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han freak solo
06-23-2005, 09:12 PM
After contemplating for months and months, and reading many, many posts on rudder pedals, I finally dove off the diving board and bought a set. Of rudder pedals.

--First, I tried to keep it cheap.
I unplugged my MS Sidewinder Precision 2 twisty stick, plugged in an old but underused Saitek ST220, and tried a Saitek R220 wheel and pedal set bought for $40 US. I was willing to "wire away" the steering wheel.

But, I couldn't handle the pedals. They didn't really support your feet, they didn't interconnect like rudder pedals, and they were on a 2 axis set up. The two axis set up meant that you had to hold a given pedal half way down to achieve a neutral rudder position. BAH! RETURNED THEY WERE!!

--Second, $$.
I picked out the CH Pro Pedals ($99 US from Fry's http://www.outpost.com). Most expensive external piece of hardware I ever bought for simming, even more than my good ol' TrackIr2. Holy cr@p, what did I just do? A pretty cool looking well made unit, though.

But, they move WAY too effortlessly. So simming is really difficult again. I haven't used my feet EVER on a PC. Aiming is difficult and "feeling" the rudder is a b1tch!! I'm looking at the turn and bank indicator hearing "step on the ball Master Solo".

I'm tempted to mount some sort of bungee cord like I've seen others do on their home made rudder rigs around these forums. Or, I'll retrain my feet and legs. Probably the latter.

The immediate plus side is taxiing the plane!! Too cool!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Another note. I thought this Saitek ST220 was really cr@ppy on upwards elevator deflection. Calibration shows it as OK. Then I realized after flying different AC, that 4.01 is modelling the "mush" of a pullout at slow airspeed. Sweet!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Han Freak Solo crashes another plane!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

horseback
06-23-2005, 09:46 PM
What is the rudder sensitivity you have set for Yaw in Inputs? If they're all 100, of course the CH pedals move too easily. In real life, the planes modelled in this sim were 'rudder hungry', that is, they took a LOT of rudder input. Get your Yaw settings down in a gradually increasing curve from left to right (start down around 10 or so), and see if that doesn't work better for you.

cheers

horseback

Tallyho1961
06-23-2005, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by han freak solo:
After contemplating for months and months, and reading many, many posts on rudder pedals, I finally dove off the diving board and bought a set. Of rudder pedals.


Got mine last Saturday - I know what you're going through. Cool though, isn't it?

han freak solo
06-23-2005, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by horseback:
What is the rudder sensitivity you have set for Yaw in Inputs? If they're all 100, of course the CH pedals move too easily. In real life, the planes modelled in this sim were 'rudder hungry', that is, they took a LOT of rudder input. Get your Yaw settings down in a gradually increasing curve from left to right (start down around 10 or so), and see if that doesn't work better for you.

cheers

horseback


I believe that "1RZ" is the CH pedals.

1X1 and 1Y1 are the joystick. Maybe I got it set wrong.

But, what I meant by being too effortless is that the actual pedal requires only a few pounds of force to move. I over react because of no resistance feel.

Any help or advice will be appreciated.

[rts_joystick]
X=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Y=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Z=0 0 2 5 10 18 32 45 65 85 100
RZ=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
FF=0
U=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
V=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1X=0 3 8 15 23 32 41 52 65 81 100 0
1Y=0 3 8 15 23 32 41 52 65 81 100 0
1RZ=0 0 2 5 10 18 32 45 65 85 100 0
1U=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1V=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1X1=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
1Y1=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
1U1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1V1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1Z1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1Z=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0

han freak solo
06-23-2005, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by Tallyho1961:
Got mine last Saturday - I know what you're going through. Cool though, isn't it?

Cool, but d@mn I suck at aiming now! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Actually, the P-47 works the best out of the half dozen I've tried with the pedals. The Bf-109 is giving me the most trouble.

Freelancer-1
06-23-2005, 10:59 PM
"But, what I meant by being too effortless is that the actual pedal requires only a few pounds of force to move. I over react because of no resistance feel."

You need to supply your own resistance.

Until you learn to counter one foot with the other, you will be all over the place. It takes a bit of getting used to because it opperates like nothing you use everyday (unless you're a pilot).

Just remember its not like a car where you use one pedal or the other. You MUST be pushing with both feet at the same time. One side a little more, one side a little less, but pressure always on both pedals.

Freelancer

han freak solo
06-23-2005, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
"But, what I meant by being too effortless is that the actual pedal requires only a few pounds of force to move. I over react because of no resistance feel."

You need to supply your own resistance.

Until you learn to counter one foot with the other, you will be all over the place. It takes a bit of getting used to because it opperates like nothing you use everyday (unless you're a pilot).

Just remember its not like a car where you use one pedal or the other. You MUST be pushing with both feet at the same time. One side a little more, one side a little less, but pressure always on both pedals.

Freelancer

I understand what your saying Freelancer, I really do. Until I get used to it I'll be having a bit of troubles due to the learning curve.

I remember pushing the rudder pedals of a little 152 having some resistance just to move the rudder, then the faster you went the more resistance you got because of the increased pressure from the faster airflow. Just like any sim, there is little or no feedback of forces.

It's just going to take me a bit of time, huh?

Old_Canuck
06-23-2005, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by han freak solo:
After contemplating for months and months, and reading many, many posts on rudder pedals, I finally dove off the diving board and bought a set. Of rudder pedals.

....

It's worth it. The kid who sold me a set of CH pedals didn't even try to hide his mocking sneer and he didn't bother to stifle his chuckles at the old guy buying this big chunk of plastic but he's probably still stuck in CFS1 (says it's the best because he and his buddies were able to point and shoot without having to learn how to fly. I'm still having a great time with the pedals years later and don't regret it one bit.

TooCooL34
06-24-2005, 12:36 AM
Originally posted by han freak solo:
Cool, but d@mn I suck at aiming now! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Actually, the P-47 works the best out of the half dozen I've tried with the pedals. The Bf-109 is giving me the most trouble.
It would take about 1 to 2 weeks for you to become used to. Then you won't fly without it. Twisty or Rocker just feels NOT right after then.

LEXX_Luthor
06-24-2005, 12:48 AM
Also, do the rudder thing Barefoot. It helps.

NonWonderDog
06-24-2005, 12:59 AM
I really don't like the design of the CH Pro Pedals. They're far too close and they barely give any resistance. As such, I have refrained from purchasing them.

I've used an old set of Thrustmaster RCS pedals before and thought they were PERFECT. Is there anything similar I can buy today? Preferably something that isn't 15 years old and runs through USB?

I've got an old joystick to cannibalize if it comes to that, but I kind of lack the desire to make my own rudder pedals.

AerialTarget
06-24-2005, 03:21 AM
Originally posted by han freak solo:
I remember pushing the rudder pedals of a little 152 having some resistance just to move the rudder, then the faster you went the more resistance you got because of the increased pressure from the faster airflow. Just like any sim, there is little or no feedback of forces.

It's just going to take me a bit of time, huh?

You're exactly right, and although I swear by rudder pedals, I never did get completely used to my CH pedals. Although as far as gunnery is concerned they are completely natural and provide pinpoint precision, the ultra-minute adjustments required to keep your ball centered are too much for me. Gunnery adjustments take what feel to my feet to be half inch movements. Ball centering, however, take what feel to be half millimeter movements. I haven't actually measured it, but you see my point. I wish there wasn't a "click" when the pedals were centered, but rather a gradual resistance as you mentioned and I remember real life pedals having.

Are there any other rudder pedals on the market?

wintergoose
06-24-2005, 03:33 AM
Dont use the pedals when aimin in, use the trim on a slider.
I use the pedals to point the plain in right direction. When close enough the last aiming is done with the slider trim. Spesialy when you do ground straffing.
I have CH Pro Pedals and X45

bolox00
06-24-2005, 04:00 AM
reputedly best on market are simpeds-available from http://www.rcsimulations.co.uk/

i'm still on thrustmaster elites thru cougar- 7yrs old and still great http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

@ nonwonderdog:- if you've still got rcs and your spare joystick is usb why not wire the rcs as an axis of stick? iirc pin 1 is +ve, pin 11 rudder signal. pin 4 is -ve if stick uses 3 wires to it's pots.
or a gameport>usb convertor might work?
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=23256&doy=24m6
-only 8 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif
just a thought (and 200 cheaper)

Grue_
06-24-2005, 09:20 AM
I put my feet on the lower part of the pedals only and don't wear shoes. I can control the movement much more accurately with my size 12 plates that way.

Worf101
06-24-2005, 09:39 AM
I sucked with pedals too. Just hang in there and "Boing" one day you'll get the "hang of it". I'm using old CH Pro Pedals with the Game Port attachment because I'm flying with a Cougar HOTAS set-up. I may move on to Simped rudders but not anytime soon...

Da Worfster

han freak solo
06-24-2005, 10:09 AM
Hanging in there. Working on the "Boing"! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Willey
06-24-2005, 12:36 PM
Plug your MS Precision stick again and get rid of that ST thingy. Just don't map the twist axis. I use a FFB2 with Simpeds, that rocks after some familiarisation.

han freak solo
06-24-2005, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by Willey:
Plug your MS Precision stick again and get rid of that ST thingy. Just don't map the twist axis. I use a FFB2 with Simpeds, that rocks after some familiarisation.

Hmmmm. Good idea. I'll try that when I get home.

steve_v
06-24-2005, 02:42 PM
Was just thinking, with the release of 4.01m, how nice it would be to have FF pedals. I love my ch pro, but am having to relearn with the new FM. Not a complaint.

han freak solo, enjoy your new hardware. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Sultan_of_Swing
06-24-2005, 06:21 PM
I got my CH Pro pedals just as we were in the last weeks of 3.04. I got to where I was getting comfortable with them and they were starting to become second nature. The 4.01 arrived.....but as I write this I can say I'm getting the feel of the new FM with peadls. I really love them and yes, BAREFEET is the way to go. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I do know what you mean about a lack of resistance. I have mine at 100 and when i go lower they seem to be way oversensitive.

Thoughts?

S!

nickdanger3
06-24-2005, 06:34 PM
Never thought about it but I always play barefoot...

There is that detent that tells you where the center is, so that can help. Right?

han freak solo
06-25-2005, 09:00 AM
Reaching "Bo" out of the "Boing". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Plugged back in the MS Precision Pro 2. I don't know if the stick is that much better or it is my familiarity with it. Probably a combination of the two. I've just got to quit twisting it!

Using socks on my feet on the pedals. Barefoot is gross, y'all don't know where my feet have been! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

I also use my feet on the pedals in two different ways now.

Feet on the pedals completely - take offs, landings, and taxiing. These three things are much easier with pedals than with the ol' twist.

Heels dragging on the platform - for aiming. Adds the resistance and stability I need.

Thanks for all the tips, y'all. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Papa_K
06-25-2005, 09:58 AM
Got here too late HfS. As I started in on this thread, I was going to go right to your last post:

Put your heels on the floor - in front of the pedals anyway with CH configuration. Then your feet aren't just floating on the pedals. Move feet up onto pedals when you need braking.

It anchors your feet, keeps you off the brakes in the air, and lets you easily keep in a slight and constant right (or left) rudder.

This is, BTW, a real world approach. Front edge of "pedal" (all metal) is often a round bar with a pedal section above it (the brake pedals). With heels on floor the balls of the feet go onto the bar - front edge of pedal. When you want brakes, raise your feet up, using the front edge bar as a pivot for the brake pedals. The pivot point for brakes is the bar, and not in the middle of the pedals.

That kind of setup might sound good for a computer gaming accessory, but you'd probably end up kicking it across the floor. Feel and pedal tension sound good too, but again you'd probably have to nail the unit to the floor to avoid sliding it.

Check these F-16 rudder pedal pictures for illustration (the ones from xflight.de):
http://images.google.com/images?q=f-16%20rudder%20pedal...l=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=wi (http://images.google.com/images?q=f-16%20rudder%20pedals&complete=1&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=wi)


Papa_K

han freak solo
06-25-2005, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by Papa_K:


It's all becoming clear now. The crystal ball is unfogging. What you write Papa K, has truth and appears to be the way. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Fehler
06-26-2005, 12:32 AM
I have said this a few times in the past, but I bought a set of CH Pro (Analogs) a long while ago. When I got them, I wacked the end off the cord and wired them directly into my X-45 to replace the rocker switch. I liked the rocker switch, but it really sat at an odd angle for my hand.

The pedals added a very nice dimension to the game!

With 4.01, I really dumbed down my settings however. I used to run 100 across the board, but now I use a setup similar to the roll axis input numbers. It has helped a bunch, and I dont get the oscillations that others complain about any longer.