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cawimmer430
06-17-2007, 07:26 AM
Was browsing Wikipedia, found this:

While performing a slow circuit, Marseille broke away and performed an imaginary weaving dogfight. He was reprimanded, taken off flying duties and his promotion to Gefreiter postponed. Soon after, during a cross-country flight, he landed on a quiet stretch of autobahn and ran behind a tree to relieve himself. Some farmers came to assist but by the time they arrived Marseille was on his way, while they were blown back by the slipstream. Infuriated, the farmers made sure the story got out and Marseille was again suspended from flying. His rule-breaking left him at the rank of Oberfähnrich in the winter of 1941. Those he graduated with had been promoted to officers in the spring of 1940.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Joachim_Marseille


Is this true, or Wikipedia BS? This guy seemed like a likable fellow! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

trumper
06-17-2007, 09:23 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifwhen you have got to go you 've got to go. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Retrofish
06-17-2007, 10:09 AM
Some farmers came to assist

Assist with what? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

cawimmer430
06-17-2007, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by trumper:
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifwhen you have got to go you 've got to go. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LOL http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Would have been really funny if he landed on some stretch of English road during the Battle of Britain to relieve himself. And the farmer who came to help would have heard a "Cheers, mate" in a heavy German accent. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

cawimmer430
06-17-2007, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by Retrofish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Some farmers came to assist

Assist with what? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They probably thought he had performed an emergency landing due to engine trouble or something...

BrotherVoodoo
06-17-2007, 01:21 PM
Great story man! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

stalkervision
06-17-2007, 01:51 PM
Soon after, during a cross-country flight, he landed on a quiet stretch of autobahn and ran behind a tree to relieve himself. Some farmers came to assist but by the time they arrived Marseille was on his way, while they were blown back by the slipstream

what was quietly played down by the german luftwaffe at the time was the actual events of this story...

As you all know Marseille was quite the "ladies man" It was well known by all that knew him was that he couldn't walk by any "orfice" without wanting to fill it. Maybe this was because of his nick name around the barricks.."Hand Job Marseille" When he wasn't flying or other things he was cranking his motor over constantly. Some german pilots in later years actually blamed him for the luftwaffe losing the battle of britain because they got no sleep whatsoever it was that bad. Well the actual story goes like this of the incident. As you know of course Marseille landed to answer "nature's call" Apparently while looking at this tree he was watering he noticed it had a rather nice "knot hole" that reminded him of one of his ladies in paris. Being the totally oversexed individual he was he just couldn't resist the "invitation" The only problem was that he got stuck! Well these farmers noticed this pilot with his pants down totally stuck to their tree! Not wanting their sheep to be the next victums of this ***** tree humping pilot they went after him with their pitch forks "toot sweet". On seeing this Marseille cut short his wood boring activities losing a lot of skin it the process and ran with his pants down to his plane and made his escape..

It was rumored after this incident he would always said "I never met a tree I didn't love.." http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

mandrill7
06-17-2007, 03:17 PM
I heard the same story about Douglas Bader. Except it involved a sheep.

stalkervision
06-17-2007, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by mandrill7:
I heard the same story about Douglas Bader. Except it involved a sheep.

They were related by marriage... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Phil_K
06-17-2007, 03:44 PM
Ah.....Hans-Joachim Marseille. Best Parachutist of World War 2.

Survived 6 jumps in combat, but killed during a practice.

Jasko76
06-18-2007, 02:47 AM
Originally posted by Phil_K:
Ah.....Hans-Joachim Marseille. Best Parachutist of World War 2.

Survived 6 jumps in combat, but killed during a practice.

Tasteless... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

HotelBushranger
06-18-2007, 04:37 AM
Ah.....Hans-Joachim Marseille. Best Parachutist of World War 2.

Survived 6 jumps in combat, but killed during a practice

Uncalled for.

waffen-79
06-18-2007, 11:47 AM
At least the "Tree Stroy" was funny but the parachute thing is tasteless

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Phil_K
06-18-2007, 12:24 PM
True, though.

Sturmtrooper
06-18-2007, 12:39 PM
I wouldn't call jumping from your aircraft because the cockpit is filling with smoke due to engine problems "practice".

He was in dangerous situation and did the only thing that he could've done to save himself.

Sorry,Phil_K.
Your comment was in extreme poor taste and ignorant as well.

Phil_K
06-18-2007, 12:46 PM
Tough crowd.

I'd better not do any of my gags about Douglas Bader continually getting legless then....

JG53Frankyboy
06-18-2007, 12:47 PM
from the book "Feindberührung" by Meimberg:
1940, BoB , the 109 Squadron was ready for take off, engines running.
the Squadleader, famous Assi Hahn, opened its canopy, rushed out of the cockpit, put down his trousers and relieved himself on the runway http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

a must is a must http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Blood_Splat
06-18-2007, 12:58 PM
Sounds like he could have used flowmax.

JtD
06-18-2007, 01:05 PM
Marseille bailed because after extended engine troubles including lots of smoke the engine finally caught fire and the conditions in the cockpit got unbearable.
He probably got killed because he lost orientation either due to the absence of vision or toxic gases or the tremendous heat in the cockpit. When he bailed he got struck by his tail assembly and passed out, possibly suffering fatal injuries right there.

It wasn't a practice jump, it was an emergency and he bailed too late.

And I don't believe the original wiki story, must be made up. "quiet stretch of autobahn" pretty much gives it away as fictional. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Phil_K
06-18-2007, 01:14 PM
I believe the flight was a practice, not the jump.

Has literalism suddenly become mandatory round here?

Ruy Horta
06-18-2007, 01:18 PM
As for the bailing out sequence.

Although I can't remember where I read it Marseille discussed the best way to bail out with some fellow Jagdwaffe pilots.

Counter to general opinion that is was better to jump from a negative G situation, he thought it better to turn the plane on its back and fall out that way.

He might have lived if he had used the "regular" way.

Can't remember the source though...

Bewolf
06-18-2007, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by JtD:
Marseille bailed because after extended engine troubles including lots of smoke the engine finally caught fire and the conditions in the cockpit got unbearable.
He probably got killed because he lost orientation either due to the absence of vision or toxic gases or the tremendous heat in the cockpit. When he bailed he got struck by his tail assembly and passed out, possibly suffering fatal injuries right there.

It wasn't a practice jump, it was an emergency and he bailed too late.

And I don't believe the original wiki story, must be made up. "quiet stretch of autobahn" pretty much gives it away as fictional. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Not really ; )

back then large strechtes of the Autobahn were literally empty aside your unregulary bypassing single car. Motorrisation back in those days was not developed that far, neither was theurge to travel large distances =)

Sturmtrooper
06-18-2007, 05:33 PM
I believe the flight was a practice, not the jump.

The flight was a CAP.

That's Combat Air Patrol,Phil.

CAP ain't practice AFAIK.

Marseille was in a new Bf-109G.Having been recently re-equiped with the brand new type of fighter.

Was it just "teething trouble"?

(Yo,Phil.
That means a new piece of machinery being implimented before the bugs are ironed out.)
Probably.It was a new aircraft.

Unfortunately,he was on a combat patrol in this new aircraft.There weren't a whole lot of "practice" flights in the combat zone during that desert war.

The Luftwaffe wouldn't send up a rotte just for "practice" in Africa at that time.

Anyway,he struck the empenage(tail-plane)upon bailing out after he was overcome with smoke in the cockpit.
Nice,huh?

Look it up.

I don't mean to come off like an A-hole,Phil.But your comment:


Ah.....Hans-Joachim Marseille. Best Parachutist of World War 2.

Survived 6 jumps in combat, but killed during a practice.

well....that is in poor taste and it sux!!

stalkervision
06-18-2007, 05:44 PM
[quote]Marseille was in a new Bf-109G.Having been recently re-equiped with the brand new type of fighter.

