho.

Personally I am MOST excited by news that the online and offline communities will be split. A version for each. Would love to see that. We don't have to hear them and they don't have to listen to us.

Bring on the B.O.B. S~! and goodbye to PF and its ancient engine/limitations.

ImpStarDuece
12-20-2005, 12:45 AM
I don't plan to upgrade my system for at least 18 months. For everything apart from gaming its fantastic. Why should one piece of software dictate my hardware requirements? I'm not spending $400-1000 just so I can play one flight sim.

So, I'm obviously not going to be playing BofB when its released. I'm sure that there will be fair percentage of the community that will share similar restrictions or make a similar choice.

Similarly, the 1939-1940 European scenario is not everyone's cup of tea. I know that the only reason I bought Pacific Fighters was so that I could have additional European content to use. I was more excited about FAA posibilities, Beaufighters and A-20s than I was about Ki-61s, early P-40s and new maps. So some people are obviously going to stick with the

There were CFS2 servers operating for 6 months to a year after CFS3 came out. I played FB online until the release of the 3.04 patch for Pacific Fighters, because I liked the match ups and server settings more.

Just because your preference is for a killer rig running the latest version of the game, doesn't mean that everyone else prefers the same settings. I run 4.01 and 4.02 in parallel, because I feel the flight model fidelity is better in 4.01 and I have the dreaded 'wobbles'. I play on a laptop, and I'm sure that there are many here who couldn't care less that they dont get perfect settings or can't host a 30 person dogfight server.

If you split the community, things can only be worse, not better. I play 85% offline and 15% online. I enjoy the better immersion and detail of historical and user made campaigns, but occasionally, all I want to do is shoot someone else down. Where does splitting the community leave those users who are neither one thing nor the other?

Sturm_Williger
12-20-2005, 04:49 AM
I was also holding off upgrading till BoB, but when my machine went fizzle...pop, I had no choice.

I don't think FB/AEP/PF will die when BoB comes out as there are plenty of people who fly PTO, late war etc. Bob will be great, I'm sure, but when you get tired of Spit Mk1 and so forth, the other theatres will still have their attraction and it's not like PF is going to magically become rubbish just 'cos BoB is out there.

stubby
12-20-2005, 06:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
The nature of this sim is that it is cutting edge. That means that you keep up or get left behind. For me I say -- Oleg bring the rigs to their knees. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That problem with that mentality is that the developer gets a free pass when it comes to putting the time and money into developing optimal, effecient code. They would rather you, joe consumer fork up the bucks for the latest and greatest technology, instead of them spending the time and effort to develop tight code. il2 PF is a prime example. Just look at benchmarks from other 3d games vs PF and you'll see how poorly coded PF is this department.

Monty_Thrud
12-20-2005, 07:18 AM
Personally i see it as a win win situation for us combat flight simmers...Oleg is allowing other companies to use the IL2 engine, meaning the very worst of our future sims will be up to the quality of IL2 standards(fingers crossed), we still have the addon to come and then BoB will be the iceing on the cake...bareing in mind flight sims are a small part of the market and they're being developed by small but highly dedicated enthusiasts http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Keep up the good work chaps..it is appreciated http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

crazyivan1970
12-20-2005, 10:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stubby:
That problem with that mentality is that the developer gets a free pass when it comes to putting the time and money into developing optimal, effecient code. They would rather you, joe consumer fork up the bucks for the latest and greatest technology, instead of them spending the time and effort to develop tight code. il2 PF is a prime example. Just look at benchmarks from other 3d games vs PF and you'll see how poorly coded PF is this department. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahem... i am not sure if you realize that you are comparing apples and oranges. You cannot compare games that have everything based on simple functions and small environments to a flight simulation. Please understand that. Then closer flight simulations will get to real thing then more functions they will require. Then more CPU cycles.....etc etc. Think about it and dont say it`s poorly coded when you dont really know anything about it.

ElAurens
12-20-2005, 10:44 AM
I agree with both of you in a way.

Ivan is correct in that flight simulation is by far the most difficult "game" that can be run.

However, the new Nvidia test dll's prove that there is room for tightening up some of the coding in the sim. (Great job on them BTW!)

As for seperating the online and offline community, this is a very bad idea.

crazyivan1970
12-20-2005, 10:49 AM
Why do you think it`s a bad idea EL? It looks to me like a same concept that COD has. One install, but two versions... MP and SP. Has nothing to do with separating community to online, offline. Don`t listen to Protos, he`s crazy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ElAurens
12-20-2005, 11:00 AM
Ah, I didn't know that is how it would be implemented Ivan. Thanks for clearing it up.

I do hope the multiplayer is better than COD2's is though... What a waste of money that was...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

crazyivan1970
12-20-2005, 11:03 AM
Look for server called AnarchiCTF

Me, Mutt and Piglet are always in there. Great server http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Original COD sucked too...United Offencive was the one that made a difference http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Armhunter
12-20-2005, 11:55 AM
are there any pictures out of BOB?

EDCF_Rama
12-20-2005, 12:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Armhunter:
are there any pictures out of BOB? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here:
http://www.edc-fr.net/LC_fichiers/bob.JPG

stubby
12-20-2005, 01:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Think about it and dont say it`s poorly coded when you dont really know anything about it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok, i'm an idiot compared to your vast knowledge but explain to me why i can run BOBII with 200+ planes in a furball over Beachy Head and still sustain 30+ fps? If I ran PF using DCG with bomber formations checked (ie get a few dozen bombers), the fps drop to under 5. Just one example of coding.

EDCF_Rama
12-20-2005, 01:11 PM
because (between other things)

1) BoB2 is very poor in ground objects, flat land with texture, and not much more
2) BoB2 bomber formation have a single FM working for the whole formation... FM calculation is done only once for the whole formation (and you can see theses formations moving has if all bombers are tight together with solid links.... totally unreal and killing "immersion" for me)
3) IA is in some part extremelly simple (look if you don't disallow collision with IA for exemple)

etc....

You can't have at the same time the milk, the money of the milk, etc...

FritzGryphon
12-20-2005, 01:18 PM
Only pictures are old ones from development updates. See my sig for more.

http://www.airwarfare.com/Sims/IL2BOB/images/updates/aircraft/ScShot010.jpg

Oleg says that soon there will be more updates.

crazyivan1970
12-20-2005, 01:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stubby:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Think about it and dont say it`s poorly coded when you dont really know anything about it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok, i'm an idiot compared to your vast knowledge but explain to me why i can run BOBII with 200+ planes in a furball over Beachy Head and still sustain 30+ fps? If I ran PF using DCG with bomber formations checked (ie get a few dozen bombers), the fps drop to under 5. Just one example of coding. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

First of all you are not an idiot, you just make incorrect assumptions. Second of all, i already mentioned that it all comes down on complexitiy of simulation. Where BOB is sooo far away from IL2 series in pretty much every department http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

stubby
12-20-2005, 02:54 PM
Bottom line. In order for 1Cs BOB to be immersive and reproduce the historic battle, the new BOB engine will have to be able to handle hundreds of planes in single mission. In addition, it will have to do it such that a person won't require an Enterprise or Cray workstation. PF is a beautiful game no doubt but once the flak is bursting and dozens of planes start flying around, the game experiences a considerable slow down even on the most advanced machines. Though I don't understand all the 0s and 1s of what goes into a sim, 1C will have to think outside the box if they want to bring the whole package for BOB. Just telling 1C to put all their faith in extreme gaming hardware to juggle the workload won't cut it. They'll have to craft up some tight code to make it happen. If not, we'll have a pretty game, cutting edge graphics with only 12 planes flying around Dover. That's the only point I was trying to make out of all this.

Chivas
12-21-2005, 04:11 AM
Oleg has stated he will have no problem filling the sky with planes in BOB with his new engine. I have BOB WOV which is not a bad sim but doesn't come up the standard of FB and will be completely blown away by Olegs BOB. Shockwaves BOB had the most unstable code I've ever seen, but with hard work they are improving it. The new cloud formations they are currently working on look amazing.

I don't fly it much anymore cause last time the game crashed it deleted all my hotas settings. I can't be bothered setting it up again because the dogfighting isn't that much fun anyway. I will keep an eye on it and try again after the next patch. I'm having enough fun with FB/PF to tide me over until Olegs BOB comes out.

JG53Frankyboy
12-21-2005, 04:21 AM
i am doutbing that PFm will die fast after Maddox' BoB will be released.

there fore PFm is much to big and is giving you so much different areas/planes to fly.

so, for example, i cant imagine a long COOP mission based onlinewar with BoB(release version !) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

carguy_
12-21-2005, 05:40 PM
If anyone thinks that a sim released with 10flyables in one theatre operations is going to kill IL2 is wrong.

Wait 3 more years and ask me when was the best modelled Zero ever?


Eitherwise,a perspective of being forced to fly just one lousy 109E fighter makes me love IL2 even more.

Chivas
12-21-2005, 07:04 PM
I love the FB/AEP/PF series, but
I can't see myself going back to FB after BOB is released. The immersion level of Olegs BOB has got to atleast double that of FB. Everything will be inhanced.... Terrain Graphics, Air Bases, Cities and Towns, FM, DM, AI, Aircraft models and cockpits. I spend 90% of my time flying a 109 so flying a 109 in BOB should be alot more fun than flying one in FB.

FB/AEP/PF is a classic with no reason for people not to fly it for years to come. I will just be to busy flying BOB and rhubarbs over the channel to France, and then I will be transfered to Malta and then...... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

SpitIX
12-22-2005, 02:14 PM
Salute all,

Everybody is talking about FM, new planes, hardware requirements... Always the same kind of desires and troubles.
But I would like to ask about another flaming topic.
When I listened about BoB project long time ago, anybody said: "Finally we will have in BoB a massive multiplayer SIM with IL2's quality!"

In my oppinion this is the most important question for the future of our SIM. No matter its name, I think this is the main concept for a lucrative game. For creators and for players too.
I don't see problem with MultiP or Single Player. Offline or Online. The project looks free to each people make his personal choice. (I'm right or not?)

But I don't see great future for creators or simulator community within actual IL2PF out of date marketing concept and its weak online structure.

Massive multiplayer is the future now.
One main arena. Independent HOST. Stable pings. Squads fighting TOGETHER 24 hours to conquest territory. No cheats. No individualism. A lot of strategy.
IMO this is the better way to we get a real and wide WW2 players community. The better SIM unified with the better online playability.

Everybody know piracy problems and how expensive is the development of a game with this quality...

Maybe someone looks me crazy or anything like that. I'm not the only. 600+ people is playing
now, online at same time, a similar game with inferior graphic quality than IL2 but with a too much better community game concept.
Great mutual respect between both sides and great fights.

When I listened about BoB I thought about a SIM concept like this. What we can expect now?

Greatings!

Genie-
12-23-2005, 03:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
I don't plan to upgrade my system for at least 18 months. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

me either http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

but I have just upgraded to AMD 3700 and GF 7800 GTX 256

I really hope that would be enough to run BoB on in decend resolution -&gt; 1280 x 1024 with 2 or 4 AA and 8xAF

Xiolablu3
12-26-2005, 10:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stubby:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Think about it and dont say it`s poorly coded when you dont really know anything about it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok, i'm an idiot compared to your vast knowledge but explain to me why i can run BOBII with 200+ planes in a furball over Beachy Head and still sustain 30+ fps? If I ran PF using DCG with bomber formations checked (ie get a few dozen bombers), the fps drop to under 5. Just one example of coding. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because the polygon counts and textures are much lower quality than IL2.

