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View Full Version : I had to revise my opinion of the Raiden..



Ernst_Rohr
08-21-2007, 08:22 AM
I was flying the J2M5 last night, and I have to change my opinion of that bird.

I still hate the rear visibility of the plane, and the acceleration still seems sluggish BUT the plane is an unholy monster when flown right!

We were flying and Iwo Jima map, with Hellcats and Corsairs (and a few SBD's) going after Iwo while Zero's and Raidens defended.

The Raidens were just murder!

As long as you keep your speed up, the Raiden is just about untouchable, and if the poor slob in your sights decides to split S and dive away, he gets a 20mm enema for his trouble! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

The Hellcats and Corsairs kept coming in low to do ground strikes, and we kept booming them. At one point, three of us dove from 3000m, went through the enemy strike package at 600+kmh, spanked most of the enemy birds, and boogied right on out of there without a scratch.

I bagged six Hellcats and Corsairs on one run, and that NEVER happens! Only damage was from friendly flak. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

On paper, the Corsair has an edge in performance, but man I sure didn't see that! And the poor Hellcats just couldn't do much at all against them.

I think I have found a new ride! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Ernst_Rohr
08-21-2007, 08:22 AM
I was flying the J2M5 last night, and I have to change my opinion of that bird.

I still hate the rear visibility of the plane, and the acceleration still seems sluggish BUT the plane is an unholy monster when flown right!

We were flying and Iwo Jima map, with Hellcats and Corsairs (and a few SBD's) going after Iwo while Zero's and Raidens defended.

The Raidens were just murder!

As long as you keep your speed up, the Raiden is just about untouchable, and if the poor slob in your sights decides to split S and dive away, he gets a 20mm enema for his trouble! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

The Hellcats and Corsairs kept coming in low to do ground strikes, and we kept booming them. At one point, three of us dove from 3000m, went through the enemy strike package at 600+kmh, spanked most of the enemy birds, and boogied right on out of there without a scratch.

I bagged six Hellcats and Corsairs on one run, and that NEVER happens! Only damage was from friendly flak. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

On paper, the Corsair has an edge in performance, but man I sure didn't see that! And the poor Hellcats just couldn't do much at all against them.

I think I have found a new ride! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Skunk_438RCAF
08-21-2007, 09:27 AM
I had a similar experience a while back with this bird on ZvsW, but against P-47's, P-38's and Corsairs, who were mostly in ground attack configuration.

My most memorable dogfight was with a P-47, where I would out turn him, and since he was so low, outclimbed him and dove back on his tail multiple times. I mashed him up so good that he just slowly drifted towards the sea and crashed. That was fun.

leitmotiv
08-21-2007, 10:50 AM
The Jack 5 is a beast. I love it and the George.

mortoma
08-21-2007, 12:08 PM
I also had a amazing experience offline with the J2M3 a while ago. The only thing that gave me trouble were Mustangs. At medium and high altitudes the AI Stangs were hard to catch. They were really zooming and extending a lot. But the B-29 fell like Raid sprayed flies to me every time. I wonder if the real Jack was so good as it is in the game?? How did the B-29s escape them if they were that good? Maybe the Japanese had too few?

mortoma
08-21-2007, 12:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
The Jack 5 is a beast. I love it and the George. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>According to IL2 compare, the 5 should not be much better than the 3. But I wouldn't know from flying, because I don't have '46 installed yet. Must wait for new puter later this fall. So I can only fly the 3.

Widowmaker214
08-21-2007, 12:17 PM
Yep, the J2M3 was not that great.. but the J2M5 was pretty darn good in 4.07.. and is spectacular in 4.08. It can take a good bit of damage as well.
As far as the corsair... Its been ... worked on over the last few patches.. most notably in acceleration. Thats easy to see in how you have to speed up the carriers to warp speed to take off with a heavy load that they used to be able to do at regular carrier speeds several patches ago.(Had to ask Paul over at DCG to allow the editing of the carrier speeds so we could get the corsairs in the air again with bombs and rockets)
She does take a good beating and luckily the Wasp engine is the tough cookie its supposed to be. (unlike the glass jawed P47 razorback models).

With the speed the Raiden brings into play, it can chew up the Corsairs in IL2. In real life, Id give the edge to the Corsair still.

Honestly though, Id rather have a B or C model Frank. They are wickedly fast and with 20 or 30 mm cannons they are highly dangerous. I prefer those over the Raiden. I don't think they can take the punishment that Raiden can, but the ki-84 is a sweet ride.

The George.. something just doesn't feel right with it. I know its armored but it feels sluggish all around and I really don't like the auto flaps. I don't know what the drag factor is on them but I don't like them popping out there on their own all the time lol. It also doesn't seem to preform well up high. Better kept at lower altitudes. I wish they had kept the prop animation from 4.071. It looked awesome. She does take a good bit of damage though and is quite formidable with its cannons.

Ernst_Rohr
08-21-2007, 03:54 PM
Well, the Hayate is my favorite late war Japanese ride still, but the J2m5 has impressed the heck out of me.

Flown right, the 84 is just flat out one of the fastest birds in the game. Trimmed up right and with careful engine management, she is dangerously fast. Only down side is the low (for late war) max dive speed, which is very very easy to exceed.

The Raiden doesnt suffer from that dive problem though. So the usual US tactic of split S and dive is a good way to get splattered against the Jack. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The George is a different bird entirely. As a dogfighter, she is one heck of a formidable opponent, she dives well, and can take quite a beating (for a Japanese fighter). The down side is it is very easy to stall her in a tight turn, and the speed at alt is bit lacking.

The George is still a great plane, and its a great matchup against the Hellcat, but you REALLY have to watch your E in the George, those autoflaps will slow you down fast if your not careful.

Skunk_438RCAF
08-21-2007, 03:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Widowmaker214:
(Had to ask Paul over at DCG to allow the editing of the carrier speeds so we could get the corsairs in the air again with bombs and rockets)

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Arent those loadouts supposed to only be used for take offs from land bases anyway?

hi_stik
08-21-2007, 04:07 PM
if you're diving on bomb-running Corsairs and Hellcats, I'd expect you to get your kills. Take the fight upstairs w/ a Corsair flying CAP, then come back to us...

VW-IceFire
08-21-2007, 04:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Skunk_438RCAF:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Widowmaker214:
(Had to ask Paul over at DCG to allow the editing of the carrier speeds so we could get the corsairs in the air again with bombs and rockets)

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Arent those loadouts supposed to only be used for take offs from land bases anyway? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Depends on the loadout. HVAR plus Tiny Tim's should work and so should HVAR plus 2x1000lb bombs I think. Or at least HVAR plus 2x500lb. Some of the other configurations like the ultimate 4000lbs total bomb carrage are land based only. You should be able to get off the deck with any thing mentioned above.

Been working on a Corsair carrier campaign and its doable although I am worried about the skill level required to get off the deck.

Korolov1986
08-21-2007, 05:55 PM
On a Essex going maximum possible speed (~50kmh), you can get off with about 50% fuel, 3x1000lbs, and 8xHVAR. Trade two 1000lbs in for 500lbs and you can get off with 75%.

It may not be some uber dogfighting OMFG ZOOM ROCKET plane, but the U-Bird makes up for it by being a great multirole aircraft.

In terms of performance, the Jack beats the Corsair so bad it isn't even funny. Fortunately the Jack was rarely encountered before 1945 and as I understand it, rarely outside of Japan.

R_Target
08-21-2007, 06:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Widowmaker214:
The George.. something just doesn't feel right with it. I know its armored... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which is strange because the N1K2 didn't have armor. It did have self sealing tanks though.

Rammjaeger
08-22-2007, 06:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
I also had a amazing experience offline with the J2M3 a while ago. The only thing that gave me trouble were Mustangs. At medium and high altitudes the AI Stangs were hard to catch. They were really zooming and extending a lot. But the B-29 fell like Raid sprayed flies to me every time. I wonder if the real Jack was so good as it is in the game?? How did the B-29s escape them if they were that good? Maybe the Japanese had too few? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The usual problems: lack of fuel and production material (especially aluminium), low production quality, unreliable engines, numerical inferiority.

Feathered_IV
08-22-2007, 07:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ernst_Rohr:
I was flying the J2M5 last night, and I have to change my opinion of that bird.

I still hate the rear visibility of the plane, and the acceleration still seems sluggish BUT the plane is an unholy monster when flown right!

The Raidens were just murder!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You should have seen it when they were first released http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif For about a week or so the Allied PTO BnZ set never expected to see anything above them. The shoe was on the other foot then. What a luxury to be able to chase down a P-51 for a change http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif