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sunflower1
09-27-2004, 11:14 AM
I just reformatted and decided it would be a break in some bad habits. AOL didn't go back on the machine. Icons are off, full real.

So I pick the first Sturmovik campaign, the single seater I discover, and you can't see the freakin' compass.

Dead reckoning navigation doesn't frighten me, but doing it by the time of day and position of the sun, on a computer screen, is just more than I can bear when I'm in the mood to pull the trigger.

The speedbar annoys me, I turned that off a long time ago.

Are there any other options besides turning the minimap paths back on or just making sure you never, ever lose sight of your flight? This early Sturmovik eats AI 109's for breakfast, I just can't resist engaging them and if I don't have a rear gunner I'm not going to plow along in formation waiting for death to come (I mean, its a game, not a simulator http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif )

I'm looking for the sin with the least Hail Marys associated with it.

sunflower1
09-27-2004, 11:14 AM
I just reformatted and decided it would be a break in some bad habits. AOL didn't go back on the machine. Icons are off, full real.

So I pick the first Sturmovik campaign, the single seater I discover, and you can't see the freakin' compass.

Dead reckoning navigation doesn't frighten me, but doing it by the time of day and position of the sun, on a computer screen, is just more than I can bear when I'm in the mood to pull the trigger.

The speedbar annoys me, I turned that off a long time ago.

Are there any other options besides turning the minimap paths back on or just making sure you never, ever lose sight of your flight? This early Sturmovik eats AI 109's for breakfast, I just can't resist engaging them and if I don't have a rear gunner I'm not going to plow along in formation waiting for death to come (I mean, its a game, not a simulator http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif )

I'm looking for the sin with the least Hail Marys associated with it.

Heavy_Weather
09-27-2004, 11:20 AM
well you hit it spot on, dead reckoning is your only way when flying that style. other than that you hit it spot on again, it is a game.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif *runs away*

gates123
09-27-2004, 11:22 AM
Get use to speedbar (your best bet) or try toggling gunsight to work around tough to see compasses.

BuzzU
09-27-2004, 11:23 AM
So called full real hits a wall in bad weather. No sun, can't see the ground, and no compass. Now what?

Tully__
09-27-2004, 11:34 AM
Turn off the "No Speedbar" difficulty setting and assign a key to "Toggle Speedbar" in the controls page. That way you can toggle it on when you need it and toggle it off when it offends your sensibilities http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
09-27-2004, 12:05 PM
Shame there isnt a toggle sensibility switch I would like to toggle that now and then.

May be you could use the UDP data output feature to output to a 'glass cockpit' compass on a second monitor/device ?

Baldie Jr and others have done some mucking around with this. Been a while scince I checked on progress though.

SkyMonkey2
09-27-2004, 12:13 PM
I just leave minimap path on. Everything else is full switch, but the navigation element of this game is something that is sort of lacking, due to problems like what you describe. The other alternitive I suppose is to print all the maps in color, mark starting airfield, and then use them to find your way home via terrain features. Most of the time you can see the compass, at least momentarily, enough to get a heading. You can also ask for a vector to home base, which can help.

My 2 cents...

pakfront
09-27-2004, 12:26 PM
>May be you could use the UDP data output feature >to output to a 'glass cockpit' compass on a >second monitor/device ?

First I've heard of this. Is there any more info on which UDP port to use and the format of the data?

Tully__
09-27-2004, 12:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pakfront:
&gt;May be you could use the UDP data output feature &gt;to output to a 'glass cockpit' compass on a &gt;second monitor/device ?

First I've heard of this. Is there any more info on which UDP port to use and the format of the data? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Introduced with the v2.01 patch, devicelink is almost completely user configurable. See the file devicelink.txt in your game directory for details.

Extreme_One
09-27-2004, 01:19 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif I use the mini-map path. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Actually I do use the other method "or just making sure you never, ever lose sight of your flight?" where possible too.

I am a <span class="ev_code_PINK">NOOB</span> - and proud of it! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

609IAP_Recon
09-27-2004, 03:31 PM
"So called full real hits a wall in bad weather. No sun, can't see the ground, and no compass. Now what? "

Grounded - cancel the mission.

crazyivan1970
09-27-2004, 04:07 PM
as long as minimap is there, i could care less for anything else http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

clint-ruin
09-27-2004, 04:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 609IAP_Recon:
"So called full real hits a wall in bad weather. No sun, can't see the ground, and no compass. Now what? "

Grounded - cancel the mission. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In the real war - Stalin sent off nasty telegrams to field commanders, telling them that the Il-2 could fly in 100m visibility conditions and conduct strikes. And they were expected to do so. Or else.

I'm sure flight school sounded fun at the time..

crazyivan1970
09-27-2004, 04:31 PM
And they did fly..and they did crash. Do or else thing took so many lifes... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

clint-ruin
09-27-2004, 04:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
And they did fly..and they did crash. Do or else thing took so many lifes... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup. Please please finish up translating the Il-2 pilot diary you started posting ages ago, that was a great read.

Full real is definitely pretty harsh if you're in the VVS. The part where we find out just why Il-2 rear gunners -really- don't like negative G moves was kind of gruesomely funny in a way :&gt;

crazyivan1970
09-27-2004, 04:52 PM
I will one day... too bad 2 notebooks were lost and mid 1943 is missing. There is not much left in there to translate, just have to sit down and do it lol

sunflower1
09-27-2004, 09:49 PM
Thanks for the replies, fellows.

I would LOVE to know why the gunner objects so strenuously to negative g!!! The first time I heard, "ohhhhh Nyet!!!" I just about expired.

Eventually I'm going to make it to online play and I figure if I can drive a stick, for sure I can drive an automatic.

I'm tempted to leave minimap on, but the idea of toggling the speedbar to leave the dead-reckoning element in the game seems like the real hairshirt way to go, thanks Tully.

I've been following the icon/no icon debate and the only huge reaction I've had since turning them off is that I prefer the way the game looks with them off. Nice clear sky with planes in it. Well, other than getting totally lost because I have no compass and I can't resist leaving formation.

Toggle the speedbar it is!

clint-ruin
09-28-2004, 12:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sunflower1:
Thanks for the replies, fellows.

I would LOVE to know why the gunner objects so strenuously to negative g!!! The first time I heard, "ohhhhh Nyet!!!" I just about expired.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you look at the Il-2 field mod and other early 2 seaters - there is not actually much holding the guy in the seat - I think it was basically that they sat in a canvas pouch over the fuel tank and tried to hold onto the guns. This is not a problem until the pilot decides to jink and porpoise around in the sky trying to avoid flak or terrain or whatever.

Safe to say there were probably more than a few Il-2s that came back with only one of the two crewmembers sitting in the plane.

It's a much better story as the pilot tells it, so get to it Crazyivan :&gt;

x6BL_Brando
09-28-2004, 12:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Safe to say there were probably more than a few Il-2s that came back with only one of the two crewmembers sitting in the plane. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I read somewhere that the ratio of gunner to pilot losses was as high as 7:1 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

F19_Ob
09-28-2004, 02:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sunflower1:


....getting totally lost because I have no compass and I can't resist leaving formation.

Toggle the speedbar it is! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Hi again sunflower...
Getting lost online is quite manageable on many maps (especially the smaller ones)

If I get lost I try first to find clouds and hover close to them, checking the surroundings
for rivers and lakes with unique features. The shape and clusters of forrest may help too.
From low ground its hard to see any of these features, and climbing near or in the target area is dangerous because u almost stand still in the air (easy target), but if near clouds U see the surroundings well and have the escape/evade option in an emergency.

Often there is fighting going on near or in the targetarea and by watching the tracers towards ground I get a good clue where it is, and since I already know where target area is on my map I now have my approximate location .

I also have a simple compass-rose drawn on a paper infront of me, enabling me to get immediate approximate heading to and from the target.
If I for some reason have circled a while without getting my bearings (big maps) I head homewards and hopefully bump into new easily distinguishable groundfeatures.
Note that I dont always fly direct a route home but more try to fly from cloud to cloud if possible. Whenever I get into a cloud I climb so I cant be seen from behind and below (enemy cloud-chasers use this position), then I change direction in the cloud (many enemies have lost me this way, even if I failed to spot them at that time).

