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TCDwhitehand
03-24-2008, 08:23 PM
After playing exclusively with sniper rifles for the past several days i have came to the conclusion that they are far weaker than every other gun classification. I unlocked the l96 ages ago and use it most of the time, however, i have tried all of the sniper rifles in the game. Several other people i have talekd to agree with me, so i thought i would post here and get the input of the community. Here are my reasons why:

1. The accuracy of a sniper rifle while zoomed in, standing, and strafing is quite low. Therefore you really have to stand still to be able to guarantee a shot that is going to hit where you are aiming, and even when standing completely still i have had several shots miss their target while aiming exactly on a stationary enemy's head. So basically you have to be totally still or lucky to kill an enemy. You could argue that this is because snipers are meant to be a tactical weapon, and that a sniper should not be seen by his target therefore being still shouldn't being a problem. Let's be real... There are very few suitable locations for a sniper that arent obvious and frequently checked by enemy players. I typically end up in a fire fight with an assault rifle player in which i HAVE to move to survive long enough to zoom in and fire, thus my accuracy suffers and i typically miss even if my crosshair is right on my enemy.

2. Maps are very small. Sure there are a few decent sniper spots you could find in every map, even villa, but the few spots i found in villa are easily flanked. The only three decent but still not good spots i found on villa are A. in the bathroom. B. on top of the roof near the fast ropes. and C. Outside in the garden. The same is true of quite a few maps, there are no great sniper spots in just about any map, and maps like villa are pretty much a joke to even try to use a sniper on.

3. Assault rifles are just as accurate as a sniper rifle. Lets compare snipers to assault rifles. If you stand still with an assualt rifle, or peak out from a wall, you iwll have a very small cone of fire. You can pretty much guarantee a headshot with any assault rifle as long as you stand still. At any range. Therefore an assault rifle has the same accuracy as a sniper rifle on its first shot. That being said snipers are easier to aim in the VERY few areas of the game where there is even enough range for it to matter. Assault rifles are also more accurate when moving if you aim down your sights or scope because you can obviously fire more than one shot. It takes 1 shot to kill so with a good aim in about a 10 shot burst you should get a headshot no matter how much you are moving. Of course assault rifles are also much more effective in close quarters.

My sudgested changes:
1. Increase the accuracy of sniper shots while moving
2. Take the on screen crosshair out of the game, and force players to use their iron sights or scopes. (extreme)
3. Give sniper rifles a customization option of a 3 or 4 x scope or some other kind of scope option.

I think at least #1 should be done, 2 is a bit extreme, and 3 is just a lot of work for the developers.

Post your thoughts, please keep it civil and dont flame. If you completely disagree just post why and your thoughts. No need to be rude about it. Sorry for the long post http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Surfjayce
03-24-2008, 08:37 PM
Well to be honest i think No.2 your more extreme suggestion is my favorite and the most likely to benifit your problem, the reason behind the inaccuracy of a moving sniper is the same as the reason for it being such a long barrel, the barrels are long to keep a high velocity bullet straiter for longer before it leaves the weapon so any movement of that weapon would obviously have a massive effect on its accuracy, so its either keep still of use an assault rifle.

i like this post, its friendly and thought provoking and i really really do love the sound of idea No2 .... please ubi have a think about that and maybe impliment it in a kind of hardcore mode http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Want2Snipe
03-24-2008, 09:07 PM
Sniper rifles are only good for long distance shots, so if you are being pwned in CQB's or short maps, grow a bigger pair and step up to an Assault weapon... trust me, it won't kill you to do so. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Making the sniper rifle more accurate while moving? what's next, allowing to paint your nails while you throw grenades? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

RAizzle
03-24-2008, 09:12 PM
I think the sniper rifles are too easy to use. When aiming, it doesn't seem like the cross-hairs sway at all. The maps I've played on seem to short for a 6X scope so maybe they should throw in an ACOG or the like. That would be pretty fun for Team Leader or Assassination if they ever put it back in. Running to the extraction point as the Dr. Phil at Calypso with Snipers shooting at you was the funnest evaar.

Sniper rifles seem OK to me other than that, but like I said, I've only played at relatively close distance maps. So I'd have to agree with #3. I'm loving that SR-25 SD, but I've almost unlocked the L96 A.W.