Was it just "teething trouble"?


The first 109g's were indeed very troublesome..

Phil_K
06-19-2007, 09:46 AM
sturmtrooper (tasteful name - like it) less of the self-righteousness already.

Let's face it you could describe the whole IL2 experience as "tasteless" or at the very best "amoral". We get to fight for regimes of varying shades of political dubiousness, and perform actions of varying levels of moral dubiousness in their name. OK, most of the more extreme elements of the war have been "tastefully" airbrushed away (extermination camps, mass rapes, refugee-strafing, that kind of thing), but at the end of the day playing IL2 is not a moral clean sheet of paper. Not many people like to admit this, but like many computer games it allows us to be temporarily and harmlessly evil. Let's put it this way - I don't think John Pilger would approve of it (look him up).

As for Marseille, well he was someone who was employed to professionally kill people and took great pride in his job. That was (relatively) acceptable (by the standards of the day), but he was also extremely fortunate to have lived as long as he did, and unlike most victims of WW2, at least he had a degree of control over his fate. So you'll excuse me if I don't feel the need to cry crocodile tears over his death.

I can't be sure from the rather logorrheaic nature of your post as to whether you are more upset over me making a joke about his death or mistaking a combat flight for a practice one. Not really sure why you think this is so relevant.

What I do think is that before nominating what does and does not constitute taste, one should examine the environment in which that decision is made. Neither IL2 the game nor it's community constitute a baseline. We all make compromises to "taste" by playing it in the first place!

BSS_Goat
06-19-2007, 09:58 AM
Phil, a little advice, get out now while you can still show your face.

JtD
06-19-2007, 10:23 AM
Isn't the Il-2 series just a game whereas HJM really lived?

LStarosta
06-19-2007, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by Phil_K:
sturmtrooper (tasteful name - like it) less of the self-righteousness already.

Let's face it you could describe the whole IL2 experience as "tasteless" or at the very best "amoral". We get to fight for regimes of varying shades of political dubiousness, and perform actions of varying levels of moral dubiousness in their name. OK, most of the more extreme elements of the war have been "tastefully" airbrushed away (extermination camps, mass rapes, refugee-strafing, that kind of thing), but at the end of the day playing IL2 is not a moral clean sheet of paper. Not many people like to admit this, but like many computer games it allows us to be temporarily and harmlessly evil. Let's put it this way - I don't think John Pilger would approve of it (look him up).

As for Marseille, well he was someone who was employed to professionally kill people and took great pride in his job. That was (relatively) acceptable (by the standards of the day), but he was also extremely fortunate to have lived as long as he did, and unlike most victims of WW2, at least he had a degree of control over his fate. So you'll excuse me if I don't feel the need to cry crocodile tears over his death.

I can't be sure from the rather logorrheaic nature of your post as to whether you are more upset over me making a joke about his death or mistaking a combat flight for a practice one. Not really sure why you think this is so relevant.

What I do think is that before nominating what does and does not constitute taste, one should examine the environment in which that decision is made. Neither IL2 the game nor it's community constitute a baseline. We all make compromises to "taste" by playing it in the first place!

+1

Sturmtrooper
06-19-2007, 01:32 PM
logorrheaic
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Is that a typo? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blush.gif

Anyway,no croc-tears here dear. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

My point was that HJM was not "practicing" when he was killed.
That's all.
Period.

BTW,thanks for the compliment on my name. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gifI've used it ever since the first Il-2 Sturmovik game/sim was introduced.

na85
06-19-2007, 02:59 PM
I believe he meant logorrheic

Phil_K
06-21-2007, 12:25 PM
Cheers guys.

Honestly didn't mean to cause offense regarding Marseille. I just didn't realise that the death of a pilot 60+ years ago would actually be controversial.

Still, this is a website where the relative performance of the Spifire IX vs. the bf109G in mid-1943 causes real friction, so I should have known better.

