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View Full Version : FW-190 vs. BF-109 Server?



MEGILE
08-07-2005, 02:57 PM
I love shooting down 109s... exploding them with Hispanos, sawing through them with Shvaks, and setting them on fire with 50 cals..
but it pains me that I cannot do this while flying a Focke Wulf

We need a 190 vs. 109 server... just to prove what the best truly is.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

MEGILE
08-07-2005, 02:57 PM
I love shooting down 109s... exploding them with Hispanos, sawing through them with Shvaks, and setting them on fire with 50 cals..
but it pains me that I cannot do this while flying a Focke Wulf

We need a 190 vs. 109 server... just to prove what the best truly is.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Atomic_Marten
08-07-2005, 03:20 PM
What you proposing is completely un natural thing. You should be ashamed of yourself. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Zyzbot
08-07-2005, 03:39 PM
Or you could set something up to re-enact this event:

"The first mission undertaken by III/JG 301 on March 2, 1945 was to intercept U.S. bombers heading for the Bohlen chemical plant near Leuna. It ended when pilots of a group of Messerschmitt BF-109s mistook the new German aircraft for the enemy and engaged them. No losses were incurred and the superior climbing and agility of the Ta 152 H allowed them to evade all of the "attackers".

Atomic_Marten
08-07-2005, 03:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zyzbot:
Or you could set something up to re-enact this event:

"The first mission undertaken by III/JG 301 on March 2, 1945 was to intercept U.S. bombers heading for the Bohlen chemical plant near Leuna. It ended when pilots of a group of Messerschmitt BF-109s mistook the new German aircraft for the enemy and engaged them. No losses were incurred and the superior climbing and agility of the Ta 152 H allowed them to evade all of the "attackers". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now Zyzbot where did you heard that?

Rest assured, that must be only example of bad propaganda. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

MEGILE
08-07-2005, 04:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zyzbot:
Or you could set something up to re-enact this event:

"The first mission undertaken by III/JG 301 on March 2, 1945 was to intercept U.S. bombers heading for the Bohlen chemical plant near Leuna. It ended when pilots of a group of Messerschmitt BF-109s mistook the new German aircraft for the enemy and engaged them. No losses were incurred and the superior climbing and agility of the Ta 152 H allowed them to evade all of the "attackers". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

See.. its planeset would be more realistic than half of the servers out there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

x__CRASH__x
08-07-2005, 04:14 PM
Funny, every time I've flown with you on my wing, Megile, you were in a 109.

If you just want to get it out of your system, I will be happy to fly a 1v1 with you FW vs Biffy.

MEGILE
08-07-2005, 04:17 PM
What would be the point?
I would merge, take a head on shot, zoom up dive down and go home.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BF-109 vs. Focke server.. fockes would own.

109 is good... 190 is better.

x__CRASH__x
08-07-2005, 08:20 PM
tis the pilot, not the ride. Personally, I'm not a great FW stick. It doesn't fit my TnB lifestyle. Thats why I prefer the 109.

Pirschjaeger
08-07-2005, 09:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zyzbot:
Or you could set something up to re-enact this event:

"The first mission undertaken by III/JG 301 on March 2, 1945 was to intercept U.S. bombers heading for the Bohlen chemical plant near Leuna. It ended when pilots of a group of Messerschmitt BF-109s mistook the new German aircraft for the enemy and engaged them. No losses were incurred and the superior climbing and agility of the Ta 152 H allowed them to evade all of the "attackers". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now Zyzbot where did you heard that?

Rest assured, that must be only example of bad propaganda. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can see the possiblity. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Germany has about 50 dialects. If they had radios this could explain why Gunther Rall's killcount was so high and why the LW lost so many aircraft. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

The 109 pilot were Bavarian and the 190 pilots were Saxonian. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz

Atomic_Marten
08-07-2005, 10:05 PM
Yes. Precisely. Except the killcount thing, which is only partialy true and I will explain why.

He flew Bf-109. He scored. He moved to FW-190. He did not scored. Later they were accounted bulk of his messer kills to the butcher bird kills. That is just one proof of many saying that the Bf-109 was the plane with best capabilities overall. Not that I understimate his skills (Rall), I just want to point out that versus American P-51s you must oppose with superior fighter, to provide your rookie pilots (many Luftwaffe pilots in late war were very young and inexperienced) at least equal chance as American well trained pilots. That lack in experience has to be 'filled' somehow and the best way (in fact only) was superior machine.

