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airjunkie
01-17-2006, 10:31 AM
Looking for joystick after getting a ahort in mine. What's the best? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

crazyivan1970
01-17-2006, 10:32 AM
MS FFB2 - unfortuantely not in production anymore, but could be found on e-bay http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

airjunkie
01-17-2006, 10:39 AM
Two busted Sidewinders 2's with same short. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Arms1
01-17-2006, 10:41 AM
you might want to read this

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ch_products_saitek_x52_review/

i just ordered the ch pedals and fighterstick to complement my x52 throttle now that my ffb2 has gone kaput.

Chuck_Older
01-17-2006, 10:42 AM
The best?

Thrustmaster FCS mark I. I still had mine up until last month, and I could not bring myself to put a speed adjustable game card in my Win XP PC

But that stick was the best ever, period. Tough as nails, nice long throw, sensible grip, hat switch, four buttons, wide base that didn't move. If they made a USB one, I'd be using it

In the realm of non-12 year old hardware, I love my Saitek X-45. Some folks say it's flimsy, but I've had mine since AEP came out and it's seen hundreds of hours of use with no trouble. The programming software is counter-intuitive, but the stick is nice as is the throttle

Some folks don't like the stick, they say it's too big, or too small...I don't know what they are talking about personally

TooCooL34
01-17-2006, 10:48 AM
For IL-2 series, MSFFB2, period.

AustinPowers_
01-17-2006, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:

In the realm of non-12 year old hardware, I love my Saitek X-45. Some folks say it's flimsy, but I've had mine since AEP came out and it's seen hundreds of hours of use with no trouble. The programming software is counter-intuitive, but the stick is nice as is the throttle

Some folks don't like the stick, they say it's too big, or too small...I don't know what they are talking about personally

Hated my X-45 when I first got it, after having MS sidewinder pro for 2 years.

Nice throttle on the X-45, stick isn't overly impressive... but it has grown on me

JG5_UnKle
01-17-2006, 10:52 AM
pfft Cougar - be sure, new best cheatstick http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

horseback
01-17-2006, 10:53 AM
I call mine "Clyde."

Seriously, I had a quite serviceable (non Force Feedback) Sidewinder Pro Precision 2 that I dropped like a hot potato once I got my hands on a CH Combatstick. However, keep in mind the CH Products' sticks lack a rudder axis: you will also need to get CH Pro Pedals(hardly a handicap).

These are easily the last controllers you'll need though. They last forever, the Support people at CH are very good (and they really want to help, unlike some 'support staff' <cough!>-my company's IT-<cough!> you'll find out there, and the software is easy to use.

A couple of my nephews are already trying to kiss up to me & elbow my son (who got the Sidewinder) aside in hopes of inheriting my HOTAS rig...

cheers

horseback

WOLFMondo
01-17-2006, 10:53 AM
CH Fighter stick.

Low_Flyer_MkII
01-17-2006, 10:55 AM
Saitek X-45.

T_O_A_D
01-17-2006, 11:10 AM
X-45 + MFF2 + CH pedals combo is pretty dang good. I fly with my wingman and he has a $1000.00+ Courgar setup, that he is always fiddling with http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif While I just fly, and shoot stuff. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

slkcrab
01-17-2006, 11:45 AM
Gotta give a plug for CH products. Got the CH FighterStick for Christmas. Took a little getting used to because the handle is huge (even though my hands are big) but I wouldn't trade it for anything.

My previous stick was a MS Sidewinder Precision2. Nothing wrong with that one either except I don't like the twist grip style of stick.

FighterStick coupled with my CH ProPedals and CH Throttle Quadrant for IL2 or my Pro Throttle when I wanna fly Lockon, makes for an excellent flying experience.

Visit http://www.ch-hanger.com for info, support and profiles.

TheGozr
01-17-2006, 12:07 PM
CH's the rest are toys. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Grue_
01-17-2006, 01:24 PM
CH FighterStick USB http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Get the throttle and pedals as well, it will save you postage when you buy them later.

