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View Full Version : Oleg, please bring back to 4.07 MK108!



jermin122
02-13-2007, 12:10 AM
The rate of fire and muzzle velocity of MK108(esp. that on 109) have been significantly reduced in 4.08. The MK108 was perfect in 4.07, it has the fastest rate of fire and muzzle velocity in the whole IL2 series. In 4.08 My squad mates and I are almost unable to score a hit with MK108 if we use the same lead in 4.07. When making deflection shoot, the enemy aircrafts usually escape from the gap of 2 shells without being hit. Oleg, please bring back 4.07 MK108!

FritzGryphon
02-13-2007, 12:32 AM
The MK108 rof is 450 RPM, or 7 seconds of shooting in a 109K. This is correct.

Nothing changed in 4.08.

jermin122
02-13-2007, 01:01 AM
Try shooting someone in a DF server. You won't get anything if you shoot into the open air.

msalama
02-13-2007, 02:45 AM
Got track?

Foo.bar
02-13-2007, 03:42 AM
By using the MK108 the first shell has to hit. If not you're making something wrong.

joeap
02-13-2007, 03:43 AM
Geez why would the Mk-108 change so drastically? Problem is behind keyboard be sure. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Here is my chart to prove you wrong:

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/6397/chart1nn9.jpg

Brain32
02-13-2007, 05:26 AM
Where ever I look I see 650rpm for rate of fire not 450rpm for mk108 cannon.
BTW 7 seconds of mk108 fire gives ROF of ~550rpm not 450rpm.
Also it should have muzzle velocity of 550m/s, not stellar but in-game I think I would do a better job ballistics wise if I opened the canopy and threw a shell on enemy with the sheer strenght of my arm http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Did anybody ever test such thigns, especially muzzle velocity?

msalama
02-13-2007, 05:55 AM
I think

Yeah, you ***THINK***. Now that's the exact key word right there.

Vike
02-13-2007, 06:22 AM
Jermin,make this test:

-With the 4.071m:
Run the game in arcade mode

[Game]
arcade=1

In the conf.ini file.

,then go to the QMB and take a Me109-Late equipped with MK108,and shoot to the ground (Smolensk grass is good for that).If in one second burst you see 10+ white points on the ground,thus all is OK!

-With the 4.08m:
Redo the same test and compare! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But,at first glance,i didn't notice any change with the MK108 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

[Edit]

Jermin,i just did the test,patch 4.08m,it'all OK http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

With the K4-C3,we get the timer very near the windscreen,so so you can make an enough accurate 1second 30mm burst,and here is what i get:

http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/th_Mk108test.jpg (http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/Mk108test.jpg) (clic to enlarge)

http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/th_Mk108test2.jpg (http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/Mk108test2.jpg) (clic to enlarge)

So,10 impacts on ground,and some times even 11 or 12! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif (human factor? dunno)

So,you can return crushing those overheating Spitfire MkIXs with some confidence...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif


Originally posted by Brain32:
Where ever I look I see 650rpm for rate of fire not 450rpm for mk108 cannon.
BTW 7 seconds of mk108 fire gives ROF of ~550rpm not 450rpm.
Also it should have muzzle velocity of 550m/s, not stellar but in-game I think I would do a better job ballistics wise if I opened the canopy and threw a shell on enemy with the sheer strenght of my arm http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Did anybody ever test such thigns, especially muzzle velocity?

Dunno,all i can say it that once at and above 500km/h ias,your MK108 shells make a (short but)perfect flat trajectory if your plane is enough stable... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

@+

Brain32
02-13-2007, 07:39 AM
Originally posted by msalama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I think

Yeah, you ***THINK***. Now that's the exact key word right there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well I can test it, just provide me with:
1. late ME109(any will do G6 - K4 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif),
2. pay for my piloting education,
3. obtain atleast one mk108 shell,
4. obtain another WW2 airplane and the pilot to fly it.
Then I will fly the 109 and when I see that second plane I'll open up the canopy and throw the shell at it with my hand OK? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Kocur_
02-13-2007, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
The MK108 rof is 450 RPM, or 7 seconds of shooting in a 109K. This is correct.


Im affraid such a ROF value is not correct. 450rpm is quoted as ROF of 'very initial' MK108 batch (of few dozens apparently), produced back in summer of 1943. Mass production variant, one, that was used widely had ROF of 600-660rpm.

jermin122
02-13-2007, 09:18 AM
Gentlement, I don't know whether you play this game online very often. If you don't (because many posters with high post counts on 1C forum seldem play this game), probably you won't notice the diiference between the 2 versions. Anyone play 109s often online sholud notice the diffrence as long as he fires on someone. Vike, human being's feeling won't be that accurate. You wont know how exact the distence is. We need a much more scientific test. And once again, go to shoot some A/Cs. Last year, JG54_XPC, a very good programmer from Chinese squad JG54 has tested the muzzle velocity of all cannons. His method is quite reasonable, You can find his post at http://jackly.cpgl.net/bbs/showthread.php?t=7629. It's in Chinese, maybe you want to turn to babelfish for help. If any of you can do the test using his method, the result will be much more accurate. However, I'm sure Oleg knows very clearly whether he touched the MK108 or not.

JG52Karaya-X
02-13-2007, 09:23 AM
Didnt notice any changes to the Mk108 wether it be rate-of-fire or destructiveness and I'm using it almost daily, just yesterday I was flying with my squad mates on Warclouds in late 109s and we had no problems with the Mk108 at all. Btw, nice flying there yesterday Brain http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

For detailed information on the Rheinmetall Borsig Mk108 check this link:

http://www.luft46.com/armament/mk108.html

Rate of fire was 660 rounds per minute (thats 11 rounds per second) and it is said that in late versions of the cannon the RoF was increased to even 850rpm!