Since I often fly the slower groundpounders nowadays I try to check behind an extra time wich means that there is a possibility getting down the right way.


(attempting uppload again tonight) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
09-28-2004, 05:35 AM
Good post! Yup If I get lost I often find my self resorting to rivers and lakes in conjunction with the map to establish where I am (this only falls down on some of the newer map releases which have bugger all scenery) landmarks are a good point of reference.

BuzzU
09-28-2004, 09:58 AM
The bottom line is, it's rediculous that we can't read the compass in "ALL" planes in FB.

Even if the real compasses were behind something. The pilots could look around it, and read the compass. We can't do that, and it's stupid to make the dashboard like it is.

sunflower1
09-28-2004, 11:57 AM
Well, its also ridiculous that I can whoop up on AI 109's in a fully loaded Sturmovik. The way I see it, at least I don't have to have the Squad Leader and Cross of Iron rule books sitting next to me while I play, or roll dice all day long in "Tobruk" or be grabbing a spool of thread to determine whether or not I can see that particular hexagon.

Polygons are better.

I know you're a bit older than me, Buzz, I'm 40, but when I was a kid and wanted to game/sim aircombat, pretty much the only option was an Avalon Hill game called Richtofen's War. It was a valiant attempt, but it wasn't much fun to play.

We've come a long way, baby. The fact that an engineering mentality, that Oleg obviously has, can get a playable game to market, is just manna from heaven. Dead reckoning isn't a bad mental exercise if you have a compass, a watch and map. I'll just use the toggle speedbar like I'd use lookdown and hope that the arcade muzzle flashes don't appear in PF. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

You know, full real out in the ocean, when you have to find a carrier, is going to take paying some attention!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif It won't be every night the admiral will be willing to turn on the running lights.

BuzzU
09-28-2004, 12:42 PM
I agree, but showing the compass in all the planes is not a big deal. Especially since the real pilots could see them. Isn't this supposed to be a sim? Some things are hard to get accurate. This isn't one of them.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
09-28-2004, 12:50 PM
Maybe a future addon would be a button that would transaparent the obscureing section of cockpit or that would pop up a compass rose with correct markings??

BuzzU
09-28-2004, 01:13 PM
It's been asked for since day one. I wouldn't count on it.

Atomic_Marten
09-28-2004, 02:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuzzU:
So called full real hits a wall in bad weather. No sun, can't see the ground, and no compass. Now what? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. Once when weather is blind/thunder/... you can't see much. Or better, you can't see anything on the ground that isn't directly below you when you are on low alt. So it is not that wise to fly without speedbar, at least for me 'cause I can't understand Russian/German language that well -- I cannot decipher all the time what the tower guy shouting to me about dmn heading vector. Well in Bf109 that is a real problem, when you go on a mission ~100km from your base. When I fly back to my base my worst enemy is remaining fuel. And in bad weather conditions that means if I'm detached from the main group and make a few unsuccesful attempts to find my base it is likely that I will have to ditch.

Personally I fly full real only in careers due to very obsolete PC (that is not the only reason).

BuzzU
09-28-2004, 02:34 PM
I change all the languages to English. Otherwise i'd really be lost.

sunflower1
09-28-2004, 03:09 PM
I can't tell when the controller is addressing me or some other group. I rarely get course suggestions that make sense. Everything seems to be at "300." So you guys can really use those?

Yeah, they should have got that one right and I bet at one point it really bugged them, so to speak. But that's the thing about engineers, at some point somebody has to say, "done" and start selling the thing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I am spoofing about the "full real" attitude. I just know that if you push yourself harder you'll get better quicker and you'll hit a higher level. The game has features that are really cool, like the FOV used to scan, that I haven't been compelled to really learn.

I don't mind the minimap paths, radar or the speedbar really, I just know that this game has a lot more texture than that. And it really does look better without the icons!

BuzzU
09-28-2004, 03:17 PM
I'm not really whining. The P-51 has all the gauges I need. I do remember doing the IL2 campaign, and getting lost in the early planes, because I couldn't see the compass though.