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View Full Version : Fair Behaviour in HL Co-ops?



MB_Avro_UK
01-14-2008, 05:44 PM
Hi all,

Something that niggles me.

If I launch a co-op in Hyperlobby and others join and I'm shot down at an early stage (it happens!), I allow the game to run for maybe 15 minutes or more until the end.

But rarely does anyone thank me for keeping the game running.

It seems to me that the host is expected to keep the mission running even though he's dead.

I would just appreciate some sort of S! for doing the right thing.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

PBNA-Boosher
01-14-2008, 06:17 PM
You mean doing the right thing shouldn't be expected? To me, logically, it makes no sense to shut a mission down because just one player finished if there are twenty more online. Yes, I realize that there are some people who do it, but as I've seen they are not the majority. I believe people should do the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing, not because we'll get a pat on the back for it afterwards.

SeaFireLIV
01-14-2008, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
Hi all,

Something that niggles me.

If I launch a co-op in Hyperlobby and others join and I'm shot down at an early stage (it happens!), I allow the game to run for maybe 15 minutes or more until the end.

But rarely does anyone thank me for keeping the game running.

It seems to me that the host is expected to keep the mission running even though he's dead.

I would just appreciate some sort of S! for doing the right thing.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Is this tongue-in-cheek or serious?

Do you seriously expect everyone to notice that you`ve been shot down and then through the whole mission, remember, to later thank you on bended knee for being so nice as to keep the game going?

i`m sure you`re joking.

But i`ll humour you. A lot of players in the heat of combat don`t always check the chat bar area to see who`s gone. A lot of guys who join co ops don`t even know who the host is.

Most decent guys will say, "thanks host!" at the end of a co op, but they cannot always be expected to do that. It`s taken as given that they appreciate the game and your time.

But also it`s a two-way thing, they`re benefitting you (when you`re not getting yourself shot down) by flying in your co op and giving you fun.

Maybe you should greatfully thank each person who joins your server for actually being there and giving you a game.

Or you could just quit the moment you`re killed regardless of everyone else, but it would very bad form and I would like to see just how many people would join your co ops after you did that for a few games.

JG53Frankyboy
01-14-2008, 07:01 PM
actually its a "strange" thinking of end a coop mission because the host is shot down.............

remembering old VEF days, where the rule said the host had leave the mission open for 60minutes - sure was allowed to close earlier when all players landed before or were killed.

also in IOW and VOW it was normal that mission run 30-45 min , sometimes (espacially in the PTO) 60min - there must be the win message and the players had the chance to fly home ofter it...........

if you decide to host (what should be always appreciated !), you have to live with that i think.

-HH-Quazi
01-14-2008, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
Hi all,

Something that niggles me.

If I launch a co-op in Hyperlobby and others join and I'm shot down at an early stage (it happens!), I allow the game to run for maybe 15 minutes or more until the end.

But rarely does anyone thank me for keeping the game running.

It seems to me that the host is expected to keep the mission running even though he's dead.

I would just appreciate some sort of S! for doing the right thing.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro. I agree. If I were to get killed early on in a coop I was hosting on HL and continued to allow everyone else to have their fun? I'd better be getting some lip action on the ol' bum.

LEBillfish
01-14-2008, 07:45 PM
Well sad to say, however yes it is expected in that the host promised players could fly a coop/their mission not simply be extra's in his own personal one like AI.

Now I've actually flown some coops where the host is shot down early and instantly states "Coops over, if I'm not flying no one is"....and frankly that's BS as the host did NOTHING more then simply select the mission and press go it costing him nothing extra........We all sat there in HL waiting, we all went through all the motions he did.....Yet suddenly all the time we already have invested is out the window, more so in that many times many of the players sit there through the coop as well simply watching once down.


However.....Those who host routinely get praise, thanks and so on....SOme give it some don't....Yet if you simply host seeking praise and glory naturally having to win each mission or it ends vs. doing it out of generousity....Well then, I'd say don't host.

IMLTHO

Copperhead311th
01-14-2008, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Well sad to say, however yes it is expected in that the host promised players could fly a coop/their mission not simply be extra's in his own personal one like AI.

Now I've actually flown some coops where the host is shot down early and instantly states "Coops over, if I'm not flying no one is"....and frankly that's BS as the host did NOTHING more then simply select the mission and press go it costing him nothing extra........We all sat there in HL waiting, we all went through all the motions he did.....Yet suddenly all the time we already have invested is out the window, more so in that many times many of the players sit there through the coop as well simply watching once down.


However.....Those who host routinely get praise, thanks and so on....SOme give it some don't....Yet if you simply host seeking praise and glory naturally having to win each mission or it ends vs. doing it out of generousity....Well then, I'd say don't host.

