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neil_1821
05-04-2005, 09:57 AM
Hi,
I seem to be getting into constant spins when i have a full payload and also when trying to out turn the enemy behind me. Does anyone know of any tips/tricks to get out of one of these because it's starting to become quite annoying.
Thanks

VW-IceFire
05-04-2005, 10:26 AM
To get out of them you have to be quite exceptional on the controls really. Here's the checklist.

1) Throttle to idle
2) Let go of the controls
3) Use rudder opposite to the spin
4) Drop landing gear if you still can't get out

Some planes are unrecovereable once in a spin, the P-39, P-63, and the Ta-152H (although that is not historical) are all bad offenders. So are the bombers.

One tip, however, is that while you may learn to be good at getting out spins, you should never get yourself into one in the first place. Out turning the enemy behind you means you already made the mistake of letting him get there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

3.JG51_BigBear
05-04-2005, 11:01 AM
I cut throttle and use opposite rudder, positive aileron (roll in the same direction as the spin). You'll come out pointing straight down. If you can, fly this way for a second or two to stabalize the plane. Then pull out slowly while gradually puting on power. If you slam the throttle forward and yank on the stick you'll go right back into the spin.

VF51_Flatspin
05-04-2005, 11:57 AM
Almost too obvious to state but: you need a LOT of altitude to recover from a flat spin. If you're less than 2000m, consider bailing.

Banger2004
05-04-2005, 12:15 PM
I agree with VW-Icefire, except for one point. In my experience on a Spit, Hurricane, Me 109 or Zero, cut throttle etc, but push stick forward to try to dive. You spin because your aircraft is too slow to fly (one wing has 'stalled'), so you must try to gain speed.

By all means, try dropping undercarriage etc, but I personally do not use ailerons. Once you have gained speed and stopped the spin, give full throttle, lift flaps/undercarriage, increase speed rapidly (the ground is getting closer don't forget!) and pull out smoothly.

Thankfully, as I gain experience spins are becoming less of an issue for me, but I would say that provided you have some height, 6-7 out of 10 times a flat spin is recoverable, depending on aircraft type.

Whatever happens, don't lose heart, things will get better without you realising it!

neil_1821
05-04-2005, 02:01 PM
Well i realized that i shouldn't of let the enemy get behind me but when you encounter 30 zeros and there's only 4 of you it's a little hard not too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
I have found a way of getting out of them, which is exactely the same as you all said, cut throttle to idle, opposite rudder, then when she's stopped spinning increase power and pull out of the dive. I only knew this because that's what i have to do in private cessna's (and i'm only 16, being flying solo http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif) I like the tip about the landing gear, i've never thought of that, depending upon what speed your falling you might rip them out but that's a little price to pay for your own life!!!!.
Thanks for the help.

One more quick question, what headsets do people recommend for playing online in a squadron, here are the specs of one i'm looking at the moment:
* 20-20,000 Hz headset frequency range
* 50-16,000 Hz microphone freqency range
* 32 Ohms impedance
* 101 db+4db sensitivity
* Extended 250cm cable included Volume control
* Product size (h x w x d in mm)
* 145 x 130 x 60
* Folded in 95 x 65 x 45.
Any advise would be appreciated.

jarink
05-04-2005, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
One tip, however, is that while you may learn to be good at getting out spins, you should never get yourself into one in the first place. Out turning the enemy behind you means you already made the mistake of letting him get there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I remember reading of German pilots later in the war using this as an escape tactic when under overwhelming attack. They called it using their "emergency brakes".

tigertalon
05-04-2005, 02:58 PM
1. Let controls go
2. Apply full opposite rudder
3. Deploy landing (full) flaps (even gear if you need)
4. Throttle to 100+WEP
5. Throttle cut to 0
6. Throttle back to 100%+WEP rapidly

Depends on which direction you are spinning, but engine torque should get you out of it on most planes in steps 5 or 6.

Practice, practice, practice.

Try to feel your plane before it enters flat spin. Listen to it, it tells you a lot.

BTW, Ice, bombers are quite easy to recover. You cut the outer engine to 0 and inner to max power (besides all other steps) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

EmKen
05-04-2005, 04:50 PM
I am not sure if a flat spin is necessarily recoverable. The Airacobra\Kingcobra are particularly susceptible to this because of their centrally mounted engines. A flat spin is when an aircraft is uncontrolable in the yaw axis, ie that controlled by the rudder. As this is irrelevant of thrust, the normal spin recovery techniques don't apply (cut power, turn into the spin -just like a two dimensional car).
I have never been able to recover from a proper flat spin, and would love advice from those that van.

