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MOH_MADMAN
10-12-2007, 01:44 AM
Lil nugget for those who think it A OK.


"A "derivative work," that is, a work that is based on (or derived from) one or more already existing works, is copyrightable if it includes what the copyright law calls an "original work of authorship." Derivative works, also known as "new versions," include such works as translations, musical arrangements, dramatizations, fictionalizations, art reproductions, and condensations. Any work in which the editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications represent, as a whole, an original work of authorship is a derivative work or new version.

A typical example of a derivative work received for registration in the Copyright Office is one that is primarily a new work but incorporates some previously published material. This previously published material makes the work a derivative work under the copyright law.

To be copyrightable, a derivative work must be different enough from the original to be regarded as a "new work" or must contain a substantial amount of new material. Making minor changes or additions of little substance to a preexisting work will not qualify the work as a new version for copyright purposes. The new material must be original and copyrightable in itself. Titles, short phrases, and format, for example, are not copyrightable."


MAD

my edit was restricted to quotation marks, beginning and end.

MOH_MADMAN
10-12-2007, 01:44 AM
Lil nugget for those who think it A OK.


"A "derivative work," that is, a work that is based on (or derived from) one or more already existing works, is copyrightable if it includes what the copyright law calls an "original work of authorship." Derivative works, also known as "new versions," include such works as translations, musical arrangements, dramatizations, fictionalizations, art reproductions, and condensations. Any work in which the editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications represent, as a whole, an original work of authorship is a derivative work or new version.

A typical example of a derivative work received for registration in the Copyright Office is one that is primarily a new work but incorporates some previously published material. This previously published material makes the work a derivative work under the copyright law.

To be copyrightable, a derivative work must be different enough from the original to be regarded as a "new work" or must contain a substantial amount of new material. Making minor changes or additions of little substance to a preexisting work will not qualify the work as a new version for copyright purposes. The new material must be original and copyrightable in itself. Titles, short phrases, and format, for example, are not copyrightable."


MAD

my edit was restricted to quotation marks, beginning and end.

bigbossmalone
10-12-2007, 07:52 AM
A.....OK

AKA_TAGERT
10-12-2007, 09:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MOH_MADMAN:
Lil nugget for those who think it A OK.


"A "derivative work," that is, a work that is based on (or derived from) one or more already existing works, is copyrightable if it includes what the copyright law calls an "original work of authorship." Derivative works, also known as "new versions," include such works as translations, musical arrangements, dramatizations, fictionalizations, art reproductions, and condensations. Any work in which the editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications represent, as a whole, an original work of authorship is a derivative work or new version.

A typical example of a derivative work received for registration in the Copyright Office is one that is primarily a new work but incorporates some previously published material. This previously published material makes the work a derivative work under the copyright law.

To be copyrightable, a derivative work must be different enough from the original to be regarded as a "new work" or must contain a substantial amount of new material. Making minor changes or additions of little substance to a preexisting work will not qualify the work as a new version for copyright purposes. The new material must be original and copyrightable in itself. Titles, short phrases, and format, for example, are not copyrightable."


MAD

my edit was restricted to quotation marks, beginning and end. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Which might mater if he was applying for a copyright of his work..

Which he is not.

That and there is no $ changing hands.

It would be very different if he was packaging up the CD/DVD with the original format along with his changes and charging $ for it.

Which he is not.

carguy_
10-12-2007, 12:02 PM
Are you a lawyer by any chance?Look dude, if you want to talk about things better just ask a specialist and paste his interpretation here.

You know for what lawyers are for?To let you know that you actually know #### about law.

MOH_MADMAN
10-12-2007, 01:21 PM
I am not a lawyer, I am an artist who produces original works.
I have had my copyright infringed many times, no money changed hands for them to infringe on my copyright. The money that did change hands was the 3x $ amount they paid me to settle thier intentional infringement (as opposed to unintentional infringement, which is a 1x $ worth).
I do not need to apply for a copyright as I hold ownership of the original material solely. It does help tho if you take someone to court, and it helps if you intend to publish your work.
I assure you UBI has a copyright and additional protection, or whatever is the equivelent in France, where UBI is based. If you dont believe that go ask the UBI folks. What protections Oleg has, you would have to ask him, I would assume he also has his property protected before he published his work.
It seems to me that breaking code and distributing it is an infringement on the owners intellectual property rights.