IMLTHO
I agree. to me in my years here it's awlyas been expected that the host keep the mission running for everyone else. That's the duties of the host and it's just propper IL-2 eticuit (damn it i can't spell that word so i'm not trying. u know the word i mean) I NEVER stop a coop mission in priogress if i'm hosting. never never never. if planes are still in the air after combat i'll ask if anyone want's to RTB & land. if not and all agree then i'll shut it down and will run another or join in one going up.

and now that i have a rock solid connection speed and a better rig i'm going back to hosting coops again. and i'm even planing on going so far as posting the Mission logs from IL-2 MLR on the web for review for the players between coops. will take all of about 3 mins to get the reports and post them.

And as far as coop host go Avair is great. And always fun to coop with. and i will usually thank the host. So i'll give props to the guys that are good hosts. the ones that arent i just don't fly with. i'm not rude about it....i just don't join thier coops anymore.

If i'm hosting...i'll let the mission compleat. and i would expect the same from any other host.

Bearcat99
01-14-2008, 09:10 PM
IMO that comes with the territory. In some cases not only is it proper for the host to wait for the mission to end, but for everyone live to land as well, or at least state that he is ending it before he does.

JG52MadAdler
01-14-2008, 09:31 PM
Host should never just quit because they got KIA
I think everyone should stay put until the end.
Unless your doing a BoB 60 minute mission or something. Then you should excuse yourself first and give "TY 4 Hosting <S!>"

K_Freddie
01-15-2008, 01:03 AM
Generally a bit of TS (or other) comms helps. Some local guys here run 2 computers, one has the server, and he/she plays on the other one.

If the Host is KIA, he then says he's going out for a smoke/joint, cuppa tea/coffee or down to the shop.. and leave the game running.

And yes, at the end everybody usually thanks the host. But this is not on HL, as you do get a lot o wackos on here..
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

rnzoli
01-15-2008, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
Hi all,

Something that niggles me.

If I launch a co-op in Hyperlobby and others join and I'm shot down at an early stage (it happens!), I allow the game to run for maybe 15 minutes or more until the end.

But rarely does anyone thank me for keeping the game running.

It seems to me that the host is expected to keep the mission running even though he's dead.

I would just appreciate some sort of S! for doing the right thing.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.
Well, the host is expect to behave like a host, not just another player. Which means: the mission must be running even if the host died on takeoff, and the rest of the flight will take 2 hours.

On a related note, the dedicated (stand-alon) co-op server was "invented" to address this problem too. Those co-ops run for a certain minimum time, if players are in game. The host is just a machine, which is very patient http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The funny thing is that even there I often see the typical "S! Thx host!" signoff from players leaving an ongoing mission. However, this is always from experienced squadron members, who participate in AW and other co-op events.

Freelancers almost never do this, so if you want to be realistic, don't expect them to do this. The best you can get from them is that they come to play with you, and don't TK you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If you insist on wanting the extra "S!", maybe ask for it in the briefings of your missions! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Don_X
01-15-2008, 02:49 AM
And yes, at the end everybody usually thanks the host. But this is not on HL, as you do get a lot o wackos on here..
Cool
Lol you only have to read the chat. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/353.gif
__________________________________________________

As Bearcat said "it comes with the territory".

It's only proper to ask if all have landed, or OK to quit? (chatbar- to "ALL")

WOODY01
01-15-2008, 03:41 AM
The Flying Kiwis have an unwritten rule, if someone spoons it up on takeoff we will restart once, the second restart is the real deal and the mission will run untill all Pilots are down regardless of who gets shot down host and all. Sort of like Fault's in tennis http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Host considering quitting because he gets dead? How rude!

greybeard307
01-15-2008, 03:59 AM
Normally while hosting Co-ops, if somebody cracks up on take off, we will re-start if everybody agrees. If anybody gets shot down or crashes after we have formed up then they will take screenshots for the squad website, or follow the action from the outside views to act as an extra pair of eyes for squadmates. As host and mission builder for the squad I always appreciate any thanks and welcome suggestions for mission scenarios, but its not something I expect or demand.

TgD Thunderbolt56
01-15-2008, 07:44 AM
http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif

blairgowrie
01-15-2008, 12:41 PM
I do a lot of the hosting for our squad.

If someone crashes on take-off, players have 20 seconds to shoot down closest m8, then restart with air start.

For mission ending, the 80% rule applies. If 80% of pilots are down or dead, hoster may end mission after confirming nobody is still engaged. Before we put that rule in, I remember one guy taking 20 minutes to return to base and then crashing on final, while 15 pilots watched.

I usually don't survive long in a mission but enjoy watching others do their thing.

Swivet
01-15-2008, 02:00 PM
Maybe it will force the host or that person to be a better player. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif Onething if your running a DF game and can rejoin at will, but if you cant rejoin then you make sure you dont crash or get killed early on, because theres nothing worse than waiting for a server to fill up then wait to select your AC and loadout then wait for everyone to hit "fly" only to crash 10 seconds into game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif War is a thankless activity. Like stated above, you should thank the guys for joining to have enough players to run a game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

DxyFlyr
01-15-2008, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by blairgowrie:
...If someone crashes on take-off, players have 20 seconds to shoot down closest m8, then restart with air start.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

That's beautiful! I love the 20 second rule. Funny stuff.


I can count on one hand the number of times a host has killed a mission because he bought it early. And at least one of those times it was an accident. He forgot he was hosting. lol I just haven't noticed that happening much at all, but then I'm fairly choosy about whose coop I jump into.

Killing a coop for everyone because you're out of the game? I'd call that bad form. Do we need someone's momma to come in here and teach us some proper manners? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

That being said, it is also bad form to not be appreciative of those that host. Hosting can be a pain. I try to remember to S! the host-- and do more often than not. But hey, it's not all bad. The host gets to pick the battle. He picks the planesets, the map, the difficulty settings, the time period, icon distances, etc. It's the host's show. There are definite advantages to hosting. You get the game exactly like you like it. It's not like hosting is such an awful heavy burden.

MB_Avro_UK
01-15-2008, 04:44 PM
Thanks for your opinions guys http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I always keep the game running even if within 5 minutes I'm dead. The exception I make is if myself or someone else crashes on take off. I will then restart.

Only a minority can host in HL from my experience. I don't know why that is so.

All I'm looking for is a bit of appreciation to the host who keeps the mission running for maybe 20 minutes despite being 'dead'.

Not too much to ask in my opinion.


Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Viper2005_
01-15-2008, 05:08 PM
Are you fishing?

If you are unsatisfied with the appreciation showed to you, you basically have 2 options:

1) Charge a fee* for admission.

2) Quit hosting.

Personally, if I flew on a dogfight server and got kicked for shooting down a certain player, I'd complain, and if I didn't get any joy I'd leave.

Why should coop be any different in this respect?

IMO you should consider yourself lucky since as the host you are the equivalent of the referee in a football match. Yet you get to pick a side and play.

If you want to enjoy the protection associated with the position of referee, you need to accept the limitations associated with that position (ie, thou shalt not participate in the action).

With great power comes great responsibility. If you don't want it, don't buy it; the chances are that nobody is holding you up at gunpoint to host... Don't expect to be applauded for not abusing your powers as host, any more than I expect that you should applaud me for not libelling you, robbing you or whatever.

Of course, you are free to end coops as soon as you get shot down.
But equally, everybody else is free to learn from the experience and choose never to fly in your coops again... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Enjoy thanks when they are freely offered at the exit and you will probably find yourself happier than had you demanded thanks at the entrance...

*Ranging from an "S" or two to a $ or two...

Zeus-cat
01-15-2008, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by blairgowrie:
I do a lot of the hosting for our squad.

If someone crashes on take-off, players have 20 seconds to shoot down closest m8, then restart with air start.


The Hell_Hounds do the same thing. We had several m8s crash on takeoff last Saturday (visiting Danger Dogs if I recall correctly) and for 30 to 60 seconds you can go after ANY target in sight. Guys on the runway with bombs will drop them to take out their m8s. The guy with the biggest negative score is the "winner".

SeaFireLIV
01-15-2008, 05:36 PM
I remember only once when I was on a server that a guy quit the CO OP in full flow because he was killed. I was quite stunned. I couldn`t believe any could be so selfish as to cut off 20 Human players for his own benefit.

This is why I think some online Players (not only in IL2) think they`re fighting AI still when online. But I guess some guys are just plain selfish.

I could never knowingly quit a server with people still flying on it unless there was some kind of emergency and even then I`d try to warn first. It just isn`t natural or polite.

Worf101
01-16-2008, 06:24 AM
In all my years as a Red Tail I've never seen us end a CooP early. Particularly since that's what we fly 99% of the time (no pun intended) with an occaisional foray into a DF server. I personally think we let the coops run TOO long. "Patches" who hosts the majority of the time will let em run. If he's shot down, he gets a beer and watches the action or the game on T.V.

If externals were off, playing Coops would be one boring thing. I'd say 60% of the time we're thanked for hosting either before or after the mission. If we're thanked, fine that's gravy, if everyone had a good time... ahh, now there's the meat.

Da Worfster

LEBillfish
01-16-2008, 06:27 AM
Where a coop becomes a problem is when players treat it as a FPS trying to hunt down as many kills as is possible vs. performing the mission and RTB'g.....It ends up making some coops rediculous in length, and stretch way beyond the attempt at a realistic mission they're meant to try and portray.

DKoor
01-16-2008, 06:34 AM
I don't quit when I'm dead even if I don't host a mission.

But the problem is...... many if not most of the people have 0% respect towards other people's efforts.

They take it all for granted.

Missions, hosts, skins etc.

Like other people are living to amuse them.

MB_Avro_UK
01-16-2008, 01:47 PM
And another thing! Why do some players complain upon starting the co-op that the settings are not what they want?

The settings can be seen before joining http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

I and my squad tend to use unlim ammo as we have many targets. We try to use the ammo as if unlimited ie get close and use short bursts.

Would it be possible in BoB SoW to configure the maximum burst on unlim ammo to say a max of 3 or 4 seconds for an individual target?

Just a crazy thought!

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.