Because BOB is a very old game dressed up with a few new things.

heywooood
12-26-2005, 04:01 PM
I hope the offline BoB will be better than offline PF/AEP...
Maybe Oleg can include a switch somewhere in the config. file that will allow users to select an 'online' vs 'offline' profile, so that the sim might be optimised for one or the other. This way AI routines and campaign generators as well as other features could be activated or customized for one use or the other and resources managed better.
Some gamers only fly offline - they could select that profile from a menu or use the config. file to select it while others who fly online only could make that selection...then there would not need to be any compromises or concessions made to the program to enhance or diminish certain aspects of the flight sim in order for it to function better in one realm, at the expense of the other.

I only make this suggestion in reply to those who have indicated that this sim is not as good as others in the 'offline' catagory as it could have been so as to make it a better platform for 'online' gaming.

Many have said that this sim gets an average to poor grade in many areas related to offline simulation and that the new BoB sim needs to have a better feel and more immersive character
than this one has - to really get the entire market share it needs to be truly successful.

I hope that 'scalabilty' could somehow come into play in this regard - so that Olegs BoB can please everyone regardless of their preference.

jamesdietz
12-30-2005, 02:04 PM
Well now that I've had the chance to fly & play BoBWoV(& believe me its not all bad ,sound,TrackIRVector,& sheer numbers of aircraft are impressive & patched graphics are actually pretty good..) & the new CFS3 based Over Flanders Field WW-1 Sim,I can say both are fun & interestin & I do go back & play each every couple of days or so,but I've got to say they can't touch FB/PF in terms of crisp clear image of both Aircraft & Terrain& FM of both flyables & AI aircraft,not to mention 3rd party involvement,it still can't be touchedOK I'm very impatient about the next patch with new A/c like the Ju-88& Mossie & Tempest...(say what about the Do-17or 217 anyhow?)I'll be happy for quite a while with this new stuff& I have enough campaigns to last me til I die flying all the pretty stuff I already have .Oh I'll be first in line for BoB believe me , but I don't think I'll drop all the time & downloads invested in FB? No I still love the B-17s , Fw-190s,B-24s and late model 109s& everything else( I may some day decide to do a Russian or Hungarian campaign ,you never know...) this sim has that won't come into the BoB for a long long time if ever...Drop Il-2 Fb I don't think so...but please Oleg hurry up with the patch or DVD or whatever...I want it!I'll be patient for BoB whenever it comes & whatever new rig I have to buy to play it( I'll start saving now!)

AKA_TAGERT
12-30-2005, 11:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
S~!

Wrong.

Time and time again the online community has had to upgrade, --- when B.O.B. arrives PF will be dead within a month. That is the way the online world works. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>No, that is the way it *worked* not *works* imho.

Allow me to explain.. That is how it use to be until the release of IL2. Prior to that, as soon as a new sim came out, eveyone would jump ship to the new one. Why? Well because the old one was not that great in the first place, it had been over a year or two since the first and last patch.. Both sims have about 15 planes to fly.. some the same, a few different. All in all it was a no brainer.. new was better.

But that analogy does not hold anymore.. Why? Because IL2-PF is different.. It has set a new standard in flight sims that has never been seen before, it is the first sim to be supported for years after it's release with major upgards and few patches that not only fixed things but added planes and featuers. Keep in mind, talking pay once box products here.. not pay-to-play sims like Ace's High or Warbirds. The kind of support that Oleg provided was unheard of in the past, and that kind of support builds a loyal base. Also, if BoB has a limited plane set.. i.e. a few versions of a spit and 109 and a few bombers to fly.. I don€t see hard core guys giving up the ability to choose from hundreds of planes to fly just to fly a few in an environment with a little better eye candy. Assuming that BoB is just another newest sim on the shelf.. with a little more polys, a little more eye candy, a little better FM, yada yada yada.. That wont be enought to give up 200+ planes for 20 planes. BoB will have to offer something new and revolutionary for everyone to del IL2-PF from the hard drive and fly BoB 24:7.

Off hand I can think of only one thing that might do it for me.. Support of TrackIR's 6DOF view system.. The ability to lean is high on my list of immersion. But, I don€t think that alone will be enough for everyone.. let alone me.. in that is not revolutionary.. it has been done by CFS3 and other sims. No.. it will take alot more than a little better everything for people to toss 200+ planes for 20 planes. Eye candy is great.. and new eye candy is all you need to sell a FPS Quake type game.. but it takes more than that for hard core flight simmers.

It is actually a complement to Oleg that his only real competition is his own product that he make years ago.

So, I have to agree with Bear, and disagree with you, I think as BoB gets a few add-ons that add enough planes to have the basic set of WWII planes to fly, then and only then will you see IL2-PF start to die out, but until then I think you will see IL2-PF around for a long time to come.

Too put it into prespective (call it a bet). As people move away from IL2-PF to BoB and the head count goes down in the IL2-PF HL lobby.. At any point, even it's lowest, Ill bet the IL2-PF head count will be 5x the LockOn head count! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Skycat_2
12-31-2005, 01:23 AM
People tenaciously clung to EAW, CFS-2, Jane's WWII Fighters and other 'western' sims when IL-2 first came out. It really wasn't until FB was released that the series' popularity began to snowball in the West; CFS-3's dissapointing overall quality plus the lack of other new WWII air sims helped push FB and AEP out of its 'niche' status (in my opinion) as fans of the 'classic' sims finally decided to give FB or AEP a try. Some of those older sims -- EAW especially -- still have a strong fan base from what I see.

I have a hard time believing that FB/PF will die within a month of BoB, even if 1C:MG were to simultaneously announce that all support for FB/PF would cease immediately upon BoB's release. Too many people worldwide own and enjoy FB/PF, plus it has such a variety of maps and aircraft -- some of which haven't ever been represented before in a combat flight sim -- that it's going to remain the sim of choice for many flying squadrons and indvidual players for years to come. Ubi's decision to market an easy-to-install DVD trilogy pack will only ensure FB/PF's longevity in my opinion.

BoB may be a huge technological step forward in the genre and undoubtably it will get a lot of attention when it is released. However, FB/PF will be continue to have a broad appeal to online gamers while BoB will be seen as a detailed "study sim" to most of the gaming world and probably even among Oleg's fans, at least until an expansion for BoB is released.

Consider the cost of converting to BoB. First, there is the high price tag that is placed on a new release; this won't deter serious simmers but it will make casual simmers reconsider how 'necessary' BoB is compared to FB/PF, at least until the initial price comes down. Second, we're already hearing that the hardware required to run BoB will have significantly higher specs than FB/PF -- My system was 'high end' three years ago but now only adequate for running FB/PF; I'm not excited about buying a new high-end computer just to run another game however. I plan to 'get by' with FB/PF and some other sims for another year or two until the techology required to run BoB is established and becomes affordably priced ... and then I'll buy a new, high-end computer to beat it and maybe 'get by' for another five years or so as a new generation of sims and expansions are developed.

Just my thoughts.

Chivas
12-31-2005, 02:23 AM
I agree with alot of your comments, but I fly FB battles because its the most immersive World War 11 Combat flight sim available. I believe BOB will surpass FB in every catagory except the amount of aircraft and theaters. I admit having more aircraft and theaters is a big plus, but I generally only fly one aircraft in one theater with a bunch of like minded souls trying to accomplish our objectives. Going back to FB would be like going back to CFS2, its not going to happen.


You can say that eyecandy isn't everything but I respectfully disagree. Eyecandy is one of the most immersive aspects of any combat flight sim. The more real the cockpits, airfields, surrounding villages, forests, rivers, and hills the greater the feel of flight and speed. All our feedback on the FM and DM goes thru our eyes to our brain. Eyecandy is everything, Some of us do have a joystick that can provide feedback of an impending stall or even a vibrating seat that sends messeges the most frequent way. Up our *ss to our brain. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Sorry couldn't help it, lol.


Will I still fly FB/AEP/PF somehow I doubt it, but its a classic, and I'm sure many people will have it on their harddrives for years.

Bearcat99
12-31-2005, 12:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
S~!
Wrong.
Time and time again the online community has had to upgrade, --- when B.O.B. arrives PF will be dead within a month. That is the way the online world works. Or do you see a lot of FB or AEP servers around?
The nature of this sim is that it is cutting edge. That means that you keep up or get left behind. For me I say -- Oleg bring the rigs to their knees. Tired of people on pentium 1.4 with 256 megs of ram and a geforce 2 thinking that they can fly this game online with 12 fps or god forbid host a competitive match.
Lets get a real hardware standard and stick to it. Those who can't do it cant do it. Simple. Games and technology move on, pilots must too. Simming is expensive. If your not prepared to upgrade regularly your in the wrong hobby. For every pilot you lose you can bring two new ones in if you make the promise of the game come true. You don't do that by dumming down the experience imho.
Personally I am MOST excited by news that the online and offline communities will be split. A version for each. Would love to see that. We don't have to hear them and they don't have to listen to us.
Bring on the B.O.B. S~! and goodbye to PF and its ancient engine/limitations. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont think so. There are hundreds of folks whose only limitation to flying in this sim is their hardware. They try it on their weak rigs.... of course it runs like cr@p so they pan the sim and go back to Warbirds... or Aces High... or CFS.... or wherever, or they start to plan to upgrade so that they can run it. This will always exist no matter what the standard. 1C has already set a very real, new hardware standard. That standard will be raised even higher with BoB. I wont be upgrading till BoB comes out since frankly... the only thing I need the power I now have for is FB. Even then though I will still fly in FB. As BoB expands.... like Oleg already said he wanted to do with it.... then FB will slowly fall away... for me at least, but in the beginning the same thing that kept people from dealing with IL2 (and remaining in say CFS1&2... which was the premier WW2 sim series before FB hit the market and the other online things I mentioned before) will limit BoB, and keep people flying in FB... but not keep BoB from growing. Those things will be mostly preference oriented.... no matter how good BoB is some guys will just want to do thier carrier thing... or fly thier Mustangs.... or not spend the money yet to upgrade till the prices come down a bit or whatever... I think 1C has learned a valuable lesson from thier IL2 experience... and they wont be making any MSCFS mistakes. Be sure.

The thing that made IL2 obsolete was the fact that there was new content in FB. If it had been IL2 with a slightly tweaked engine no one would have given it the time of day and we would all more than likely still be in IL2. If FB2.0 on had not been done we wouldnt have as many fliers here as we do now. If PF had not been released at all we wouldnt have as many folks as we do now..... The same will happen with BoB. I think that many of the folks who dont buy BoB right off will be looking at this series..... and enjoying what they have until they want to do it. I people will spend $29 for one Spitfire in CFS... or FS9... then I dont see this sim dieing anytime soon.. even after BoB.

FB is a great product that will be around and going pretty decently for at least 2 or 3 years after BoB is released if not longer - online and offline. The sheer quality of the sim alone will do that. In two years a guy with a 2-4 year old rig will be able to run this sim..... decently. Much like some other sims now... As I stated there are leigions of guys... who will experience the same thing we did when we came from XYZ sim to this one... after we pick up our jaws and get back in the chair we will dive in head first and start thinking of how we can improve things.

For what it is worth I hope the communities arent split.... I hope some of the options are settable for online or offline.. but I hope the two communities always remain interchangeable.

The fact that there arent many if any FB or AEP servers around has less to do with online vs offline stuff than the fact that most people who get a taste want the whole course..... Again.... a testament to the quality of the sim... Those who constantly find fault with it (Not talking about anyone in particular) just arent looking at it realistically. Thats why all the other WWII sim venues... are slowly fading away and 1C will eventually rule the roost unless something better comes along.

BuzzardHead
12-31-2005, 01:29 PM
At the risk of sounding stupid,what's a dfer?

HelSqnProtos
12-31-2005, 11:29 PM
S~!