What I posted was straight out of the US copyright office, with no input from me, but was for your info.

The rest is up to you.

MAD

carguy_
10-12-2007, 01:27 PM
I`m sorry, the kind of reply from me was uncalled for.No hard feelings,huh?

I`m from Poland it`s a bit different here.You don`t need to register anything because the statutory law protects artists from the very moment of making their creation.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It seems to me that breaking code and distributing it is an infringement on the owners intellectual property rights. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You guess correctly.I bet Seafire also knows that very well though I didn`t find him clearly stating so. After all I think we should fight any type of such copyright infringment regardless if you are the victim or someone else .I get the feeling that folks don`t care about it in this case at all which is a great disapointment for me.

MOH_MADMAN
10-12-2007, 01:55 PM
Foot in mouth is what you do best.

No hard feelings eh!


MAD

Da_Godfatha
10-12-2007, 02:54 PM
@Han Solo Freak..... This "you don't own it" is ****. Pure and simple. It is BS that some software companies like to throw about. You "bought" the software, you don't rent it or any other legal mumbo jumbo.

That would not hold up in court. In Germany at least not.

What would they do, demand the software back after 7 years or so ?

I have never seen so mayn lawyers on one forum. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

BTW, were is the Chicken Little picture that always floats around ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

The sky is falling.... the game has been hacked !! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Bearcat99
10-12-2007, 03:04 PM
You own the software disc... but the software that is on it is owned by 1C just as Windows is owned by MS.. thats why technically if you install the SW on more than 1 PC windows will give you that "you are using pirated software" message.. Maybe not to day.. maybe not tomorrow.. but eventually... Tagert $$ does not have to change hands for copyright infringement... How far the enforcement goes is up to the offended party..

ploughman
10-12-2007, 03:05 PM
I'm fairly sure that in the UK you own your copy of Il-2 46. You even get to resell it at market value in a 2nd hand gaming software shop.

Just don't reproduce it and then sell it or attempt to prevent the copyright holder from carrying on his lawful business or you will be screwed.

carguy_
10-12-2007, 03:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by han freak solo:
Since the last thread was locked and this topic brought up again, <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">I'd still like to know if we OWN IL2:1946 or we only purchased licenses when we got the CDs, DVDs, or downloads????</span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Simple.I do not know about US law but EU law does not give you possesion of the maker`s creation.To change the game and profit from it,you`d need to buy the rights from Oleg(or whoever`s intelectual property IL2 is).So you can USE the game as in PLAY IT but not change it or profit on it without the maker`s "yes".This is maker`s personal right so he could get a trial and most likely win with the guy who broke the code.He could also possibly prosecute all those who use the changes without his permission.

Anyway, most things are in EULA.So if you agreed on it and pressed "I agree" you state that you know what you`re getting into and it is a possible proof of your guilt of infringment.

Anyway you put it, "ignorantio iuris nocet" applies.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I don't care about the sound mod, or derivative copyrights. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Great.If you haven`t already, you`ll get to know soon enough that knowing one`s rights and obligations is a very useful ability.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
If so, can you a provide a source, link, or screenshot?

Thanks in advance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No links needed.Startup an msi of a game and you got an EULA.Read it and if you have problems referr to lawyer`s interpretation.

Da_Godfatha,
if you do not know, Germany is one of the greatest sources of law in history.Probably every single country existing today has created its law on a platform that German scholars are throughout the history of law.

Therefore, that would hold up most likely in a German court.

ploughman
10-12-2007, 04:14 PM
You lost me, why are you posting that?

carguy_
10-12-2007, 04:15 PM
Page four [4] should be shown to everybody.

carguy_
10-12-2007, 04:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ploughman:
You lost me, why are you posting that? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe he wants people to know?