TRIOXINTARMAN
03-24-2008, 09:26 PM
Obviously you have no real world experience with firearms or military service. Snipers use bipods and a spotter and are usually prone to get the magic one shot one kill. You would never see a USMC sniper running around with his rifle trying to do close quarter tactics. One major difference which you seem to know nothing about is the sheer size and weight of a real sniper rifle vs an assault weapon....try wielding one and you would know the reason for being prone to fire it. Barrel diameter ie weight = greater accuracy. If they did anything to improve sniping it would be to allow players to lay prone.

bOybLu1985
03-24-2008, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by TRIOXINTARMAN:
Obviously you have no real world experience with firearms or military service. Snipers use bipods and a spotter and are usually prone to get the magic one shot one kill. You would never see a USMC sniper running around with his rifle trying to do close quarter tactics. One major difference which you seem to know nothing about is the sheer size and weight of a real sniper rifle vs an assault weapon....try wielding one and you would know the reason for being prone to fire it. Barrel diameter ie weight = greater accuracy. If they did anything to improve sniping it would be to allow players to lay prone.

exactly, its funny how many 13 year olds thing that a sniper really runs and shoots, a sniper picks a spot and doesnt move, most modern sniper rifles are extremely difficult, if not impossible, to shoot standing, but for games they make it possible, you shouldnt complain about anything with sniper rifles

TheUBERspectre
03-24-2008, 09:47 PM
Honestly, I don't think it's the sniper rifle's fault, it's the level designer's fault. Like you said, there are very few good sniping spots, and even then, there really is no point to using a sniper since you could use an assault rifle with a 6X scope on Single shot. Maybe they should take out the 6X scope (for ARs). I'm not saying I want them to, but to make snipers more effective, that would be the thing to do.

RoyalPhoenix
03-24-2008, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by TRIOXINTARMAN:
Obviously you have no real world experience with firearms or military service. Snipers use bipods and a spotter and are usually prone to get the magic one shot one kill. You would never see a USMC sniper running around with his rifle trying to do close quarter tactics. One major difference which you seem to know nothing about is the sheer size and weight of a real sniper rifle vs an assault weapon....try wielding one and you would know the reason for being prone to fire it. Barrel diameter ie weight = greater accuracy. If they did anything to improve sniping it would be to allow players to lay prone.

Do you have anything valid that relates to Rainbow Six's gameplay or do you just like to reference your "real world experience with firemarms" in order to impress children? Rainbow six is a tactical shooter but not a simulation. For example- Ace Combat is an Aerial Combat game but it is NOT a flight combat simulator. Rainbow needs a mix of both realism and balance in its gameplay.

To the OP: I have found that the snipers lose a lot of their value not because they are too weak or innaccurate but because most assault rifles are comparably accurate, only slightly weaker, and are capable of more rapid fire. While a SR is limited only to scoped shots (excluding tape.....) and long ranges, the ARs function extremely well at any range. Because of this, the SR is not nearly as attractive as the AR in many cases and when an SR and AR battle it out (even at extreme ranges) the AR is never at too large of a disadvantage.

I have found that the Semi Auto SRs tend to work best (especially at combatting ARs at long range). This coupled with a strong sidearm such as a Bull or Deagle gives a sniper survivability at any range. (I tend to use Bolt Actions for killing other Snipers). I agree that SRs are not viable on every map, but that is not really a big deal and snipers need to simply use other weapons. In the end though I think that given the right maps and circumstances, snipers can be the most dominating players in a match. They might not always have the highest kills but the way a sniper can control where the enemy can operate is a sniper's most valuable asset. Think about how well a good sniper can control the middle ground, roofs, windows, and porches in a TD on Streets for example. Not many other weapons can completely restrict 75% of the map for the enemy like that. ARs can seem to infringe upon a Sniper's long range but tactful play and a quick trigger finger should be all it takes to keep the game under control. Good Hunting.

Stiler
03-24-2008, 09:56 PM
The main problem is teh lv's, there just too dang small for any decent spots and don't provide much use for snipers over assault rifles or anything.

I find them a lot more useful in single player then MP.

They need more open/larger maps for sniper rifles to be really useful.

bharlan2002
03-24-2008, 10:00 PM
I'll definitely agree that there are too few good sniper spots on most maps and I'll agree that the sniper rifles seem to be a lot weaker this time around.

My case...

I was taking cover behind a pillar in Import/Export and I saw and enemy about 20 feet in front of me but with his back to me. I turn peek out hit him with 1 shot from my PSG1, he doesnt go down, I hit him with a second shot from my PSG2, still he doesnt go down, finally my third shot dropped him...

3 hits to take someone down with a sniper rifle? 2 to the upper torso neck and the fetal shot to his head? I mean come on 3 shots for a kill with a sniper at near point blank range?

Bleh I've always thought sniping in the Vegas games was pretty pointless or nearly impossible to have decent success at, I was hoping they would fix it this time around but it looks like they didnt... that or I need a lot more practice.

TRIOXINTARMAN
03-24-2008, 10:07 PM
I'm not trying to impress anyone only stating what is common knowledge. They include the sniper rifles for certain missions on large maps. If it bothers you so bad and you are not prepared to sit in one spot hiding to get one kill then don't use it. I see people like you everyday running through the maps with sniper rifles and watch them panic when they miss lol. If you are happy with an assault rifle then use it but you can't have both there has to be a tradeoff. If you go to a large outdoor map and use a 6x scope with an assault rifle on single shot it will do ok but nowhere near as accurate as a 12x scope on a sniper. Tactical or simulation it still is based on the physics of gravity in relation to bullet velocity etc....Try going to Iraq and testing your skills and let us know how you fare. You are correct about the assault rifles being accurate and they are to a point but not at real sniper distances.

Pinjani10
03-24-2008, 10:21 PM
I personally snipe in pairs, one guy (usually my bud) snipe and I cover him with the Aug Para. Sniping is not a solo job in R6 because you can't hear enemy footsteps.

I don't know what your talking about AR being as strong as Snipers. Snipers are also much easier to aim and fire (no recoil to deal with).

Although proning would be nice. And acog as well

RoyalPhoenix
03-24-2008, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by TRIOXINTARMAN:
1-If it bothers you so bad and you are not prepared to sit in one spot hiding to get one kill then don't use it.
2-I see people like you everyday running through the maps with sniper rifles and watch them panic when they miss lol.
3-If you are happy with an assault rifle then use it but you can't have both there has to be a tradeoff.
4-Tactical or simulation it still is based on the physics of gravity in relation to bullet velocity etc....
5-Try going to Iraq and testing your skills and let us know how you fare.
6-You are correct about the assault rifles being accurate and they are to a point but not at real sniper distances.

1-It doesn't bother me "so bad" and I never said it did.
2-I don't panic, I rarely "run around with sniper rifles," and if I do leave my sniping position I have a raging bull drawn, not a sniper rifle. So no, you clearly don't seem to play with people like me. "lol"
3-NSS. I use ARs. NSS there needs to be a tradeoff. I am not sure what I said that made you respond with that.
4-As far as I am aware this game hardly bases any of its bullet calculations on actual physics. There is no noticable drop in trajectories and the bullets seem likely to have infinite speed from barrel to target (minus lag or drops in fps). Even the DMG ratings of the guns is structured around a necessity for balance rather than any real world numbers. Case in point: Shotguns.
5-That is unrealistic and idiotic to suggest. If you were attempting to make a point it didn't work. I was commenting on Rainbow Six Vegas 2. It's a video game. I play it. I am also not sure what gave you any indication of my "skills" with real firearms. Everything I am referring to in my posts takes place in video games. I don't give a rat's a.s.s about your impression of reality while I play a VIDEO GAME.
6-Considering the lack of "real sniper distances" in any of Vegas' levels your point is moot. The developers should still seek balance with the ranges that are established in the maps of the game. I believe that they have done a decent job of doing so.

To quote the Main Gun Developer of the Ubisoft team: "These consoles are so powerful, when you fire a bullet we could factor all of it in: windfall, range, everything about the history of that specific weapon, friction values for the barrel, how many times it's been fired since it was last cleaned," says Theiren. "We could make it as anally realistic as possible. But we're not trying to make a live simulator."