The thread was about what is REALLY happening with FB/PF Bearcat. Its not about what you WANT to have happen with it. I think one of the most levelheaded posts in here was the one by Chivas. History is history and facts are facts. Anyone can spin them anyway they want but the core truths remain the same. People will move to B.O.B.

There are no FB or AEP or even PF servers. The reason is that when new versions come out that those are the ones people fly. Just as they will fly B.O.B. - and leave PF behind. It is the natural course of things. We may (will) get quite a bit of 'new' content before B.O.B. is released - as you are realistically looking at mid 2007 for a launch. Got to keep the pilots happy till then. Just good business.

However none of it will be groundbreaking nor will it significantly change the current sim's immersion and the experience we now have.

So what is realistically happening is that there is a new sim on the way, those of us that are really interested in simming or are competitive (online) are looking towards that. For me splitting the onliners and offliners is a GREAT idea. I don't care what language is used to describe it, 'toggable settings' 'selectable installs' ect......... just so long as there is an online only version or for the politically correct "online optimized" version - then I personally will be happy.

The future is B.O.B. - PF will fade VERY quickly, As it should.

One of the reasons that it will not be around for 2-3 years as you predict is the simple fact that Oleg saw the wisdom in opening up certain aspects of the sim to 'user development' Just imagine what the mod community will be able to pump out for a new sim with a few months. Who would bother with PF then???

Logic dictates that when something better comes along people will congregate towards it. You love the old series great. I do to, However I am seeing more of the 'limitations' in the current engine/platform as I try to push the envelope of immersion and useability. To each their own.

You can take the old sim, I am with Oleg and have my eye on whats to come,not what has been.

S~! and Happy New Year to all.

Bearcat99
01-01-2006, 02:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
S~!
The thread was about what is REALLY happening with FB/PF Bearcat. Its not about what you WANT to have happen with it. I think one of the most levelheaded posts in here was the one by Chivas. History is history and facts are facts. Anyone can spin them anyway they want but the core truths remain the same. People will move to B.O.B.
There are no FB or AEP or even PF servers. The reason is that when new versions come out that those are the ones people fly. Just as they will fly B.O.B. - and leave PF behind. It is the natural course of things. We may (will) get quite a bit of 'new' content before B.O.B. is released - as you are realistically looking at mid 2007 for a launch. Got to keep the pilots happy till then. Just good business.
However none of it will be groundbreaking nor will it significantly change the current sim's immersion and the experience we now have.
So what is realistically happening is that there is a new sim on the way, those of us that are really interested in simming or are competitive (online) are looking towards that. For me splitting the onliners and offliners is a GREAT idea. I don't care what language is used to describe it, 'toggable settings' 'selectable installs' ect......... just so long as there is an online only version or for the politically correct "online optimized" version - then I personally will be happy.
The future is B.O.B. - PF will fade VERY quickly, As it should.
One of the reasons that it will not be around for 2-3 years as you predict is the simple fact that Oleg saw the wisdom in opening up certain aspects of the sim to 'user development' Just imagine what the mod community will be able to pump out for a new sim with a few months. Who would bother with PF then???
Logic dictates that when something better comes along people will congregate towards it. You love the old series great. I do to, However I am seeing more of the 'limitations' in the current engine/platform as I try to push the envelope of immersion and useability. To each their own.
You can take the old sim, I am with Oleg and have my eye on whats to come,not what has been.
S~! and Happy New Year to all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well the only ones who can tell you what is really happening with IL2/BoB.. is Oleg and 1C... everything else including what you and I both have to say is conjecture, opinion and/or wishfull thinking. Since no one from 1C has posted in here yet (That I am aware of... maybe someone has and I dont know they are from 1C) all we have is us and our opinions. I still however disagree with you. I'll tell you what... in 2 or 3 years we will see... untill then.. I will be enjoying FBX.XX and when it comes out and I upgrade.... if necessary BoB. When I started IL2 I ran with excellent settings.

I still disagree with you though about the life of FBX.xx..... Hyperlobby still has rooms for EAW, Janes, Flanker.. and other sims that you and I may not fly in but somebody apparently does... THAT is my point. I have no doubt that the migration will begin when BoB is released.... but to say that FBX.XX will be dead shortly after BoB is released? I just dont think so. Plus... If I am not mistaken BoB will not be opened up to 3rd party folks.... FB will.. partially anyway... and even that will be limited... no one will be modding FMs or DMs... just maps and objects. I just dont see this sim rolling over and dieing immediately upon BoBs release. People will still fly this sim.... and the die hards may do both for a while.. even if a short while. I'll be one of those guys... I like my Pony.. I like my carrier ops.. my corasirs.... my P-40s... My Lavochkins... they wont be in BoB.. not initially. I also like my Spitfires and my 109s... so I will be on BoB on the day it is released... even if it is taxing on my rig.... but I for one will still fly FB untill I can get all the things I like in BoB.... just like people flew CFS2 untill they FINALLY got carrier landings, Corasirs, Zekes,Tonys and Wildcats in FB. What...??!! You think they didnt know about FB... or the upcoming PF? They knew.. H@ll I posted about the coming of PF on their forums..... and they flamed me..(some of them) but they wanted what they wanted..... and they flew what they wanted until what they wanted was in FB.. then they came over here... some still kicking and screaming about this or that incomplete xxx... and got hooked.... some even went back to CFS. FB DOA of BoB? I just dont think so.

HelSqnProtos
01-01-2006, 10:56 AM
S~!

was that a rant???

lol

Throw your pom poms up a little higher.

Bearcat99
01-01-2006, 11:18 AM
No ranting here... just making a point....

heywooood
01-01-2006, 11:57 AM
I dont think Olegs BoB will kill IL2 either...in fact, if it is no more immersive for offline users or is plagued with online gaming problems, people with newly upgraded rigs will revert to IL2 because of its massive content and its already well established code (not to mention the fact that the new 'BoB rigs' will be able handle IL2 easily on max settings) for dependable playability for the next several years, BoB notwithstanding.

uhoh7
01-01-2006, 09:17 PM
As someone around from the first demo dogfights I'll give a short personal perspective.

Realism
is what sucked me in for sure. Oleg, with a few dead spaces has done well with the FMs, the heart of things. The avionics are too simple, I feel, and had great potential. The AI has always paled in comparison to the FM, which is too bad. The pits have been fine from the start. The game began as a ground attack thing, and when you first saw all those guys running as you strafed a column--wow--but besides some nice 3d work on the vehicles the ground has never really come to life. The ratings issue prevented it I guess. The terrain has not evolved--it started a state of the art, but now it's so so. Weather also had much unexploited potential.

Hardware
From a playability stand point the game has always puched the envelope with features no rig could handle. I built 4 machines altogether for il2 each state of the art. But none could handle the extreme features playably, like the water, cities, lots of planes, at the most vivid rez. Not that it wouldn't play well. It does.

online
90% of my hours were online, in coops, wars, and dogfights. Huge potential partly realized. In the good ol days you designed your missions, threw them up as host and people came. **** we had alot of fun. The great problem, never addressed was the inablity to respwan in a coop or to have moving ground objects in a DF, whihc would have been wonderfull. The one plane never built which would have really made things great was the german answer to the il2: the HS129. Flyable I mean.

Hyperlobby
Without it the game would never be were it's at but it's not the place it was. Used to be you could host and people would jump in. But now, besides that the game takes alot to host, HL is flooded with these dedicated servers just sitting there with no one in there. The few popular ones are still going, but they get stale, since the themes are so constant.

bob
of course i will buy it. but i think it will be another oleg vision for which they don't quite have the hardware.

all in all oleg has done great things. too many to list. Ubi helped in somes ways and really hurt in others.

I think what would really sell is a new il2 engine optimised for online play, where we could use all these planes, host ourselves, have a "living ground" iver which to fly. But it won't happen, i guess.

all the best to the many I've flown with over the years,

uhoh7

AKA_TAGERT
01-02-2006, 12:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
The thread was about what is REALLY happening with FB/PF Bearcat. Its not about what you WANT to have happen with it. I think one of the most levelheaded posts in here was the one by Chivas. History is history and facts are facts. Anyone can spin them anyway they want but the core truths remain the same. People will move to B.O.B. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>But history is history, and today is today, and the fact is that IL2-PF will not die within a month of the release of BoB, as I have already explained in my previous post.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
There are no FB or AEP or even PF servers. The reason is that when new versions come out that those are the ones people fly. Just as they will fly B.O.B. - and leave PF behind. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Nope! Not by a long shot.. because what your forgetting is FB is a sub set of AEP, thus you don€t loose anything by playing AEP, and PF merged has FB and AEP as a sub set, thus you don€t loose anything by playing PF merged. That is very different from what BoB will be. BoB will.. now pay att here.. BoB will NOT have all the planes and maps that FB, AEP, PF has, thus FB, AEP, PF is NOT a sub set of BoB. Long story short, your comparing apples an oranges, your analogy is flawed because FB, AEP, PF are not stand alone products (ok, PF, but you know) they are basically add-ons to FB, thus noboyd is playing FB, because FB is a part of PF merged. You SAVVY?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
It is the natural course of things. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>It was the natural course of things.. but we have evolved, thus the corse has changed direction.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
We may (will) get quite a bit of 'new' content before B.O.B. is released - as you are realistically looking at mid 2007 for a launch. Got to keep the pilots happy till then. Just good business.

However none of it will be groundbreaking nor will it significantly change the current sim's immersion and the experience we now have. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That is good news.. and bad, but not really bad in that we dont expect a total re-work of IL2-PF. Where as we do expect groundbreaking and significantly changed product with BoB, if it is not, than the move to BoB will be even slower.. at least until a few add-ons bring it up to speed in plane selections.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
So what is realistically happening is that there is a new sim on the way, those of us that are really interested in simming or are competitive (online) are looking towards that. For me splitting the onliners and offliners is a GREAT idea. I don't care what language is used to describe it, 'toggable settings' 'selectable installs' ect......... just so long as there is an online only version or for the politically correct "online optimized" version - then I personally will be happy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>If BoB does not have a good offline play, I think it will die on the vine very fast.. In that the only real interesting thing about BoB is the scenarios.. the day to day war.. So, if the campaign play and AI is not up to par, it will die like the other recent BoB sim did/is. The flip side is if it is only an online product, it may die there too, because with only about 10 planes to choose from.. folks will most likly stick with IL2-PF.. Unless again, there is something that is significantly better about the way BoB does online.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
The future is B.O.B. - PF will fade VERY quickly, As it should. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Disagree 100%

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
One of the reasons that it will not be around for 2-3 years as you predict is the simple fact that Oleg saw the wisdom in opening up certain aspects of the sim to 'user development' Just imagine what the mod community will be able to pump out for a new sim with a few months. Who would bother with PF then??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You say that as if it is a good thing! That user development is what killed CFS series.. Yes you can make 3D art that is neat.. But who is controlling the FMs? Online play will die quicker that COD2 with all the hacks once you see a B25 flying like an F16.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
Logic dictates that when something better comes along people will congregate towards it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Logic also dictates that when someone says logic dictates that they should stop and consider the FACT that the word BETTER is RELITIVE to who ever is uttering the word! For example, an eye candy sim with high poly counts, a nice map, but only 5 planes to fly is BETTER to some people (can you say LockOn?) but that definition of better is not everyones definition, some people perfer a bigger selection, even if it is not as detailed eye candy wise. You SAVVY?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
You love the old series great. I do to, However I am seeing more of the 'limitations' in the current engine/platform as I try to push the envelope of immersion and useability. To each their own. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>At least you got the last sentence correct.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
You can take the old sim, I am with Oleg and have my eye on whats to come,not what has been.