R_Target
10-12-2007, 04:21 PM
Beastie Boys really took it on the chin after they sampled from Abbey Road.

ploughman
10-12-2007, 04:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ploughman:
You lost me, why are you posting that? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe he wants people to know? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's fine and I certainly wouldn't want Oleg or the publishers to take a hit but they are not the source (of law) at least not yet.

carguy_
10-12-2007, 04:32 PM
Wouln`t want to jump into conclusions.

So I ask what do you mean by that?

striker-85
10-12-2007, 04:35 PM
From the terms of the license posted it is clearly against the terms to mod the game...

But for the end users running the sound mod in the US this would not be a criminal issue, this would be a civil issue.

UBI or 1C would have to go after each user individually in civil court and this is just not practical.

ploughman
10-12-2007, 04:37 PM
That law is the province of the courts having been passed down from the legislature and that a EULA is one party's interpretation of its rights and nothing more.

What it is not is 'the source.'

carguy_
10-12-2007, 04:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by striker-85:
UBI or 1C would have to go after each user individually in civil court and this is just not practical. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well then lets just mod the hell outta the game, shall we?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That law is the province of the courts having been passed down from the legislature and that a EULA is one party's interpretation of its rights and nothing more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

News flash man - it`s ALL about the interpretation.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I just wanted to know what our rights were with the game, but no one would give a source. Apparently it was easier to bicker about it than to prove it. Angry Blue Guy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, as far as I know you have the access to the internet.Right?So what now?Should I call your mommy to check it for you?

ploughman
10-12-2007, 04:58 PM
Han, check your PMs.

carguy_
10-12-2007, 05:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by han freak solo:
Smacktard. Friggin' idiot response. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Somehow that doesn`t sound so good as much as when TAGERT writes it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I checked the internet last night on UBI websites, and 1C but I can't read whatever that is the Russians write. The UBI websites only post up terms and conditions for their websites, not the games. The PDF manuals that come with the games are very unclear, too. That is why I asked on the web forum that UBI provides. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No need to look there.The distribution depends on the selling country`s law.So in the same country, the EULAS and their interpretations are more or less the same.
Go find yourself an article on law and games in your country and you have an answer on what you can or can`t do.

Hence, looking at 1C or UBI sites is not the best choice.

bigbossmalone
10-12-2007, 07:21 PM
Sorry guys, but is there a point to this whole debate?
Where are we trying to go with this?
To point out to all the mod users that they are criminals, and should be locked up?
Most, if not all, PC software carries a very similar EULA - so if their devs don't mind if it's modded in most cases, you've still signed it are, ipso facto, a criminal?
To all those shouting about the illegalities of modding this, or any other game, remember that there are so many of these EULA-type agreements in the modern world that ALL of us, whether we know it or not, are guilty of contravening some or other clause somewhere along the line.
I am not a lawyer, but I do have 7 years experience in criminal law, and we should all realise that if each clause/agreement/law was strictly adhered to, we would ALL be guilty of a contravention at some point. I say again, ALL of us. Show me the modern day saint, and I'll show you the spaceship I use to travel to outer Betelgeuse every second weekend! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
So, once again, to those shouting 'illegal!', what is your point, other than to maybe point out to others how 'bad' they are, and how 'good' you are?
If that makes you feel better about yourself, then good for you.
Unless, of course, you plan to actually do something about it. Otherwise, enough of this silliness, I think.
Can we all just get on with enjoying IL2, whether modded or not?
Surely, that is the main common denominator we all have here - the love of IL2?
Let it be, guys, let's move on...