I'll check my spelling before being Mr. Smartypants in future, Sturmtrooper! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Divine-Wind
06-21-2007, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Phil_K:
Ah.....Hans-Joachim Marseille. Best Parachutist of World War 2.

Survived 6 jumps in combat, but killed during a practice.
Give this man the "Irreverent B@stard of the Year" award.

Rammjaeger
06-21-2007, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
Give this man the "Irreverent B@stard of the Year" award.

At least his campaigns are great. That's what matters... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

pik_as
06-21-2007, 02:00 PM
You make me laugh.
Practice? Why would anyone be flying practice in a war zone? Given the constant lack of fuel the Afrika Korps suffered from, I can't imagine any authorization for a practice flight. And why would a pilot with 125 kills need practice? As far as bailing out, Marseille didn't hold that record either.
I suspect you're either trying to ruffle some feathers, or you're young and naive. I also can't believe I bothered to respond to such idioticy. Oh well...
Read a book. I recommend "Horrido" by Toliver & Constable.

Korolov1986
06-21-2007, 03:10 PM
So wait, you guys are upset because he said 6 combat jumps instead of 7?

*ducks* http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

TheGozr
06-21-2007, 03:38 PM
Hans-Joachim Marseille was born to Charlotte and Siegfried Marseille, a family with French-Huguenot ancestry in Berlin-Charlottenburg. It is thought his father Siegfried was a fighter pilot in World War I, however this is unconfirmed. What is known about Siegfried Marseille (according to the book German Fighter Ace Hans-Joachim Marseille -'The Star Of Africa') is that he was promoted to general in the Army in 1935. Other sources claim he was killed in action against Soviet Forces in the Stalingrad area in early 1943, once again this is not certain.

His mother and father divorced when Marseille was still a young child. His mother married again and took the name Reuter, which affected Marseille, although he retook the name Marseille in adulthood. His lack of discipline afforded him the reputation of a rebel, often getting himself into mischief, something that would plague him early on in his Luftwaffe career.


"Place of death Sidi Abd el Rahman"

At the very beginning of his flying in Africa, Marseille got shot down by a Hurricane flown by a Free French pilot. It made for him a very unimpressive start

Those Frenchs are born with a stick in their hands. **** http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ViktorViktor
06-22-2007, 04:24 AM
I guess the real measure of Marseille as a flyer would be how willing his fellow pilots were to fly as his wingman.

Was he a fellow who no one had qualms about flying with ?

raaaid
06-22-2007, 06:17 AM
would you fly with a guy who once flew in formation with an enemy squad? and would fight 16 to 1?

that doesnt mean he was not appreciated

he liked jazz music made by black american people, had a black helper, wore sneakers to piece off the nazis high hills boots wearers

i even think he didnt even like trully jazz music but he would have listened to it as he did just to get valkiria listeners mad

definitly he was not a nazi but a soldier and i bet that when he died moral fell down hugely

Divine-Wind
06-22-2007, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by TheGozr:
Those Frenchs are born with a stick in their hands. **** http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Does it have a white flag tied to it?


Sorry, couldn't resist. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

TheGozr
06-22-2007, 10:31 AM
Please clarify your say.. If you have nothing more to say Divine-Wind about a stupid uneducated thoughts ... get lost.. Waoo!! that felt good sry I couldn't resist etheir.

Urufu_Shinjiro
06-22-2007, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by TheGozr:
Please clarify your say.. If you have nothing more to say Divine-Wind about a stupid uneducated thoughts ... get lost.. Waoo!! that felt good sry I couldn't resist etheir.

"Now go away before I taunt you a second time-a!"

TheGozr
06-22-2007, 11:12 AM
Please do i have a book full of goodies for you as well.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Urufu_Shinjiro
06-22-2007, 11:27 AM
Not a monty python fan eh?

TheGozr
06-22-2007, 11:31 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cajun76
06-22-2007, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by TheGozr:
Please clarify your say.. If you have nothing more to say Divine-Wind about a stupid uneducated thoughts ... get lost.. Waoo!! that felt good sry I couldn't resist etheir.