S~! and Happy New Year to all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Nobody is saying that we wont be playing BoB when it comes out.. or that we wont stop playing IL2-PF once BoB has 90% of the planes that IL2-PF has now after a few add-ons. All we are saying is that we dont agree with what you said.. That IL2-PF will die out within a moth of the release of BoB, for all the reasons I listed in my last post to you. Your inital theory is wrong.. not eveyone jumps day one, heck, there are people still playing EAW for crist sake, that alone blows your whole theory out of the water.

Lewicide
01-02-2006, 01:16 AM
There may be an additional factor that may reduce the turn over to BoB. The presence of starforce, a number of people will not purchase or run anything with SF on it. That may also include the PF/FB DVD. This will leave those people with the old series.

Would that mean SF and non SF version servers for online stuff?

Whether it is hardware limitations or starforce, I can't see PF/FB disappearing quickly.
Although hardware limitations are only an update away from a fix (I often bought sims I could not run at the time knowing I would uprate eventually) but SF is a permanent limitation.

HelSqnProtos
01-02-2006, 02:41 AM
S~!

Lewicide I am less concerned about starforce issue now than I originally was a few months ago. There was a post in here that I authored with regards to starforce that was read by many, including a few people who can make things happen in the sim. My take (and mine alone) is that after researching the different points that were brought up, starforce was not viewed in the best light. However , I repeat that is my own observation.

What Oleg chooses to do is anyone's guess. My personal belief is that Ubi does not mess with Oleg or the sim much.

I feel that anything that can be done to raise consciousness on the Starforce problem has been done and that Mr. Maddox has the information he needs to make a correct decision.


RE Tagert:

Tag, bro you got to take it easy on the quote button. I have no problem debating you, it just gives me a headache to scan through 27,000,000 lines of text. I am sure you could put your thoughts down into a few paragraphs.

If I grab the jist of your post it is that 'this time' history will not repeat itself and that not everyone will immediately move to B.O.B. -- thus going against the proven historical precedent set by every previous release of a new game version?

To paraphrase you "Disagree 100%" loooooooool

Any first year student of history will tell you that those who do not learn its lessons are doomed to repeat them.

My money is on B.O.B. and Oleg. It has been clearly stated in this forum many many times that the sim is now in the capable hands of Luthier. Oleg is working on B.O.B. -- Fact.

Happy New Year and keep up your good work with the testing. As for the rest, time will tell. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

GR142-Pipper
01-02-2006, 04:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
... I believe that the people who 'guide' the sim have seen the error of appeasing the dfers too much and will spend more time for the silent majority. Squadrons and Online War vets. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Honestly, do you really think that these folks represent the majority of game owners? The reason that I ask this is because squadron membership seems to account for only a small fraction of the sales figures for the software.

GR142-Pipper

neural_dream
01-02-2006, 05:13 AM
What's really happening with IL2/BoB? A number of the old simmers got understandably bored and have moved to LOMAC and the new Falcon and many new gamers who have bought PF from the bargain bins have realised what gem they lost by preferring CFS3 instead of Shturmovik 5 years ago and then forgetting about flight sims alltogether. Now they're all looking for FB and even worse for AEP, which is even harder to find.

The influx of user-made campaigns, utilities, art, guides is increasing steadily over the last year and Oleg's last 2-3 free addons have made FB/AEP/PF one of the most content-rich games in the history of gaming.

So, at the moment it's far from dead and has become a certain underdog classic.

Who cares about next year? It's gaming, it's not like buying a house and care about the property prices next year http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

OldMan____
01-02-2006, 06:05 AM
I personally could put this problem in parallel with latest SIMBIN car simmulators.


They had GTR, an enourmous success and now have GTL, much more advanced engine and so on. I tought GTR would not die because of fans of modern race cars, but if you look at thier forums an comunity.. it is almost DEAD!! I still play GTR as i Hate GTL cars, hate the lack of all complex telemetry and setup stuff, and consider that the money I spent in GTL was just lost money. But, the vast majority of players are imediatelly drawn by better graphics and a little bit better physics.


Think same will happen to BOB and FB. Only a minor (10-20% players will continue on FB/PF) and after first AEP like expansion (with lets say 41 and 42 planes)... then it will be almost completely gone.

neural_dream
01-02-2006, 06:23 AM
GTR wasn't an enormous success. Maybe enormous fun, but not enormous success in terms of sales. Quite the opposite. It has much more limited target group, so it's normal that the community is also ... well limited. Also, you're the first I see who considers the money spent in GTL as lost money. GTL is the equivalent of IL2/FB/AEP/PF. Not as popular as NFS and CFS3, but loved by their communities and excellent quality products.

carguy_
01-02-2006, 07:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:

Think same will happen to BOB and FB. Only a minor (10-20% players will continue on FB/PF) and after first AEP like expansion (with lets say 41 and 42 planes)... then it will be almost completely gone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I disagree although my point highly depends on my tastes.

If you look at IL2 history,it`s nothing like GTR vs GTL.
BoB will have 10 planes flyable.Here enteres my taste.I`d rather have 128flyable planes with slight FM/DM issues than 10 almost perfectly modeled flyables.
It all becomes reasonable when you pickup your jaw and see it in other way as Bearcat said.

People who think that certain plane fanboys will switch to other planes presented in BoB ,are simply mistaking.My favorite plane of all - the Me109G6/early`43 I find enough realistically modeled to give me enough of immersion.Until this plane becomes flyable in BoB,IL2v4.02(3,4 etc.) will be my premium game.Just because I get to fly my favorite plane.I also don`t think that a Mustang fanboy will happily switch to a SpitfireMKI.


Unlike GTR vs. GTL, BoB will(based on known info) be a maggot compared to merged IL2 because of sheer content disproportion which is expected to be BIG.

There is no sim that covers more theaters of operations than this one and BoB has looong way to make 1/2 of that.



My point is that people,independently of graphics or immersion,get bored.They will get bored with frickin Spit/Hurri vs Emil dogfights everyday.


In online wars we have.One map played through a month dies by itself cuz ppl get bored.We want new sets of planes,new challenges,new duels and stuff.

IL2m kills BoB with its set of game possibilities.

ElAurens
01-02-2006, 08:27 AM
All I can say with certainty about BoB is that the Boulton Paul Defiant will be far more successful online than it was in real life.

Be sure.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

AKA_TAGERT
01-02-2006, 09:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
RE Tagert:

Tag, bro you got to take it easy on the quote button. I have no problem debating you, it just gives me a headache to scan through 27,000,000 lines of text. I am sure you could put your thoughts down into a few paragraphs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>No, I really don€t, because if I did I would miss something that was said and not address it, as you have done here.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
If I grab the jist of your post it is that 'this time' history will not repeat itself and that not everyone will immediately move to B.O.B. -- thus going against the proven historical precedent set by every previous release of a new game version?

To paraphrase you "Disagree 100%" loooooooool </div></BLOCKQUOTE>See, perfect example, had you addressed what I said instead of your summary you would not have made this mistake. I clearly showed how history was based on flight sims of old, single stand alone games with no support or upgrades, thus once the *new* sim came it is was a no brainier to move to it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
Any first year student of history will tell you that those who do not learn its lessons are doomed to repeat them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Too bad you skip so many classes (like you did my quotes) than you might have learned that you can not apply history's apples to today's oranges.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
My money is on B.O.B. and Oleg. It has been clearly stated in this forum many many times that the sim is now in the capable hands of Luthier. Oleg is working on B.O.B. -- Fact. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Only fact here is that your wrong about IL2-PF dieing out within a moth of the release of BoB. There will be the initial spike as everyone runs out and buys n flys, but if you think people are bored of IL2-PF wait until the fly all 10 aircraft in BoB within the first day, they will be back in no time. Some will stay, but most will come back to IL2-PF until BoB gets a few add-ons under it's belt to bring the plane count up.

Keep in mind that my statements are based on something I alluded to in my first post to you, one you missed, wehre I said BoB will have to provide something revolutionary if it wants to take away and KEEP the IL2-PF players. And up to now, the only thing we know for sure if that BoB will have more eye candy and a better FM. That aint revolutionary! In that the FM's are at a point that the average joe can not tell what is going on anyways, and eye candy has never been the deciding factor in flight sims.. Quake and DOOM yes, but not flight sims and that last statement is a part of flight sim history that still applies here.

Enthor1
01-02-2006, 09:45 AM
I have no idea what is REALLY happening with BOB but I do know what is REALLY happening with IL2.

What is REALLY happening for me with IL2 is that every computer upgrade I have made since the beta on a P3 500 and Diamond Viper video card(on which it ran great.) it has got better and I am only up to P4 2.4 and FX5700 video card.

So, I expect that, given the quality of the product Oleg and Team have provided since day one of this franchise, that BOB will do just fine on whatever is midrange equipment on its release and each equipment upgrade till 2010 will contain pleasant surprizes.

On the subject of IL2 dying a horrible death 2 weeks after release of BOB: Given the choice of flying Hurricanes, Spitfires and 109s, which many love and which hold little interest for me or keeping my IL2s, Migs, anything beginning with P or B or C rap Plane,(the language filter filtered ****, how Elizabethan of it!) the choice is obvious.

I think there are more of me than there are of you HelSqnProtos and as for your "silent majority" I believe the real "silent majority of people interested in this sim/game are offliners who are not interested in Squadrons and Online Wars.

Online numbers reach 1,000 plus during weekend European primetime hours(say 6pm-12am GMT) and plunge to less than half that when Euros go to bed.

If Oleg used online numbers to define the success of this sim/game we would never see Olegs Battle of Britain.

As far as Starforce is concerned, I do not run any hardware that it seems to affect but given the fury surrounding it and the arrogant attitude of its makers I hope Ubisoft will consider not using it as protection.

It may cause some hesitation on the initial purchase of BOB.

Long Live IL2!

HelSqnProtos
01-02-2006, 11:03 AM
S~!

Throw those pom poms up a litle higher girls. Oleg may be watching. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

blindpugh
01-02-2006, 11:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
S~!

Wrong.

Time and time again the online community has had to upgrade, --- when B.O.B. arrives PF will be dead within a month. That is the way the online world works. Or do you see a lot of FB or AEP servers around?

The nature of this sim is that it is cutting edge. That means that you keep up or get left behind. For me I say -- Oleg bring the rigs to their knees. Tired of people on pentium 1.4 with 256 megs of ram and a geforce 2 thinking that they can fly this game online with 12 fps or god forbid host a competitive match.

Lets get a real hardware standard and stick to it. Those who can't do it cant do it. Simple. Games and technology move on, pilots must too. Simming is expensive. If your not prepared to upgrade regularly your in the wrong hobby. For every pilot you lose you can bring two new ones in if you make the promise of the game come true. You don't do that by dumming down the experience imho.

Personally I am MOST excited by news that the online and offline communities will be split. A version for each. Would love to see that. We don't have to hear them and they don't have to listen to us.

Bring on the B.O.B. S~! and goodbye to PF and its ancient engine/limitations. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>hey protos -that is the biggest load of selfish **** I have ever heard in my life -if you get your wish, Oleg will be out of business in 12 months and I seriously hope he has the sense to ignore the few and I mean the few people like you in this forum

Enthor1
01-02-2006, 12:59 PM
HelSqnProtos, your attitude is rapidly becoming unworthy of response but: I am sure Oleg knows exactly what he and his team have accomplished.

However many "pom pom" wavers there are and however many there are of people like you (I am not exactly sure where you stand, you say Olegs next sim will kill Olegs present sim, kind of "pom pom" waving, in one sentence then deride "pom pom" wavers in another.),matters not one whit.