bigbossmalone
10-12-2007, 07:32 PM
I eagerly await carguy's word-for-word interpretation of my previous post, and hopefully a new accolade for best post ever, or maybe worst post ever...
Either way, I'll be happy. In fact, I am happy.
My favorite flightsim now sounds much better than it ever did. For better or for worse...
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

carguy_
10-12-2007, 08:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bigbossmalone:
Sorry guys, but is there a point to this whole debate? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What part of page 4 EULA you don`t understand?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Where are we trying to go with this? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Solo`s post answers the question.He didn`t know, I showed him, now he`s a bit more informed on the issue.You could be very surprised how low the law-consciousness of some folks are.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
To point out to all the mod users that they are criminals, and should be locked up? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope but maybe they will think they don`t deserve mum`s kiss-anight tonight!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Most, if not all, PC software carries a very similar EULA - so if their devs don't mind if it's modded in most cases, you've still signed it are, ipso facto, a criminal? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Referr to a certain game EULA in this case.You don`t understand the issue either.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
To all those shouting about the illegalities of modding this, or any other game, remember that there are so many of these EULA-type agreements in the modern world that ALL of us, whether we know it or not, are guilty of contravening some or other clause somewhere along the line. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Got track?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I am not a lawyer, but I do have 7 years experience in criminal law, and we should all realise that if each clause/agreement/law was strictly adhered to, we would ALL be guilty of a contravention at some point. I say again, ALL of us. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That`s why some law systems stay far from the so-called malicious law!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Show me the modern day saint, and I'll show you the spaceship I use to travel to outer Betelgeuse every second weekend! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Must be fun!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
So, once again, to those shouting 'illegal!', what is your point, other than to maybe point out to others how 'bad' they are, and how 'good' you are? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Elementary my dear Watson!Relativism is the keyword.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
If that makes you feel better about yourself, then good for you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I`m a happy ace!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Unless, of course, you plan to actually do something about it. Otherwise, enough of this silliness, I think. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

BINGO!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Can we all just get on with enjoying IL2, whether modded or not? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope!Without dev`s permission modding is naughty.Get it?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Surely, that is the main common denominator we all have here - the love of IL2?
Let it be, guys, let's move on... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, tell that to Oleg Maddox in person.

LEXX_Luthor
10-12-2007, 09:30 PM
bigboss:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">To point out to all the mod users that they are criminals, and should be locked up? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>DoolittleRaider @ simhq:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">All the high-faluting moralists' assertions about concern for law is cr&p....it's all about concern over the possibility of "Cheating". imho

~ http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2353367&fpart=9
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Doolitle's observation appears correct, but there were notable exceptions like Offliner heywoood and possibly "3.01 dot" carguy. (http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/thumbs.gif ) The "online moralistas" lost their message by accusing all who use the unauthorized(?) mod of being Online cheaters or "wanting UFO flight models." As we all know these accusations are false, they only bury the real issue that Oleg probably does not want this mod to happen, for whatever reason. Boop at simhq poasted the best that offers all opinions without getting emotional or accusatory....

Boop @ simhq:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It seems the default sounds are so bad everyone is willing to accept a hacked exe to get the features they want. I am amazed (and glad) this thread has not been locked.

As I mentioned earlier there is not much need to worry about cheating in online play, any server that wants to remain "pure" can just enable "CHECKRUNTIME=2" and not have to worry about hacked exe cheats.

Those that want a more in depth singleplayer or coop with trusted friends can enjoy these new sounds, planes, gore :0 , and possibly even 6DOF and new default skin packs.

The cat is out of the bag, at least for now. The only question that remains is whether it will remain underground or become widely accepted by the community.


~ http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2350627&fpart=5
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
...although if CRT=2 fails as some say, Oleg should Patch this hacked hole.

If it stays underground it will be for hostile accusations against other paying customers who support Oleg. If it becomes widely accepted, its possible there may be the chance Oleg will releace his own far superior mod, and possibly for sale.

Tab_Flettner
10-12-2007, 09:57 PM
So with this argument are you saying skinning is illegal, or using skins is illegal? Or is misnaming skins illegal? What about mat manager? The legal / non-legal side of this argument is a non-starter, I think. If somebody starts citing precedent or case law I will be interested.

If you review Oleg's interaction with people who were likely the perps in the 90 (or whatever) page post on this topic on the sukhoi.ru forums, he is not exactly threatening legal action.

"At the altitudes this community flies at, diving is not an option." ~Stiglr LOL!