DW, I think he asked for your http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

Everybody now!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif
Allons enfants de la patrie,
Le jour de gloire est arrivé !
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif
Let's go children of the fatherland,
The day of glory has arrived!

Jasko76
06-23-2007, 02:51 AM
Silly thread...

Ruy Horta
06-23-2007, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Phil_K:
As for Marseille, well he was someone who was employed to professionally kill people and took great pride in his job. That was (relatively) acceptable (by the standards of the day), but he was also extremely fortunate to have lived as long as he did, and unlike most victims of WW2, at least he had a degree of control over his fate. So you'll excuse me if I don't feel the need to cry crocodile tears over his death.


I'm not crying over Marseilles, because I am not one to worship heroes.

Hell, I don't even think that being efficient at warfare automatically translates to being an hero.

But are you as objective when discussing a grunt getting killed in today's modern wars by a car bomb?!

If you say yes, you'll pass my grade, if you say no you are little more than a hypocrit.

Phil_K
06-23-2007, 04:38 PM
Well, I wouldn't get upset if someone else made a joke.

But you are asking the wrong person the wrong question. You should be asking those people who are upset about Marseille's death if they would equally object to a joke about, for example, the death of Leonidas at the hands of the Persians. Or the death of anyone at any time in the past.

At what point does history stop being a sensitive subject?

Ruy Horta
06-24-2007, 07:48 AM
Unlike some in this thread I didn't really object to the original remark. I thought it to be a little tasteless, but nothing really offensive. That's the thing with humor, not everyone will share it.

Would you have made the same type of joke when discussing an Allied airman?

Marseille may have served his country as a soldier, but that doesn't make him less of a victim of WW2. Not the same type of victim as died in Nazi concentration camps, but a victim non-the-less.

Even fighting for a wrong cause doesn't mean a soldier isn't worthy of at least a modicum of respect. I'd say that sticks to all sides and over all ages...

===============================================

You do have a point in terms of sensitivity, but to answer your question.

Last week I saw a BBC documentary on Hard Rock.

At one point they described how a very drunk Ozzy Osbourne, dressed in a dress, releaved himself against a wall - that happened to be part of The Alamo. Well, I found that pretty hilarious, however few Texans nor most Americans will share that sentiment.

That little war predates the second world war by a century, caused far fewer casualties and is even questionable in terms of cause. But it can still raise a lot of emotions. It is beside this thread nor is it my intention to argue if these strong (Patriotic / Nationalistic) emotions are misplaced or not.

Phil_K
06-24-2007, 08:28 AM
You obviously missed my comment on Douglas Bader.

Yeah, I think that there is an index of offensiveness that is linked to:

1. Distance in the past
2. Likelihood of living relatives being upset
3. Perceived "goodness" or "badness" of subject of joke.
4. Actual funniness of joke
5. Whether or not subject shares your nationality or ethnic group.

HuninMunin
06-24-2007, 10:06 AM
See, in one sentence:
Death is not funny.

Phil_K
06-24-2007, 10:25 AM
Well, Woody Allen would disagree with that for a start....

HuninMunin
06-24-2007, 03:04 PM
So?

Sillius_Sodus
06-24-2007, 03:24 PM
According to Edward Sims' "The Greatest Aces" Marseille did land on an autobahn. On the day he died he was returning from a sortie when the engine on his 109 began to smoke. He was still behind British lines so he stayed with the aircraft until he was over friendly territory before he baled out. According to witnesses he got out ok but his parachute did not open.

Good hunting,
Sillius_Sodus

RSS-Martin
06-24-2007, 04:09 PM
For those who are interested there is a movie from the 50ties, the German titel is "Der Stern von Afrika" in English the titel would be "The Star of Africa". This film sticks fairly close to the facts of Marseilles flying carrier.
It is a bit old fashion but still a good watch!