Now it isn't hard to see what elevated Rall so much on list of *best off* ace pilots. Besides his experience - he flied on Bf-109. Deadly combo. Without Bf-109 he would be just one more ww2 ace (not that it is bad thing but..) with average success...

Pirschjaeger
08-07-2005, 11:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
Yes. Precisely. Except the killcount thing, which is only partialy true and I will explain why.

He flew Bf-109. He scored. He moved to FW-190. He did not scored. Later they were accounted bulk of his messer kills to the butcher bird kills. That is just one proof of many saying that the Bf-109 was the plane with best capabilities overall. Not that I understimate his skills (Rall), I just want to point out that versus American P-51s you must oppose with superior fighter, to provide your rookie pilots (many Luftwaffe pilots in late war were very young and inexperienced) at least equal chance as American well trained pilots. That lack in experience has to be 'filled' somehow and the best way (in fact only) was superior machine.

Now it isn't hard to see what elevated Rall so much on list of *best off* ace pilots. Besides his experience - he flied on Bf-109. Deadly combo. Without Bf-109 he would be just one more ww2 ace (not that it is bad thing but..) with average success... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To be honest, I know nothing about Rall and was making a joke.

But I have been thinking about which is better in the game. I think if you are a good shot, at long distances(700m), the 190 is better. The 190 is not as maneuverable as the 109 but the firepower and speed is nice. BnZ is the way to go or at least extented TnB. As long as you don't let the 109 get a firing solution you can basically keep control of the situation in the 190.

But, with the 109, regarding what I said above, you only need patience. Whether one plane is better than the other is hard to say and I think it depends on the perspective and flying style of the pilot.

I have flown 109 vs 190 on both sides. It was how we used to train sometimes. From my experience, it will be the better pilot that wins. I don't think the planes are really comparable. Each has their own strength and weakensses, just like the pilots.

Fritz

AerialTarget
08-07-2005, 11:33 PM
The Focke-Wulf will never touch the Me-109. It is inconceivable. Me-109 is nearly as fast, accelerates a lot better, and turns many times as well.

Fehler
08-07-2005, 11:55 PM
Pfft... fly around until the baby 109 runs out of fuel, then vulch him!

JG54_Arnie
08-08-2005, 12:46 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif The 190 would win, hands down. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Xiolablu3
08-08-2005, 01:41 AM
I would much rather be in a 190D than ANY 109.

Better a FW190 of the same era to any 109 too.

Atomic_Marten
08-08-2005, 02:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Pirschjaeger wrote:
But I have been thinking about which is better in the game. I think if you are a good shot, at long distances(700m), the 190 is better. The 190 is not as maneuverable as the 109 but the firepower and speed is nice. BnZ is the way to go or at least extented TnB. As long as you don't let the 109 get a firing solution you can basically keep control of the situation in the 190. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now that isn't hard to check out is it?

All of you guys keep repeating that FW-190 (regardless of type) was 'better' or superior to Bf-109. That is what I call affected by bad propaganda.
While FW-190 wasn't a plane that you could underestimate on any way, Bf-109 was clearly superior type. Since FW-190s combat career started later than Bf-109s, one could think "they have made now better a fighter than Bf-109". False. Willy Messerschmitt predicted that chain of events and he developed Gustavs...
The only single thing FW-190 has better than Bf-109 is firepower. Which makes it better bomber buster. That plane wasn't nicknamed 'butcher bird' for nothing. Fact is that Kurt Tank and the rest of the guys did not really know how to make a better fighter than 109.

So they put more guns on it...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But, with the 109, regarding what I said above, you only need patience. Whether one plane is better than the other is hard to say and I think it depends on the perspective and flying style of the pilot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You hit the head of the nail. keyword=patience
But not in that regard. While you must have patience in combat style with other fighters not to make mistake, with Bf-109 you must have only one kind of patience: not to give up searching for the bandits in the sky.
Flying style has nothing to do with one fighter being superior to other. Those FW-190 ace wannabes would make themselves a favour if they had switch/stay with Bf-109.

But in our game I guess someone has gotta learn the hard way, and also there are quite a few guys that are in fact intentionally flying inferior type just to show their oppo's how good they are. Now I'd say that second group of FW-190, albeit small one numerically, is something to watch out for.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I have flown 109 vs 190 on both sides. It was how we used to train sometimes. From my experience, it will be the better pilot that wins. I don't think the planes are really comparable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only time you can win in FW-190 is to force superior Bf-109 to make a headon pass with equal chance of hit. Nothing else will help FW-190... he can't outfly Bf-109 nor escape.