Markku38
01-17-2006, 02:27 PM
CH Fighterstick

and pedals & throttle... CH Products http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I have MS FFB2 in closet - buy therefore CH because it's have "little" more buttons http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

3.JG51_BigBear
01-17-2006, 02:55 PM
CH makes the best products but I'm a huge fan of the Saitek X52 myself (mostly because its cheaper). Can program practically every function of the game to a button on the stick and the stick and throttle are very comfortable. I like the action on the stick and I prefer the twist rudder to the rocker switch on the X45.

Hristo_
01-17-2006, 02:58 PM
CH fighterstick

Sokol__1
01-17-2006, 03:14 PM
Thrustmaster FCS mark I. I still had mine up until last month, and I could not bring myself to put a speed adjustable game card in my Win XP PC

Chuck_Older

Update our "precious".
Buy a cheap noname USB stick, whit 2 axis, 4 buttons and 8 way HAT, remove his circuit PCB, weld the original wirings of pots, HAT and buttons of the FCS in the appropriate points, and vo*la, a new FCS USB. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I have a old TopGun (the poor cousin of FCS), that first I mod to be a "CH Fligstick" gameporte (Coumpound buttons diode matrix), and now in one "USB TopGun". He doesn't need specific drivers under WinXP.

I consider the design of B8 grip very appropriate for WWII sims. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

SP!

Sokol1

msalama
01-17-2006, 03:21 PM
Dunno... I just got a Sidewinder Precision Pro 2 from a squadmate, and it feels pretty good. Still testing it, though...

Holycannoli
01-17-2006, 03:44 PM
Gotta give a plug for CH products. Got the CH FighterStick for Christmas. Took a little getting used to because the handle is huge (even though my hands are big) but I wouldn't trade it for anything.

I got my CH fighterstick with pro throttle (I fly Lock ON too at times)a few months ago and pro pedals and I totally love them. The stick is definitely bigger than my old Thrustmaster Top Gun Force Feedback but it's so much better quality.

A few things I had to get used to: most obvious problem was going from twisty stick rudder to pedals. I still find myself wanting to twist my stick after months. The Thrustmaster stick and throttle were also attached (could be separated too) and that made it easier for me to keep stable.

The one GREAT thing about the CH fighterstick: It has trim dials! I rarely use ingame trim settings anymore, I just use the dials. Does anyone else with a CH fighterstick use those dials?

Chuck_Older
01-17-2006, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by Sokol__1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Thrustmaster FCS mark I. I still had mine up until last month, and I could not bring myself to put a speed adjustable game card in my Win XP PC

Chuck_Older

Update our "precious".
Buy a cheap noname USB stick, whit 2 axis, 4 buttons and 8 way HAT, remove his circuit PCB, weld the original wirings of pots, HAT and buttons of the FCS in the appropriate points, and vo*la, a new FCS USB. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I have a old TopGun (the poor cousin of FCS), that first I mod to be a "CH Fligstick" gameporte (Coumpound buttons diode matrix), and now in one "USB TopGun". He doesn't need specific drivers under WinXP.

I consider the design of B8 grip very appropriate for WWII sims. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

SP!

Sokol1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Alas, my precious mark I went to the trash man http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

The grip was simply great, and for good reason. I bought the stick for Aces of the Pacific, and for some reason, I really liked the Corsair after I got the mark I http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Chuck_Older
01-17-2006, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by TheGozr:
CH's the rest are toys. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Oh, I don't know. I haven't done an exhaustive search for the best flight sim HOTAS or stick made commercially, but I do know from my sim racing days that these guys:

http://www.thomas-superwheel.com/

come as quite a shock to the "momo is best" crowd. I have no doubt that a specialty flight sim control manufacturer is out there with extremely high quality equipment...for a price

nakamura_kenji
01-17-2006, 05:31 PM
I cheap saitek cyborg gold usb work me ^_^ fit hand nice adjustable,acurate,work left hand also

Bearcat99
01-17-2006, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by T_O_A_D:
X-45 + MFF2 + CH pedals combo is pretty dang good. I fly with my wingman and he has a $1000.00+ Courgar setup, that he is always fiddling with http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif While I just fly, and shoot stuff. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

yeah what he said.......

But for your purposes I would say that all depends on what you want and how much money you have... From what I hear the CH stuff is the best... although my combo rocks for me... and I have a spare MS in the closet... brand spanking new.. so Ill be using one of those for some time. For lower end sticks.. I would say Saitek... stay away from Logitech... they make nice mice, decent headpones and speakers but their joysticks bite. Cougar? I refuse to pay over $200 for a stick that I will have to replace pots in in a year.... My squadmate Flyby has one.. and he has alredy had to fix it. No thanks. He did say that the local Comp USA in his area had them onsale for $175... @ a week ago.... Try here (http://store.yahoo.com/saitekusa/recprod.html).

Liberator_13th
01-17-2006, 08:09 PM
CH Products

Most durable... Lotsa buttons, trim wheels, pro pedals(with pressure sensitive toe brakes), yokes, throttles, etc...

And the stick is modeled after a real F-16 stick.
http://www.c74.net/xplane/wx_elements/ch_elements/ch_FS_full.jpg

Real Thing:
http://www.meriweather.com/16/right/stick.jpg

P.S. I have the older CH Combatstick (very similar but I think with less buttons), and I'm VERY impressed. I haven't tried the better CH fighterstick but I'm satisfied enough with this one!!!

WOLFMondo
01-18-2006, 12:49 AM
The only thing I don't like about the CH fighter stick is the pinky switch. Too sensitive and large.

WTE_Ibis
01-18-2006, 01:47 AM
I had X45 setup, good throttle, dreadfull stick.
Kept the throttle and now use it with a CH stick and rudder pedals and that is a great setup, I would have CH throttle but I like the rotories on the X45. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

madsarmy
01-18-2006, 02:06 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/tommybomb/controlsetup.jpg
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

rnzoli
01-18-2006, 06:16 AM
IMO all joysticks are way too short compared to the real thing (in ww2 warbirds, that's what I meant).

Furthermore, I am very disappointed with today's joysticks, because they are either
- out of production and out of hardware support, or
- unavailable with force feedback, or
- expensive like hell, or
- need frequent maintenance, or
- have a life-expectancy below 2 years.


Want proof? Can't name any joystick that someone does't have some worries or problems with. There's none, nil, zero. This shows the dire situation on the joystick market.

That's why I volunteered to build one, instead of buying a new one (and getting disappointed time and again). If it's going to be crappy anyway, at least it should be MY **** then http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Nigel_Woodman
01-18-2006, 06:21 AM
I don't know why anyone would want to fly without force feedback, and the MSFFB2 is without a doubt the best force feedback stick available. Too bad they don't make them anymore. I'd have CH products in a minute if they'd make force feedback, but until then, I'm sticking with my old Microsoft.

Along the way I've tried just about every model of Saitek (all good, but not better than MSFFB2),

Come on CH, make a force feedback stick.

rnzoli
01-18-2006, 06:46 AM
Come on CH, make a force feedback stick.

YEEESSSSS! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

Unfortunately, an accurate FFB stick is like the Holy Grail of the industry. For example, the fine shaking motion wears out traditional pots ~50 times faster, just to name the biggest challenge. But there's many more: more moving parts under force requires metal parts and ball bearings, this makes stick heavy and big, plus you need external power supply for the motors... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif If CH goes for an FFB, I bet it'll go into the 'expensive like hell' category, with very little niche market share.


There is a reason why Microsoft stopped producing its highly acclaimed FFB2 stick, and any manufacturer thinking about this, will have to find out what Microsoft did wrong.

gotha_g.IV
01-18-2006, 06:48 AM
IDK. I have a cheap Thrustmaster afterburner II.

And i'm an ACE! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Jabout
01-18-2006, 06:56 AM
I have the MS FFB2 & love it, but I want more buttons (I hate pecking at the keyboard).

Is the CH throttle the best, or should I consider the X-45 or X-52 throttle?

Thanks for any responses.