"It's about taking the personality of a weapon, and making it shine in the game,"
Source (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/4255750.html)

Recaldy17
03-24-2008, 10:30 PM
Maps are too small for sniper rifles.

rootsney
03-25-2008, 12:18 AM
Snipers need to be made to ignore armor. If they hit in the upper body they should kill almost every time unless they are wearing full armor. none of that "I shot him in the shoulder (which is infront of his chest) and he doesn't go down. And the health regeneration is waaaaaaaaaay to fast. It need's to be 3 or 4 times slower. I can be blackscreened and ready to shoot again in 4 seconds. Change that to 15. Because of the speed of the regeneration, it makes snipers virtually useless if you do not kill on the first shot.

AKmarksman
03-25-2008, 03:41 AM
Which is why I've used a MP5 or a UMP45 with a rifle scope in the RBV1(before UBI effed it up with "patches"..making all the guns useless as a red ryder bbgun with as much power)..if I do my work..the MP5 or UMP45 can be a really nice "sniper" sub gun.
Using the M468 with a rifle scope is better than using a sniper rifle..and I can suppress it to.



Originally posted by TCDwhitehand:
After playing exclusively with sniper rifles for the past several days i have came to the conclusion that they are far weaker than every other gun classification. I unlocked the l96 ages ago and use it most of the time, however, i have tried all of the sniper rifles in the game. Several other people i have talekd to agree with me, so i thought i would post here and get the input of the community. Here are my reasons why:

1. The accuracy of a sniper rifle while zoomed in, standing, and strafing is quite low. Therefore you really have to stand still to be able to guarantee a shot that is going to hit where you are aiming, and even when standing completely still i have had several shots miss their target while aiming exactly on a stationary enemy's head. So basically you have to be totally still or lucky to kill an enemy. You could argue that this is because snipers are meant to be a tactical weapon, and that a sniper should not be seen by his target therefore being still shouldn't being a problem. Let's be real... There are very few suitable locations for a sniper that arent obvious and frequently checked by enemy players. I typically end up in a fire fight with an assault rifle player in which i HAVE to move to survive long enough to zoom in and fire, thus my accuracy suffers and i typically miss even if my crosshair is right on my enemy.

2. Maps are very small. Sure there are a few decent sniper spots you could find in every map, even villa, but the few spots i found in villa are easily flanked. The only three decent but still not good spots i found on villa are A. in the bathroom. B. on top of the roof near the fast ropes. and C. Outside in the garden. The same is true of quite a few maps, there are no great sniper spots in just about any map, and maps like villa are pretty much a joke to even try to use a sniper on.

3. Assault rifles are just as accurate as a sniper rifle. Lets compare snipers to assault rifles. If you stand still with an assualt rifle, or peak out from a wall, you iwll have a very small cone of fire. You can pretty much guarantee a headshot with any assault rifle as long as you stand still. At any range. Therefore an assault rifle has the same accuracy as a sniper rifle on its first shot. That being said snipers are easier to aim in the VERY few areas of the game where there is even enough range for it to matter. Assault rifles are also more accurate when moving if you aim down your sights or scope because you can obviously fire more than one shot. It takes 1 shot to kill so with a good aim in about a 10 shot burst you should get a headshot no matter how much you are moving. Of course assault rifles are also much more effective in close quarters.

My sudgested changes:
1. Increase the accuracy of sniper shots while moving
2. Take the on screen crosshair out of the game, and force players to use their iron sights or scopes. (extreme)
3. Give sniper rifles a customization option of a 3 or 4 x scope or some other kind of scope option.

I think at least #1 should be done, 2 is a bit extreme, and 3 is just a lot of work for the developers.

Post your thoughts, please keep it civil and dont flame. If you completely disagree just post why and your thoughts. No need to be rude about it. Sorry for the long post http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

ALIHISGREAT
03-25-2008, 03:52 AM
the advantage of snipers is that they are very powerful so will kill with a body shot in most cases... although i do believe snipers should have the on screen crosshair like all other gun classes, it should just be very sensitive to movement and quite large.

and you made the point that ARs are as accurate and are able to get headshots... well any gun (shotguns excluded) if aimed at someones head whilst you are completely stationary will kill them at any range... this is why SMG snipng is possible. the way CoD combated this was the 2 shot headshot on the normal modes which is quite good but i'm happy with vegas as it is more realistic.

Alasdair.