You are right again; they are not comparable, because it would be kinda exaggerating to compare the very best fighter of the war with any other fighter in ww2...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">AerialTarget wrote:
The Focke-Wulf will never touch the Me-109. It is inconceivable. Me-109 is nearly as fast, accelerates a lot better, and turns many times as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fortunately there are more guys outhere who are not affected by lies and are not afraid to say the truth. But we can't underestimate power of lie thru a long time; actually it may cloud our reason -- Bf-109 was faster type than FW-190...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Fehler wrote:
Pfft... fly around until the baby 109 runs out of fuel, then vulch him! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now this particular individual is belong in the second group of FW-190 flyers... those skillful guys that are intentionally flying inferior type just to show their oppo's how good they are.
When I quoted you already, Fehler, did you checked the range of the Friedrichs? Last time I checked, they had enough for 3hrs in game http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif...---&gt;proof (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/5831032923/r/2001034923#2001034923)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">JG54_Arnie wrote:
The 190 would win, hands down. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What could be said of this guy that hasn't already been said? He was able to defeat K4 in Yak-3, so that kinda rings a bell.

His achievement is even bigger considering the fact that wasn't some 'yellow' or 'green' pilot he defeated, but a skilled, veteran guy. Proof (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/4711065623/r/4711065623#4711065623) -- for infidels only.

Hint for those who don't get it yet: when you see him outhere somewhere, put your machine on 110% throttle and run for the nearest friendly base in shallow dive. You just may live to tell the story.

King of the LW. Period.

MEGILE
08-08-2005, 05:26 AM
Relax gentlemen.

I'm not arguing what was superior in real life, as far as to say I really don't care. You are eating your own bait.

In game however, I just want to shoot some BF-109s down in the plane that is most capable of doing so. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Pirschjaeger
08-08-2005, 05:26 AM
Well, I can see the signs already. I'm out of this one guyz. Have fun. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz

MEGILE
08-08-2005, 05:27 AM
If you wait long enough Pirsch, someone might get called a Nazi.

Pirschjaeger
08-08-2005, 05:35 AM
Megile,

Do you use MSN? We can chat. I would be happy to host a server and fly 109 vs 190 with you. We used to do it often and it was a lot of fun and a good exercise. I can find other pilots to join us.

My MSN ID for anyone interested in this. ttbfranzen@hotmail.com

Flying is more fun than hopelessly debating.

Fritz

MEGILE
08-08-2005, 05:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:

Flying is more fun than hopelessly debating.

Fritz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ha.. so true. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
I will be online tonight hosting various COOPs.. I will probably throw in some 109 vs. 190 scenarios and watch the reaction of the reds.


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
"where's my 38Late?"

Pirschjaeger
08-08-2005, 05:42 AM
Ha ha ha, this debate is like arguing over whether it is hot or cold outside. It's simple enough to open a window or door but there are too many experts that don't need to do this. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Instead of debating, they should try it and find out for themselves, as I did. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz

MEGILE
08-08-2005, 05:55 AM
Annecdotal evidence from last year suggests this day was slightly mild, and I have weather reports to back it up.

JG54_Arnie
08-08-2005, 06:00 AM
Hmm, 190 vs 109 carnage, I'm in. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

MEGILE
08-08-2005, 06:02 AM
A6 vs. G6

Be there or be square.

Atomic_Marten
08-08-2005, 06:51 AM
Best thing about my somewhat funny story is that was indeed based on well known facts...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

karost
08-08-2005, 07:21 AM
That seem good point for one by one 190vs109, server like this will be the good place for LW friends for a top training.

Here is my idea,
I think about "spear" and "sword"€¦for over 2,000 years we know that "spear" is a king of weapon.

so I like to take 190 and play with spear tactic by keep high seed all the ways and hi-speed zoom climb and not crazy to play inside cycle of sword of bf-109 then 7 in 10 times 190 play offensive rules and 109 play only defensive. (I mean play close to full real not air quark http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif )

Ok in other way if I have to play in 109 then, how can I win? well.... it look challenging for bf-109's guy right ?I have to looking for a chance when my opponent make a mistake and I'm not.



S!

JG53Frankyboy
08-08-2005, 07:33 AM
why not, the Rumanians fought their former allies , the hungarians and germans, with their Bf109s.............

in VOW we will have that....its fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
109s vs 109s
ore 190s vs 109s

we use french markings instead of the 1944 rumanian roundels

Atomic_Marten
08-08-2005, 10:30 AM
For those who are still wondering on which one to place the bet, reading the following sentence may be of interest:

Once when one start to think: "Can I perform better in plane x than in plane y"... or even better "Am I able to outperform myself in FW-190 by flying Bf-109".

