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Triggaaar
09-03-2005, 04:07 PM
I'm sure that in the war, pilots did have trouble immediately recognising the planes around them, but I'm having a much harder time, for a few reasons:
1) My 19" screen takes up a very small percentage of my overall vision, so a plane at 200 metres on my screen, appears a lot smaller than it would in real life.
2) Although graphics have kept improving, they are obviously not as clear as real life.
3) I have no idea what my radio is saying - when 7 says get him off my tale, I have no idea if they're talking about me, or to me (this bit I assume improves as you get a better understanding of the game).

When there's a lot of planes on a mission, I'm having to spend ages following a plane to see if who's side there on. Are their any tips on recognising them (other than practice)?

Thanks

danjama
09-03-2005, 04:09 PM
Icons?!? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Other than that the dots in this game are hard to see. Oh Yes, weve had many a debate on it here in GD!

FritzGryphon
09-03-2005, 04:15 PM
Practice definitely. You'll find there are huge differences between the far LODs of various planes (square wingtips on all 109s, for example). You'll just pick this up after playing for a while.

Find out what the plane is not. If your flight is all Spits, for example, anything that looks different has to be enemy.

Use zoom view. Still smaller than RL, but better.

Tracers, big one. Have to know what color tracers each plane shoots. Can find things 10km away this way.

And lots of indirect factors, like performance. If you see a plane doing donuts on the deck, chances are it's not a FW190. Roll rates, etc.

Triggaaar
09-03-2005, 04:20 PM
This game is going to be so difficult to learn. I hope you guys haven't moved onto something else by the time I can fly.

F0_Dark_P
09-03-2005, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by Triggaaar:
This game is going to be so difficult to learn. I hope you guys haven't moved onto something else by the time I can fly. hehe no risk mate, sure battle of britain comes in 2006 (the sequel to il2) .. but i bet you will learn untill then, you just need to fly alot

FritzGryphon
09-03-2005, 04:30 PM
We'll be moved onto a sim in which the same skills apply, so don't worry http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SeaFireLIV
09-03-2005, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by Triggaaar:
I'm sure that in the war, pilots did have trouble immediately recognising the planes around them, but I'm having a much harder time, for a few reasons:
1) My 19" screen takes up a very small percentage of my overall vision, so a plane at 200 metres on my screen, appears a lot smaller than it would in real life.
2) Although graphics have kept improving, they are obviously not as clear as real life.
3) I have no idea what my radio is saying - when 7 says get him off my tale, I have no idea if they're talking about me, or to me (this bit I assume improves as you get a better understanding of the game).

When there's a lot of planes on a mission, I'm having to spend ages following a plane to see if who's side there on. Are their any tips on recognising them (other than practice)?

Thanks

Yes, it`s true that without cons it s difficult to recognise planes and this may be harder than in reality, BUT I have noticed many similarities to historical accounts of WWII reality and IL2/FB.

Pilots in real life DID have trouble identifying bogeys.

Because of this similar tactics can be used in identifying them at distance.

1. Know your mission. Know where the enmy front is relative to you. Now, if you see dots in the distance ahead of you in direction of the enemy frontier might be the enemy. If you see dots to your left and right heading the OPPOSITE way to you it could be the enemy.

2. If closer dots ahead appear to break into pairs(offline) they `re likely fighters. If they keep in formation, either they`ve not seen you or are bombers.

3. Recognise tracer. For me the enmy often fire BLUE tracer. When I see a silhouette do that I keep my eyes on him. Almost certainly an enemy.

4. If Allied and you see the dot/silhouette going high after diving. Pay attenion to it. In fact always make any high unknown a priority.

5. If you see something making a beeline for yor tail behind you and you`re not sure who he is, EVADE. Better to evade a friendly than not evade an enemy.

6. Listen to calls, sometimes they are relevent to your situation. BOBII by shockwave is really VERY GOOD with it`s AI comms. You pretty much known all the time if a particular situation is concerning you or your squad. A pity that FB falls down on this.

7. When on on the tail of a plane you think is an enemy -DOUBLE CHECK- GET CLOSER. Once you see the tell tale signs, you can shoot.

It`s experience and time really.

Xiolablu3
09-03-2005, 10:04 PM
Most servers have some kind of icons on.

If they dont, then you shouldnt be flying there anyway, as they are for advanced pilots.(I gather you are new to this).

The only 'icons off' server I have been on is Warclouds, and even that server tells you what the plane is as it comes into range (more realistic because of the problems with monitors etc, as you have said.)

Just turn icons on if you are a beginner, and pick the easier servers first, to train on. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

As everyone says, its experience, and only time will give you that. Enjoy learning by using icons and having a chance, rather than jumping in at the deep end.