Choctaw111
01-18-2006, 07:22 AM
CH products are the BEST!!! I do not like touching my keyboard for anything and with all the buttons on the CH fighterstick and pro throttle I do not have to. I can assign 24 different commands to the Fighterstick and another 24 commands to the Pro Throttle plus rudder and brake controls to the pedals plus tons of programmable functions that I have not even messed with yet even after two years of using them. How many poeple use more the 48 commands while actually flying? And just think, you do not have to touch your keyboard or take your hands off the controls for anything! In a furball that is a very nice feature to have.

Jabout
01-18-2006, 07:43 AM
Thanks Choctaw11
~S~
CH Throttle it is.

Worf101
01-18-2006, 09:31 AM
I like to buy presents for MYSELF. I brought myself a Thrustmaster Cougar off the bay a couple of years ago. And while I loved it, hands down. Programming it can be a pain but I found some profiles that did everything I could ask that sucker to do without a problem. All metal, great heft, it was an early stick in the mid 9000's so quality control on it was great.

Had the throw weight of t 900 lbs gorilla though. Not a stick for the feint of heart. After a while though I began to realize it's shortcomings. Cheap pots, cheamp overstrong gimbals, centerplay out the ying yang etc...

With this in mind I saved my money, researched on the net, particularly Frugalworld.com and got all the lastest and greates mods for my kitty. I now have improved gimbals of machined aluminum. Halls effects sensors in both the throttle and the stick and replaced some plastic bits with milled aluminum. This has transformed what was once a good stick into a great stick.

Overpriced... sure... way too expensive... sure. But near as I can tell we only live once might as well go first class sometimes. And if I ever get skint I know I can sell my UberKitty on F.W. for more than I paid for it...

Worf101 99th Pursuit Squadron, 332nd V.F.G. "Spit Fire".

BelaLvgosi
01-18-2006, 11:01 AM
Got no reason to complain about my œber (original mod) Cougar, I got these gimbals after a kind offer from a frugal's forum member. Well, except still no x64 drivers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif.
Of course a œber 2/nxt would be better with no center "detent", but the original œber is simply a cougar that works as it should with no center play building up (original gimbals reinforced) plus roll bearings to make the action smoother.
CH's are more reliable out of the box and durable, but when compared to a moded cougar (or out of the box in the first week when everything is still tight :x) they are as much toys are every other stick, not to mention their limited throttle setup. If you get used to the thumb stick on the cougar (very smooth action with fully configurable acceleration for mouse emulation), there's no need for a track IR.

antifreeze
01-18-2006, 11:38 AM
Another vote (makes two so far) for the saitek cyborg gold. They don't make them anymore though, and the new version (the evo) isn't as good.

I use two cyborgs (one for aircraft control, the other for looking around); faultless for over three years. A bit sensitive for some peoples' taste apparently, but they suit me.

Jetbuff
01-18-2006, 12:19 PM
Best quality: CH products
Best value: X-45

codeseven7
01-18-2006, 12:36 PM
CH Products are excellent. Bought the Fighterstick to replace my old Logitech Strike Force 3D, used it awhile, works great, but it's missing something, FF!! I dont want to turn this into a FF or not thread, but for me, FF is a must. From stall shake to turbulance it adds so much to realism. My non FF Fighterstick felt dead and left me feeling disconnected from being in the cockpit, boring.

Unfortunately, the best stick maker doesn't do FF anymore "because it would cut the life of our products in half", bummer. The next best thing is the discontinued MSFF Sidewinder 2, available on e-bay. I'm with Madsarmy, #1) TrackIR 4, #2) MSFF Sidewinder 2, #3)CH Pro Pedals, #4) CH Throttle, now your ready to fly!

Pirschjaeger
01-18-2006, 12:54 PM
Ok, tonight I was at Media-Mart in Bamberg. Inspired by this thread, I decided to look at the jsticks.

I am very impressed with the X52. My hand fit inside and comfortably! It is ions ahead of the X45. To add, the stick has a z-axis. Woo hoo!

Anyways, jsut thought I´d give my first impression. When I buy my next stick, it will be the X52.