Oleg and his crew have built a sim that will last well past his next endeavor and no matter how angry that makes you is of no import.

I am bemused by your tenacity defending your position, you could be just enjoying a great fishing trip or you may really think you are right.

If fishing, well done, if not, get over yourself and go get that HELL WAR up and running and good luck.

HelSqnProtos
01-02-2006, 04:40 PM
looooooooooooooool

well its so easy to do in here.


HELL WAR will be worth the wait.

Good Luck to you and your squad as well. Happy New Year.

AKA_TAGERT
01-02-2006, 04:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
S~!

Throw those pom poms up a litle higher girls. Oleg may be watching. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Those aint pom poms, Im simply tea baggin your face.

HelSqnProtos
01-02-2006, 04:46 PM
IBTL

AKA_TAGERT
01-02-2006, 06:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
IBTL </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I BEG for TEABAG LEASONS?

HelSqnProtos
01-02-2006, 06:15 PM
S~!

Stooping to sexual and genitalia references ------- wow you are smart Tagert ...... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Do you really want the mods to bust you AGAIN ??

Chivas
01-02-2006, 08:24 PM
Their are definitely people still flying the older prop flight sims, but judging by their forums usage its mostly people who enjoy creating mods. Most everyone has migrated to the better eye candy and FM, DM of the IL-2 series. Some were dragged kicking and screaming only leaving when most of their squad m8's left. We can argue endlessly about the quality of the IL-2 series, but the fact is most people have migrated here.

How long it takes for the same to happen with BOB will depend upon the quality of the new engine. Judging by the quality of his past work, there is little doubt in my mind that Oleg will provide a new benchmark in WW2 combat flight sim immersion. I think most of us want our combat flight sim to be realistic as possible and will move on to BOB. I will be one of the first. BOB and its add-ons will have their warts but thats the price you pay for flying this very complex combat sim from behind a desk.

Bearcat99
01-02-2006, 10:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
Their are definitely people still flying the older prop flight sims, but judging by their forums usage its mostly people who enjoy creating mods. Most everyone has migrated to the better eye candy and FM, DM of the IL-2 series. Some were dragged kicking and screaming only leaving when most of their squad m8's left. We can argue endlessly about the quality of the IL-2 series, but the fact is most people have migrated here.

How long it takes for the same to happen with BOB will depend upon the quality of the new engine. Judging by the quality of his past work, there is little doubt in my mind that Oleg will provide a new benchmark in WW2 combat flight sim immersion. I think most of us want our combat flight sim to be realistic as possible and will move on to BOB. I will be one of the first. BOB and its add-ons will have their warts but thats the price you pay for flying this very complex combat sim from behind a desk. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with you Chivas.... but I for one will still fly in FB.... There will be no Carriers.... no Ponies..... the maps wont be the same.... and FB no matter how good BoB is.... will not become obsolete in 90 days... just because something better comes out. It will take time... how long that takes depends on 1C and how fast they expand BoB. If the expansions come out once a year then it will still likely take at least 2-3 years before FB is totally dead..... I will save this tread though.. just so I can bump it a year after BoB is released..... just to see.

AKA_TAGERT
01-02-2006, 10:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
S~!

Stooping to sexual and genitalia references ------- wow you are smart Tagert ...... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Do you really want the mods to bust you AGAIN ?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Sexual?
Somone's mind is in the gutter!
Or
Dont you like tea?
Or
Are you a cup of joe kind of guy?
Nudge Nudge Wink Wink?

http://www.pythonsite.de/bbc/nudge.jpg

Say no more!
Bet your goer! eh? eh?

Chivas
01-02-2006, 10:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
Their are definitely people still flying the older prop flight sims, but judging by their forums usage its mostly people who enjoy creating mods. Most everyone has migrated to the better eye candy and FM, DM of the IL-2 series. Some were dragged kicking and screaming only leaving when most of their squad m8's left. We can argue endlessly about the quality of the IL-2 series, but the fact is most people have migrated here.

How long it takes for the same to happen with BOB will depend upon the quality of the new engine. Judging by the quality of his past work, there is little doubt in my mind that Oleg will provide a new benchmark in WW2 combat flight sim immersion. I think most of us want our combat flight sim to be realistic as possible and will move on to BOB. I will be one of the first. BOB and its add-ons will have their warts but thats the price you pay for flying this very complex combat sim from behind a desk. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with you Chivas.... but I for one will still fly in FB.... There will be no Carriers.... no Ponies..... the maps wont be the same.... and FB no matter how good BoB is.... will not become obsolete in 90 days... just because something better comes out. It will take time... how long that takes depends on 1C and how fast they expand BoB. If the expansions come out once a year then it will still likely take at least 2-3 years before FB is totally dead..... I will save this tread though.. just so I can bump it a year after BoB is released..... just to see. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yes Bear it should be interesting to see how it all pans out. I don't have enough time in my day to fly two sims, so I'll make due with the latest and greatest. Maybe if we are really lucky, BOB may be here by Christmas, but I'm not holding my breath. I can't believe I'm still enjoying this sim since the beta testing days.

~Salute~

HeinzBar
01-02-2006, 10:43 PM
S!,
There have been some valid points made in this thread. For myself, I can't see PFm dying a quick death. If over time, BoB evolves like FB, then FB will die, but this will take time.

The new engine, FM, DM, etc will be exciting and nice, but for me, I enjoy the variety of AC avaiable in PF. I honestly could care less about flying the BoB theater. Flying 109e, spitfire mk1, he111, ju87, hurricanes, etc. is just downright boring. I honestly can't see how this limited theater can compare to ground pounding found on the eastern front, the carrier operations found in PTO, airbattles over Bastogne, etc.

I will buy BoB to see the flight engine, but I'm 99.5% sure I won't fly it on a regular basis as that particular time period is of no interest to me. I'm also sure that there are alot of folks just like me when it comes to flying many fronts vs 1 very, very limited front. Again, if BoB evolves and expands w/ patches and addons, FB will die. However, it will be anything but a quick death.

HB

Chivas
01-02-2006, 11:33 PM
Ahhh Heinz....I can see you beating your way low across the channell toward France with a bomb under your Spit, lookin for a train to tear apart. Geez did I say Spit.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif..sorry Heinz...make that a 109, goin the other way.

Bearcat99
01-03-2006, 05:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
Yes Bear it should be interesting to see how it all pans out. I don't have enough time in my day to fly two sims, so I'll make due with the latest and greatest. Maybe if we are really lucky, BOB may be here by Christmas, but I'm not holding my breath. I can't believe I'm still enjoying this sim since the beta testing days.
~Salute~ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Therin lies the gist of the whole thing... I have been flying in FB since day one..... and I fly it just about every day for at least 30 minutes.... and I still enjoy it immensely. I have never had anything that was not warm and cuddly or essential to staying alive hold my intrest this long.... and on a daily basis. That is the strength of this series.. The only way FB will die 6 months after BoB is released is if in 6 months there are at least half the arenas and plane sets that are available in FB.. and that isnt going to happen. I think BoB will be a great sim. I think it will raise the bar higher still.... but FB is a classic. In 10 years people will talk about IL2 and FB the same way they talk about EAW today. I have been hearng nothing but praise for this sim since I have been simming hard.... and yet I have never seen it on the shelves. It was old when I started. It is basically an old "dead" sim.... but it's leigions of fans who have since moved on.. most of them here still sing it's praises to this day.. and some even still fly it. FB will be no different.

blindpugh
01-03-2006, 05:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
S~!
Wrong.
Time and time again the online community has had to upgrade, --- when B.O.B. arrives PF will be dead within a month. That is the way the online world works. Or do you see a lot of FB or AEP servers around?
The nature of this sim is that it is cutting edge. That means that you keep up or get left behind. For me I say -- Oleg bring the rigs to their knees. Tired of people on pentium 1.4 with 256 megs of ram and a geforce 2 thinking that they can fly this game online with 12 fps or god forbid host a competitive match.
Lets get a real hardware standard and stick to it. Those who can't do it cant do it. Simple. Games and technology move on, pilots must too. Simming is expensive. If your not prepared to upgrade regularly your in the wrong hobby. For every pilot you lose you can bring two new ones in if you make the promise of the game come true. You don't do that by dumming down the experience imho.
Personally I am MOST excited by news that the online and offline communities will be split. A version for each. Would love to see that. We don't have to hear them and they don't have to listen to us.
Bring on the B.O.B. S~! and goodbye to PF and its ancient engine/limitations. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont think so. There are hundreds of folks whose only limitation to flying in this sim is their hardware. They try it on their weak rigs.... of course it runs like cr@p so they pan the sim and go back to Warbirds... or Aces High... or CFS.... or wherever, or they start to plan to upgrade so that they can run it. This will always exist no matter what the standard. 1C has already set a very real, new hardware standard. That standard will be raised even higher with BoB. I wont be upgrading till BoB comes out since frankly... the only thing I need the power I now have for is FB. Even then though I will still fly in FB. As BoB expands.... like Oleg already said he wanted to do with it.... then FB will slowly fall away... for me at least, but in the beginning the same thing that kept people from dealing with IL2 (and remaining in say CFS1&2... which was the premier WW2 sim series before FB hit the market and the other online things I mentioned before) will limit BoB, and keep people flying in FB... but not keep BoB from growing. Those things will be mostly preference oriented.... no matter how good BoB is some guys will just want to do thier carrier thing... or fly thier Mustangs.... or not spend the money yet to upgrade till the prices come down a bit or whatever... I think 1C has learned a valuable lesson from thier IL2 experience... and they wont be making any MSCFS mistakes. Be sure.

The thing that made IL2 obsolete was the fact that there was new content in FB. If it had been IL2 with a slightly tweaked engine no one would have given it the time of day and we would all more than likely still be in IL2. If FB2.0 on had not been done we wouldnt have as many fliers here as we do now. If PF had not been released at all we wouldnt have as many folks as we do now..... The same will happen with BoB. I think that many of the folks who dont buy BoB right off will be looking at this series..... and enjoying what they have until they want to do it. I people will spend $29 for one Spitfire in CFS... or FS9... then I dont see this sim dieing anytime soon.. even after BoB.

FB is a great product that will be around and going pretty decently for at least 2 or 3 years after BoB is released if not longer - online and offline. The sheer quality of the sim alone will do that. In two years a guy with a 2-4 year old rig will be able to run this sim..... decently. Much like some other sims now... As I stated there are leigions of guys... who will experience the same thing we did when we came from XYZ sim to this one... after we pick up our jaws and get back in the chair we will dive in head first and start thinking of how we can improve things.

For what it is worth I hope the communities arent split.... I hope some of the options are settable for online or offline.. but I hope the two communities always remain interchangeable.