TCDwhitehand
03-25-2008, 04:29 AM
Yeah to all of you who think i dont understand how a sniper works in real life... that is a stupid assumption. I understand exactly how they work. I dont play video games for realism, i play them for fun, and in order for me to have fun they need to be balanced. Im prety sure soldiers usinng assault rifles dont have little white crosshairs just appear in their sight for some reason..... How is that more realistic than a sniper being able to move and fire? To whoever said being a sniper = no balls... You're also an idiot. In my opinion using a sniper on a difficult close range map takes a lot more balls than whipping out my 500 tactical and spraying and praying...

II_Donell_II
03-25-2008, 04:57 AM
Actually, they are extremely deadly if used right in the right maps. The convention centre is a great example. Especially on Total conquest. You can cover both satillites A and B.

I got my sniper achievement from it, ranging between 9 and 20 kills per game with the SR-25 SD. (Actually the best sniper imo. A silent sniper is a deadly one.) I never missed a standing headshot. Just stand still, wait a second then shoot.

The one thing I think should be improved for the sniper is the power. I think body shots mid range should be instant kills but it always takes two even at short range...

adarwinter
03-25-2008, 05:36 AM
i agree with the OP.
in the game there should be a balance. \right now it seems like the balance is oof a bit.
ARs are too accurate when not zoomed as the SMG a lil. sniper rifles should have the biggest advantage in long ranges by having no bullet damage drop and be DEAD accurate.

in a gamelike vegas that has only small maps weapons should be less accurate in general than their counterparts in real life, since in real life the fights take place on a bigger veriaty of ranges and no one would take a sniper rifle to a location like the maps in vegas2.
in order to give SR a purpose in vegas2 they need to have a distinct advantage in certain areas (damage and accuracy).

and the issue with maps too small in vegas2 - that is true but that is the nature of the R6 games. theres nothing to be done here.
soon everyone will know where the snipers are usually hiding and will know to be careful in these areas and will predict sniper pop-outs and snipers will disappear. that's what i think.
COD4 is great for snipers but even there the sniping rifles are not a good weapon in the smaller maps and even in COD4's much larger map number and much larger maps most of the sniper spots are now predictable. at least in COD4 no one relies on a cover system so making up cover spots is easier, especially with the ability to lean and get weirder angles.

TRIOXINTARMAN
03-25-2008, 05:44 AM
Once again why on earth would they increase accuracy while moving? The game is for fun but that is a joke and totally unrealistic. Then you spout off about forcing players to use iron sights which is something even more realistic which you are against? If you want to run around and pop heads go play Halo with fantasy weapons. The developers used real weapons for a reason....to add realism and have a basis for the stats. What type of a moron and I\m not saying you uses a sniper rifle using wall cover at 20 feet and misses the headshot from behind as someone said earlier lmao then fires 2 more shots to bring down the enemy. If you can't headshot someone from behind at that range you should be ashamed or maybe get the Lee Harvey Oswald achievement for getting off 3 shots that fast without the sap even realizing he was shot.

Banks1978
03-25-2008, 07:59 AM
Two things:

1) Snipers are gay. FACT!

2) When I run around in real life, weapon or not, I see a little white cross-hair which represents where my fists are pointing at.

Tim_the_Redd
03-25-2008, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by Rogue__Spear:
Why in the blue hell would you fire a sniper rifle while running?


Originally posted by WarHawk722:
*tries to run and scope with a sniper*

OW!!! MY EYE!!!

if you think that running and aiming is easy, tape a laser pointer to end of a broom, go outside at night and try to keep the dot in one place whilst running. now imagine that when you don't have sights and don't have a magic little fairy that tells you where your bullet is going to hit.


Originally posted by j_dunn:

If I was running in real life with a sniper rifle I would make sure it was slung across my back and I would have out and equipped either my pistol (if working with a spotter who SHOULD have an assault rifle), or an assault rifle myself. There is a reason snipers carry pistols and assault rifles, because when they move they can't exactly pause, remove the lense cover on their scope, kneel, take a shot, recover their scope, and run again (and you do not move with your scope uncovered those things are way too fragile and way to expensive). Also with the average size of a sniper rifle it makes it kind of difficult, and unwieldy to take cover and return fire on the run when you are using it for your primary weapon.


A sniper is an infantry soldier or other serviceman (e.g. police officer) who specializes in shooting from a concealed position over longer ranges than regular infantry, often with a specially designed or adapted sniper rifle. A sniper requires skill in marksmanship, camouflage, and field craft. Military snipers are adept in carrying out methods of infiltration, reconnaissance, and observation techniques as well.

Concealment being a concealed location. Camoflaughe and fieldcraft being NOT moving and taking few accurate shots.

FURKING_AMAZING
03-25-2008, 08:51 AM
All the maps in Vegas2 seem waaay too small or congested for sniper rifles.

One thing I liked abour RFOM was the map size, Machester had some good sniper locations.
Vegas2 needs some maps with long open expanses, I dont mean massive maps with lots of rooms, but nice open maps, Streets seems the best really, but its still a bit close imo.

Rogue__Spear
03-25-2008, 10:31 AM
Trainyard is really the only viable sniping map, but the positions for sniping are too obvious.

Tim_the_Redd
03-25-2008, 10:33 AM
The trainyard-type portion of Oil Refinery is also a good place to snipe (atleast on T-hunt)

Rogue__Spear
03-25-2008, 10:36 AM
It is but its far too open.

I still maintain the best sniper rifle in the Vegas series is a silenced AK-47 on Single shot.


Or those new 7.62 AKSU-74 Assault rifles.

Tim_the_Redd
03-25-2008, 10:41 AM
G3 works pretty well on single shot too.

I do love those 7.62mm AKS-74Us they've been talking about.

Rogue__Spear
03-25-2008, 10:44 AM
They work great, don't they?

TCDwhitehand
03-25-2008, 12:51 PM
I still dont see how anyone can say having a feasible amount of accuracy while moving with a sniper is more unrealistic than having a white crosshair on your screen that is dead accurate without even aiming downy our sights. Honestly if ubi is going to make all the maps relatively small, fine, but weapon types should be balanced to an extent, and all weapons should have an array of uses in all maps. Honestly if Ubi tested the game and realized how gimp snipers would be they should have just left them out of the game in the first place because they're useless on about 50% of the maps, and about as good as an assault rifle at long range on other maps while still much much worse at close and medium range.

Tim_the_Redd
03-25-2008, 12:59 PM
I use bolt actions all the time, and I do pretty well with them. I spent most of my time on V1 with an M40A1 and a 92FS. PISTOLS are the solution to snipers in close combat. That's why snipers carry them!

TRIOXINTARMAN
03-25-2008, 01:03 PM
Fighter pilots carry pistols too but you don't see roll down windows in the jets.

Tim_the_Redd
03-25-2008, 01:14 PM
Are you serious?

<STRIKE>Snipers</STRIKE> Marksmen use Sniper Rifles to engage targets at long range from a concealed location. While NOT MOVING and from a PRONE stance in a concealed location. They carry pistols or subs for closer ranges.

A real sniper team would consist of one man using a sniper rifle. His spotter, carrying an Assault rifle and Binoculars, would do all the necessary range-finding and mathematics involved. The sniper would have his rifle slung and pistol/sub drawn until he was in a concealed location and ready to take a shot.

Moving and firing a Sniper Rifle is nearly impossible because of:

A. The sheer size and weight of it would make it nearly impossible to hold (unless your Master Chief).
B. Lack of open sights (if there's any they'd be covered by the scope and unusable when moving)

TCDwhitehand
03-25-2008, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by Tim_the_Redd:
I use bolt actions all the time, and I do pretty well with them. I spent most of my time on V1 with an M40A1 and a 92FS. PISTOLS are the solution to snipers in close combat. That's why snipers carry them!

Yeah, im not saying its impossible to do well with snipers, im a pretty good player and i usualyl have 2 or 3 kd ratio against decent players, but in very competitive gameplay or just against a very good group of players i dont see the point when assault rifles can have just about the same accuracy and range when skillfully aimed.

TCDwhitehand
03-25-2008, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Tim_the_Redd:
Are you serious?

<STRIKE>Snipers</STRIKE> Marksmen use Sniper Rifles to engage targets at long range from a concealed location. While NOT MOVING and from a PRONE stance in a concealed location. They carry pistols or subs for closer ranges.

A real sniper team would consist of one man using a sniper rifle. His spotter, carrying an Assault rifle and Binoculars, would do all the necessary range-finding and mathematics involved. The sniper would have his rifle slung and pistol/sub drawn until he was in a concealed location and ready to take a shot.

Moving and firing a Sniper Rifle is nearly impossible because of:

A. The sheer size and weight of it would make it nearly impossible to hold (unless your Master Chief).
B. Lack of open sights (if there's any they'd be covered by the scope and unusable when moving)

Well first of all you cant even go prone in rsv2... but you're sudgesitng a sniper must have another player spot for him, must be crouched when firing, must be concealed even though there is nowhere to be concealed in an rsv2 map basically. Lets face it if this game were perfectly realistic snipers would be a complete joke. If they're going to be a viable weapon realism needs to be disregarded, not completely but to an extent.

Tim_the_Redd
03-25-2008, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by TCDwhitehand:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tim_the_Redd:
I use bolt actions all the time, and I do pretty well with them. I spent most of my time on V1 with an M40A1 and a 92FS. PISTOLS are the solution to snipers in close combat. That's why snipers carry them!

Yeah, im not saying its impossible to do well with snipers, im a pretty good player and i usualyl have 2 or 3 kd ratio against decent players, but in very competitive gameplay or just against a very good group of players i dont see the point when assault rifles can have just about the same accuracy and range when skillfully aimed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The ranges of this game make that true, I've never seen anything more than say 250m, well in the effective range of ARs.

The only viable sniping map was Marshalling Yard in V1 with it's longer ranges.

sparkiee18
03-25-2008, 01:41 PM
i think they should just release larger, downloadable, FREE maps. key word being FREE.

Spawn316
03-25-2008, 01:53 PM
I've always wondered why they even include snipers in the RSV series since it's catered to CQB. The .50 DESTROYED Rainbow Six Three, cuz all you had to do was run around and blindfire the weapon to rack up kills. If this were Ghost Recon, it'd be different, but SWAT teams and Special Forces teams that do building entries NEVER take sniper rifles. If a sniper's along for the ride, he's outside, hidden and usually prone. Very few of the maps have spots like this, and those that do, the "sniper spots" are in the spawn points away from the action.

These maps are too small with too little views of the map (ie good sniper vantage points) to effectively use a sniper rifle without running around with it, and that's cheesy and unrealistic. I think the snipers are fine as they are; if anything, they're too easy, as there's no sway in the crosshairs. You just line up your shot and squeeze the trigger. Any misses with it I'd attribute to lag, cuz I've never missed a shot with a sniper rifle after I've lined it up. CoD4 sniper rifles are much harder (and more realistic) to use.

Recaldy17
03-25-2008, 01:55 PM
I'm sorry that you can't sit in the back and wait for someone to give you an effortless 10 experience. Get a rifle and get in their face or go back to CoD4.

Hill-Dawg
03-25-2008, 01:57 PM
Someone posted about wanting Grenade Launchers and got flamed about how this is a CQB game. I was going to post why then do we need Sniper Rifles? Not that I think we need GL's....

Heck, is there even a need for scopes in the game? I opt for the extra capacity magazines and forgo a sight. I have better luck using the cross hairs. I haven't found anything you need scope to hit.

For "my game play", short burst from a silenced AR is a better option than a a single shot from a SR at long ranges...

LW-
03-25-2008, 01:59 PM
thier is only about 4 sniping maps they are

1. Kill House
2. Streets
3. cqb training
4. Murdertown

but thats it. also the patch for the servers is coming out on the 27 th of march. thats in two days

ALIHISGREAT
03-25-2008, 03:49 PM
sniping on Battlefield: Bad Company is great... you have to lead targets and account for bullet drop (i think) because the maps are soooooo big!!! i love it.... but for different reasons than vegas, the only reason snipers were included in my opinion was to please the masses as there is no need for them... i play rainbow for the tactical short and mid range stuff, the only time snipers are appropriate are for a challenge!

Mokalkins
03-25-2008, 04:18 PM
The main problem isnt the maps its the 1-2 second bullet lag when off host. Unless you live in the same state as the host its almost imposible to snipe a moving target.

Frakt0s
03-25-2008, 04:41 PM
To OP:

Host a game and restrict the Famas. It's really the only gun better than a sniper and its quite ******ed. Anyway, I don't use a sniper most of the time but I do restrict the Famas as it is overpowered.