Note: This was not a paid advertisement,..... dammit! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Fritz

RevvinUK
01-18-2006, 02:26 PM
I love my CH setup, my current IL-2 profile consists of a Fighterstick, Pro Throttle, Throttle Quadrant, Flight Sim Yoke and Pro Pedals all in one downloadable profile.

I find the software easy to use yet powerful should you wish to take it further and it's constantly being updated by Bob Church. CH gear is well known for it's durability and quality as so it shouldbe with CH's 25 year history making industrial and aviation grade controls and switches.

codeseven7
01-18-2006, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by rnzoli:
IMO all joysticks are way too short compared to the real thing (in ww2 warbirds, that's what I meant).

Furthermore, I am very disappointed with today's joysticks, because they are either
- out of production and out of hardware support, or
- unavailable with force feedback, or
- expensive like hell, or
- need frequent maintenance, or
- have a life-expectancy below 2 years.


Want proof? Can't name any joystick that someone does't have some worries or problems with. There's none, nil, zero. This shows the dire situation on the joystick market.

That's why I volunteered to build one, instead of buying a new one (and getting disappointed time and again). If it's going to be crappy anyway, at least it should be MY **** then http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Rnzoli, did you build your own stick? How'd it turn out? I agree about 'wrist bending' joysticks vs. a WW2 cockpit flight control stick. I've experimented with lengthening the shaft of joysticks to better simulate the 'full throw' of a control stick. Still working on it but I do think it's a step in the right direction as far as realism.

Jetbuff
01-18-2006, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
I am very impressed with the X52. My hand fit inside and comfortably! It is ions ahead of the X45. To add, the stick has a z-axis. Woo hoo!
Funny you should say that. That's the one thing that I simply cannot overlook on the X-52. I simply abhor twist sticks. The X-45's rocker is a lot more intentional in its use - and no, I don't have gorilla hands.

rnzoli
01-19-2006, 04:43 AM
Originally posted by codeseven7:
Rnzoli, did you build your own stick? How'd it turn out? I agree about 'wrist bending' joysticks vs. a WW2 cockpit flight control stick. I've experimented with lengthening the shaft of joysticks to better simulate the 'full throw' of a control stick. Still working on it but I do think it's a step in the right direction as far as realism.

I took the elecronics and the grip handle from a useless and trash-bound Logitech FFB sticks, and built mechanics + pots for it from scratch. Instead of mounting it on the desktop, it is mounted on the edge of the table, with rotating point below the desktop level. I have to sit farther from the desk, but the stick handle is a little bit longer, and located symetrical for my left/right hand.

How did it turn out? Well, it looks total **** http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif (looks unprofessional, no casing, wires dangling etc.,) but works okay so far, much better than the original. Once I get a little time for paintwork, I will post some pics about it.

codeseven7
01-19-2006, 02:18 PM
Cool, thanks. It is amazing how just lengthening the shaft, even just a few inches, makes a big difference in the 'feel' of things. Just with the fact that you now have to get your elbow off that armrest and actually extend your arm in a dive is immersive. You go from a modern, high tech, wrist bending fighter jet feel, to the old WW2 cockpit, control stick feel.

Choctaw111
01-19-2006, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by Jetbuff:
Best quality: CH products
Best value: X-45

I didn't want to save a few bucks. I bought CH products because I wanted the best!

Holycannoli
01-19-2006, 04:34 PM
I spent $300 on a CH fighterstick, pro throttle and pro pedals. They were well worth the money. I haven't even had close to a problem with them yet, whereas my Thrustmaster Afterburner force feedback joystick broke after about a year.

I don't miss FF either. I thought I wouldn't be able to fly without it, and now I realize it's really not needed. It could be that every FF joystick feels different, but my Afterburner felt kind of arcade-ish with it's FF, if you know what I mean.

Slims2005
02-17-2006, 02:57 AM
Could you plz give me a link where i can order the ch pedals and the Saitek PS28 X52 Flight Control USB Joystick , well actually i found where i can buy the joystick but i didn`t find the pedals there. I had two loghitech joysticks i just hate em , the twist handle suxxx it breaks so easy i like lost it in 4 months so...

knightflyte
02-17-2006, 03:39 AM
http://www.provantage.com/ch~110CHPU.htm (http://www.provantage.com/ch%7E110CHPU.htm)


I bought my peddles there about nine months ago. Promised 3 day delivery.... had them in two.

