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Tatzelwurm
09-08-2008, 02:18 AM
Played for years with a good old MS Sidewinder until support stopped. Converted to a Cyborg Evo-force which was undescribably awful....

Any recommendations for a simple replacement please??

fabianfred
09-08-2008, 03:02 AM
Saitek Aviator AV8R

Chris0382
09-08-2008, 05:01 AM
Originally posted by fabianfred:
Saitek Aviator AV8R

CH Fighterstick. It will last and its almost infinit how you can program the thing. Its also very responsive.

Stingray333
09-08-2008, 07:28 AM
For a simple inexpensive joystick, I also recommend the Saitek AV8R, lots of buttons, two throttle levers, two-stage trigger, hat switch, works great, cheap and robust. I see them used on craigslist for between $5-$15 so it may be possible to get one quite cheap!

If your looking to spend more money, X-52 pro, CH fighterstick, or Thrustmaster Cougar system are the commonly used high-end sticks,

Stingray

WTE_Galway
09-08-2008, 07:39 AM
I loves my MSFFB2

Bearcat99
09-08-2008, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
I loves my MSFFB2

+1

rat0a
09-08-2008, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
I loves my MSFFB2

+1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+2

Search Ebay for USED ONE

BrotherVoodoo
09-08-2008, 08:43 AM
If you want it to last forever, go CH. All of their gear is top notch.

jayhall0315
09-08-2008, 08:56 AM
I have owned the CH Fighterstick for five months and two words sum it up, precise and tough. There is absolutely no play at the center and it is infinitely programmable. I did use a X-52 from Saitek for about a month to write a review for one of my guides, but that HOTAS developed play at the center of the stick after about two weeks (although it was minor).

CH stuff has just worked very well for me.

Jay

Mr_Zooly
09-08-2008, 02:37 PM
Saitek evo force here but i am looking into getting an AV8R.

VMF-214_HaVoK
09-08-2008, 02:41 PM
CH Fighterstick , CH Pro Throttle, CH Pro Pedals FTW! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

S!

Mr_Zooly
09-08-2008, 02:44 PM
I have a friend that owns a FFB2 but I cant seem to persuade him to let it go. I did send one to New Zealand a few years ago, I do wish in hindsight that I kept it myself http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

Aaron_GT
09-08-2008, 02:52 PM
+3

funkster319
09-08-2008, 02:53 PM
Got a MSFFB2 which is nice except for the shortage of buttons/ button placement....other than that its greathowever !!!!


Never used since I got my CH fighterstick - Cant beat it IMO plus it goes with all my other CH gear too :O)

rat0a
09-08-2008, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by funkster319:
Got a MSFFB2 which is nice except for the shortage of buttons/ button placement....other than that its greathowever !!!!


Never used since I got my CH fighterstick - Cant beat it IMO plus it goes with all my other CH gear too :O)

Good point and thats my only complain with my
MSFF2 (not enough buttons)but in my case I like
FFB alot, now I do own CH throttle and pedals
and in combination with my MSFFB2 is a great setup.

CH products used to made a FFB joystick (CH Foce FX) sadly they don't make those no more
but the day they decide to make one I'm going
to be one of the first to get it but I ain't holding my breath since they say that licensing
Immersion technology cost alot $$$$

fabianfred
09-08-2008, 06:10 PM
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/fabianfred537/010808024.jpg

I have two AV8R's on the desktop with their levers towards me for throttles and trim

and use the M$FFBSW2 for play.... mouse and trackball for view.... (no TIR http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif)

Stingray333
09-08-2008, 06:31 PM
Cool setup fabianfred, I've done something similar to my Saitek Av8r, I took it apart and removed the joystick part, and mounted the rest so its a throttle quadrant:

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/3255/flight1kh7.jpg

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/8391/flight2ds3.jpg

Since this pic has been taken I have cleaned up the av8r, painted it and added rudder pedals to the setup. No more gear purchases necessary for me, but I am toying with the idea of getting a CH stick.....

Stingray

LEBillfish
09-08-2008, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by fabianfred:
Saitek Aviator AV8R

Just picked up the Aviator today as my Logitech Extreme 3d Pro is starting to dance a bit and no amount of work on it will fix the sensors (tightened it all up and their contacts, so it's the pots that are going)....

