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Flydutch
11-28-2004, 03:59 AM
I am new to this Forum, But have enjoyed many years of discussing ideas on the IL-2 Stormovik FB, and Pacific Fighters Forums.
I am following the development of the very Interesting "PT-Boats Knight of the Sea" Motor Torpedo Boat Sim.

And since I have Been seirously interested in The History of the WWII USN Submarine Fleet The U-Flotte der Kriegsmarine Or "Freikorps Doenitz" (As the German sailors called it)
And the Interesting history (For such a small Country!)of the "Koninklijke Onderzeedienst" (Royal Submarine Service of my native country.
Did You know that the Schnorkel happened to be a Invention of A Dutchman, And that the Kriegsmarine Developed their U-Boots secretly in Holland?

Anyway, I am impressed with the download movies of the SHIII site.

Especially with the research that seems to be put into this sim,
I am reading a lot of research myself.

The only things that suprise me about the demo movies is that the Crew is speaking American-English?
Is this a feature for the Larger English-speaking market or is their Also a German speech pack?
To me the Classic movie "Das Boot" sounds Outof place and unrealistic in English, a feature that comes on my 6 hour! DVD version.

The CGI crew even looks American with their Grownup & Athletic-muscular physics, and thight fitting chlothes, The German crews wouldlook less healty more boyish (Since a lot of them where Boys!)and there clothes would be verry 'baggy and shabby'(loose fitting and worn)

I am suprised on the other hand that A game that seems to be US-market foccused, Is about the Kriegsmarine Sub fleet only!
The US Navy has such a impressive history of Submarine Warfare, The Submarine even devellopes from the American Independence & Civil Wars.
Skipping the WWI the USN Submarine Fleet built up a Impressive record during WWII!
Is the Dramatic History of the doomed German fleet more apealing more exotic to the American public maybe?

The Us Fleet was Underdog at first to their German and Japanese counterparts but rose to become a very effective weapon with a impressiv amount of tonnage sunk.
With the Germans it was the reverse from "Vette buete und Gluecklige zeite" (Heavy Scores & Happy times)they where just hoping not to end up on the ocean floor Like most of them did in their 'Eiserne Sarge'(Iron Coffins)

So why not make this sim a Torough World War II Subsim and feature USN and maybe Brithish Subs aswell as German & Japanese!

This way this sim would become a exiting around the world (Pacific, Atlantic and Med) Subwarfare sim apealing to markets around the world and Intersting for Tonnage and Sub-Duels (Sub vs Sub)online!

Dominicrigg
11-28-2004, 04:19 AM
#Cool ideas!!

I am pretty certain (and hope) you can switch off the american accents and have german speech for more immersion. Also to do a sim on all the theatres of pacific and atlantic would be cool but too much work!!!

I guess They chose atlantic because it gives you a larger timescale (US came into war late)
But mainly its the most interesting to the largest demographics. Pacific is (mainly) of interest to americans. Atlantic is of interest to europe, and i guess america. Also they will no doubt bring in an add on pack for pacific later i guess.

Although saying that i guess america is the biggest buyer of games so you would guess they would go for pacific.
Just be glad they chose to do the atlantic war!!

(much more interesting weather in the atlantic http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif)

Yarrick_
11-28-2004, 05:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flydutch:
The US Navy has such a impressive history of Submarine Warfare, The Submarine even devellopes from the American Independence & Civil Wars.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But, the submarine in its modern idea, or at least in its WWII idea, was developed at the end of the S.XIX by Narcis Monturiol, a Spanish.
Think about this idea only for historical reasons, if Narc├┬*s developed its submarine in 1860, the Ictini I, what do you think it may have happened to the USA fleet when it attacked the Spanish Cuba in the 1900's, if the Spanish Navy had invested in its submarine? There were no ASW weapons at that time...

About the voices, they said you can choose between english or german.

Jose.MaC
11-28-2004, 07:28 AM
Isaac Peral added the utility to recharge batteries while in surface, a primitive periscope and torpedoes as the main weapon, thought Monturiol invented two hulls sub, developed some standards for safety (from emergency surface to regeneration of air), experimented with exotermic underwater navigation (a failure, soon changed to electrical system). Btw, both Itineo I and II were intended for industrial and rescue uses, not for war. Althought in his book developed the idea of torpedoes combats, he never provided a way to see the surface.

Yarrick, remember what happened to Peral after the complete succes of the trials of his Peral I (in 1890 shooted for FIRST TIME a torpedo underwater, a Whitehead 350 mm, ready enought for Cuba's war!): he was about to be imprisoned, falled into disgrace, etc.

USA's fleet was absolutely secure against Spanish submarines!

Of course, ground Spanish troops had Mausers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Yarrick_
11-28-2004, 10:15 AM
Yes, I was purposing to imagine what could have happened if the Spanish Navy had shown interest in subs as a weapon, and brought them to Cuba with the fleet.

SailorSteve
11-28-2004, 10:40 AM
Hi, Flydutch, and welcome!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Did You know that the Schnorkel happened to be a Invention of A Dutchman, And that the Kriegsmarine Developed their U-Boots secretly in Holland? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I had read that, and also that the very first workable submarine (actually an underwater rowboat) was also invented by a Ductchman, one Cornelius Drebbel, back in the 1600s.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The only things that suprise me about the demo movies is that the Crew is speaking American-English?
Is this a feature for the Larger English-speaking market or is their Also a German speech pack? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, they have said that it will be in English and German, just like SH2 was.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The CGI crew even looks American with their Grownup & Athletic-muscular physics, and thight fitting chlothes, The German crews wouldlook less healty more boyish (Since a lot of them where Boys!)and there clothes would be verry 'baggy and shabby'(loose fitting and worn) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yep. A lot of other people have complained about that as well.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I am suprised on the other hand that A game that seems to be US-market foccused, Is about the Kriegsmarine Sub fleet only! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The dev team gave their reasons for doing this in their FAQ. One reason they didn't mention, and I think it's a big one, is that they wanted to make up for SH2 having so many problems. They have also said that if SH3 sells well they will look into doing a U.S. Pacific version; also a possible surface warfare game, a la Destroyer Command. Although I myself would love to play a new U.S. sub sim, I have no complaints about going into the U-boats again.

Jose.MaC
11-28-2004, 10:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yarrick_:
Yes, I was purposing to imagine what could have happened if the Spanish Navy had shown interest in subs as a weapon, and brought them to Cuba with the fleet. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup! In such case, USA fleet surely would have a nastier time than their soldiers. Even with a rate like German's or USA's torpedoes in WWII, blockage had been break.

Seesack
11-29-2004, 08:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
So why not make this sim a Torough World War II Subsim and feature USN and maybe Brithish Subs aswell as German & Japanese! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would agree with that, if it would not be too largescaled for the developers. Although submarine-warfare was the point of main effort for the german side and not so much for the British, also some attacks from british subs against german ones (and reverse) took place, especially in the mediterraneum.

But generally submarines played a minor role from the british sight; due to that already before war the British commented submarines as to be "...Die Kriegsmarine des kleinen Mannes..."(The poor manÔ┬┤s navy).

On the contrary the Germans, who only could bring less warships into battle (because of an earlier signed - and accepted until 1939 - bilateral contract with England, which allowed them only to possess 30 % of the british warship-tonnage). So submarines could be their only chance to come through, since war began - although conservative thinking german admirals were proud of their (small number of) shining hitech battle-ships, wherefore D├┬Ânitz permanentely had to argue against them, when he boosted his concept of naval warfare effectiveness to put on submarines and nothing else.

More and more Hitler himself backed his little Admiral within that matter, when he e.g. even claimed later the "Dickschiffe" ("big ships" = battle-ships) better should be cut up and their artillery mounted stationary as coastal-defence batteries in Norway or so.

American submarine-warfare in pacific regions was quite another thing generallly; a separate war-scenario itself, so if you like it to be featured too, you in a way would claim two simulations in one. I think, this would go to far - but a few allied submarines would be allright, for example just to see the technical differences.

Flydutch
12-01-2004, 02:25 AM
Thnx forthe info!

Don't miss understand meI am verey into the U-Boot Flotte and pleased with the devellopment of this sim, just would be nice to see other WWII Subs aswel an have exiting on & Offline Anti-Sub Patrols!