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View Full Version : Worse AI with 1.4 ?



TopCat007
06-25-2005, 01:48 AM
Hi all

In the German Forum there is an intense discussion about the AI with Patch 1.4. There are several people who stated that the AI is a lot worse than in 1.3. For example it is said that the destroyers do not hunt you with the same determination any more, they are dropping their bombs less precisely, they cannot locate you and do not co-operate any more.

I haven't seen such statements in the English speaking forum until now. What is your experience with the AI in 1.4?

TopCat007
06-25-2005, 06:55 AM
Bump! Come on, community! Someone's got to answer that question, please.

Fodderstompf
06-25-2005, 09:40 AM
Well, I can't comment on the entire period of the war. But last night I got my *ss kicked while attacking a convoy mid 42.
Done my usual trick of hiding beside a wreck and waiting for the escorts to lose interest

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">However,</span>

They didn't lose interest at all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

All 6 escorts waited for me with 1 destroyer constantly circling, thereby blocking my chance of sneaking away. This went on for 3 game hours at x8 tc, imagine http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

The AI was very aggressive when I made my break, totally pulverized. This experience with patch 1.2 would have resulted in the escorts leaving after about 15mins.

So IMO, the AI seems to be improved??

Anren
06-25-2005, 10:53 AM
I'm early on in a new career so haven't noticed anything too dramatic. I have found that you can lure them into ports in close quarters and have them slam themselves into the docks or drop their depth charges in the shallow water and blow their back ends off.

BobV_07
06-25-2005, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by Anren:
I'm early on in a new career so haven't noticed anything too dramatic. I have found that you can lure them into ports in close quarters and have them slam themselves into the docks or drop their depth charges in the shallow water and blow their back ends off.



LOL, I will remember that one. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



http://img242.echo.cx/img242/9361/mesub6qj.jpg

plenten
06-25-2005, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by TopCat007:
Hi all

In the German Forum there is an intense discussion about the AI with Patch 1.4. There are several people who stated that the AI is a lot worse than in 1.3. For example it is said that the destroyers do not hunt you with the same determination any more, they are dropping their bombs less precisely, they cannot locate you and do not co-operate any more.

I haven't seen such statements in the English speaking forum until now. What is your experience with the AI in 1.4?

I agree, for now. In my first patrol on 1.4b encountered a destroyer who pinged me... but after that, it was just circling around, no depth charges, and I escaped with not even a scratch on my hule. Weird huh..

Also, the new ships in harbor (1.4b has ships in harbor) are missing AI. They already have sunk before I get in the harbor. Weird huh..

Remix_
06-25-2005, 03:03 PM
My favorite test for the AI is Scapa Flow...

I went with a type II (and version 1.4), yesterday, and got detected... bad me.

However things got more and more hilarious as I saw that the destroyers while chasing me all ran into the land (I tried to enter via the west side, no the south.)

Total: 5 destroyers were blocked and couldn't move. To escape safely, I only had to be submerged.

That was 'fun' but also sad to see that the AI stills needs improvement.

ohodeg
06-25-2005, 04:10 PM
Would be great if someone of the Admins or from Ubi can give an official statement regarding the new (worse) AI.
OK, 1.04b reactivated the Sonarman, but due to the new Destroyer AI the Sonarman isn´t necessary anymore. For which case do we need a Sonarman when the DD´s stopped to be a danger?

Is anybody here who knows which 1.04b datas are to replace by these from 1.3 for getting back the good, challenging DD´s?

Bubblehead1948
06-25-2005, 04:58 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif If weak AI proves to be the case, I wouldn't be too concerned. Its only a question of time before the modders revamp some of the tweaks that were available for 1.2. Soon some of you will be lamenting about the Uber Destroyers again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Teddy Bar
06-25-2005, 07:16 PM
I think that there is a lot of misunderstanding of how ineffectual escorts were.

They only sank 1/2 of the total u-boats sunk. Often from being able to outwait the u-boat and getting it via radar once it resurfaced.

There is a noted instance of a u-boat enduring over 600 depth charges at the end of the war, and surviving.

The AI had previously been rediculously accurate with the depth setting, and it should also be noted that there were some dubious sonar settings and abilities after a depth charge attack to still hear.

The problem with these types of discussions is very few have read anybooks on the subject. Most have an incorrect view that escorts must have ruled the oceans because the u-boats lost the war and suffered heavy losses.

ohodeg
06-25-2005, 08:09 PM
@ Teddy Bar

OK, but the "only 1/2" are nearly 400 Subs sank by DD´s. Planes were a big danger for subs too, but in SH3 it´s much too easy to shot the planes from the sky with the AA-Gun. So, to compensate the weak planes the DD´s must be better, but now that isn´t the case anymore.

Now there are neither dangerous Destroyers nor dangerous planes and apart from this, i loved the strong Escorts in 1.3, they brought the tension in the game, now it´s more an arcade shooter.

Fodderstompf
06-26-2005, 01:55 AM
Good point on the unbelievable sonar, I have witnessed this umpteen times during multiple escort attacks.

Teddy Bar
06-26-2005, 04:54 AM
Originally posted by ohodeg:
OK, but the "only 1/2" are nearly 400 Subs sank by DD´s. Planes were a big danger for subs too, but in SH3 it´s much too easy to shot the planes from the sky with the AA-Gun. So, to compensate the weak planes the DD´s must be better, but now that isn´t the case anymore.
If we start down the path of making the DD better to compensate for the A/C we will end up with a game that can no longer be a simulation.

The game has unfortunately always been a turkey shoot. The merchant AI is a dumb and there is lacking a coastal command AI to stop you from being able to park outside choke points, harbours and the likes.

SHIII is a tremendous leap forward for simulations and for uboat/submarine simulations. However, it is yet to be finished.

Up until January 1942 aircraft had only sank 8 u-boats,
38 in 1942
149 in 1943
78 in 1944
20 in 1945

Where as escorts
6 in 1939
9 in 1940
24 in 1941
31 in 1942
57 in 1943
70 in 1944 This includes D-Day
43 in 1945

Ship 240
Shore-based A/C 204
Ship-based A/C 39
Ship/Shore-based A/C 30
Ship/Ship-based A/C 12
Submarine 21

The_Submariner
06-26-2005, 04:34 PM
I haven't noticed a change in DD behavior yet, though I would welcome it. My first two careers ended the same way when I was spotted by a destroyer who then travelled thousands of meters through stormy weather at night and destroyed my crash-diving, wildly manuvering sub with a single depth charge run. In fact, both times I only heard the first depth charge explode before I got the "Game Over" screen...No chance to even begin repairs!http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Since I never reload to replay mistakes, I welcome a slight detuning of the DD AI (If indeed that has happened...)

plenten
06-27-2005, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by ohodeg:
@ Teddy Bar

OK, but the "only 1/2" are nearly 400 Subs sank by DD´s. Planes were a big danger for subs too, but in SH3 it´s much too easy to shot the planes from the sky with the AA-Gun. So, to compensate the weak planes the DD´s must be better, but now that isn´t the case anymore.

Now there are neither dangerous Destroyers nor dangerous planes and apart from this, i loved the strong Escorts in 1.3, they brought the tension in the game, now it´s more an arcade shooter.

Yesterday, I've witnessed bombers (airplanes) colliding with eachother and crashing down together. Also had the bug that crew is still on deck while submerged. And the pre-sunk ships in harbor. See the 3 pictures.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/plenten/16-bombers.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/plenten/17-crewondecksubmerged.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/plenten/18-presunkinharbor.jpg

ohodeg
07-06-2005, 07:09 PM
@Ubi

In the german Board is still a heavy discussion about the worse AI. That the AI is weaker than before (1.3) is a fact. We would be pleased if someone can give informations about the 1.4 AI datas which were changed by ubi, perhaps we can replace them by these from 1.3.

Because as it is now, the game makes no fun anymore. The destroyers are stupid and the planes no danger. We want a simulation and no arcade shooter.

GT182
07-07-2005, 09:33 AM
Horse hockey....

AI planes are more abundant, more accurate and the Destroyers are just as tenacious as before. This is my observation on my 24th patrol in March of 1944. I've been attacked more than ever before by B24s, PBYs and Sunderlands with 1.4 over 1.3, and have more damage from them too. Haven't been sunk yet but came very close a number of times. It now seems that the ships you sink get out a radio message before they go down that draws the bombrers in. If you get away they will look for you and find you.
Here's a post to check.... http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9091085392/m/5311038533

Also, if you are using the snorkle, get the antiradar coating asap for your boats safety. If it's up they can find you, or they somehow know where you're going.