NorrisMcWhirter
09-04-2005, 04:17 AM
Quite simply : get closer. But, more importantly, get closer AND above it if possible as identifying a plane that's above you means it's normally too late http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ta,
Norris

Triggaaar
09-04-2005, 05:25 AM
Thanks everyone, some great tips.


Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I gather you are new to this. Depends on your derfinition of new. I've reckon I've clocked up over 10 hours http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Just turn icons on if you are a beginner, and pick the easier servers first, to train on. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

As everyone says, its experience, and only time will give you that. Enjoy learning by using icons and having a chance, rather than jumping in at the deep end. I assumed that once everyone had learnt to fly, and switched on some realism, they had icons off? Is that not the case?

HotelBushranger
09-04-2005, 05:46 AM
Depends on your derfinition of new. I've reckon I've clocked up over 10 hours http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Now I'm going to quote my good friend James Bigglesworth:
"You've got to realise that when you get over the Line you'll have to fight men who have done five hundred hours flying. I don't want to put the wind up against you, but you've got to know what your up against"

Triggaaar
09-04-2005, 06:02 AM
You did know I was being ironic right?

The vets on here have flown a lot more hours, shot a lot more planes down, and been shot down, a lot more than any individual ever has in real life.

FlatSpinMan
09-04-2005, 07:42 AM
I say use icons.

Re your comment about everyone turning icons off, I assumed that, too, from what I had read here. However, when I did a poll I found that most respondents (can't remember numbers) used some form of icons some of the time. If you map a button to Toggle Icons then you can cycle through Icons Off/range/ range+flight no?range+flight no +type.

I find I can work out who is who or at least who is on which team BEFORE the dogfight begins but then in the middle I totally lose track as the sides are totally mixed up. And that is when it is really necessary. Against the ground you can pretty much forget about tracking them with icons off, in my opinion.

I think it LOOKS way cooler without them but I found it just hurt my eyes and detracted from my enjoyment.


=============================================

F19_Ob
09-04-2005, 12:51 PM
Hello Triggaar.

Yes the visibility at distance isn't as good as in real life and as someone mentioned some planes dissappear faster than others.

The good thing is that it's same for all but the distance problem benefits
the better planes while the poor performers wich usually also are slow will find that it's too late to escape when they correctly can identify a better enemy.
This problem online may be overcome by enabling friendly icons only, at a distance where one would be able to tell what plane it was in real life.
Many so called fullreal servers implement friendly icons because of this.
Otherwise it would be unlikely that anyone chooses an inferior plane to fly because of the tiny chance to escape because one couldn't identify a better foe before it was too late.

Speedbar, heading and altitudebar should also be available because a 17' (perhaps also 19') monitor really is to small compared with the easily read gaughes in realsized cockpits.

Personally I think online fullreal with everything disabled is less realistic and only benefits toprides and unescessarily hampers poor performers.
So there is no gains or positives about that.

well, my opinion.

Triggaaar
09-04-2005, 02:48 PM
Since I've just started, I'm referring to playing vs AI, rather than online at this stage. All the AI planes seem to automatically know which side everyone is on.

Good point about the instruments.

Also, with the screen being 2D, it's much harder to judge distances - you only have the size of objects, rather than your focussing & eyes converging in real life. Flying in formation is really tough on a PC. By the time you've noticed you're closing on an ally, it's difficult to do anything about it.

Originally posted by F19_Ob:
This problem online may be overcome by enabling friendly icons only, at a distance where one would be able to tell what plane it was in real life. Is there a setting to enable icons at a certain distance? And is that available online only?

partic_3
09-04-2005, 06:57 PM
I like to cheat! I use external padlock enemy when I really want to identify friend or foe (I play icons off because I think the labels on things are total immersion killers). I rationalise it by arguing that my eyesight is pretty good and, hey, I am a fully trained fighter pilot so surely I can identify enemy aircraft! And I try and use this "cheat" with moderation but I am still more interested in having fun than being "full real".
But bear in mind that I fly offline only. If you want to train up to fly online, thats a different story.

Jaws2002
09-05-2005, 02:47 AM
Do testing in Quick mission builder with icons. Start a game with few types of aircraft and pause once in a while. Now try to indentify planes.Try to guess distance, plane type. Then turn icons on and check again. You'll get it fast.
The more you test it the faster you'll get it.
Good luck.

F19_Ob
09-05-2005, 06:09 AM
Originally posted by Triggaaar:
Is there a setting to enable icons at a certain distance? And is that available online only?

Yes there is the option to set icon distances and I think it work offline aswell.
I'm not sure how one do it though but I think there is a line in the conf.ini file in the il-2 folder.