The fact that there arent many if any FB or AEP servers around has less to do with online vs offline stuff than the fact that most people who get a taste want the whole course..... Again.... a testament to the quality of the sim... Those who constantly find fault with it (Not talking about anyone in particular) just arent looking at it realistically. Thats why all the other WWII sim venues... are slowly fading away and 1C will eventually rule the roost unless something better comes along. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

blindpugh
01-03-2006, 06:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
S~!
Wrong.
Time and time again the online community has had to upgrade, --- when B.O.B. arrives PF will be dead within a month. That is the way the online world works. Or do you see a lot of FB or AEP servers around?
The nature of this sim is that it is cutting edge. That means that you keep up or get left behind. For me I say -- Oleg bring the rigs to their knees. Tired of people on pentium 1.4 with 256 megs of ram and a geforce 2 thinking that they can fly this game online with 12 fps or god forbid host a competitive match.
Lets get a real hardware standard and stick to it. Those who can't do it cant do it. Simple. Games and technology move on, pilots must too. Simming is expensive. If your not prepared to upgrade regularly your in the wrong hobby. For every pilot you lose you can bring two new ones in if you make the promise of the game come true. You don't do that by dumming down the experience imho.
Personally I am MOST excited by news that the online and offline communities will be split. A version for each. Would love to see that. We don't have to hear them and they don't have to listen to us.
Bring on the B.O.B. S~! and goodbye to PF and its ancient engine/limitations. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont think so. There are hundreds of folks whose only limitation to flying in this sim is their hardware. They try it on their weak rigs.... of course it runs like cr@p so they pan the sim and go back to Warbirds... or Aces High... or CFS.... or wherever, or they start to plan to upgrade so that they can run it. This will always exist no matter what the standard. 1C has already set a very real, new hardware standard. That standard will be raised even higher with BoB. I wont be upgrading till BoB comes out since frankly... the only thing I need the power I now have for is FB. Even then though I will still fly in FB. As BoB expands.... like Oleg already said he wanted to do with it.... then FB will slowly fall away... for me at least, but in the beginning the same thing that kept people from dealing with IL2 (and remaining in say CFS1&2... which was the premier WW2 sim series before FB hit the market and the other online things I mentioned before) will limit BoB, and keep people flying in FB... but not keep BoB from growing. Those things will be mostly preference oriented.... no matter how good BoB is some guys will just want to do thier carrier thing... or fly thier Mustangs.... or not spend the money yet to upgrade till the prices come down a bit or whatever... I think 1C has learned a valuable lesson from thier IL2 experience... and they wont be making any MSCFS mistakes. Be sure.

The thing that made IL2 obsolete was the fact that there was new content in FB. If it had been IL2 with a slightly tweaked engine no one would have given it the time of day and we would all more than likely still be in IL2. If FB2.0 on had not been done we wouldnt have as many fliers here as we do now. If PF had not been released at all we wouldnt have as many folks as we do now..... The same will happen with BoB. I think that many of the folks who dont buy BoB right off will be looking at this series..... and enjoying what they have until they want to do it. I people will spend $29 for one Spitfire in CFS... or FS9... then I dont see this sim dieing anytime soon.. even after BoB.

FB is a great product that will be around and going pretty decently for at least 2 or 3 years after BoB is released if not longer - online and offline. The sheer quality of the sim alone will do that. In two years a guy with a 2-4 year old rig will be able to run this sim..... decently. Much like some other sims now... As I stated there are leigions of guys... who will experience the same thing we did when we came from XYZ sim to this one... after we pick up our jaws and get back in the chair we will dive in head first and start thinking of how we can improve things.

For what it is worth I hope the communities arent split.... I hope some of the options are settable for online or offline.. but I hope the two communities always remain interchangeable.

The fact that there arent many if any FB or AEP servers around has less to do with online vs offline stuff than the fact that most people who get a taste want the whole course..... Again.... a testament to the quality of the sim... Those who constantly find fault with it (Not talking about anyone in particular) just arent looking at it realistically. Thats why all the other WWII sim venues... are slowly fading away and 1C will eventually rule the roost unless something better comes along. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>[/QUOTE]hmmn the way I see it -is BoB was only a small part in a very big war-appx 9 months -all I can say is its got be something special to hold the interest of the simming community for as long as FB-AEP-PF has-I rest my case

HeinzBar
01-03-2006, 08:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
Ahhh Heinz....I can see you beating your way low across the channell toward France with a bomb under your Spit, lookin for a train to tear apart. Geez did I say Spit.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif..sorry Heinz...make that a 109, goin the other way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

You know me Chiv, I've always been a fw190 man and always will be. Until the butcher bird is included, BoB will be 2nd best, be sure http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

HB

Chivas
01-03-2006, 11:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">hmmn the way I see it -is BoB was only a small part in a very big war-appx 9 months -all I can say is its got be something special to hold the interest of the simming community for as long as FB-AEP-PF has-I rest my case </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blindpugh...IL-2/FB/AEP/PF is a classic series only to be bested by Olegs BOB/Malta and Med/Eastern Front/Western Front/Pacific Theater. The order of which is still undecided. The BOB map will consist of Lower half of England and a small part of the east coast of Europe. Parts of France not sure about Belgium. I've also heard reference of a third party Battle of Poland. The first installment will include BOB, Battle of France(another third party I believe). Protecting English shores and rhubarbs into France, should keep me busy until the Med is released.

As you can see BOB is just a start to a series that should be at least the equal and probably more comprehensive{at least in the amount of theaters}than the IL-2 series.

We are a lucky bunch of coconuts. All we have to do is send Oleg a few dollars once and awhile for years of entertainment. I can't think of a better bang for my buck. Nothing beats it. We also have these forums to complain about it. You know how we all love to complain. It doesn't cost anything and takes little effort. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Kapteeni
01-04-2006, 02:58 AM
I think that the only way in the future BoB will survive = sell, is to give users a possibility to do mods, ie. new mapmaking tools with custom terrains, objects (not aeroplanes= too hard),weather and new scripted campaigns. Playin just Battle of B. is not gonna last long, so Olegs gotta give us some maps from other fronts too. (Immersion is the thing that sells. Players in general want adrenalin in there brains or ***s or where ever.) MS FS is good ecxample. Loads of addons for free/payable. So what i really is looking for is rally good FMB with possibility to create Fog of war. I write this because i come from Finland and i know that we have a little change that Oleg will ever do Forgotten Battles again. I think that he concentrate to western front http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif P.S. Thank you Oleg/team for the best sim ever and i hope that we will have as good community in BOB that we have now in FB/PF. I`ve learn so much in ww2 and aviation with ya m8s! (Sorry about broken english)

GR142-Pipper
01-04-2006, 02:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
Yes Bear it should be interesting to see how it all pans out. I don't have enough time in my day to fly two sims, so I'll make due with the latest and greatest. Maybe if we are really lucky, BOB may be here by Christmas, but I'm not holding my breath. I can't believe I'm still enjoying this sim since the beta testing days.
~Salute~ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Therin lies the gist of the whole thing... I have been flying in FB since day one..... and I fly it just about every day for at least 30 minutes.... and I still enjoy it immensely. I have never had anything that was not warm and cuddly or essential to staying alive hold my intrest this long.... and on a daily basis. That is the strength of this series.. The only way FB will die 6 months after BoB is released is if in 6 months there are at least half the arenas and plane sets that are available in FB.. and that isnt going to happen. I think BoB will be a great sim. I think it will raise the bar higher still.... but FB is a classic. In 10 years people will talk about IL2 and FB the same way they talk about EAW today. I have been hearng nothing but praise for this sim since I have been simming hard.... and yet I have never seen it on the shelves. It was old when I started. It is basically an old "dead" sim.... but it's leigions of fans who have since moved on.. most of them here still sing it's praises to this day.. and some even still fly it. FB will be no different. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Although I'm sure that BoB will be a good product, it's interesting that the developers chose to use Battle of Britain as their introductory venue. I agree with Heinzbar that this period/planeset holds little interest for me. It seems to have made better sense (financially as well as operationally) to introduce a later war planeset as well an Eastern or Western Front venue. This would have hastened migration from PF to BoB, something which I'm sure that the developers (and UbiSoft) would welcome.

...just my take.

GR142-Pipper

Chivas
01-04-2006, 04:50 PM
I agree that there seems to be alot of interest in the later model aircraft. I believe Oleg plans to more or less start at the beginning of the War and expand the fronts as they occured. Atleast he has stated that the Med would probably follow the Battle Of Britain.

The other consideration was BOB required fewer aircraft to be modeled. Which would make it easier to model and test the new engine.

My only concern is people being able to steal the product over the net which could easily kill the whole project.

ImpStarDuece
01-04-2006, 05:04 PM
I actually think that the BoB period makes sense if you look at the evolution potential of the game.

Take the BoB planeset. Its the perfect building platform. The planeset makes it very easy to develope into other theatres.

Instead of doing the crazy jump around in theatres and periods that Il2/FB/AEP/PF did, my feeling is the BoB should be more graduated in nature. One theatre period (i.e Britian, June-December 1940 or Italy, August-February 1943-44), should be done to completion with appropriate planes and maps. Once finished the planesets should easily provide a solid base for future theatres and periods.

So the BoB planeset feeds into German and British participation in France and Norway, and German particiption in Poland.

So, say after you do BoB in its completion, say you step back to May 10, 1940. All you have to do now is model the French aircraft and some assorted others. You already have the majority of British, German and Italian aircraft that were there, but now you fill out the theatre properly.

The basic idea would work like this: Each theatre is a complete package that can functions on its own. You have all the right aircraft, the right maps and the right objects for a limited time and place. Then every 4-8 months, a new theatre package is released. This expands on the previous maps/aircraft and in doing so provides another complete theatre. Every 12-18 months or so, a much larger expansion is released, adding a completely new theater to build on.

So you could go: BoB 1940---&gt; Battle of France 1940 ----&gt; Battle of Poland 1939 ----&gt; ??Spanish Civil War 1936??

but you could also expand like this: BoB 1940 ----&gt; Nth Africa 1940-1941 ---&gt; France 1941 ---&gt; Nth Africa/Med 1941

and so on and so forth until you have to make a large jump in planeset and mapset, like the Eastern Front or Pacific Front. Then you do the same thing; build a solid, thorough core and then expand it gradually to encompass the whole theatre and period.

MrQBerrt
01-05-2006, 09:25 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

GR142-Pipper
01-05-2006, 12:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
Instead of doing the crazy jump around in theatres and periods that Il2/FB/AEP/PF did, my feeling is the BoB should be more graduated in nature..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That's great as long as it makes money and pays the bills. If I wanted to make more money initially with this game (and let's face it, this is a business), I not so sure I'd start with BoB but would go with late war aircraft and fill in as needed from there. I'm sure that this issue has been discussed thoroughly by the developers and they're deliberate in what they're doing. I just hope they're not making a mistake as you only get one chance to make a product introduction.

GR142-Pipper

Bearcat99
01-05-2006, 12:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
Yes Bear it should be interesting to see how it all pans out. I don't have enough time in my day to fly two sims, so I'll make due with the latest and greatest. Maybe if we are really lucky, BOB may be here by Christmas, but I'm not holding my breath. I can't believe I'm still enjoying this sim since the beta testing days.
~Salute~ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Therin lies the gist of the whole thing... I have been flying in FB since day one..... and I fly it just about every day for at least 30 minutes.... and I still enjoy it immensely. I have never had anything that was not warm and cuddly or essential to staying alive hold my intrest this long.... and on a daily basis. That is the strength of this series.. The only way FB will die 6 months after BoB is released is if in 6 months there are at least half the arenas and plane sets that are available in FB.. and that isnt going to happen. I think BoB will be a great sim. I think it will raise the bar higher still.... but FB is a classic. In 10 years people will talk about IL2 and FB the same way they talk about EAW today. I have been hearng nothing but praise for this sim since I have been simming hard.... and yet I have never seen it on the shelves. It was old when I started. It is basically an old "dead" sim.... but it's leigions of fans who have since moved on.. most of them here still sing it's praises to this day.. and some even still fly it. FB will be no different. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Although I'm sure that BoB will be a good product, it's interesting that the developers chose to use Battle of Britain as their introductory venue. I agree with Heinzbar that this period/planeset holds little interest for me. It seems to have made better sense (financially as well as operationally) to introduce a later war planeset as well an Eastern or Western Front venue. This would have hastened migration from PF to BoB, something which I'm sure that the developers (and UbiSoft) would welcome.

...just my take.