LEXX_Luthor
10-12-2007, 10:01 PM
What did Oleg say, well his general thoughts?

90 PAGES!!??? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

heywooood
10-12-2007, 10:05 PM
I couldn't give a flip about online DF or any other kind of 'cheating' in as much as I have no interest in online play - for the simple reason that it is fraught with childish poor sportsmanship and accusations. Teh 'annonymous' internet attitudes blow.

My opinion about the hacking is simple - it (the Il2 code/software) is not belonging to anyone but the software designer, developer, and partially, the distributor in exchange for the distribution ofcourse...

The ******s that talk about buying the game and by proxy being entitled to alter or modify the software are wrong and are acting to directly break the law by accessing and altering it for the purpose of redistributing said alteration or by linking and sharing the illicitly altered code without permission of the developer and on the developers distribution company's own website.

Just because you 'feel' the sound is better doesn't have anything to do with the propriety of the software or anyones 'right' to alter or hack someone elses property - and the software code is the property of 1c Maddox as is clearly understood...Haxle Jones did not create Il2...Oleg and his associates at 1c did, and they own the sole right to change it...period.

It is not only in bad form to flaunt this and other hax of the sim right here on teh UBI site (for the record - I don't love UBI, but without them we might not have ever 'legally' seen Il2 outside of Russia) but it is also indicative of the general disregard people seem to have for just about everything that they do not personally have an ownership claim on. "If it isn't mine then F-it let it burn..or be 'burned' and sold...not my problem"

there is no empathy on any level...not just this simple example of the wanton distruction of a legendary flight sim...but a general decline in the ability of unaquainted individuals to give a **** about anyone but themselves.
Thats where I am coming from whether anyone agrees with me or not is not important to me - but being able to create something is a gift - being willing to take the time and expense to share it with others is commendable - asking a fair price in a free market society is understandable and acceptable - taking that and breaking into it and altering it for some sorry excuse or for ones own selfish need is garbage - coming in here and crowing about it and throwing that garbage around is just plain lame.

anyone ever wonder what else might be included in the hax?...check your hard drives you floppy discs - I wouldn't doubt some of you've been RAMmed and don't even know it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Tab_Flettner
10-12-2007, 10:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What did Oleg say, well his general thoughts?

90 PAGES!!??? Smash </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am not a native Russian speaker, so I read the post or at least about 90% of it, through a translator. I asked Crazy Ivan to correct me if I was way off base in how I characterized it, and he didn't. Oleg had a pretty substantial discussion, and was very, very professional with, lets face it, his home client base. The gist of it was, "hey guys, I know what you are doing, come on, I know some things need fixing, etc..." I thought the guy handled it really well. There was none of this "I'll have you all locked up" cr@p, or hysteria. I think he realizes, IMHO, as a professional developer with an enthusiastic fan base, that stuff like this will happen, sooner or later. I predict, fix in the next patch.

Hey Ivan if I am way off base, as I said in my other post on this a while ago, please correct me.

LEXX_Luthor
10-12-2007, 10:24 PM
Thanks Tab. I'll czech it out when I get some time. If Oleg doesn't like the Mack (mod/hack) then its a Bad Mack.


heywoood, your early mistake in other threads was trying to associate the Mack with violent crimes on the street. That alone causes *real* people to skip over your entire poastings which don't make sense from that point on. There was some brilliant discussion by others far greater than I in another thread about making "law" understandable for the people ... look it up.

heywooood:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It is not only in bad form to flaunt this </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That makes sense. But we have seen no real flaunting around here -- as far as I know. No screenshots, although I have not czeched out the Screenshot Thread (always oversize pics, those). No ads for Mack Tolerant servers that I know of, although I'm don't ever look in the places that Online players do. I dunno.

heywooood
10-12-2007, 10:29 PM
whatever - I associate the act of betraying a trust the same regardless of whether it results in a violent crime or a non-violent crime...because neither one is possible without the betrayal of trust first...that is the common denominator. Thats the point I was trying to make....obviously.

its pretty simple

LEXX_Luthor
10-12-2007, 10:43 PM
Betraying "trust" can be talked about without making slogans that equate the Mack with violent crime or drug abuse. We don't have to do this to make a point, and I've made my mistakes -- some rather sloppy.

heywooood
10-12-2007, 11:36 PM
well as to mistakes...who hasn't

as to making a point...that is just the point.
it is not a 'slogan' to equate your 'Mack' with violent crime when I propose that is is not the end - but the means that is the same...see?