All doubts will vanish, because obvious can't be ignored. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://airwar.hihome.com/gwp/bf109/part3/gwp-bf109g-6-front.jpg

JG54_Arnie
08-08-2005, 10:34 AM
Not entirely AM.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Personally I actually do better in a FW. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Atomic_Marten
08-08-2005, 10:39 AM
Which of following do you use against Bf-109 while in FW-190:

Do you outclimb, outmanoeuver, or outrun the Bf-109?

JG54_Arnie
08-08-2005, 10:46 AM
Never flew against it, but I would dive and manouvre at speed, thats one thing where the 109 will be lacking.

But mainly, my statement is valid for dogfights with several players, usually ten at least. In a 1v1 situation the 109 would be the better choice, but duels dont happen that often in a dogfight server. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MEGILE
08-08-2005, 11:34 AM
BF-109 got a free pass in real life because it didn't face the FW-190.

By saying the 109 is superior to the 190 infers that the Spitfire is also, due to the very similar performance of the two planes.
However, circa 1941, we know what happened to Spitfires when they first met their Focke enemy.

But that's real life... this is in game. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Chadburn
08-08-2005, 12:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
BF-109 got a free pass in real life because it didn't face the FW-190.

By saying the 109 is superior to the 190 infers that the Spitfire is also, due to the very similar performance of the two planes.
However, circa 1941, we know what happened to Spitfires when they first met their Focke enemy.

But that's real life... this is in game. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Aircraft Comparison FW 190A-9 and Bf 109 AS/MW 50 - From A German Report
HP 5156
Report from JG 11 on 29th [October 1944] on mock air battle between Fw 190A-9 and Bf 109 AS/MW 50.

A Schwarm of Me 109 at 8,000 metres climbed up to attack a Rotte of Fw 190 at 10,000 metres. On the turn with 1.1 boost, the Me 109 Schwarm out climbed the Fw 190 Rotte by about 200 metres and at the same time without fully opened throttles and not flying flat out, they out turned the Fw 190 Rotte.

First attack was from above and behind with 1.1 boost and flaps retracted and a normal steep turn without opening to maximum possible speed, the Fw 190A-9 was easily overtaken and out turned.

Second attack from behind and below on the number one of the Rotte, aircraft was easily overtaken, out turned and outstripped in the inside turn.

On full throttle it is easily possible to out climb the A-9 without losing position since speed can be reduced by throttling back and doing very tight turns."

food for thought, anyway. Would be interesting to see how the game models this http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Atomic_Marten
08-08-2005, 12:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG54_Arnie:
Never flew against it, but I would dive and manouvre at speed, thats one thing where the 109 will be lacking.

But mainly, my statement is valid for dogfights with several players, usually ten at least. In a 1v1 situation the 109 would be the better choice, but duels dont happen that often in a dogfight server. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fair and honest answer Arnie. I appreciate that. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
------------------------------------------------
And yes... after Chadburn's post I see that this issue is solved.

So we can go back talking just how awesome Bf-109 was compared to other contemporary fighters...http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

PBNA-Boosher
08-08-2005, 01:04 PM
We need an Su-27 vs. 109/190 server. Compared to what I hear around here about n00b planes and UFO's, the Sukhoi ought to make it easier for the LW crowd.

MEGILE
08-08-2005, 01:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:

So we can go back talking just how awesome Bf-109 was compared to other contemporary fighters...http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The BF-109 outclased the Hurricane in 1940 no doubt. Go start a thread on that topic, and I will join you there.

This thread however, is how ingame the Focke Wulf is best. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Atomic_Marten
08-08-2005, 03:30 PM
Hey no prob, you should mention that in the thread title and I would be probably too disgusted to open it.

&lt;yuk&gt;http://free-vk.t-com.hr/domagoj/smileys/yuk.gif

LStarosta
08-08-2005, 03:35 PM
I will smite thee with my Ta-152. All you n00bs will feel my supreme wrath. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

faustnik
08-08-2005, 03:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
ingame the Focke Wulf is best. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You is right.

MEGILE
08-08-2005, 03:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:


You is right. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Oleg thought so too.

Pirschjaeger
08-08-2005, 10:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
"where's my 38Late?" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your P-38Late?

Dr. FwA5 caught it, gave it a lead injection, and now it's "The late P-38". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fritz

MEGILE
08-09-2005, 04:15 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Took me a few seconds to get it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif