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View Full Version : Advice on getting rid of tailing enemies wanted



73GIAP_Milan
04-23-2005, 09:43 AM
Alright,

I'm far from a n00b but still i'd love to learn things, so anyone got some good hints on how to get rid of that nasty bugger on my 6 'o clock puncturing my plane??

Most of my time i'm flying IL2 Sturmovik online and most servers have Icons enabled, not that that is a problem but then again, every now and then i've got these guys on my tail and what is an effective way of dealing with them?

Please some hints on:
Shaking them off
Reversing the situation

Most of these dudes are really fanatical and stick like glue with a bad aim, how do i turn the tables ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks in advance,

73GIAP_Milan
04-23-2005, 09:43 AM
Alright,

I'm far from a n00b but still i'd love to learn things, so anyone got some good hints on how to get rid of that nasty bugger on my 6 'o clock puncturing my plane??

Most of my time i'm flying IL2 Sturmovik online and most servers have Icons enabled, not that that is a problem but then again, every now and then i've got these guys on my tail and what is an effective way of dealing with them?

Please some hints on:
Shaking them off
Reversing the situation

Most of these dudes are really fanatical and stick like glue with a bad aim, how do i turn the tables ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks in advance,

Bearcat99
04-23-2005, 10:03 AM
It all depends on the plane... you dont want to dive with a P-47 on your tail and you dont want to climb..... Dont turn with a Zero or a Yak I just jink and juke and call for help... if there are clouds I can sometimes run for the clouds... Sometimes a split S and dive and turn can shake them.. it all depends on how close they are... if they have distance enough to react to whatever you do you are pretty much toast..

fherathras
04-23-2005, 11:38 AM
this greatly depends on what aircraft you are flying

two exapamples

If your in a J8a then turn! turn like the seasons!



if you are in a p-47, dive!



It also depends on what aircraft you have behind you.


If your faster. run.

if you can turn better. do circles



But most of the time, when you have a bandit behind you, your already as good as dead.



the trick is, NOT to get him behind you.



Situationall awareness plays a great role here.

if you dont know where the bandit is.
you are dead.


if you KNOW where he is, you have a chanse.

a even greater one if he hasnt spotted you first.



keep looking around, and always know where everybody is.



avoid headons like the plauge.
they hurt.



learn to fly whit one hand and use the other hand to look around with the mouse, if you dont have track-ir.


as said, you have to know the weaknes of your aircraft, and avoid them
at the same time you have to know the weacness of the enemy aircraft, and try to bring the fight towards those areas.



take early spit vs fw-190


the spitfire can turn cirles around the fw, at LOW SPEEDS.

if the fw driver manages to lure his enemy into a high speed fight, he will win 99% of the time.

same thing if the spit can get the fw-190 slow and turning. the spitfire will win 99% of the time.



if you have any tricks to share, then come with them.

LStarosta
04-23-2005, 11:49 AM
Get a wingman.

CAPT_COTTON
04-23-2005, 12:01 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

All of the above in Fherathras post is great advice BUT i think you are looking for a way to get rid of or even with him for putting those nasty holes in your plane http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Well i have deviced just the thing and its simple SLAM ON THE BRAKES and it works this way . YOU pull back on stick then when going straight up you put down gear and full flaps and kill engine and BAIL as fast as you can get them on and look back to see him slaming into your plane he he. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

I will always thunk it would work!

PS.paint the inside of flaps red so he has a warnning that you are stoping [breaklights] http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

73GIAP_Milan
04-23-2005, 01:53 PM
First off, thx for the replies so far..

I forgot to add that most of the time i find myself on servers with reasonably limited planesets, like up to 1943 but without the (in il2)-Uber La5 and Fw190's..

If the choice is available, i fly most of my time for the red side in either the I-16, P39N, Mig3-2xUB or a Yak1B..
If i must fly for the blue side i'll take the 109E7/z or the F2/F4 but i can't really fly those properly.. I'm a VVS driver..

In the I-16 i mostly get outturned by only opposing Migs -yes sometimes both sides can select all planes - in the P39 it's nothing special but i need good hints to fly it even better as i can do some serious damage in it.
The migs3 and Yak1b's are not really my deal to fly as i can fly them but that is about it.

I see no point in hiding in clouds because the icons are set to 3-4KM mostly which give away positions like flashlights..

Any other good advice apart from; "not enter these air-quake servers" ?

@Bearcat; i know most limitations of the planes for il2, but as everyone knows, their modelling is just a bit off lightly spoken, but in general lots of manoevering has happened before one actually gets on my tail http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

@Lstarosta; a wingman is a good idea, i do have a squad but those are *cough* not that good, apart from 1 guy.
If i ask around on those servers no one replies so it's mostly me who is flying topcover for others.
I've had only 1 situation thusfar where a call for help actually worked. - the attituded of the current IL2 Sturmovik players is really to cry about http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

Anyhow, thanks for all advice so far, if anyone has something to add, pls post them here, it could benefit others too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VW-IceFire
04-23-2005, 02:59 PM
Don't let them on your tail.

Use wingmen.

Use defensive tactics when being trailed by the enemy:
- call for help (map grid and alt)
- use scissors (banking back and forth to shake their aim)
- break away from friendly help so as to expose the attackers six (breaking towards friendly help makes their job harder)

civildog
04-23-2005, 03:06 PM
I second the motion for a wingman. But even he may get bounced by a bad guy so it does help to know what to do on your own.

Options are pretty limited...as Bearcat said, use the plane's strengths out-turn or out-dive/climb.

Try not to let your opponent fly inside his best envelope even if that means sometimes not flying in yours. If a 109 is on your Cobra's tail you can lose him in a sustained turn but your Cobra will slow down too, and that might mak it hard to reverse on a crafty 109 driver who knows your tricks. But a Cobra can out dive a 109, too, and sustain it's energy better as it pulls out of the dive. The 109 does better at altitude because it's strengths are climbing/diving so if you dive low you can take away the enemy's advantage by denying him use of that envelope. Sometimes an unwary 109 pilot will be suckered right into the gorund if he doesn't watch his enegry following a Cobra into a 200m or < truning engagement.

Now that may not get the bogey off your tail right away, but he will have to decide if he can get away to regain his advantagous envelope or stay in the fight a a disadvantage. That wil give you time to either reverse on him (since low and fast is the Way of the Cobra) or you will have time to run away or setup for an attack on the 109 as he extends away rather than staying in the fight.

You should ALWAYS be looking for a chance to extend and run - let your fangs grow too long and you might get them snagged on the ground.

And don't forget to breathe.

Think about these kinds of tactical situations before the fight. Stay unpredictable once you are in the fight and force him to react to you. Once you are sucked into reacting to him you have probably lost the fight. As long as he is reacting to you you have won the fight even if he is still behind you, because you will be in control - he'll eventually run out of speed, bullets, or patience and make a mistake. And we all know that battles are made by the general who makes the fewest mistakes.

There is an actual RL system to this called an OODA Loop that was developed by a Korean War Sbre pilot named Boyd. Go here to get the scoop on the OODA: www.gabesuarez.com/OODA.html (http://www.gabesuarez.com/OODA.html)

There are more professional dissertations on it, but this one is concise. The most distilled version I could come up with is under my sig. Remeber it when you see those tracers fly by your head.

BTW: If you are ever on a DF server and call for help, if one of us is there we will always run to the sound of gunfire.

73GIAP_Milan
04-23-2005, 05:06 PM
A note to myself:
UPGRADE my pc fast, i want to get rid of this old Il2 Sturmovik flying amongst airquake kiddies!

I've tried the advice given here tonight and most of it worked perfectly until the ****** and P¸rkéd Flightmodelling of good old IL2 Sturmovik came haunting back doubletime..
- Me flying a 1944 Bf109G6AS and my opponent appeared in a Mig3 Shvak 1941 version, i spiralclimbed up and it followed easily on my tail, i dove down, PAST 750KM/h and the mig sat still hot on my tail fragging my tailpipe.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

I'd really loooove to see a day where i can forget all this hassle.

Take note that i called out for help about 4 times and had 2 or 3 friendlies near but you might guess, i was on my own.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I now know that most of the tactics help, and that i had a wingman too tonight, for just 30 secs. until a guy fragged him with a mig3 once again..http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif -i took the mig down on my turn..

@Civildog; i'll start a separate thread, i'd love to get more insight in the Cobra ^^
I've got FB (no AEP) running on my comp and it's a great plane i'd love to know better, it's my favoured ride in IL2 Sturmovik aswell..
I hope you and some other cobra-addicts can put some nice info there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

@Icefire; I've found out that scissoring, banking and slowing down only helps the enemy to achieve better aimsolution.. everytime i start a scissor or slow down and bank those can follow me and i'm deadmeat.
My suspicion is that this is because it's mostly Air-quake servers i'm on and everyone just blasts away without any real ammo management.
I'll save this tactic for when i start flying FB+AEP (hopefully PF too) soon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

CAPT_COTTON
04-24-2005, 12:01 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

I was in a room about two hours to nite and left with 357 score. Was flying a zero and i use a trick that works good when the guy gets on your six check for altude and if above 300 ft use left rudder and left alerions and snap roll upside down to about 45 drgrees and pull back on stick and you will go around very fast [not so hard as to black out thou]as soon as you get back level turn hard tooo right and look for him . you said above you went up just put in your mind ----NEVER GO UP----And if all above wont work learn how to SIDE SLIP. IT MAKES YOU HARD TO HIT . tO SIDE SLIP YOU APPLY RIGHT RUDDER AND LEFT ALERIONS AT SAME TIME AND REVERS FOR OTHER WAY.If you hold the rudder and alirons this way till you roll all way over its a barrel roll great for head ons.

well i let all my tricks out of the bag exceept one the more you fly the better all this stuff works and then you dont think about what to do any more you just zip around he he. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif