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Rushin Russian
08-28-2004, 06:48 PM
In a recent game, I found myself flying against a Ki-84 and a late model 109. We were fighting at around 5000 meters. I was in a P63 with 2x .50 cal gunpods. The 109 was on my tail and closing fast, the Ki was making a boom pass. He missed, went under me, and made the mistake of coming back up right in front. I fired a burst of .50, which damaged him enough to limp home. The 109, however, was still behind me. I took it down to the deck to force him into a turnfight. He didn't seem like a very seasoned pilot, so I was able to get on his tail rather easily.

Here's the point of the story...
I emptied all but the last handful of .50 cal rounds into him, along with most of my 37mm, 2 of which struck. And he lived. Not only did he live, but after the 2 37mm shots, he kept evading me. No weapons jammed, no flaps ripped off. He was flying perfectly fine. Now, granted, the majority of my shots landed directly behind the fuselage, but I've NEVER seen a 109 take the beating that he did, without any dip in performance.

I know the damage model in this game is a little weird, but this is bloody ridiculous.

/end rant...

Edit: This is why we need a rant forum http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.sighost.us/members/RushinRussian/sigtest.jpg
Bell P63C-5

"On the European Front the most important development of the past year has been the crushing offensive of the Great Armies of Russia." - Franklin D. Roosevelt, April 1942

[This message was edited by Rushin Russian on Sat August 28 2004 at 05:58 PM.]

Rushin Russian
08-28-2004, 06:48 PM
In a recent game, I found myself flying against a Ki-84 and a late model 109. We were fighting at around 5000 meters. I was in a P63 with 2x .50 cal gunpods. The 109 was on my tail and closing fast, the Ki was making a boom pass. He missed, went under me, and made the mistake of coming back up right in front. I fired a burst of .50, which damaged him enough to limp home. The 109, however, was still behind me. I took it down to the deck to force him into a turnfight. He didn't seem like a very seasoned pilot, so I was able to get on his tail rather easily.

Here's the point of the story...
I emptied all but the last handful of .50 cal rounds into him, along with most of my 37mm, 2 of which struck. And he lived. Not only did he live, but after the 2 37mm shots, he kept evading me. No weapons jammed, no flaps ripped off. He was flying perfectly fine. Now, granted, the majority of my shots landed directly behind the fuselage, but I've NEVER seen a 109 take the beating that he did, without any dip in performance.

I know the damage model in this game is a little weird, but this is bloody ridiculous.

/end rant...

Edit: This is why we need a rant forum http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.sighost.us/members/RushinRussian/sigtest.jpg
Bell P63C-5

"On the European Front the most important development of the past year has been the crushing offensive of the Great Armies of Russia." - Franklin D. Roosevelt, April 1942

[This message was edited by Rushin Russian on Sat August 28 2004 at 05:58 PM.]

WUAF_WarWeapon2
08-28-2004, 06:53 PM
Awww.. Aint that just sweet!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

KGr.HH-Sunburst
08-28-2004, 07:02 PM
oh gawd you think 2 37MM is ridiculous? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
how about ur P63 kingtiger taking a whole 109 mk108 ammo load?

Lol gotta love those alliewhiners http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif
if there is one plane with a weak DM its the bf109
normally a few 50s is enough to take it out of action not to speak of the FW190
wich can only take ONE WHOLE 50cal in the wing...and there you go,wingdip from hell and 30% less topspeed http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

http://www.hell-hounds.de
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/sunburst/FW190A6sigHH.jpg
''All your Mustangs are belong to us''

p1ngu666
08-28-2004, 07:06 PM
109's seem tougher now
oddly enuff yesterday i shot at a 109, oil, then smoke
black smoke
then that disapeared?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
<123_GWood_JG123> NO SPAM!

Old_Canuck
08-28-2004, 07:10 PM
http://www.members.shaw.ca/al-randall/images/manfishline.gif

OC

"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing."

WUAF_WarWeapon2
08-28-2004, 07:24 PM
Nice "trolling" pic... Its usually done with a boat though http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

jensenpark
08-28-2004, 07:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Old_Canuck:
http://www.members.shaw.ca/al-randall/images/manfishline.gif

OC

"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ha! Good one OC!

http://www.corsair-web.com/thistler/rtfoxint.jpg
Buzz Beurling flying his last sortie over Malta, Oct.24, 1942

-dying non-stop online as silverdart

LStarosta
08-28-2004, 08:01 PM
Doesn't this Ki84 and 109K4 whine belong in the ORR with all the others? Or is this one special?

http://home.comcast.net/~l.starosta/sig2.jpg
Spacer nad Berlinem!

WUAF_WarWeapon2
08-28-2004, 08:03 PM
This one is the first sign of the apocolypse!! (O_o)!!

BlakJakOfSpades
08-29-2004, 01:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_WarWeapon2:
This one is the first sign of the apocolypse!! (O_o)!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
lmao, thats hillarious http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v344/BlakJakofSpades/sig2.jpg

F19_Ob
08-29-2004, 02:38 AM
Hi lads http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
I guess U, like me, also dont venture often to olegs RR.


Anyway....my post there about the "ACTUAL" and "VISUAL" damage in FB should give a covering explanation (atleast some)
I assume U also have tested to be in the plane taking Cannon hits, enough times? Or is it the VISUAL model that tricks U?

Well, here is the link....
ACTUAL and VISUAL damage:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=949108326


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif

ploughman
08-29-2004, 03:06 AM
Well, I've filled a Bf-109g6 so full of big 20mm holes it looked like a pack of sharks had been feasting on it but it didn't seem any the worse for the experience. Those little Nazi critters are tough, and any Luftwhiner who says other wise is, well, a Luftwhiner.

Fehler
08-29-2004, 03:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ploughman:
Well, I've filled a Bf-109g6 so full of big 20mm holes it looked like a pack of sharks had been feasting on it but it didn't seem any the worse for the experience. Those little Nazi critters are tough, and any Luftwhiner who says other wise is, well, a Luftwhiner.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, all you got to do is trim the rudder or ailerons and she flys straight as an arrow again...

609IAP_Recon
08-29-2004, 06:40 AM
personally...2.04 has been bad - I know I'll get complaints - but 2.02 was MUCH better.

I think it's anti-cheat combined with lag.

I've shot up aircraft before as well - and they act like nothing happened. I noticed this more in 2.04 than 2.02

S!
609IAP_Recon
http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg


Full Real Virtual Online War: Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com)

JG7_Rall
08-29-2004, 11:21 AM
LOL...a P63 pilot complaining about a DM.....

Anyways, if this was online, it could be a latency issue. I'm guessing it was because you described the pilots skill and if it was AI he probably would have out turned you no matter what http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://home.comcast.net/~nate.r5388/16502.jpg
"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
Badges!? We don't needs no stinkin' badges!
Flying online as Hutch51

JG7_Rall
08-29-2004, 11:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LStarosta:
Doesn't this Ki84 and 109K4 whine belong in the ORR with all the others? Or is this one special?

http://home.comcast.net/~l.starosta/sig2.jpg
Spacer nad Berlinem!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pure comical genius. I mean it!

http://home.comcast.net/~nate.r5388/16502.jpg
"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
Badges!? We don't needs no stinkin' badges!
Flying online as Hutch51

meh_cd
08-29-2004, 11:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ploughman:
Well, I've filled a Bf-109g6 so full of big 20mm holes it looked like a pack of sharks had been feasting on it but it didn't seem any the worse for the experience. Those little Nazi critters are tough, and any Luftwhiner who says other wise is, well, a Luftwhiner.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You must suck.

ploughman
08-29-2004, 01:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You must suck. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, you've been a big help. No really, your input has really helped to illuminate the problem. Thanks. You've been great. Bye.

