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J_Weaver
06-25-2006, 01:23 PM
I've been playing IL-2 since day one. However, I'm really just begining to play full real. One thing really bothers me. Now I have no real flying experience, but many (most) of the aircraft seem terrible unstable on the yaw axis. To me anythign beyond the slightest tought makes the nose sling wildly. I certainly can't stomp the rudder like you have in many of the pilot account. Also, is the tendancy to suddenly snap roll(i.e. P-51) realistic.

Any help or advice would be great!

J_Weaver
06-25-2006, 01:23 PM
I've been playing IL-2 since day one. However, I'm really just begining to play full real. One thing really bothers me. Now I have no real flying experience, but many (most) of the aircraft seem terrible unstable on the yaw axis. To me anythign beyond the slightest tought makes the nose sling wildly. I certainly can't stomp the rudder like you have in many of the pilot account. Also, is the tendancy to suddenly snap roll(i.e. P-51) realistic.

Any help or advice would be great!

danjama
06-25-2006, 01:33 PM
what version of game you on?

what joystick you have?

what are your settings in js config?

how much filtering do u use, if any?

which planes is it worst in? which not so bad?

J_Weaver
06-25-2006, 01:48 PM
4.04

Saitek X-45

I'm using Oleg's stick setting that a floating around here somewhere.

I don't think i'm using any filtering. Default might be a better answer, as I haven't touched it.

I need to do some more testing on this part, but off the top of my head I can say Corsair and P-51D are hand to handle. However, I find that the B model handles better. I also find the A-20 to be very solid.

danjama
06-25-2006, 02:45 PM
Wow, You shouldnt be having wobble issues with Oleg's settings. Would you post me a track of you performing maneuvers in a P51D, a F4U-C, a P47, a SpitfireMk5 or 9, and a Hurricane? Also tracks of them firing?

Posting tracks will help us to determine whether you have extra wobbles on what everyone else had during 4.04...

J_Weaver
06-25-2006, 03:06 PM
Thanks for the help. To be honest, I think most of my trouble is me just not being used to things. I went back and added a bit more filtering and some deadzone to the yaw axis and that seemed like it really helped. Basically I think my setting were too sensitive. Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Jasko76
06-25-2006, 03:11 PM
I guess it's time for me to try Oleg's settings... Where can I get them? Thanks.

berg417448
06-25-2006, 03:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jasko76:
I guess it's time for me to try Oleg's settings... Where can I get them? Thanks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I saved them in a file a while back:

Oleg Maddox:
Roll: 1 3 6 12 21 32 44 61 81 100
Pitch: 1 4 8 15 24 33 44 60 77 100
Yaw: 0 10 19 32 43 54 63 74 86 100

danjama
06-25-2006, 03:18 PM
I use Browns settings at the moment, i love them!!!!

Glad to see you sorted it, the controls can be really sensitive until you get it just right!

Jasko76
06-25-2006, 03:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by berg417448:

I saved them in a file a while back:

Oleg Maddox:
Roll: 1 3 6 12 21 32 44 61 81 100
Pitch: 1 4 8 15 24 33 44 60 77 100
Yaw: 0 10 19 32 43 54 63 74 86 100 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you!

What about filters?

FritzGryphon
06-25-2006, 03:32 PM
No filtering.

J_Weaver
06-25-2006, 03:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
I use Browns settings at the moment, i love them!!!!

Glad to see you sorted it, the controls can be really sensitive until you get it just right! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could you post those? I'd like to give them a try.

berg417448
06-25-2006, 03:41 PM
Capt Brown€s

Pitch 0, 1, 3, 7, 9, 14, 18, 23, 27, 33
Roll 0, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 10, 12, 17
Yaw 0, 0, 1, 2, 5, 6, 8, 11, 14, 16

Jezzadog
06-25-2006, 07:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by berg417448:
Capt Brown€s

Pitch 0, 1, 3, 7, 9, 14, 18, 23, 27, 33
Roll 0, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 10, 12, 17
Yaw 0, 0, 1, 2, 5, 6, 8, 11, 14, 16 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I guess it's alright to use Capt Brown's settings - as long as you're not particular about being able to take off in a single engine fighter unless the runway is about 1 km wide, or losing 500 m in an aileron roll (roll too slow and unable to keep nose up with rudder at 90/270 deg point), fly effective air combat, and takeoff and land at a speed below 190 (or so) kph.

