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View Full Version : Ship's wake and bow wave.



h3pilot
07-09-2004, 01:37 PM
Pacific Fighters developement images look great with one exception.

As a U.S. Navy pilot, I'd like to comment that while the water graphics look great, the wake and bow wave on the ships look too small and whispy.
A ship traveling at a modest speed leaves a substantial wake in the water that can trail for a good quarter mile and is very white in color. The bow wave also extends well away and back from the bow and is visible from high altitude (it's only white very near the bow though). High speed wake and bow wave are larger and even more visible.

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/carriers/cv-9a.jpg

h3pilot
07-09-2004, 01:37 PM
Pacific Fighters developement images look great with one exception.

As a U.S. Navy pilot, I'd like to comment that while the water graphics look great, the wake and bow wave on the ships look too small and whispy.
A ship traveling at a modest speed leaves a substantial wake in the water that can trail for a good quarter mile and is very white in color. The bow wave also extends well away and back from the bow and is visible from high altitude (it's only white very near the bow though). High speed wake and bow wave are larger and even more visible.

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/carriers/cv-9a.jpg

Yellonet
07-09-2004, 02:06 PM
Yep... this image shows what kind of wake we have now, also the ship seems to float on an invisible plane.

http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/devupdate/210504/grab0006.jpg


- Yellonet

owlwatcher
07-09-2004, 03:23 PM
I agree on your observation.
The wake should be more visable.
Hope this gets some attention.

SKULLS_Exec01
07-09-2004, 03:58 PM
Yep agree!! If the game engine can do it - then it should be included - but will it cost us many FPS?? maybe a switch in graphics config to adjust for better FPS if so...BUMP

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/skulls/images/Sigs/skulls_sig-Exec01A.gif (http://skulls98.tk)
SKULLS_Exec
CO of The SKULLS Squadron

owlwatcher
07-09-2004, 04:29 PM
Bumping this one

Really do not care how much it effects the FPS. Seeing a ship location is more important then the FPS.

heywooood
07-09-2004, 05:38 PM
maybe they can enhance it - this is a work in progress after all...

Personally - I dont mind if they leave it alone to get other more visible things right.

It is a flight sim so as long as those things we will be interacting most with look right - the bow wave can be whatever... the wake is more important because you will see that on approaches and so it will be in your view longer... just my oppinion..



http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"Check your guns"

Latico
07-09-2004, 06:06 PM
Myself, I plan to FLY this sim, not SURF it.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

heywooood
07-09-2004, 06:54 PM
Penguins Adam bomb thread is over there. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif



http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"Check your guns"

Fliger747
07-09-2004, 08:09 PM
Nice pic of the Sara or the Lex, still with 8" guns, however the Corsair (F4U-1A?) departing, with the "hood" closed as well! A graphics demo I guess.

Spending a good portion of my time these days flying across the Pacific, I'll second the visibility of the wakes as important, besides radar, it's the best clue, and the faster the ship, the better!

Ships with a fine entry and little to no bulbous forefoot often do have a fine slicing verticle component to the bow wave, in smooth seas.

Yellonet
07-10-2004, 03:37 AM
It's probably a F4U-1D, that is an old picture BTW, so hopefully it doesn't look like that now.


- Yellonet

Xanterphile
07-10-2004, 05:19 AM
ok wait, will we be landing on the ships?
If we do that will kick some serious *** http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Crazy eyes 0_o
http://www.kgaming.za.net/e107_files/public/27_cowboy_007_copy.jpg

|CoB|_Spectre
07-10-2004, 08:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by owlwatcher:
Bumping this one

Really do not care how much it effects the FPS. Seeing a ship location is more important then the FPS.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm, I dunno owlwatcher, I think it might mean more than you think. If there is a substantial framerate hit in trying to more accuratly model them, it could noticeably affect gameplay if you get ships, planes, smoke and AAA in the vicinity of a carrier attack. Mass AAA, particularly from ships, already has a profound effect on fps as do many other things like parachutes, high density scenery around detailed cities and such. One area I hope doesn't transfer to PF is the FB visual effects of takeoff dust and ridiculously exaggerated runway/taxi way bumps. Both of those effects were momentary curiosities that got old quick and contributed little to the game, IMHO.

owlwatcher
07-10-2004, 09:08 AM
Seeing the ship either landing or attacking is very important.The wake you should see first .At least a ship that is doing some speed.
I assuming online that the CV will not move. So this should make the online crowd happy.As it will not effect the FPS.
I play off line and have made convoys of around 30-35 ships. You have to be almost right on top of them to see them. To late to setup a attack. There was talk of better visiablty but still you would see the wake before you spotted the ship.
Realisticly you should see the wake then AAA then the ship.
As to the Flak and FPS. I guess we all will have to cope with that problem. I have yet to see a mid war or later US Navy ship. So maybe the AAA will not be to bad.
The shoot the chutes should not be a problem all the light AA should solve that and most planes will be 1 to 2 man crews.
My point is the wake will be very important in the game play. If it hurts the FPS so let it. Find some where else to cut back so as not to hurt FPs.
There are no land marks so any help would be a blessing.

owlwatcher
07-10-2004, 09:18 AM
Look at this photo
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020326.jpg

http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/03a.htm

Seems the CV should have afine slicing verticle component. So the game designer did a good job on this . Only the trailing wake needs to be improved.

thomb314
07-10-2004, 09:37 AM
I'm no expert, but here's what I think:
The way water is done in PF does not allow realistic bow waves and wakes from ships.
It seems all they can do is to add effects on top of the undisturbed water. They are unable to actually disturb the water surface. This goes for every other sim I've seen too, including Lock On and Comanche 4. Even in screenshots (http://www.gamer.no/bilde.php?produktid=16112&bildeurl=././bilder/spill/silent_hunter_3/46.jpg) from the upcoming Silent Hunter III this limitation is easy to notice. (But this shot shows it can be done quite nicely anyway)

My guess is we have to live with this for a while. Being able to disturb the water surface may require a completely different method that needs more computing power.

I have however seen a demo from nvidia, where a small boat creates a nice bow wave in great looking water. In a year or two maybe?

The nvidia water video can be found at the bottom of this (http://developer.nvidia.com/object/sdk_home.html) page.

Thomas B

[This message was edited by thomb314 on Sat July 10 2004 at 08:48 AM.]