HOWEVER......and I've not even fired up the AV8R....the dang thing doesn't have a cord long enough to reach anything!....What were they thinking? That folks still use "desktops" that sit on the desk?....It's rediculous! Worse still I can already see a problem with the toggle switches. Due to how I lay on my belly (odd ergonomic bench), the stick normally is about under my chin...So that means my *ahem* pectorial extensions will be hitting them...

Was not a good buy for me, how it works to be seen.

Going to take the Logitech (which by the way has worked great for roughly 3+ years) and put in my old MS SW PP optical components....Then I'll have a good stick.

K2

polak5
09-08-2008, 07:52 PM
ive lost count of what cyborg force im on... but i luv it.. wish the trottle control was different though.

Chivas
09-08-2008, 08:28 PM
The best stick is the MSFF2, and can still be found on ebay.

I use a Cougar throttle that has all the buttons and rotaries I need in combination with the MSFF2. The Cougar throttle is a real joy to use, and the foxy software is very good.

A cheap but precise alternative would be the Saitek Aviator, but I've found the Saitek software to be alittle flaky.

My Saitek X52 is junk. The stick is worse than the throttle.

My Ch stick is well made and should last a long time,but I don't like the clunky gimbal system.

My Cougar stick gimbals are even clunkier, but I hear good things about the modded Cougars, but very expensive. When I can no longer fix my MSFF2's I may try modding the Cougar with the car U-joint or paying for the mod.

I'm hearing that Microsoft is getting back into gaming peripherals so hopefully they will start making MSFF2's again.

JG52Uther
09-09-2008, 01:40 AM
If you want a decent stick that will last a year or two,get the AV8R.
If you want a great stick that will last pretty much indefinately get a CH.
For me buying the CH fighterstick was a big investment (100/$200 in the UK) but if it lasts as long as the numerous reviews says it will,it will work out more cost effective than numerous cheap replacement sticks in the end.

El_clampy
09-09-2008, 09:41 AM
i have tried others x52 pro etc but like previous posts i didn't really get on with them garp basically i thought . so i bought some more msffb2 off ebay and freinds i have now got five working examples and one brand new one i don't intend to run out any time soon

Tatzelwurm
01-09-2009, 04:14 AM
Guys thanks for your responses. I'm still searching....

Interested to see so many of you advocating the MSFFB2. Yes I can get one 2nd hand on ebay ....for an astronomic ammount!

Heres a question then: I'm not fussed about force feedback aspect and I loved my old Precision Pro. So would the much cheaper Precision 2 be good? I've seen that it works with XP but has static issues..

Any experiences/comments?

While we're at it, any comments on Logitech Cordless Freedom?

Urufu_Shinjiro
01-09-2009, 05:53 AM
Avoid Logitech like the plague! They make great keyboards and mice etc but their joysticks have a very nasty habit of lasting 2-3 months and dying. There are some who have had great success with their logitech sticks for years but they are the exception.

OD_
01-09-2009, 07:45 AM
I've had sticks from all of the above (except the Cougar) and say that CH Products is the only way forward.

I couldn't stand Saitek sticks with the springs and stuff. They kept jamming and the trigger button snapped in half on two sticks!

Logitech made really comfortable sticks, with great button placement, and the wireless one was excellent. But they didn't last long enough to make the investment worthwhile.

I tried the Sidewinder II (Non-forcefeedback) as I had been told how great it was and that it would never break...I hated it with a passion. The grip was uncomfortable, the buttons were poorly placed...the only reason mine would last forever would be because I refused to use it. Can't remember what I ended up doing with it, think I actually gave it away.

I tried a Force feedback Sidewinder 2 as well, I know lots of people like it, but I couldn't get on with it at all.

CH Products sticks kind of require you to have big hands to be able to reach all of the buttons without letting go of the stick! But they are solid, very reliable, very precise and you can program so much stuff into them that you're never short of buttons. I've got the Conbat Stick (for IL2) and the Fighter stick (for Lock On) combined with the pro Throttle and the pedals. It's an expensive set up as a one off payment bu they last so long you're unlikely to have to replace them for quite some time, if ever.

All of the above is purely my own opinion and experience, if you disagree I respect that...I know the Force Feedback Sidewinder 2 has a huge following...which is why they cost a fortune on ebay, but I never found FFB adding anything to the game, other than irritation.

b2spirita
01-09-2009, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by Urufu_Shinjiro:
Avoid Logitech like the plague! They make great keyboards and mice etc but their joysticks have a very nasty habit of lasting 2-3 months and dying. There are some who have had great success with their logitech sticks for years but they are the exception.