WUAF_WarWeapon2
08-29-2004, 01:39 PM
LMAO!! XD XD XD

BSS_CUDA
08-29-2004, 01:45 PM
I was on GG recently in a P39 I dropped in behind a 110 and opened up. I believe it was you Sunburst http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif Bastard http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif I was tearin you up I couldbt believe you were still flying. I hit you with at least 12 cannon rounds and no apparent damage. then your rear gunner finally got me. after wards I went to the GG stats room just to see if I was seeing things. but the stats indicated that I had hit you with 117 rounds http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif kind stuck me a strange when in most engagements it takes less than 10 rounds to down an aircraft, but in this case 117 couldnt do it. i'll get ya next time tho. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

*****************************
BSS_CUDA
Co-Founder of my family
Black Sheep Executive Officer
USN retired

http://img42.photobucket.com/albums/v129/CUDA97045/CUDA_.jpg
blacksheep214.com (http://blacksheep214.com)
That was some of the best flying I've seen yet! right up to the part where you got killed.
you NEVER NEVER leave your wingman.

Jester : TopGun

Atomic_Marten
08-29-2004, 02:00 PM
I believe you Rushin Russian. I was online few days ago eventually end up in battle vs. pair of Messers. I got on the tail on one of them the guy was good, evading and stuff, but got no real chance since I was flying monster plane http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif. Then he got shot. Again and again. I think I have counted at least 7-10 hits on his fuselage, tail and wings. He is still evading very, very well. That surprises me. Eventually I must give up chase because of his annoying friend. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

But I think it is rather exception (maybe bad luck -- to hit him in less vulnerable areas and such http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif).

Fly high http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

VW-IceFire
08-29-2004, 02:15 PM
The 109 like all planes doesn't have a fixed DM model. Its complicated. The same 109 can absorb a ton of hits from 6 .50cal and stay flying or can start on fire or loose a tail at the slightest burst.

Consequently, a Yak can take a stunning number of hits and keep flying, or it can fall to peices in a single shot...or even explode (never seen a 109 explode BTW).

Nothing rediculous about it.

What may have also happened is that only one of the two hits counted. The server has ultimate say...and it may have decided that only one of them counted. A 109, at least in this game, can take a 37mm hit and stay flying. Its happened offline to me before. Its not shocking.

The people who fly for both (all) sides of the conflict see these things happen to both teams. The ones who fly for only the Luftwaffe or only the USAAF or only the VVS believe they are the ones being discriminated against.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RAF No 92 Squadron
"Either fight or die"

Da_Godfatha
08-29-2004, 02:30 PM
So, what you are saying Ice-Fire, is that the server can stack the deck for their favorite plane? I thought on some servers, 109's are almost Godlike.

Still, the .50's do suck in this game! (DaGodfatha runs VERY fast away!!!)

DaGodfatha http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

LStarosta
08-29-2004, 02:42 PM
Don't count on the .50's to do incredible apocalyptic damage to an airplane's structure. What they ARE good at is engine and player kills, so force your opponent to bleed his energy by forcing him into breaking turns to avoid your fire. This way, when you boom and zoom him, he cannot zoom climb and meet you head on, and he'll be less maneuverable meaning you will have a greater chance to get a good guns solution. Keep up the boom and zoom in your American plane, which you should be doing anyway, and shoot from the dive which will almost always insure you a guns solution at the top of your opponent's a/c (aka at the engine and cockpit). I've seen JG7Rall get like 3 PK's in his P47 within maybe 10 mins or so. The 50's are devastating but they aren't a cannon and shouldn't be used as such or expected to inflict damage as such.

http://home.comcast.net/~l.starosta/sig2.jpg
Spacer nad Berlinem!

Atomic_Marten
08-29-2004, 02:42 PM
BTW guys I dunno if this happened to you but I find this event to be funny.
I was flying YP-80 offline vs. Bf109K4's and I go head-on with one of them. Then I see him shooting before I can reach ideal position, and I tried to break off in order to evade head-on but it was too late. And now the funny part 109 hit me and saw my entire nose off -- and when I open my eyes again http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif I was surpised big time 'cos I was still flying like almost nothing happened. I saved track and I wonder how is this possible -- hilarious. This game surprises me frequently. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

LStarosta
08-29-2004, 02:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG7_Rall:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LStarosta:
Doesn't this Ki84 and 109K4 whine belong in the ORR with all the others? Or is this one special?

http://home.comcast.net/~l.starosta/sig2.jpg
Spacer nad Berlinem!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pure comical genius. I mean it!

http://home.comcast.net/~nate.r5388/16502.jpg
_"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."_
Badges!? We don't needs no stinkin' badges!
Flying online as Hutch51
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL I KNOW LOL R0XX0RZ LOL!!!

http://home.comcast.net/~l.starosta/sig2.jpg
Spacer nad Berlinem!

meh_cd
08-29-2004, 04:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ploughman:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You must suck. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, you've been a big help. No really, your input has really helped to illuminate the problem. Thanks. You've been great. Bye.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm here to serve. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

rummyrum
08-29-2004, 08:27 PM
I can never make up the 2 minutes of my life it took to read this http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif


Server has ultimate say in that it tells client it recieved hits or did not (just like every other mutliplayer game in the world). Just cause you record hits doesn'nt make it so.

I agree with Recon in that it seems worse.

9./JG54 Rummy

BSS_CUDA
08-30-2004, 07:16 AM
ok then explain my 117 hit on that 110 the stats were kept on the GG severs own stats board.I tried to pull them off the GG stats board but its been more than the 25 sorties that they keep records of. if it was my own IL2 manager ( which I just installed yesterday ) then I would agree, but not when the info is comming straight off the servers stats

*****************************
BSS_CUDA
Co-Founder of my family
Black Sheep Executive Officer
USN retired

http://img42.photobucket.com/albums/v129/CUDA97045/CUDA_.jpg
blacksheep214.com (http://blacksheep214.com)
That was some of the best flying I've seen yet! right up to the part where you got killed.
you NEVER NEVER leave your wingman.

Jester : TopGun

KGr.HH-Sunburst
08-30-2004, 07:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BSS_CUDA:
I was on GG recently in a P39 I dropped in behind a 110 and opened up. I believe it was you Sunburst http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif Bastard http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif I was tearin you up I couldbt believe you were still flying. I hit you with at least 12 cannon rounds and no apparent damage. then your rear gunner finally got me. after wards I went to the GG stats room just to see if I was seeing things. but the stats indicated that I had hit you with 117 rounds http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif kind stuck me a strange when in most engagements it takes less than 10 rounds to down an aircraft, but in this case 117 couldnt do it. i'll get ya next time tho. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

*****************************
BSS_CUDA
Co-Founder of my family
Black Sheep Executive Officer
USN retired

http://img42.photobucket.com/albums/v129/CUDA97045/CUDA_.jpg
http://blacksheep214.com
That was some of the best flying I've seen yet! right up to the part where you got killed.
you NEVER NEVER leave your wingman.

Jester : TopGun<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh yes Cuda you and a squadmate of yours came at me in a 110 ,damn that was fun http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

i have to say first of all your aim SUCKS http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif
no serious tho i have to say both of you hit me MANY times with 50s and cannon shells ,i dunno how many but you guys had a long trigger time on me ,and i was pretty banged up to say the least
i only had aileron control left ,engine fire and full of holes and i believe a part of my tail was completely gone http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
anyway i agree Cuda it was very odd that i didnt went down but i quess
you didnt hit a sweet spot where my wing would been ripped off or something,because ive had my wing shot of many times by P39s with one cannon shell.

NOTE: i fire the reargunner always my self with a bandit on my six and im good at it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
i got one you (zodiac i think?)
the funny part was i saw all those 37MM hits around me but not much happend and i kept going
did gave nice fireworks though http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.hell-hounds.de
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/sunburst/FW190A6sigHH.jpg
''All your Mustangs are belong to us''

[This message was edited by RK_HH-Sunburst on Mon August 30 2004 at 06:47 AM.]