Or is it just me?

MadRuski
06-25-2006, 07:55 PM
are the Oleg settings only for HOTAS?..cause i got a Cyborg Evo

WWMaxGunz
06-25-2006, 08:16 PM
If you don't keep your flight coordinated then you will have problems no matter what settings.
I'm not always so good and I can tell when "somethings wrong". A simple check reveals the
malf is right behind the keyboard.

Maybe half the time it begins with leaning some % of arm weight on the stick. Hard not to
when thumbing hats and all while watching out the window... very hard as being 'over the hill'
much at all is like being young and beer buzzed as far as reflexes and coordination. You
start out feeling fine and then start noticing things like, hey I @#$&-ed that up, and that,
and that....

berg417448
06-25-2006, 08:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MadRuski:
are the Oleg settings only for HOTAS?..cause i got a Cyborg Evo </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It appears he was using an Saitek X-45:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/309109534

danjama
06-26-2006, 09:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jezzadog:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by berg417448:
Capt Brown€s

Pitch 0, 1, 3, 7, 9, 14, 18, 23, 27, 33
Roll 0, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 10, 12, 17
Yaw 0, 0, 1, 2, 5, 6, 8, 11, 14, 16 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I guess it's alright to use Capt Brown's settings - as long as you're not particular about being able to take off in a single engine fighter unless the runway is about 1 km wide, or losing 500 m in an aileron roll (roll too slow and unable to keep nose up with rudder at 90/270 deg point), fly effective air combat, and takeoff and land at a speed below 190 (or so) kph.

Or is it just me? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've no idea, i only use his Pitch settings. I have my own aileron and rudder settings. But i imagine you're right if all 3 were to be used....

Chuck_Older
06-26-2006, 10:02 AM
Again, all this falls down to personal interpretation

If the nose yaws a little when the rudder is snapped back to center, some folks might find that perfectly expected, while others feel it should self-center right away

I had a rather heated discussion with somebody about this once, and as far as I could tell, we were describing the same phenomena in different terms

"Stomping" the rudder in a high-horsepower fighter is all relative. The forces are going to be greater than that of a trainer, for example. The spiral vortex created by the prop is going to act on the vertical tail as well, and the high angle of attack side of the prop is going to be 'fighting' with the low angle of attack side. It's an airfoil after all. The forces the prop makes are going to get transferred right through the gearing to the engine to the mounts to the airframe. What all this means is that you can't make the nose dance back and forth as crisply as you may expect it to. Real warbird pilots report the rudder pedal effort to be 5-10 times greater than a military training aircraft from the same time, or a personal pleasure aircraft

The P-51 has a well documented real-life snap roll.

WWMaxGunz
06-26-2006, 01:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Again, all this falls down to personal interpretation

The P-51 has a well documented real-life snap roll. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I remember 1st time flying P-51 with AEP and letting myself get too slow on a rising half
loop and... BAM! I was upside down and halfway back up then stable as I had let go of the
stick. These things are (supposed to be) not canned like the old days, they are consequences
of the flow of the FM engine and data of the plane and yeah, I was impressed as I already
knew about the characteristic just hadn't been looking for it.

I don't have FFB so I know I don't get feel of changes in control forces. It makes it
harder than in real to fly to the edge. I have to watch speed and other conditions and
know from practice when I am getting there and not back off. In older sims it was easier
to do that. Achieving best speed or climb was also a simple formula of maybe 3 things
you do and viola check your speed and that's it... how can a table get it wrong? Hehe.
The table gets it wrong because it is driven by so few conditions you can robot right
to the edge and get the exact number. IRL the test pilots could get a bit more without
having the plane polished and rodded just like a better car driver will get better gas
mileage than your average "I push the pedal and it goes" car driver.

I see that in the sim. I've read posts by a real pilot here that Yak-3 cannot be flown
coordinated and yet when I try, and pay attention, the ball stays centered just fine.