Decent price too

OldMan____
02-17-2006, 03:50 AM
M$ stoped amking its sticks because of legal issues. It used dar different technologies on its FFB, and these were patented by another company that sued them. They decided tha was best to don´t make the stick anymore tahn to downgrade its quality by using more traditional technology. Also MS FFB2 dont use potentiometers on all axes (there are much more advanced sensors around, even your mouse have such sensors.

Jumoschwanz
02-17-2006, 04:16 AM
I have had a microsoft precision 2 since sometime in 2001, and it still works fine except for one button takes a little more force than when it was new. I liked it so much, that when ms said it was getting out of the stick buisness, I bought up four more new ones when stores were closing them out, and still have a few still new in boxes, along with a few more used ones I picked used.

They still all work fine. This is a great stick. The force feedback might offer a bit more immersion, but for a no-nonsense stick that just gets the job done as well as it can be done, the precision 2 is fantastic.

Since this sim came out in 2001 I have been using it with all install defaults! I have not ever had the alleged wobbles, have kicked everyone's a s s, and have not had any mechanical failures. The degree of control is very fine, there is no wasted motion, you move something on the stick and something on the screen moves exactly with it.

The hat-switch on it works the best with great ease and feel. I use the hat-switch and a base button with some control settings to pan my views, I do not use a mouse or Track IR, and it works so well I can kick any butt with it, Track IR is not neccessary with this stick!

If anyone wants my control setup and a track I made to show the absolute control I have with this stick over the plane and panning views and tracking targets under full-real settings let me know.....

Jumoschwanz

LT.INSTG8R
02-17-2006, 04:43 AM
Pretty happy with my X-52 moving from a Cyborg 3D it was huge improvment.To all the "Twist Haters" it has a lockout for the twist which works great and I will use when I get around to tracking down some rudder pedals.

willyvic
02-17-2006, 04:59 AM
MSFFB all the way. Have had mine for years now. The hat switch is gettin a little worn and loose but the rest of the stick is still kicking strong. I believe she will last another couple of years easy.

WV.

Codex1971
02-17-2006, 05:15 AM
X-52 Rules...

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a362/CodexAssassin/DSC01485.jpg

Slims2005
02-17-2006, 06:26 AM
I am defently getting a X-52 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) !!!!

ParaB
02-17-2006, 06:29 AM
MSFF2, 5+ years old and still works as perfectly as on the day I bought it. Never had to recallibrate it, never had ANY kind of problem with it. Best piece of hardware I ever bought.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

jimDG
02-17-2006, 06:48 AM
Saitek Cyborg EVO for me. Lots of buttons, adjustable, very customizable. Im planning on extending its length by 20cm, changing the spring, and bolting it to the middle of my "flight chair" (a short contol column, in a way), whenever I get the time, to see if it makes a difference to flying.

achtung2004
02-17-2006, 06:49 AM
Another vote for CH products.

I have stick, pedals, and pro-throttle and they are superb. I am even considering adding the throttle quadrant if I continue my new love of bombers.

Oh and another thing..... Track IR is a must have!

Bearcat99
02-17-2006, 07:02 AM
Originally posted by Jabout:
I have the MS FFB2 & love it, but I want more buttons (I hate pecking at the keyboard).
Is the CH throttle the best, or should I consider the X-45 or X-52 throttle?
Thanks for any responses.

AS stated above.. TOAD, ENK and myself and a few others use the X-45/MSFFB2/CH combo setup and it is great. The reason why I like the X-45 setup with the MSFFB2 as opposed to the X-52 setup is that the X-45 has a rudder rocker on the throttle... The last thing I need is another twist handle.... I dont use the one I have on my MSFFB2 now since I use pedals. The rudder rocker on the X-45 can be used as a switch.. I have flaps on mine.

Cribster
02-17-2006, 10:00 AM
I had a CH F16 flightstick for a long time but it didn't have a twist feature for games like Mech Warrior. I hated giving it up but I'm not a serious flight simmer and didn't want to go the stick/throttle/pedal route so I used the Saitek Cyborg Gold whcih is decent but not even close to the CH.

Then after buying a 5.1 headset from Medusa I was so impressed with the quality I went back a purchase this joystick which was just released last October.

http://www.medusa-usa.com/black-widow-flightstick-p-832.html

It is very reminiscent of the CH stick. It's super accurate and comfortable, has some kind of rubber coating, great button placement and resistance.

I paid $70 for mine which I thought was too inexpensive and I see they dropped the price to $45!

I haven't had it for long so I can't speak for it's longevity but I'm loving this stick, it's how I would have built one for myself.

knightflyte
02-17-2006, 10:04 AM
This just aint right.....I've been reading reviews and pilot testimonials, and it seems there's NO one perfect stick.

Cougars are expensive and 'somewhat' unreliable with the possability of faulty potentiometers.. (I don't wanna spend another 2 - 300.00 to make it just right) But it has 'trim knobs' on the Throttle body.

CH IS reliable and from all accounts I've read very accurate, BUT doesn't have trim dials on the throttle. I'd miss THEM terribly and that will probably affect my decision to not buy a CH HOTAS. I'm actually very surprised CH doesn't hane trim knobs on their throttle. Trimming aircraft is so much easier with them.... THUS making it a TRUE hands off throttle and stick setup.

Saitek X52 has all I need,(except FF) but some accounts say it's not much more accurate than my Saitek EVE force.


AND THEN...... none of them have FF. (I COULD live without it....but....)


I've got CH peddles with the EVO force and Saitek X45. It's kind of a sloppy setup, and would prefer an 'ALL IN ONE' solution.

I WISH stick manufacturers would read this thread and incorporate some of the ideas from us.

How many times do you read on this and other forums 'WHAT STICK YO BUY?'

People ARE buying sticks.... There IS a market for them.... and I feel money could be made by creating a good all in one solution.

Corsair_Fanatic
02-17-2006, 10:36 AM
I used an X36 for many years (originally had the gameport version, then got the USB one). It was replaced by a HOTAS Cougar not long after the cougar was introduced. I really like mine. Yes, there have been some QA concerns. I really wish TM had built the thing with HAL sensors to begin with. But I've been quite pleased with mine. The heft and feel is excellent. I got myself a set of CH Pro/Pedals (gamport) to go with it. I still need to rewire them to get the toebrakes functional. I wanted to get SIMPED rudders, but the budget just wasnt there at the time. I also plan to refit mine with HAL sensors and better gimbals at some point.

There are several companies offering aftermarket mod kits for the cougar or outright selling altered ones. Most of them are marketed for jet sims, tho. Like this one, for example (http://www.realsimulator.com/html/fssb.html). I like that there is an active mod community for it. Mainly because I appear to be constitutionally incapable of leaving anything "stock". I have alot of respect for anybody with the skills to make something the way they want it. Maybe once I win the lottery, I can afford to have my dream hardware setup made to my exacting specifications. Or maybe I'll just kitbash (http://users.bestweb.net/%7Ekcoyne/f100proj.htm) something (http://members.aol.com/wietlpachm/howto/newpics.htm) together. Who knows. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

StellarRat
02-17-2006, 11:56 AM
I can vouch for the CH setup. I have the Fighterstick, Throttle and Pedals. They all track very precisely and are built like brick sheathouses. I don't need to touch the keyboard for anything in IL2 while flying.