My ultrabudget one worked fine for over a year and im only replacing it due to its dissapearance following a house move.That said unless you are on a really tight budget go with what urfu said and look elsewhere.

TgD Thunderbolt56
01-10-2009, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by Mr_Zooly:
I have a friend that owns a FFB2 but I cant seem to persuade him to let it go. I did send one to New Zealand a few years ago, I do wish in hindsight that I kept it myself http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

I sent one to Canada and my last one to Czech Republic. I use CH and while more expensive on the front side, it'll easily last (or outlast) as long as you'll need it.

I've had 3 CH stick over the years and bought my first Flightstick in 1992. I still have all three of them and they are all still as precise as the day I took them out of the box (though the original 2 button Flightstick is gameport and I don't use it anymore).

na85
01-11-2009, 01:11 AM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:

Going to take the Logitech (which by the way has worked great for roughly 3+ years) and put in my old MS SW PP optical components....Then I'll have a good stick.

K2

Have you considered using Hall-Effect sensors? They're pretty easy to install. You just need a sensor and a cube-shaped magnet.

Enforcer572005
01-11-2009, 01:17 AM
I also highly recommend CH fighter stick and if you really wanna get into it, get some CH pedals to go with it.

I used my old combat stick serial port version for well over a decade.....alot. Only replaced it when I got my new computer and needed USB stick and pedals. Got a new fighter stick and pro pedals.

I've seen some video of USAF predator UAV operators attacking targets with those things, and the ones I saw are using CH sticks. I thought that was pretty neat, and ironic.

Odemkirtariy
01-11-2009, 04:28 AM
Avoid Logitech like the plague! They make great keyboards and mice etc but their joysticks have a very nasty habit of lasting 2-3 months and dying. There are some who have had great success with their logitech sticks for years but they are the exception.

Well..., I am glad to be an exeption http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Tatzelwurm
01-11-2009, 07:37 AM
Guys

Thanks for your comments. I appreciate your thoughts on this. Just to focus in a little, I'm afraid I can't be persuaded to get a Fighterstick, X52 or MSFFB2. They are outside budget.

As I mentioned before I was massively disappointed in the Cyborg Evo because of its HUGE and unadjustable mechanical deadband. The reason I am asking for comments on the Logitech Cordless Freedom is appears to have NO mechanical deadband at all. That said, if you, the brotherhood, tell me that it is more unreliable than the rest, than that will be it!

Still looking for comments on the reliability of a second hand MS Precision 2. Any takers??

Chris0382
01-11-2009, 09:32 AM
Ive had issues with CH Prod but still think its the best out there for the price. One the warrantee period is over, feel free to modify.


See the Frankenbat

http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum...highlight=frankenbat (http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5981&highlight=frankenbat)

horseback
01-11-2009, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by OD_:Logitech made really comfortable sticks, with great button placement, and the wireless one was excellent. But they didn't last long enough to make the investment worthwhile.

I tried the Sidewinder II (Non-forcefeedback) as I had been told how great it was and that it would never break...I hated it with a passion. The grip was uncomfortable, the buttons were poorly placed...the only reason mine would last forever would be because I refused to use it. Can't remember what I ended up doing with it, think I actually gave it away.

I tried a Force feedback Sidewinder 2 as well, I know lots of people like it, but I couldn't get on with it at all.

CH Products sticks kind of require you to have big hands to be able to reach all of the buttons without letting go of the stick! But they are solid, very reliable, very precise and you can program so much stuff into them that you're never short of buttons. I've got the Conbat Stick (for IL2) and the Fighter stick (for Lock On) combined with the pro Throttle and the pedals. It's an expensive set up as a one off payment bu they last so long you're unlikely to have to replace them for quite some time, if ever. Sounds largely like my own experience.

I've had the CH Products gear for close to 5 years now, and nary a glitch. About the big hands issue, may I suggest that if you are still using the hatswitch to look around, use the Control Manager software to choose the CH Throttle's hatswitch as your POV controller.

Those top buttons on the Fighterstick and the Combatstick are hard to reach with a normal human thumb, so I use them for rudder & elevator trim (hatswitch) and landing gear (Button 6 on my trusty Combatstck).

But as many have said, the CH Products gear will last forever, and the cost per hour of use is already approaching zero for me.

Compared to the rate of Logitech burnouts and replacements I had and the aggravation of the poor ergonomics of the MicroSoft sticks, the initial investment of $300 USD is almost infinitesimally small.

cheers

horseback