That's why I take so many player tests with the salt of skepticism. Wobbles from PIO
are not bugs. Wobbles from incorrectly written config by the game code are. Sliders can
be set by text editor and how many numbers per line seen clearly. That is where I have
seen and fixed the error, made a backup and I use that, things are fine. Perhaps some
patch will remedy the config write-out, it is only dropping a zero at the end of one
line.

triggerhappyfin
06-26-2006, 06:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Weaver:
I've been playing IL-2 since day one. However, I'm really just begining to play full real. One thing really bothers me. Now I have no real flying experience, but many (most) of the aircraft seem terrible unstable on the yaw axis. To me anythign beyond the slightest tought makes the nose sling wildly. I certainly can't stomp the rudder like you have in many of the pilot account. Also, is the tendancy to suddenly snap roll(i.e. P-51) realistic.

Any help or advice would be great! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you checked the control panel?
Is X-axis really centered? I got the same problem all of a sudden and the drivers dont let me calibtate the darned thing..supposed to be automatic http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif Looking over at Saitek forums I saw a lot of ppl having centering issues and the tricks recommended by Saitek ppl dont seem to fix the problem http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Several postings over there that promises guys that they will take a serious look at it... and then total silence http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif.
I´ve had a X-36 for years and been able to recalibtate it to my great joy. But now with my new x-45 I´m not able to do that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif Makes me no happy customer http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

There are even new drivers over there and a brand new SST...links and all that dont work http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Things like that made a satisfied customer angry and sad at the state of affairs. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

Thank god we have third part help to get. I´ve used DXTweak2 to regain centre on x-axis.

If you dont have it, google for it and you´ll find it.

WTE_Galway
06-26-2006, 07:08 PM
i tried setting everything to a 100 for a while


real deja vu experience .. it was like flying the original Il2 again, hair trigger stalls and flat spins all over the place .. super responsive though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

PrivHalvor
06-27-2006, 07:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by berg417448:
Capt Brown€s

Pitch 0, 1, 3, 7, 9, 14, 18, 23, 27, 33
Roll 0, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 10, 12, 17
Yaw 0, 0, 1, 2, 5, 6, 8, 11, 14, 16 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I also use this settings (and enjoy them)
BUT ! There is no way I can take off from the airfield becuse the plane moves violently to the left.The rudders arent working at all. Are rest of you able ? I have modified with more sensitivnes and are now able to take off from the ground.
Have someone experienced the same ?

Jezzadog
06-27-2006, 08:22 AM
PrivHalvor you are correct. These settings are unrealistic. They severely limit elevator, aileron and rudder control authority (to 33%, 17% and 16% respectively).

They are probably quite usable in a small part of the flight envelope but not across the full flight regime; and are particularly limiting at low airspeed.

Some sample figures for the BF 109G-2 (from very limited flight tests):

Max roll rate at 350 kph 1000m: 35 deg/sec. Well below that expected for a fighter type aircraft. The rate of roll is so slow that instead of performing a quick aileron roll, you perform a (very slow) slow roll. During the roll you cannot keep the nose from dropping at the 90 deg & 270 deg 'sectors' because the rudder is virtually ineffective. Result: large altitude drop of about 500 m during a single 360 deg roll.

Pitch rate about 12 deg/sec for same conditions. (Ball park figure, bit hard to judge accurately). Slower than would be expected, but usable.

Taxy/Takeoff. Unless you are lined up for takeoff you will find it difficult to turn onto the runway from a taxyway. Ground handling poor. Inadequate rudder authority to arrest, let alone correct swing on takeoff. If you do manage to cope (without losing the landing gear) you cannot lift off below 190 kph, well above Vs for the 109.

Stalling. You cannot reach the 1g stall (clean) because you simply run out of elevator authority at 190 kph. Lack of control power limits achievable lift and becomes the stall determinent rather than (simulation) of the classic nose and/or wing drop due flow breakaway at high angle of attack.

Landing: need to keep airspeed at least 30 kph faster than normal. You cannot generate positive pitch rate below about 190 - 200 kph, and once you get below 190 kph you cannot prevent the nose from dropping. Ailerons are sluggish on approach and rudders virtually ineffective.

PM me if you'd like more information.