Slainte,

Emken

TX-EcoDragon
05-04-2005, 06:33 PM
In the sim some "in-spin" aileron can be helpful in the strange spiral that some planes enter instead of a spin (like Ta152) but generally aileron is the control to worry about the least, and it is generally best to leave it neutral in the sim (and often critical in the real world as it can flatten the spin).
Proper spin recovery in general is done in the following way:

Power-Off
Ailerons-Neutral
Rudder-Opposite the direction of yaw
Elevator-Through neutral to lower angle of attack (so push forward if upright or pull back if inverted, to drive the nose towards the ground and lower the angle of attack

The following sim specific techniques (as these deviate from correct procedures in reality) can be handy in some planes like the P-39 or Ta-152: add in spin aileron, and power, and even flaps/gear.

The flat spin is different from the conventional spin in that power is high (which flattens the spin) and out spin aileron are added. In teh instances where the spin has gone flat due to a balance issue (aft CG) the situation is more complicated, and not really applicable to the sim. You usualy be able to recover using the PARE method mentioned above, in planes such as the Ta152 just modify them to include adding in spin aileron and adding power (after initially having it off) after teh intial 4 steps.

Jex_TG
05-05-2005, 05:36 AM
Full payload? Drop all externals as soon as you get into combat. That stuff just makes your plane less manoeuvreable http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Te_Vigo
05-05-2005, 08:58 AM
Ingame?
Cut throttle to 0%
Rudder full lock in opposite direction to spin
Drop flaps to full
Curse
Curse some more
Ask self, why did I get here?
Get dizzy from the spinning and cursing
Be thankfull there was enough altitude
...If you haven't come out of the spin by this stage...
Drop landing gear.
...if that doesn't work bail out...........

When spin is under control
gently increase power and very gently pull the nose up and reduce flaps
pull up gear and when under full control raise flaps and wipe brow

works for most planes I fly but some just won't come out

ronison
05-05-2005, 08:31 PM
3.JG51_BigBear posted Wed May 04 2005 10:01
I cut throttle and use opposite rudder, <span class="ev_code_RED">positive aileron (roll in the same direction as the spin). </span> You'll come out pointing straight down. If you can, fly this way for a second or two to stabalize the plane. Then pull out slowly while gradually puting on power. If you slam the throttle forward and yank on the stick you'll go right back into the spin.

This is simply wrong. The only thing you do is by adding ailerons is put undue stress on the wing spars. Let me give you a small visual. The \____ I will use is looking at the wings from the ends.

---------> wind direction \_____ right wing on a counter clock wise spin will cause this wing to rise. <------- wind direction /----- left wing will cuase the wing to rise.

In the above example all you are doing is causing both wings to "Fold up" at the same time there is no "Roll" of the plane because the wind is going in oppisit directions on both wings causing the same situation. Reverse the above for a clockwise spin and you have the wings "Folding down" puting downward stress on the wing spars.

It may work but the ailerons are not doing a thing to your plane to get you out of the spin. It is all the rudder, when it works.

WTE_Target
05-05-2005, 08:46 PM
I use stick neutral ,rudder oposite spin and find it gets me out of spins mostly.Sometimes I add neg elevator to nose down but mostly the spin has recovered by then.

3.JG51_BigBear
05-05-2005, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by ronison:
3.JG51_BigBear posted Wed May 04 2005 10:01
I cut throttle and use opposite rudder, <span class="ev_code_RED">positive aileron (roll in the same direction as the spin). </span> You'll come out pointing straight down. If you can, fly this way for a second or two to stabalize the plane. Then pull out slowly while gradually puting on power. If you slam the throttle forward and yank on the stick you'll go right back into the spin.

This is simply wrong. The only thing you do is by adding ailerons is put undue stress on the wing spars. Let me give you a small visual. The \____ I will use is looking at the wings from the ends.

---------> wind direction \_____ right wing on a counter clock wise spin will cause this wing to rise. <------- wind direction /----- left wing will cuase the wing to rise.

In the above example all you are doing is causing both wings to "Fold up" at the same time there is no "Roll" of the plane because the wind is going in oppisit directions on both wings causing the same situation. Reverse the above for a clockwise spin and you have the wings "Folding down" puting downward stress on the wing spars.

It may work but the ailerons are not doing a thing to your plane to get you out of the spin. It is all the rudder, when it works.

You know this is a game right. In my experience putting in positive aileron helps the plane get out of a spin faster in game. In real life this is not the case.

ronison
05-05-2005, 10:29 PM
Yes I know it is a game but I would think that something this basic would be modled in this game. This fact is a very basic part to the the theory of flight. If it helps more power to you but I'm just saying it will actully not roll the plane at all it will simply put load on the wings.

3.JG51_BigBear
05-06-2005, 06:24 AM
I got ya. It would make sense that this wouldn't work given the quality of this sim but there are certainly limitations in this engine and for some reason using ailerons has to effect of snap rolling the plane out of the spin. Like the problems with torque and certain planes bouncing all over the place on the ground its just a limit/problem that hasn't been addressed.