JG52Karaya-X
02-13-2007, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by jermin122:
Vike, human being's feeling won't be that accurate.

Exactly, however the problem is that YOU (the initial thread starter) haven't come up with any kind of hard date, only with feelings and thoughts.

And Vike's test is reasonably accurate, you might maybe want to use 1/4 speed ingame and then shoot the cannon for 4 secs, if you get 11 illuminated dots on the ground in arcade mode then all is fine.

jermin122
02-13-2007, 09:32 AM
Forgot to add that Viewplus is his masterpiece.

msalama
02-13-2007, 09:44 AM
just provide me with

Why the h3ll would I do that? _I'm_ not complaining, _you_ are http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

jermin122
02-13-2007, 09:45 AM
Exactly, however the problem is that YOU (the initial thread starter) haven't come up with any kind of hard date, only with feelings and thoughts.

Hey, mate, calm down. Did I ever said that I won't make a test? It's because it is difficult to change back to 4.07 from 4.08. I'll have a 10 days' holiday. I will take some time to do the test. BTW, no matter how slow you play the track, you still can't figure out what exactly the distence is, right?

joeap
02-13-2007, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by jermin122:
Gentlement, I don't know whether you play this game online very often. If you don't (because many posters with high post counts on 1C forum seldem play this game), probably you won't notice the diiference between the 2 versions.

BS, I play nearly every day, how do you know how often folks play or not? Why would Oleg change the 108 from one recent patch to the other??? Never read any complaints it was too strong.

crazyivan1970
02-13-2007, 10:36 AM
Didnt notice change, sorry. I do fly often, probably more then i should http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Brain32
02-13-2007, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by msalama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">just provide me with

Why the h3ll would I do that? _I'm_ not complaining, _you_ are http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You are the one that wants the test...

DKoor
02-13-2007, 11:46 AM
I have to say that while I haven't used them extensively in V4.07-71, I just tested them in 3 QMB missions. I'm still quite deadly from 'half-distance' (100-250m) deflections with 108's. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
That can mean only one thing: 108 is still the king of ultimate caliber in IL-2... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

However I would lie if I say that I can verify/dismiss 108 changes in 4.08 in comparison to previous versions...

IIJG69_Kartofe
02-13-2007, 12:09 PM
Tested in arcade mode...

No difference!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

msalama
02-13-2007, 12:43 PM
You are the one that wants the test...

...whereas you are one of these good ole IL-2 folks to whom the expression "burden of proof" - and its relation to complaints - is altogether too difficult to grasp it seems http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VW-IceFire
02-13-2007, 02:57 PM
So far everyone I hit with a MK108 this patch has fallen to tiny pieces. No problems.

SeaFireLIV
02-14-2007, 02:31 PM
Placebo.

Do we have another chart saying the exact same thing from a different testing organistation?

WWMaxGunz
02-14-2007, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by jermin122:
Gentlement, I don't know whether you play this game online very often.

Often enough to know that online, weird things happen often. Your PC could have been trying
to make up for dropped packets and slowed down a bit for instance but hey there are many ways
to get less than smooth control and action online. Were you close enough to have a lot of
collision checks? Ever been online and as you close on another plane your joystick seems to
not work for the 2-3 seconds it takes to crash? Because I have.


We need a much more scientific test.

Escept when 'we' come up posting very definite about things we have made no tests for.
Then it is acceptable.

Geez. 4.071 put it on 1/4 speed and time how long to empty the 108. Do same with 4.08.
OFFLINE or MP but not connected lets you get gunstats to ensure all your shells are there.
That's as scientific as you will get. You can get rhetoric about it instead and make up
something so convoluted it might be used to 'prove' whatever you want but that won't wash
where it matters.

FritzGryphon
02-14-2007, 10:09 PM
I apologize, I have made a error.

I tested again with bf-109K, and it has in fact 65 rounds, not 60 like I thought. These 65 rounds fire in 6 seconds.

The RoF is 550 RPM. While this is not the maximum, it is within the allowable values.

If you want proof, get off your as$ and find a stopwatch, shoot the rounds, and type user STAT.

Badsight-
02-14-2007, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by jermin122:
Try shooting someone in a DF server. You won't get anything if you shoot into the open air. i would suggest to instead try shooting enemy planes when you play FB . . . . . . . instead of the air

sadly , FB doesnt keep track of your kills on "air"

Vike
02-15-2007, 03:03 AM
Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
I apologize, I have made a error.

I tested again with bf-109K, and it has in fact 65 rounds, not 60 like I thought. These 65 rounds fire in 6 seconds.

The RoF is 550 RPM. While this is not the maximum, it is within the allowable values..

FritzGryphon 65 shells fired in 6 secs give exactly 650 RPM (~11 shells by second),ie EXACTLY what we have in game! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

Where did you find 450 or even 550 rpm http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif...!?...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif ,we're talking about RheinMetall-Borsig stuff here mate! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

- Here for IRL MK108 characteristics (http://www.luft46.com/armament/mk108.html) (already posted by Karaya the page before)

- Here for our ingame MK108 characteristics (http://www.partizanska-eskadrila.com/reference/109.html) (no change since many patches)

I'll repost my screens about a ~1 sec bursts in the Me109K4-C3 that i posted before,in arcade mode in 4.08m:

http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/th_Mk108test.jpg (http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/Mk108test.jpg) (clic to enlarge)

http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/th_Mk108test2.jpg (http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/Mk108test2.jpg) (clic to enlarge)

Jermin,if you're not happy with my quick and simple tests (thanks for your kind words btw http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif ),then go and do a better one! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

@+

PB0_shadow
02-15-2007, 04:27 AM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Didnt notice change, sorry. I do fly often, probably more then i should http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Wifey surprised you on that chair again, uh? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif