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View Full Version : If you can fly in IL2 Sturmovik, can u fly in reallife?



Superjew1
12-24-2008, 12:02 PM
I was wondering how realistic this flight sim was to actual flying, and if I can learn to fly the planes in IL2 Sturmovik, if it would be possible for me to fly something simple like a Cessna 172 in real life?

Jaws2002
12-24-2008, 12:10 PM
I remember few years ago this 12 year old kid stole a Cesna took off, did a touch and go and messed up the plane a little in the second pass. He "learned to fly" on a play station. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

So I guess if you can fly good this game you may be able to control the cesna <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">while in it's normal flying envelope </span>.
but you won't have a clue about controls and safe flying envelope. Without help you would most likely crash if you even manage to take off.

Scolar
12-24-2008, 12:10 PM
You would be better off flying the cessna in FSX to be honest

Xiolablu3
12-24-2008, 12:13 PM
It would certainly help a LOT.

You will have a basic understanding of stalling, trim and controls from flying this sim.

Energy management and stalling are usually the things that most new sim pilots dont understand. They think that you should be able to point a WW2 prop plane at the sky and go straight up.

Therefore learning how energy and stalling works in a sim will help the new pilot a lot when trying to fly a real plane IMO.

AWL_Spinner
12-24-2008, 12:15 PM
This comes up a lot, in various forms.

Short answer: no.

Slightly longer answer: no, but it'll help maybe more than some other PC flight simulators as IL2 encourages things like use of rudder (even if this is not entirely realistic, you have to think in all three control axes to fly effectively).

Alternative answer: It can't really hurt, real life flying is so different in sensation to simulation that you are unlikely to want to try and pull any IL2 moves in a Cessna - and if you do, your instructor will stomp on you in short order.

MOST people who have gone simulator -> flight training will say it gave them some advantage. If you want to try for a private license, FS-X is really valuable for things like instrument navigation and can save you $$$ otherwise spent training in the air.

Xiolablu3
12-24-2008, 12:17 PM
I remember some guy going for his first flight in a small plane and his instructor saying ' you play flight sims dont you?'

He said yes. The instructor said he could tell because he had a basic understanding on how to fly without ever flying for real before.

LStar
12-24-2008, 12:19 PM
That's like asking the question "if I watch pornographic films, will I know what to do when I actually do it?"

Sure. If you can turn on the damn thing.

Warrington_Wolf
12-24-2008, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by AWL_Spinner:
This comes up a lot, in various forms.

Short answer: no.

Slightly longer answer: no, but it'll help maybe more than some other PC flight simulators as IL2 encourages things like use of rudder (even if this is not entirely realistic, you have to think in all three control axes to fly effectively).

Alternative answer: It can't really hurt, real life flying is so different in sensation to simulation that you are unlikely to want to try and pull any IL2 moves in a Cessna - and if you do, your instructor will stomp on you in short order.

MOST people who have gone simulator -> flight training will say it gave them some advantage. If you want to try for a private license, FS-X is really valuable for things like instrument navigation and can save you $$$ otherwise spent training in the air. Agreed 100%. I find flying straight and level, and flying circuits harder to do in FSX than what I do in real life. I use FSX to practice radio navigation, my instructor recommended it but only after we did ground school on the subject and practiced tracking VORs and NDBs in real life. FSX is also good for practicing the emergency checklists, at first I reduced the simulation rate to half, then went through the appropriate checklist, then did it again at normal speed until I could do it without looking at the checklist.
Playing flight simulators does give you an advantage if you ever decide to learn to fly for real, but no desktop simulator is any substitute for time in the P1 seat.

Ba5tard5word
12-24-2008, 12:37 PM
So I guess if you can fly good this game you may be able to control the cesna <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">while in it's normal flying envelope </span>.
but you won't have a clue about controls and safe flying envelope. Without help you would most likely crash if you even manage to take off.

What if I buy a really big envelope at the post office?

Xiolablu3
12-24-2008, 12:38 PM
I saw something cool the other day, a plane of your own which can be towed behind your car for around £15,000 or $25,000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitfox


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-sport_Aircraft

They have sold over 4000+ of them so they must be good. I might start saving http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

mortoma
12-24-2008, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by Jaws2002:
I remember few years ago this 12 year old kid stole a Cesna took off, did a touch and go and messed up the plane a little in the second pass. He "learned to fly" on a play station. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

So I guess if you can fly good this game you may be able to control the cesna <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">while in it's normal flying envelope </span>.
but you won't have a clue about controls and safe flying envelope. Without help you would most likely crash if you even manage to take off. I find that hard to believe that he knew how to start it. With most small planes it's customary to leave the mixture control all the way out after you kill the engine, after your flight. The next pilot would push it back in to start it. At least it was like that when I flew and at the airport I flew at.

So I'm thinking this kid would not know that and not be able to start the engine from extreme lean setting. I suppose I could be wrong and somehow either the kid knew about this or figured it out.

In any case this sounds like one of those urban legend stories. Any sources??

mortoma
12-24-2008, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by Superjew1:
I was wondering how realistic this flight sim was to actual flying, and if I can learn to fly the planes in IL2 Sturmovik, if it would be possible for me to fly something simple like a Cessna 172 in real life? I highly doubt it. When I took my first lesson in the summer of 2000 I was already an experiended sim pilot, both civilian sims and military. This helped a lot in being familiar with the basic theory, the instruments and even in navigation as I already knew how to use a OBS and fly to a VOR from the sims.

However, I was not prepared for using my feet instead of the yoke to move about on the ground and it took me a good part of the day to get used to taxiing using my feet. And taking off you have to use your feet too, which in most sims you don't unless you have rudder pedals. At the time I learned to fly few simmers had rudder pedals.

And learning to land was not so easy despite my sim experience. The actual approach was easy and the sim practice helped that somewhat there. But learning the feeling of the flare and touchdown absolutely not, the sim experience did NOT help me much, if at all.

In short I might have died if I tried to fly using only sim experience alone and did not have an instructor to help me learn the "feel" of the more subtle parts of flying, especially landing.

The most likely thing to happen in the case of a simmer trying to land without taking proper instruction would be to strike the nosewheel first, which can do a lot of damage or even kill you. It would depend on how hard the nosewheel hit. This of course is assuming the person is trying it with a tricycle plane. God help someone who would try to do something like this in a tail-dragger!! Most likely a fatal result!! And probably on take off, let alone landing.

Divine-Wind
12-24-2008, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I saw something cool the other day, a plane of your own which can be towed behind your car for around £15,000 or $25,000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitfox


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-sport_Aircraft

They have sold over 4000+ of them so they must be good. I might start saving http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Ooh, interesting. It even looks nice. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

F19_Orheim
12-24-2008, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I remember some guy going for his first flight in a small plane and his instructor saying ' you play flight sims dont you?'

He said yes. The instructor said he could tell because he had a basic understanding on how to fly without ever flying for real before.

I had pretty much an identical conversation with the instructor the first lesson.

Jaws2002
12-24-2008, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:

So I'm thinking this kid would not know that and not be able to start the engine from extreme lean setting. I suppose I could be wrong and somehow either the kid knew about this or figured it out.

In any case this sounds like one of those urban legend stories. Any sources??


http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=48683


"FORT PAYNE, Ala. - A 14-year-old boy stole a Cessna and went on a late-night joy ride, taking off and landing twice before being arrested, police said.

The teen suffered minor cuts and bruises on the second landing because the plane came down hard, causing the landing gear to collapse and the propeller to dig into a road beside the airport, police said.

The teen allegedly took his mother's van from their home Wednesday night and drove to the airport in Fort Payne about five miles away. He said he then found the key in the unlocked plane, removed the Cessna's tie-downs, started the engine, and began driving around.

"The next thing he knew he was in the air," Police Chief David Walker said.

The teen, who police said had never before flown a plane, was in the air for nearly 30 minutes.

Police charged him with theft and took him to a juvenile lockup. The teen was not identified because of his age.

Authorities said the theft raised questions about security.

"We've never had a problem before with planes being stolen, so I guess we have been a little lax in our security," said Larry Noble Cowart, who owns Valley Aviation, which runs the airport and owns the plane.

Cowart said the teen could have entered through the typically unlocked airport gate or climbed a fence.

Fort Payne is a town of 13,000 people located about 80 miles northeast of Birmingham."

F0_Dark_P
12-24-2008, 02:50 PM
I find myself daydreaming a lot, and when i do many different scenarios is played in my head, for example i can see my self and my friends being chased by people that maybe want to kill us for some reason or something.. and then i lead them to maybe a Cessna standing on an airfield.. and then i take the controls becouse i "know" how to fly it..

I dont know how i would do in a real airplane, not so good a recon, but in my mind i am a pilot and a uber ace http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ..a guy can dream cant he http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Badsight-
12-24-2008, 02:56 PM
as others have already said , planes have been stolen for joy-flights by completely in-experienced people , who managed to take-off fly around & land in their very first turn behind the controls

besides landing , flying around is easy

Lemky
12-24-2008, 03:42 PM
Yes you can Flight Trianing is for people with money.

Kettenhunde
12-24-2008, 04:04 PM
They have sold over 4000+ of them so they must be good. I might start saving

I know several people that own Kitfox's. It is a great little airplane and cheap cheap cheap...for a plane.

Which means it is more expensive than you think. Basic rule of thumb is don't buy more airplane than you make a year.

If you make 50,000 dollars buy something that cost's 50,000 or less. You can figure the average fixed propeller; fixed spring gear aircraft is going to run you ~6000-9000 USD per year to operate and upkeep. Planes work on a curve, the more you fly them the cheaper they are to fly. Engines that are flown 100 hours or more a month tend to last well beyond tbo.

An experimental like a Kitfox is considerably cheaper. Look for a 4 stroke and not the 2-stroke. A friend of mine is very big into Kitfox's and that was the first thing he told me. The 2 stroke motors are cheap but only last ~300hours tbo and when they fail, almost always fail catasrophically as in the engine stops in air.

4-strokes are much hardier and generally fail gradually losing power so you generally have enough time to get on the ground.

http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?mode=search&PHPSESS...c9c06eba487cd11eff2f (http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?mode=search&PHPSESSID=f0dc62612e6bc9c06eba487cd11eff2f)

http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?mode=search&PHPSESS...c9c06eba487cd11eff2f (http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?mode=search&PHPSESSID=f0dc62612e6bc9c06eba487cd11eff2f)

http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?mode=search&PHPSESS...c9c06eba487cd11eff2f (http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?mode=search&PHPSESSID=f0dc62612e6bc9c06eba487cd11eff2f)

LEBillfish
12-24-2008, 04:35 PM
I am Icarus........though a tad more imbalanced.

K2

ElAurens
12-24-2008, 06:26 PM
Billfish, a forward CG is always preferable.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

mortoma
12-24-2008, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by Badsight-:
as others have already said , planes have been stolen for joy-flights by completely in-experienced people , who managed to take-off fly around & land in their very first turn behind the controls

besides landing , flying around is easy Not necessarily, even "flying around" could be fatal if one does not keep his speed up. There was a case a few years back where a student pilot was flying his first solo. Turning downwind to base, he got too slow during the turn, stalled and lost control and died on impact. The aforementioned kid that stole the aircraft was just lucky is all. I would not recommend anyone trying such a stupid stunt. I guess he knew about the mixture control somehow too. Sim experience might help some but you can still get killed without proper lessons. The young Ohio man I was talking about had already had at least 20 hours in the air but still died. Far better than just simming experience.

BOA_Allmenroder
12-24-2008, 08:38 PM
I always laugh at this question.

Let me put my answer this way: we all drive autos routinely. That does not mean we can drive a Nascar Cup car at 190 mph, even if you're playing NASCAR 2000+ on your Xbox or Playstation.

M_Gunz
12-25-2008, 03:05 AM
Time spent in ground school or real flying has a much greater impact on sim flying than time spent in sims does on real flying.

Xiolablu3
12-25-2008, 05:48 AM
Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I remember some guy going for his first flight in a small plane and his instructor saying ' you play flight sims dont you?'

He said yes. The instructor said he could tell because he had a basic understanding on how to fly without ever flying for real before.

I had pretty much an identical conversation with the instructor the first lesson. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was probably you then mate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

azamato2007
12-25-2008, 09:06 AM
before i played IL i didnt know **** about rudders and effects and flaps and all that XD
now i know http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

rnzoli
12-25-2008, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by Superjew1:
I was wondering how realistic this flight sim was to actual flying, and if I can learn to fly the planes in IL2 Sturmovik, if it would be possible for me to fly something simple like a Cessna 172 in real life?

Absolutely NOT.
You would learn too many bad habits, which you have to un-learn first.
I have heard about instructors who are really suspicious about students, who played flight sims as none of them properly teach the "feeling" of flight, but they teach too high banking in turns, impunity of abrupt changes, and of course, the availibity of "Refly" after crashing.

As said before, FSX and other civilian sims are good for learning flight by instruments, navigation practice etc. Also help on basic engine management and how controls work, but the very very basics (feeling of speed, judgement of height and attitude) must be picked up in real airplanes.

IL-2 can be a great flight sim for realism on PC, which can be great for learning a bit more on aerobatic flight, but it doesn't really give you good background for Cessnas, not at all.

eindecker
12-25-2008, 12:13 PM
I purchased the "training package" in the back seat of the collings foundation P-51C.
One hour for $3200 US.
To sum it up, there is only one thing you would do
if you had to fly a real P-51 after learning from this sim.
=DIE very quickly.=
The real thing accelerates much faster(crushing acceleration right up to 300mph ias!), has a rather pronounced tail swing on takeoff, and it very sensative on the controls.
The P-51C was a delight to fly being very powerful and handeled extrodinarilly well.
I would like to see Oleg fly it, he would ditch this
sad flight model very quickly after a ride.
Oh, on the landing the P-51C sunk like a brick at just the right time.
What a contrast to the glider like power off controls in this sim.

Eindecker

StellarRat
12-25-2008, 12:56 PM
I certainly found that "real" flying in civil aircraft was much, much, tamer than the way I fly in IL2. You don't toss a Cessna around the same way you can almost any plane in IL2. It's not a fighter plane! Altitude is mostly controlled with engine power and there are no 90 degree banks, split-s's, hammerheads, barrel rolls, upside down flying or mega-fast power dives you'd want to be doing in a Cessna even if you (and your instructor) had the guts to try it. When you take those controls your goal is to do everything smoothly, correctly, and in as non-risky a way as possible. There is no reset. And you're not in a fighter. Just like you can't drive your van around town like an Indy car.

crucislancer
12-25-2008, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by AWL_Spinner:
MOST people who have gone simulator -> flight training will say it gave them some advantage. If you want to try for a private license, FS-X is really valuable for things like instrument navigation and can save you $$$ otherwise spent training in the air.

A few years ago my dad was really into MS Flight Simulator, don't recall which version. Anyway, for his birthday my mom got him a discovery flight, and he said that some of the FS training was quite useful, but of course couldn't match the real thing. The instructor let him do as much as possible, walking him through pre-flight and then letting him take-off, fly around, then get into the pattern. The only thing he didn't do was perform the landing. I'm not sure how much of that was because of FS, or just the instructor was great and my dad took to it. Sadly, it was one of those hobbies that he couldn't keep up with, most likely money reasons.

I would figure that if I went up with someone in a plane, I could take control with confidence, but forget anything like landing. I've been doing this long enough that I understand flying, the principals and such, but I would be way too nervous to land it.

The funny thing is, a few months ago I went online to find out how much it would cost for a discovery flight. I got a $100 coupon, but with money so tight recently, I haven't been able to redeem it. It turns out that the site I got it through is associated with the AOPA, so I've been getting some issues of Flight Training magazine in the mail along with an offer to join the AOPA. Great info in those mags, but I couldn't afford the lesson fees if I worked 3 jobs and sold my body. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

slipBall
12-25-2008, 01:59 PM
like a Cessna 172 in real life


I think so, that is, if you land with NO problem's in game...you would need to know all the Cessna number's, and watch your gage's very carefully

mortoma
12-25-2008, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by rnzoli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Superjew1:
I was wondering how realistic this flight sim was to actual flying, and if I can learn to fly the planes in IL2 Sturmovik, if it would be possible for me to fly something simple like a Cessna 172 in real life?

Absolutely NOT.
You would learn too many bad habits, which you have to un-learn first.
I have heard about instructors who are really suspicious about students, who played flight sims as none of them properly teach the "feeling" of flight, but they teach too high banking in turns, impunity of abrupt changes, and of course, the availibity of "Refly" after crashing.

As said before, FSX and other civilian sims are good for learning flight by instruments, navigation practice etc. Also help on basic engine management and how controls work, but the very very basics (feeling of speed, judgement of height and attitude) must be picked up in real airplanes.

IL-2 can be a great flight sim for realism on PC, which can be great for learning a bit more on aerobatic flight, but it doesn't really give you good background for Cessnas, not at all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I think this is an exaggeration. I had none off the bad "habits" you mention. My instructor had 25,000 hours dating back to the Vietnam War in both helos and fixed. He was a certifed FAA examiner which is way higher up than just a regular instructor. He tested other instructors in everything except multis and turbine.

I had lot of sim experience, actually tons and I was his earliest solo ever at only 11 hours. During training he also checked me out in 3 different airplanes, which is two more than any other student he ever had!! And at the time I was his student, he had been an instructor for 25 years!

So those intructors you were talking about apparently never trained anyone who had previous sim experience. At least it's doubtful, so they do not know what they are talking about and making assumptions. And if you know any of them you can tell them I said they are so full of it that their eyes are brown. I was a natural pilot and sims helped me in some way but not in others. But in absolutely no way did it hurt me like you or those instructors insinuate. With the slight exception of me having to learn to steer on the ground with my feet. In my simmming experience at the time I had never had rudder pedals so I was used to taxiing with a yoke of joystick. But it only took me about an hour to get used to that. My instructor had me do about an hour of anti-veering where you get up to less than take off speed down the runway but still pretty fast. I got used to the rudder and brakes in ground handling very quickly.

M_Gunz
12-25-2008, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
I had lot of sim experience, actually tons and I was his earliest solo ever at only 11 hours.

Could you have soloed first time, without any hours IRL? Because that's the point isn't it?

And really since the sim teaches so well you should have been able to do all manner of maneuvers right off the bat too!

Pvt_Savard
12-25-2008, 08:46 PM
I started my flight school recently and it HELPS, but you don't know everything already.

Flying a plane is much more than just knowing how to taxi, take off and land. However, you can get used to many situations by repeating it in the flight sims. The first time I tried to taxi a cessna 172 G-1000, I had absolutely no problem. I felt like I was playing IL-2. I use rudder pedals for the sim so steering the plane with my feet became natural. And since I saw a lot of documentation about real flight (military mostly, but some civil as well), I knew how to fly to compensate for a strong crosswing like I had on my first flight. I didn't do the touchdown since I wasnt feeling confident enough to do it, there was bad meteo conditions and it would suck to break a plane on your first flight, but I did my finals and I stayed on the runway heading at all times. Flying a pattern was pretty easy in comparison with FSX or IL-2.

Il-2 isnt the best simulator to prepare yourself. X-plane got the best flight model out there, and FSX got the best real-world graphics. If you combine those 2, you can familiarize yourself with the area in FSX, and then familiarize yourself with the plane in X-plane 9. The stalls arent well modelized in any flight sim since it needs really complicated equations to render it, and nothing is close to reality. And another thing is to get used to fly with VFR rules. When we play flight sims we depend on the instruments to tell us if we fly level and for the speed. In real flying, the RPM comes into play. You gotta know how to set them depending of what you're flying. And to know if you fly level or got an "assiette de piquée/montée" (I'm learning it in french, I don't know the technical term in english), you gotta focus on the space between the horizon and the dash of your panel. Depending of your altitude, it will be different. You have to keep the same distance to keep the angle you want. When you go IFR, then you go back to the flight sims methods, which is more natural for us. When I flew for the first time, my instructor told me a few times to look outside. It's dangerous to keep your eyes inside the plane when in VFR. There might be other planes flying around, so you gotta be on the lookout. I had to fight some bad flight sim behaviors, but with a little work they went away.

So in resume, flight sims are a good start if you want to become a pilot, but don't think you know how to fly already. You got a LOT to learn. You know the basics only, and I guess not all the basic principles. Good luck with your project, if it's one.

VonKlugermon
12-25-2008, 09:32 PM
Hmmm, if LeBillFish is Icarus, can we see whats under the feathers!?

Willy

Bo_Nidle
12-25-2008, 10:17 PM
Can we fly in real life? Theres only one way too find out. We all go to the roof of our homes and jump off,...and if you land feet first you're a wimp!

TinyTim
12-26-2008, 01:40 AM
A friend of mine, who is an aerobatic instructor (flying mostly Zlin242, Extra300 and Su-26) often says that while generally people with simming experience do learn some aspects of aerobatic flying easier/sooner, it's rudder that they consistently neglect/have trouble using - much more trouble than students without any simming experience. An example he always uses is a 45degree bank coordinated turn - those with no simming experience will master it much sooner than others.

rnzoli
12-26-2008, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by mortoma:
sims helped me in some way but not in others. But in absolutely no way did it hurt me like you or those instructors insinuate.
...because....

Originally posted by mortoma:
I was a natural pilot

I corrected the logic for you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

In other words, I think you being a "natural" pilot had more to do with your success than your simming experience.

An average person might pick up more bad habits from flight sims and unlearn them much slower than a "natural" pilot (with good instincts).

And partly you may be right as well, some instructors say a lot of bad words about flight sims simply because they see a cheaper "competitor" in them - quite rightly so http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (in the navigation/IFR domains).

BSS_Sniper
12-26-2008, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by rnzoli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
sims helped me in some way but not in others. But in absolutely no way did it hurt me like you or those instructors insinuate.
...because....

Originally posted by mortoma:
I was a natural pilot

I corrected the logic for you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

In other words, I think you being a "natural" pilot had more to do with your success than your simming experience.

An average person might pick up more bad habits from flight sims and unlearn them much slower than a "natural" pilot (with good instincts).

And partly you may be right as well, some instructors say a lot of bad words about flight sims simply because they see a cheaper "competitor" in them - quite rightly so http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (in the navigation/IFR domains). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with learning bad habits. I just read an article recently in an AOPA magazine on this subject. It said that without proper instruction to go along with a flight sim, you will learn mostly bad habits. I think it's common sense.

squareusr
12-26-2008, 06:07 PM
In some insane hypothetical scenario, where you are a passenger in a Cessna and the pilot jumps off in mid-air, after he destroyed the radio, your chances of survival would certainly be higher with sim experience than without. Stupid little example: even if you don't know the specific landing speed of the plane, at least you know that there is a certain range that you should not leave in any direction.

By how much would your chances of survival exceed those of a guy who never learned anything from a sim? Who knows. You might still consider the other option, that is jumping after the pilot in order to wrestle him out of his chute, like you learned in the James Bond movies http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

M_Gunz
12-26-2008, 08:41 PM
That's a big difference than "I've got umpteen hours in sims, I'm okay to take a plane up.".
There's people who soloed in short time before even WWI. Every so often one would die in a flying accident as well.
Flying isn't totally counter-intuitive except to total dweebs and technophobes.

biggs222
12-26-2008, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
Billfish, a forward CG is always preferable.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

hahaha .... boobies. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

arrow80
12-30-2008, 04:17 AM
Well, just by flying Il2 and other sims like Falcon AF, Lock-on, EAW and also flying RC modelplanes a lot, I was able to solo at least a professional army Mig-29 simulator. After brief introduction to systems I was able to take-off, perform basic flight maneuvers, navigate and land. The biggest difference between our flight sims and that sim were the stick forces at higher speed (you need about 30 kg of force to apply just to move the lever or pedals at higher speeds, at lower speeds the controls get softer) and the stick travel, which you have to adapt to. They told me that I would pretty much be able to perform the basic flight with the real thing with a backup instructor. I agree with m_gunz, the planes are not designed to kill the pilot and flying is not as hard as people generally think. Of course the fun part are emergencies, but the basic flying, especially today with modern control systems is becoming easier and easier.

FlatSpinMan
12-30-2008, 05:15 AM
Interestingly enough I just happened to take a brief introduction flight two days ago when I was in Guam.
My answer is "Yes. I think it does help you with reading guages, understanding how energy can bleed off in turns etc, but the real thing is very very different and you would be a fool to underestimate the difference."

Chris0382
12-30-2008, 05:45 AM
I know you.

You just want to fly but not take off or land.

Sturm_Williger
12-30-2008, 08:23 AM
I've loved and played flight sims for many years. A couple of years ago, I was lucky enough to fly the Tiger Moth at Duxford ( just the in-air part when the pilot lets you take the controls ). After reaching alt, the pilot allowed me to do the three 90-degree turns to head back to the field.

Afterwards, he complimented me on my level flight - which I ascribe to my flight sim experience.

However, I must note that - the Moth was VERY responsive to controls - it took very little stick deflection to bank. It also took ALL my concentration to maintain co-ordination and not to lose altitude. I had an almost total fixation on the few gauges ( one can imagine how easily you would get bounced if flying a WWI two-seater and trying to maintain position over a target to be photographed ).

I certainly would not have wanted to attempt to land it. Flight sim experience may have helped me do what little the pilot allowed me to do, I doubt it would have gone further than that though.

It's about £90 for the short flight, worth every penny though http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

crucislancer
12-30-2008, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by Sturm_Williger:
I've loved and played flight sims for many years. A couple of years ago, I was lucky enough to fly the Tiger Moth at Duxford ( just the in-air part when the pilot lets you take the controls ). After reaching alt, the pilot allowed me to do the three 90-degree turns to head back to the field.

Afterwards, he complimented me on my level flight - which I ascribe to my flight sim experience.

However, I must note that - the Moth was VERY responsive to controls - it took very little stick deflection to bank. It also took ALL my concentration to maintain co-ordination and not to lose altitude. I had an almost total fixation on the few gauges ( one can imagine how easily you would get bounced if flying a WWI two-seater and trying to maintain position over a target to be photographed ).

I certainly would not have wanted to attempt to land it. Flight sim experience may have helped me do what little the pilot allowed me to do, I doubt it would have gone further than that though.

It's about £90 for the short flight, worth every penny though http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

If I ever get back to the UK for holiday, I'm there. A small price to pay to fly in a classic, IMHO.

WTE_Galway
12-30-2008, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by squareusr:
In some insane hypothetical scenario, where you are a passenger in a Cessna and the pilot jumps off in mid-air, after he destroyed the radio, your chances of survival would certainly be higher with sim experience than without. Stupid little example: even if you don't know the specific landing speed of the plane, at least you know that there is a certain range that you should not leave in any direction.

By how much would your chances of survival exceed those of a guy who never learned anything from a sim? Who knows. You might still consider the other option, that is jumping after the pilot in order to wrestle him out of his chute, like you learned in the James Bond movies http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Well ... the pilot having a heart attack or jumping out or being killed by terrorists is the classic fantasy a large percentage of simmers will have at some stage.

Though usually the fantasy also involves saving a hot girl or large number of grateful passengers and making the headlines ... aka "Flight Simmer with no flying training makes perfect landing in 747 and saves 120 passengers" .