GR142-Pipper </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To tell the truth Pip The BoB holds little intrest to me as well.. but that wont stop me from pre ordering it at EB Games and picking it up on the day it is released. I am in it for the simming. I know already that 1C makes a good product... I have seen all their sims... so when they come out with a new one.... I dont care where it is... I would buy it regardless because I know it will be done to the best standards that 1C could achieve... Oleg has already said that BoB is just a starting point.... that to me is really all I need to hear. Even if my rig can't quite handle it.. I would rather put a few bucks in 1Cs pockets and buy the sim upon it's release, rather than wait for the other theaters to open up... At least that way I can do my part totry to make sure that 1C is around to contimnue making sims. When I look at all the sims that were ever made.... then I look at all the ones i bought..... then I look at all the ones I still fly... no brainer for me.

GR142-Pipper
01-05-2006, 01:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
To tell the truth Pip The BoB holds little intrest to me as well.. but that wont stop me from pre ordering it at EB Games and picking it up on the day it is released. I am in it for the simming. I know already that 1C makes a good product... I have seen all their sims... so when they come out with a new one.... I dont care where it is... I would buy it regardless because I know it will be done to the best standards that 1C could achieve... Oleg has already said that BoB is just a starting point.... that to me is really all I need to hear. Even if my rig can't quite handle it.. I would rather put a few bucks in 1Cs pockets and buy the sim upon it's release, rather than wait for the other theaters to open up... At least that way I can do my part totry to make sure that 1C is around to contimnue making sims. When I look at all the sims that were ever made.... then I look at all the ones i bought..... then I look at all the ones I still fly... no brainer for me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I hope your view is the majority view and it likely will be for people like us who are familiar with 1c's products. The question is, given our market niche, will BoB be interesting enough to new purchasers? I'm not sure that the remaining installed base alone is sufficient to sustain a new product. In any case, I hope it's successful for the developer, Ubisoft, and those of us who enjoy playing it. Time will tell.

GR142-Pipper

Chivas
01-05-2006, 08:30 PM
I believe they decided on the Battle Of Britain because its one of the most recognized air battles of the second world war. They already have us guys who would rather fly the 190 or P51 in their back pocket. Battle of Britain will have more World Wide appeal to start things off.

msalama
01-06-2006, 03:00 AM
Hey, you Yanks aren't that interested in BoB, just as we Euros aren't in PTO. Isn't this just natural?

But then again, Oleg DOES run a risk of losing a big chunk of money if he publishes something that doesn't appeal to you guys, the U.S. consumer market being the biggest in the world and all... So what would YOU do if you were the guy then?

GR142-Pipper
01-06-2006, 03:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by msalama:
Hey, you Yanks aren't that interested in BoB, just as we Euros aren't in PTO. Isn't this just natural?

But then again, Oleg DOES run a risk of losing a big chunk of money if he publishes something that doesn't appeal to you guys, the U.S. consumer market being the biggest in the world and all... So what would YOU do if you were the guy then? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually, I'm American and I much prefer the Eastern Front first, the Western Front second, and (as modeled in this game) the PTO a distant third. I guessing here but I'd say that as some would exchange the Western Front with the Eastern Front in the first and second place slots, most would have the PTO remaining last.

What I find interesting is that I'm aware of no polling done by Oleg/1c to the installed customer base soliciting input on this issue. It could be that the Eastern/Western/Pacific locales were already "taken" with the existing product and they were looking for a "new" venue to introduce the new game with. It's the only reason for picking BoB that I can think of that makes much sense.

GR142-Pipper

msalama
01-06-2006, 04:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What I find interesting is that I'm aware of no polling done by Oleg/1c to the installed customer base soliciting input on this issue. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, and no wonder because there has never been a single poll concerning the issue. And that's pretty weird indeed... Heck, if I was a businessman of any sort I'd be _very_ interested in finding out the major preferences of my customer base!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It's the only reason for picking BoB that I can think of that makes much sense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm... well personal preferences aside, such as you liking the Ostfront first (me too hands down, as you can deduce from my sig) I'd say that there's nothing much to say because we really don't _know_ anything, do we? I find the theatre (BoB) very interesting myself, but the great majority of combat fliers might find it incredibly boring for all we know. Except that we don't, because as you yourself noticed there's never been a single ruddy poll to find that out... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

ElAurens
01-06-2006, 05:30 AM
Actually BoB makes a lot of sense.

While it is true the the United States is a very big market, it is not a big market for hard core simulation of any kind. (MSFS is not a simulation IMHO, it is a flight training tool that they happen to sell on the open market). I doubt that the US makes up 20% of total IL2 series sales, so a European scenario makes perfect sense.

I'm looking forward to it, so my Boulton Paul Defiant, with teh uber turret gunner of death can pwnz you all.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

msalama
01-06-2006, 05:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...with teh uber turret gunner of death can pwnz you all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

BAH!!! You wouldn't pwnz ME if I flew Blue, which I don't, so you can't. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But yeah, the theatre is very much to my liking as well... so I personally cannot wait to beat the shiz out of t3h Hun with me Hurri http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

csThor
01-06-2006, 06:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What I find interesting is that I'm aware of no polling done by Oleg/1c to the installed customer base soliciting input on this issue. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're grossly overestimating the importance and number of forum/website visitors in relation to the total number of customers. I remember someone (either Oleg or some long-gone Ubi representative) saying that online (meaning players and active posters) were some 5-10% of the total customer base. That's hardly what I'd call a number worth considering too much.

It might be true, that the BoB holds little interest for most people just because of the limited plane pool, timeframe and location (plus the lack of direct US involvement). But quite frankly a late-war scenario (or Eastern Front or Med) would require far more objects and planes. This would also mean less development time for the core of the sim (FM, DM, Gunnery, interface) and might carry the errors of the Il-2 line over (too many planes, strange FM, too much emphasize on online dogfights and too little on offline gameplay).

WWMaxGunz
01-06-2006, 09:53 AM
Fewer planes (models) done to much greater detail and THEN they chose the theatre.

So now there's people who discuss beaucoup planes like the models grow themselves.
Don't worry Oleg, just drop a few seeds! Simple!

DuxCorvan
01-06-2006, 12:12 PM
There are several reasons for Oleg choosing BOB as initial scenario:

1) It's a very popular one, raised to legendary status by movies and WW2 literature. To be true, out of our world of WW2 air warfare fanatics, in the international market, most people don't know a word about Fw190s, Tempests or Dauntless. But everybody knows Spitfires and Stukas.

2) It's a very limited scenario -both in time and geographically- which allows to make a reasonable reproduction of the scenario without huge amounts of planes, maps and objects.

3) Events are very well documented. You can follow easily the air units involved in the conflict, the people and types that formed them, when and where they were engaged in combat, what the targets were and what happened day after day, etc. Very useful in order to construct a plausible campaign.

4) Planes are also very well documented. Aircraft from that time were very well known -it was right before of strange experiments and all that late war top secret stuff. Many examples are still in the museums all over UK and Europe, and there are many publications about the Battle and the types involved in it. You can reconstruct an Emil, a Spitfire Mk.I or a Hurricane to the tiniest detail, and even rare stuff was not so rare and hard to access as Japanese or Soviet stuff.

5) European stuff has not PF's copyright issues -yet. (Crossing fingers).

6) If you really want to make a broad WW2 air warfare product, you have to start in some place. Eastern Front had to be discarded because Western software distributors wouldn't surely be interested in something like "IL-2 Sturmovik II"

msalama
01-06-2006, 12:55 PM
Good points there, Thor and Dux... But the thing is who really KNOWS, including Oleg?

Yeah, I do. 42 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

WWMaxGunz
01-06-2006, 01:21 PM
When Oleg announced the new game would be around the BoB he had just gotten back from
England for an IL2/FB thing and had spent time in at least one museum there and with
at least one historic society, IIRC. I'd say he's probably gotten immense cooperation
as opposed to demands for money just to have the planes at all! Why we don't have some
planes and theatres is due to corporate d-heads who put a latch on our history.

Sharkey888
01-06-2006, 02:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
Why we don't have some
planes and theatres is due to corporate d-heads who put a latch on our history. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or corporate d-heads who don't know foreign copyright law http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Seriously I still think the Med was the way to start this new sim.

msalama
01-06-2006, 05:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Seriously I still think the Med was the way to start this new sim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No it ruddy well ain't. As regards history, well, if you want to have continuity BoB _is_ actually where you start isn't it?

But as regards general customer satisfaction... well who knows?

WWMaxGunz
01-06-2006, 10:02 PM
Ha. Should start in Spain. 109 and Henshel vs I-16 and what? Throw in 1 or 2 bombers.
Next Poland and another friend the Pzl. Did Poland field any bombers? Still, + a bomber.
France would be a much bigger step, at least 2/3 French fighters and Hurricane, and a bomber.
BoB would need Spitfire and at least one Brit long range bomber.
The Med is too big for one only. Early and Late Med at least if you include North Africa.
Channel fights would need newer model Spits, FW's and 109's and a Typhoon and... bombers.

4 to 6 months? How about 1+ years each? There is more detail by far and it all must be
as right as possible, otherwise we get immersion-killing problems. If they have time to
do it more right the first time then we won't need much patching. And it will reduce
stress of too many hours as such a series is produced, easier as they go.

Things I'd like to see and it would help on the make and patch trail. One Flight Engine
for all the series, every game not changing and planes released that don't need tweaks.
One Damage System for all the series. How some plane of any disk flies or fights being
the same no matter how many extras are added. Possibly that theatres, planes and objects
of all disks in the series are not required to be loaded unless you are going onto a server
that uses them. If the game engine is always the same then that engine can be put on
every disc released and should be able to load and use planes and objects from any other.
Each one both standalone and addon.

Sharkey888
01-06-2006, 10:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by msalama:

But as regards general customer satisfaction... well who knows? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


That's all I am worried about! If the initial game-BOB-does not do well, I don't see all of our other dreams coming true http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Will a BOB game even sell in Russia? And with Ubi's lackluster support of the series.......I'm starting to worry myself!!!

WWMaxGunz
01-07-2006, 10:17 AM
When is BoB expected out according to Maddox Games, not forum members?

IL2 original, a much lesser product than BoB was FOUR YEARS before initial release.

Chivas
01-07-2006, 11:44 AM
I think Oleg started work on BOB in 2003, but the work was heavy curtailed by Pacific Fighters. So a good guess would be end of 2006 till the middle of 2007, with delays to the end of 2007. He does have much fewer aircraft to model and basicly only one map for BOB, albeit much more extensively modeled aircraft and map.

BFawlty
01-07-2006, 06:19 PM
As an American I could care less what the theatre of operations is as long as it is well done. And as an offliner only, the immersion and campaign are what I will be watching the reviews for. PF will not go away fast for me simply because of the great campaigns being created by this community. There are already enough to keep me flying for quite awhile.

BF

msalama
01-08-2006, 01:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As an American I could care less what the theatre of operations is as long as it is well done. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a good position I'd say http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And yep, me neither now that you mention it, although I of course like everyone else have my own preferences. But you're right: as long as it's well done the basic thrill and enjoyment is definitely there...

darkhorizon11
01-09-2006, 07:47 PM
The main thing is marketing. Even non-aviation enthusiasts are generally familiar with the BoB. The whole never has so much been owed by so many to so few phrase and what it means is known throughout many circles and although many minute details such as Italy's involvement and the chronicagical order of events isn't well known, the battle is familiar.

Compare this with Kursk, Tarento, Ploesti and Romania etc., there all equally important as the BoB in the European war. But not very well known, its all about appeal.

Either way yes, I think they should tackle one theater and a time and do it up thoroughly.

The three main things I'm looking forward too:

1. Better AI and realistic air traffic procedures.

2. Better flight models.

3. MUCH larger maps, hopefully somewhere around 700x700km average.

http://www.brooksart.com/bobmap.jpg

This is probably a little to wishful but would be awesome (although maybe shifted a little more west, Belfast isn't as important as more of the Netherlands and Belguim.

Chivas
01-09-2006, 08:54 PM
I know that Oleg talked about have one big map, but I doubt that it goes as high as Liverpool and I'm sure it didn't go as high as Glasgow. Other than that it will be close to the map your showing. Thats what I remember from Olegs posts in much early threads on BOB.

darkhorizon11
01-10-2006, 05:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by msalama:
Hey, you Yanks aren't that interested in BoB, just as we Euros aren't in PTO. Isn't this just natural?

But then again, Oleg DOES run a risk of losing a big chunk of money if he publishes something that doesn't appeal to you guys, the U.S. consumer market being the biggest in the world and all... So what would YOU do if you were the guy then? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please don't make huge generalizations like that. I'm an American and the Western Front including the Battle of Britain is one of my favorite scenarios.

Many Americans like Billy Fiske fought and died in the Battle of Britains along side the British.

ruxtmp
01-11-2006, 06:31 AM
The map shown in Darkhorizon's post is what I would hope to see. If it only covers up to Liverpool that would be acceptable but it needs to expand into France and Belgium far enough so you can have bombers taking off from their bases.

msalama
01-11-2006, 10:07 AM
Hey, sure, generalization it was and thus by no means applicable to everyone! But still, who knows what majority of youse guys prefer without asking?

Wouldn't matter if yours was a small market, but as we know it sure ain't...

notamuppet
01-11-2006, 10:42 AM
I love carriers (Im a Brit) but I am very interested in what Olegs up to. I expect that it will be stunning.

ElAurens
01-11-2006, 11:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by msalama:
Wouldn't matter if yours was a small market, but as we know it sure ain't... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Umm, in terms of sales for the IL2 series it is a quite small market, making up perhaps no more than 20% of total sales.

I'm a Yank that cannot wait for BoB.

You will all bow down before the might of my Defiant!!!!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

msalama
01-11-2006, 12:48 PM
Yeah, but the _potential_ market over there over the drink is huge anyways, so if _I_ was da mon I'd ask ye buggers a thing or two fer sure!

But then again, what do I know http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif And prolly most of the sales are/will be over here anyways...

GR142-Pipper
01-11-2006, 09:26 PM
One item that isn't discussed much as far as I can tell is connection requirements. It's probably a sure thing that a pretty beefy PC would be required to properly run BoB but it's also a safe bet that a "better-than-modem" requirement will likely exist. That single issue could well determine where the sweetspot of the sales demographic will likely be.

...just a thought

GR142-Pipper

HelSqnProtos
01-11-2006, 09:37 PM
NO game today is made with 'modem' network optimization in mind.

The facts are that all modern games have their netcode designed around broadband users.

Bearcat99
01-11-2006, 10:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by msalama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What I find interesting is that I'm aware of no polling done by Oleg/1c to the installed customer base soliciting input on this issue. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, and no wonder because there has never been a single poll concerning the issue. And that's pretty weird indeed... Heck, if I was a businessman of any sort I'd be _very_ interested in finding out the major preferences of my customer base!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

WRONG!!!!! The polls were actually done a few years ago... before PF was even done... here (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/99510856/) and the Med was the most requested.. followed by the PTO... but BoB is an early enough place to start a good thing rolling. Spain was 36-39.. BoB was 40... And like so many said.. the name recognition is good. IMO one thing that will really sink or soar the sim is how scalable it is and how soon the add ons are in the pike. Most likely though the OOoOOoOooo factor will be through the roof and we all will start another round of upgrades and such.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Thats why I just refuse to do any more major upgrades till BoB is released since my current PC runs FB well.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by msalama:
Hey, you Yanks aren't that interested in BoB, just as we Euros aren't in PTO. Isn't this just natural?

But then again, Oleg DOES run a risk of losing a big chunk of money if he publishes something that doesn't appeal to you guys, the U.S. consumer market being the biggest in the world and all... So what would YOU do if you were the guy then? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Like I said for me it is all about the simming.. and I know 1C makes a killer sim.... so he can already count on my $$$... If it is a good sim no matter where it was and regardless of what so many say.... it will be snatched up.. you can believe it.

Where would I start? If not BoB then Spain... then BoB then The Med... and that (Spain) doesnt intrest me much either... but one thing I have been taught very well by 1C... just because it doesnt interest me now doesnt mean it wont.. after all... I wasnt "interested" in the eastern front either.. for what that is worth ..... look at me now. My intrest in the theater is secondary to the sim. Truth be told i wasnt all that interested in the PTO either.... thats why I had CFS2 but hardly ever flew it.. I just prefered CFS1.... until I got IL2. No matter where it is.. it will be mine by day 1.

msalama
01-12-2006, 12:54 AM
There _was_ a poll? OK man, I stand corrected http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But you guys are probably right in that the theatre is secondary to the overall quality... Heck, I'll fly anything anywhere meself too as long as the planes are good and the environment interesting!

That said, the Spanish civil war would be a cool - and logical - starting theatre http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bearcat99
01-12-2006, 04:27 AM
Yeah and considering that 1C already has a rep for supporting it's product... heck man.... they could stat with the Wright brothers and thepromise of going through the timeline would keep people coming back.. LOL..... I think one of the things that will really sell BoB is 1Cs rep and the fact that thye did it once with IL2... IU wondr if they already have a lot more work done as far as add ons and such.. and will just have to release it when the time comes.

neural_dream
01-12-2006, 06:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by msalama:
That said, the Spanish civil war would be a cool - and logical - starting theatre http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That would be so good.
Start with SCW which doesn't need many maps and many planes to be COMPLETE. Then go to Poland and France, again make it COMPLETE. In 5 years we'd have the COMPLETE and DEFINITIVE WW2 airwarfare simulator.

GR142-Pipper
01-12-2006, 11:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
NO game today is made with 'modem' network optimization in mind.

The facts are that all modern games have their netcode designed around broadband users. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>As an aside, if this is truly a sophisticated game, then allow no modems at all; REQUIRE a broadband connection. It's good to know that the game is being crafted with broadband in mind. I wasn't aware that this was the case but I'm glad to hear that it is.

GR142-Pipper

GR142-Pipper
01-12-2006, 11:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
WRONG!!!!! The polls were actually done a few years ago... before PF was even done... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Respectfully, relying on a poll done "a few YEARS ago" is hardly confidence-building from a "knowing your market" point of view. Polling the customer base should have continued to occur at least on an annual basis to reinforce to correctness of the introductory venue or to provide information to the contrary. Relying on poll results that old is tantamount to having done no polling at all because the results of any poll are a perishable.

Do you seriously think that if the customer base were polled that BoB would have been the winning introductory venue? I sure don't.

GR142-Pipper

csThor
01-13-2006, 12:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As an aside, if this is truly a sophisticated game, then allow no modems at all; REQUIRE a broadband connection. It's good to know that the game is being crafted with broadband in mind. I wasn't aware that this was the case but I'm glad to hear that it is. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I doubt this idea has a chance. After all Maddox Games' "home market" is the states of the former USSR and I doubt that broadband has such a market share over there.

Bearcat99
01-16-2006, 06:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
Respectfully, relying on a poll done "a few YEARS ago" is hardly confidence-building from a "knowing your market" point of view. Polling the customer base should have continued to occur at least on an annual basis to reinforce to correctness of the introductory venue or to provide information to the contrary. Relying on poll results that old is tantamount to having done no polling at all because the results of any poll are a perishable.
Do you seriously think that if the customer base were polled that BoB would have been the winning introductory venue? I sure don't.
GR142-Pipper </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope... I think The Med would have won... like it did in the last poll.... and then of course you would have had the dozen or so saying.... "Finish the P.T.O..." but I am pretty sure the Med would have won out. Personally I think the former pol is still valid.... infact I will make my own poll in the GD just to see. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Bearcat99
01-17-2006, 06:21 AM
Here (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/3221051993/showpollresults/Y) are the results of that poll..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

KOM.Nausicaa
01-17-2006, 08:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
[QUOTE]Many Americans like Billy Fiske fought and died in the Battle of Britains along side the British. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nothing against you, and great that you love the BOB theatre, but above statement is incorrect. The total number of american pilots fighting in BoB was 7. Seven pilots, from which one was killed (Fiske). They where thus the third lowest nationality in numbers, right after Southern Rodesian (2), Jamaican (1) and Palestinian (1). Canadian presence was f. ex 90 (20 killed) South African 21 (9 killed) Czech 86 (8 killed). The low American presence illustrates directly how little the american public was willing at the time to get involved in what was called "a european problem".
Of course this numbers refer to what is called "The Battle of Britain" and the timeline which defines it, namely July 10th, 1940 to October 31st, 1940.

Best,

Nausicaa

Sharkey888
01-17-2006, 08:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KOM.Nausicaa:
Nothing against you, and great that you love the BOB theatre, but above statement is incorrect. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

While you are correct, wasn't Canada, S. Rhodesia, Palastine, Jamaica and S. Africa part of the "Empire"?

We know why the Czech's and Polish were fighting.

I don't think the UK solicited fighter pilots from around the world to fight in the BOB. It took alot of courage to volunteer to fight in a War that the US public did not know or want to be a part in! Just as people volunteered in the Spanish Civil War or in Finland, they are to be commended http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

darkhorizon11
01-21-2006, 03:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KOM.Nausicaa:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
[QUOTE]Many Americans like Billy Fiske fought and died in the Battle of Britains along side the British. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nothing against you, and great that you love the BOB theatre, but above statement is incorrect. The total number of american pilots fighting in BoB was 7. Seven pilots, from which one was killed (Fiske). They where thus the third lowest nationality in numbers, right after Southern Rodesian (2), Jamaican (1) and Palestinian (1). Canadian presence was f. ex 90 (20 killed) South African 21 (9 killed) Czech 86 (8 killed). The low American presence illustrates directly how little the american public was willing at the time to get involved in what was called "a european problem".
Of course this numbers refer to what is called "The Battle of Britain" and the timeline which defines it, namely July 10th, 1940 to October 31st, 1940.

Best,

Nausicaa </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't ussually bother quoting and doing all kinds of research to post. But one is still one death and there were Americans there, and not necessarily pilots, there could have been ground crews too, no one can deny there contribution to the war effort. And I still think most Americans are interested in this theater.

Heck, they're supposed to make a Tom Cruise movie about it! Not that I expect much from that but still...

F19_Orheim
01-22-2006, 05:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
S~!

Wrong.

Time and time again the online community has had to upgrade, --- when B.O.B. arrives PF will be dead within a month. That is the way the online world works. Or do you see a lot of FB or AEP servers around?

The nature of this sim is that it is cutting edge. That means that you keep up or get left behind. For me I say -- Oleg bring the rigs to their knees. Tired of people on pentium 1.4 with 256 megs of ram and a geforce 2 thinking that they can fly this game online with 12 fps or god forbid host a competitive match.

Lets get a real hardware standard and stick to it. Those who can't do it cant do it. Simple. Games and technology move on, pilots must too. Simming is expensive. If your not prepared to upgrade regularly your in the wrong hobby. For every pilot you lose you can bring two new ones in if you make the promise of the game come true. You don't do that by dumming down the experience imho.

Personally I am MOST excited by news that the online and offline communities will be split. A version for each. Would love to see that. We don't have to hear them and they don't have to listen to us.

Bring on the B.O.B. S~! and goodbye to PF and its ancient engine/limitations. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

EDIT: Nah I'll delete it.. I won't even bother...

Sharkey888
01-27-2006, 10:38 PM
It looks like an add on is close at hand. I really wonder what will be in it.