Just because the end of one betrayal is violence or the death or harm of a person and the other is the death or harm of a product (and through loss of income) harm to a person and his family...or in the bigger scheme - just adding to the general degradation of society as a whole - reducing piece by piece its viability and self sustenance like leeches...howzat for a slogan?

So dismissing my 'slogan' as being too harsh or 'silly' is the defense mechanism of the indicted... people don't like to be called out or caught - they use excuses or try to rationalise their transgressions...always.

Tab_Flettner
10-12-2007, 11:41 PM
HFS:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'm no lawyer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So does this mean my divorce isn't legal?

heywooood
10-12-2007, 11:43 PM
"don't you have some Tabs to Fletten?"- Megile


(Gdammit that Megile is a funny lil feller)

Tab_Flettner
10-12-2007, 11:46 PM
ya I have to admit when I saw that one I thought it was pretty funny.

heywooood
10-12-2007, 11:48 PM
me too pal http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

Tab_Flettner
10-13-2007, 12:01 AM
Ok this is a test...check this out

BfHeFwMe
10-13-2007, 12:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by han freak solo:
Since the last thread was locked and this topic brought up again, <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">I'd still like to know if we OWN IL2:1946 or we only purchased licenses when we got the CDs, DVDs, or downloads????</span>

I don't care about the sound mod, or derivative copyrights. I just want to know if I own my legally purchased copies of IL2, IL2:Forgotten Battles-Gold Pack, IL2:Pacific Fighters, and IL2:1946.

Anybody know?

If so, can you a provide a source, link, or screenshot?

Thanks in advance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Legal or not I own the physical disk it's on and my computer. Try taking it away, and I'll plead the second.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q150/Biffy_06/autoslidaz.jpg

BfHeFwMe
10-13-2007, 12:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:


News flash man - it`s ALL about the interpretation.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You couldn't be more wrong, you obviously don't understand the western legal system. It all hinges on precedents, what cases have gone before and how the rulings were handled. The law is simply a guide, not the ruling itself.

carguy_
10-13-2007, 05:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
You couldn't be more wrong, you obviously don't understand the western legal system. It all hinges on precedents, what cases have gone before and how the rulings were handled. The law is simply a guide, not the ruling itself. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ask yourself when does the precedent take place?
What causes a precedent?

Even in the common law system, legal norms are "pulled out" from their literal meaning by those who have a degree in law.Literal meaning never directly presents the complete legal norm without its interpretation.That is done by the specified body, in other words, a person/s.
A precedent is only a result of initial interpretation of the literal meaning coupled up with a certain state of affairs.

It works a bit different in the statutory law system.Nevertheless, the interpretation ALWAYS takes place.

Taylortony
10-13-2007, 07:40 AM
I know of one legal company in the UK that when installing windows from the cd actually pop the case apart to get the disc out rather than tear the seal that tells you that breaking this seal you are agreeing to xyz......

BfHeFwMe Nice collection.... I used the two on the right during my career.... excellent weapon easily modded to auto fire as well. only flaw was they were the wrong gun for the scenario we were in, but the military could never see that....... guarding an airfield the obvious place for troops to arrive were on chutes of from the air onto the runway.... engaging them with the SLR meant any misses were hitting the other squadrons as we were all based at each corner of the Airfield........ the SLR could kill at 2-3 miles (just) on a bad day

LEXX_Luthor
10-13-2007, 06:44 PM
3.01 dot carguy (page 2):: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Yeah, tell that to Oleg Maddox in person. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's the first moral reason poasted here that I've been able to pick out for not wanting the Mack. Its a good one and cuts to the core.