Stoyanov
02-17-2006, 01:59 PM
Here is what i use... the best twisty sticks for me are the good old M$.... Don't look the keyboard its an acient "turbo" in service from 1998, still working fine, but sounds like a typewriter http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The blue stuff holding my sticks on their places is a C4 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
http://www.vnvv.com/forum/files/my_setup_537.jpg

Viper2005_
02-17-2006, 02:06 PM
œ2Nxt modded Cougar.

slipBall
02-17-2006, 02:14 PM
CH Fighter USB, with added tensioning plate that I created. SlipBall ( I was only following orders )

Gold_Monkey
02-17-2006, 02:31 PM
I like my MSFFB2 so much that I even got one for my co-pilot.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a64/Brass_Monkey_/DSC05073.jpg

Codex1971
02-17-2006, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by Corsair_Fanatic:
I used an X36 for many years (originally had the gameport version, then got the USB one). It was replaced by a HOTAS Cougar not long after the cougar was introduced. I really like mine. Yes, there have been some QA concerns. I really wish TM had built the thing with HAL sensors to begin with. But I've been quite pleased with mine. The heft and feel is excellent. I got myself a set of CH Pro/Pedals (gamport) to go with it. I still need to rewire them to get the toebrakes functional. I wanted to get SIMPED rudders, but the budget just wasnt there at the time. I also plan to refit mine with HAL sensors and better gimbals at some point.

There are several companies offering aftermarket mod kits for the cougar or outright selling altered ones. Most of them are marketed for jet sims, tho. Like this one, for example (http://www.realsimulator.com/html/fssb.html). I like that there is an active mod community for it. Mainly because I appear to be constitutionally incapable of leaving anything "stock". I have alot of respect for anybody with the skills to make something the way they want it. Maybe once I win the lottery, I can afford to have my dream hardware setup made to my exacting specifications. Or maybe I'll just kitbash (http://users.bestweb.net/%7Ekcoyne/f100proj.htm) something (http://members.aol.com/wietlpachm/howto/newpics.htm) together. Who knows. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Just curious about the Cougar...has TM address the pot issues? Have they released updated cougars?

I had the $$$ ready to get one but I waited to see how the community took to it. It was the pot issue that stopped me from getting one in the end. The X-52 uses magnetic senors instead of pots which I find more reliable.

MadBadVlad
02-17-2006, 03:29 PM
Saitek X-52 and CH Pro Pedals here and I don't even envy the CH sticks. No need for the twisty stick if you get the pedals and the stick twist can be locked off so there are no erronous inputs.

If you make use of the vast array of programmable buttons, hats, sliders, mouse stick etc. etc. the whole show becomes fully hands off keyboard. Joystick is generally light but very responsive and has great centering. Various modes can be programmed for eg. fighter play, bombing or online

All in all I cannot complain, it does everything I require of it - and it looks damn pretty with all those blue LEDs too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Slims2005
02-20-2006, 12:27 AM
well guys i wanna buy a joystick pretty soon and i kindda wanna know what you recommend i buy the x-52 or the cougar http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WOODY01
02-20-2006, 01:46 AM
Wow, 4 pages of posts and no mention of the Thrustmaster WCS mk2 or FLCS? Am I the last one left? My WCS mk2 is pre windows 95! thats what...11-12 years old? I worked it out Ive prolly spent 2-4 hours abusing them everyday since then (FLCS has been replaced only because of the rubber bootie splitting from frantic breaking manouvers lol!) and they are still going so strong it is amazing, mind you, when I brought them I payed $500 NZ each for them, but at the time I thought its an invesment into a hobby (that has evolved into more of a passion now) that I will get good use out of. Now thats quality, yes there gameport, yes there only programable under dos systems (well you can get around this but I wont go into it), but to last 12 years with me hamfisting my way around the vertual sky I think is top stuff. And the ironic thing is I just got another off ebay...for $5, 1% of the original price I payed, now youve got to be happy with that (and this one actually HAS had very little use). Ill try and take some pics when I get home and show you all the condition of this very old, but fantastic HOTAS.

Lucius_Esox
02-20-2006, 04:23 AM
I brought an X52 when my FF2 died (I took it apart to replace a button and could never get the centering to work right again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif )

Personally I miss it bad. For knife fighting I even think the throttle where it is on the FF2 is superior, it's all there right in the centre of your own axis so to speak.

I've owned CH in the past and have got a set of their pedals still, beautifully accurate and very well made.

I think the FF2 was "brilliant" for this game/sim almost as much by accident as design.

The very accurate SHORT throw stick is the best part though. I think the other fire buttons could be better placed (the one's on the stick) and a better rest for your hand, and it would be perfect!!