Make a new post and ask how to change it , and I'm sure u'll soon get a good answer.
sorry I couldn't help more
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Airmail109
09-05-2005, 11:00 AM
Ive clocked over 1000 hours and I can tell you that even now identifying enemy planes is still a challenge at distances. I still intercept friendly planes and then disengage once Ive realised they are not enemys.

Often I identify aircraft by the colour of the tracers they are firing, this is especially usefull if your trying to work out whos who in the furball below you!

I have been known to Zoom down on my own shadow and strafe it! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

SeaFireLIV
09-05-2005, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
I have been known to Zoom down on my own shadow and strafe it! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Lol. I attacked my own shadow once. I did feel a bit like an idiot.

SithSpeeder
09-05-2005, 11:25 AM
All the AI planes seem to automatically know which side everyone is on. That's because they are on comms http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif . If you are a flight lead, you can command your squad or wingman to "Attack Fighters" and you can watch them go into action as well.

* _54th_Speeder *

rnzoli
09-06-2005, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by Triggaaar:
Is there a setting to enable icons at a certain distance? And is that available online only?
Try this for a start: How do I customise icons? (http://www.airwarfare.com/sturmovik_101/faq_index.htm#022)

Pirschjaeger
09-07-2005, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by SithSpeeder:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> All the AI planes seem to automatically know which side everyone is on. That's because they are on comms http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif . If you are a flight lead, you can command your squad or wingman to "Attack Fighters" and you can watch them go into action as well.

* _54th_Speeder * </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can give them commands but I find they more often refuse to obey. I think it's a distance thing.

Fritz

Pirschjaeger
09-07-2005, 11:14 AM
When I fly offline I usually don't use icons unless I'm specifically training. Depending on your resolution, there are also telltale signs. For example, if you set your res to 800x600 you'll notice when you see two planes in the distance (spots) and one is bigger than the other, the bigger one is on the blue side.

If you wanna fly without icons set your res low. I found with high res it's too easy to lose sight of the enemy.

Fritz

JG52_wunsch
09-07-2005, 03:26 PM
i just started using no icons(last patch).i toggle through different views,til i can see its
not my "team"or a plane i know.
the down side i shot down an cr42(blue on blue)
because i didn t reconize(sp)it.
the up side it "feels"more like rl and looks better,imo.cheers and good luck and ...practice.

Wolf-Strike
09-07-2005, 03:50 PM
Thats funny about the shadows.I have never attacked my own shadow until last night.I tried reducing all my settings in FB online to see how my system does CPU wise and not taxing the video hard.Well wellhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)...I was going crazy loooking for this plane that was so good at evading me and would disappear into the now featureless ground http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

The real funny part is my thinking when enemy(shadow) is spotted..."what an Idiot flying right below me...ok...concentrate and attack!!!!"

Triggaaar
09-07-2005, 04:20 PM
When I pluck up the courage to go online, I'd like you to be my opponent wolf http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

vanjast
09-07-2005, 05:08 PM
Here's some advice you won't forget when it comes to Realistic (100%) mode.

(1) Every dot in the sky is an enemy (tracer colours change this).
(2) Equalise the advantage of the one that has the most advantage against you. (you going to have to twist your head off your neck).
(3) While doing (2) every 10-20 secs kick left and right rudder to "clear your six"

If you find you'e after a friendly, and you end up with an 'enemy' on your six. Call him for help as he has the advantage over both of you, else hit the deck hoping to lose them in cammo, and call for help http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Edt: Another trick I do when I see a/c all flying about 1000m (a lot of dogfight maps), is go full tilt at 50-100m, surveying the scene on approach. pick a target and pull up behind it. It's a tactic that works 80% of the time where the target has no idea who shot him/her down. After this back down to 50m and speed away for another approach.

OldMan____
09-07-2005, 06:29 PM
Few things may help. Know to recognize each tarcer patter in game (not only color, but distribution can help to distinghish a p63 from a Mustang for example).


Some planes are 99% of time with a certain color, P51D is quite easy to ID this way. P38 are huge as 2 floor houses.. quite easy to ID.

If the dot is diving on other dots that disapear when the first get close... the dot is a FW190.

If they are just spinning in vertical plane like crazy without considerations for gravity than one is a late 109 and the other a Spit Mk9.

LeadSpitter_
09-07-2005, 06:46 PM
AA and AF helps so much.

Pirschjaeger
09-07-2005, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by Triggaaar:
When I pluck up the courage to go online, I'd like you to be my opponent wolf http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Stay above him. Use TS, yell "Wolf! Boogy 3 o'clock low!" Then enjoy the show.

Fritz