Tab, where is this 90 page thread?

LW_lcarp
10-13-2007, 07:39 PM
From the IL2 Forgotten Battles install End User Licence Agreement



The User recognises that all of the rights associated with the Multimedia Product and its components (in particular the titles, computer codes, themes, characters, character names, plots, stories, dialogues, places, concepts, images, photographs, animation, videos, music and text contained in the Multimedia Product), as well as the rights relating to the trademark, royalties and copyrights, are the property of Ubi Soft and are protected by French regulations or other Laws, Treaties and international agreements concerning intellectual property.

It is not permitted:
- To make copies of the Multimedia Product,
- To operate the Multimedia Product commercially,
- To use it contrary to morality or the laws in force,
- To modify the Multimedia Product or create any derived work,
- To transmit the Multimedia Product via a telephone network or any other electronic means, except during multi-player games on authorised networks,
- To create or distribute unauthorised levels and/or scenarios,
- To decompile, reverse engineer or disassemble the Multimedia Product.

So if we look at the not permitted list the second to last one is interesting To create ordistribute unauthorized levels and/ or scenarios watch out mission and campaign builders your breaking the EULA

To modify the Multimedia Product or create any derived work, --So does this one mean that anyone who has changed a skin or voice chatter is breaking the EULA.

They write EULAs to be a double edged sword your d@mned if you do your d@mned if you dont.

They did the same EULA with Silent hunter and UBI isnt going after anyone to stop modding thast game

LEXX_Luthor
10-13-2007, 08:09 PM
Lwcarp:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">They write EULAs to be a double edged sword your d@mned if you do your d@mned if you dont.

They did the same EULA with Silent hunter and UBI isnt going after anyone to stop modding thast game </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
SH subsim may have been created with intent to allow such modding. However, you may be correct in that much of EULAs and its complexity may be designed to protect the business sales or image in case of any future embarassment that may arise through modding. Then the EULA may allow the businsess or corporation to take action if it was embarassed or hurt by the mod.

Good reading here in the mrsiCkstar, Bewolf, VonGrantoven, and GIAP.Shura thread, starting on page 3 below...

~&gt;
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/2531080695/p/3

I think alot of the complexity is because the new nature of software and how to make it like traditional products such as...well you can't pirate a toaster. You can't copy a car and share it with another driver. Software is a totally new thing here, and we havent yet figured out how to deal with this. As predicted in the 70s, Future Shock has happened! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Tab_Flettner
10-13-2007, 08:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Tab, where is this 90 page thread? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lexx, here is the link to the discussion about it on this forum.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/7381092085/p/1

Quoting Crazy Ivan in that thread: "I just love those people who has no clue of what`s going on popping on various forums and "stating" their mind. There are 3 ppl you should pay attention to Capt... O.M., luthier and SaQSoN"

I scanned it but I could not find the direct link to the actual sukhoi thread, it may have been removed. You could check over at sukhoi.ru.

The thing with this discussion is that increasingly it is just going over old ground. It's out there, they are going to fix it, 4.09, be sure.

It seems to me the the people closest to this thing, the people Ivan mentions, and Ivan, have been the least hysterical and most level headed through the whole "mod era".

Just my 2 rubles....

LEXX_Luthor
10-13-2007, 08:51 PM
I missed out on all that. Its that old eh?

Any link to the old sukhoi thread? If it was that long ago, its probably lost now. Thanks anyways!!

Da_Godfatha
10-14-2007, 07:06 AM
So...according to the Ubi Soft EULA......most of the users here have violated it.

RE: skins , missions, and templates, etc. Those who have made pay-for-mission packs, like Ian Boys have violated it. They made money off of it. Dunno, maybe he had permision, who knows?

This is a prime example of something in the EULA that may or may not be legal. We THINK it is legal (EULA) untill some court somewhere say it is not.

I think we should outlaw lawyers.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

BTW, were was the outcry when some d1ckhead forgot to put the little (TM) next to some planes on the box when PF came out. It amounts basicly to the same thing. Using someone else's property without their premission.

Just a thought.....