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XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 10:21 PM
~S~

OK, I understand SOME of the WEP things, but I'd like to know a bit more.

I understand that MW-50 helps keep my engine cool and prevent detonation when over 110% throtle. I think water injection is the same.

So, if I damage my 109G-10's engine by not useing MW-50, then how the **** does a 109E-4 or G-2 go to 110% without a big boom!?!

I understand that GM-1 somehow helps high-alt performance. but how does it actually work? And why can't I use it below 6500 meters, i know it blows the engine but why?

And:
What does "Forsas" [Russian fighters] and "Erhote Notlisdung" [German 190's] mean and what do they do?!?!

Also, how should they be used?

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 10:21 PM
~S~

OK, I understand SOME of the WEP things, but I'd like to know a bit more.

I understand that MW-50 helps keep my engine cool and prevent detonation when over 110% throtle. I think water injection is the same.

So, if I damage my 109G-10's engine by not useing MW-50, then how the **** does a 109E-4 or G-2 go to 110% without a big boom!?!

I understand that GM-1 somehow helps high-alt performance. but how does it actually work? And why can't I use it below 6500 meters, i know it blows the engine but why?

And:
What does "Forsas" [Russian fighters] and "Erhote Notlisdung" [German 190's] mean and what do they do?!?!

Also, how should they be used?

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 10:39 PM
anybody?

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 10:42 PM
For MW-50 (water-methanol injeciton) do not enable it if you are running power over 100%.. or you will damage your engine. Instead enable it below 100%, then you can safely increase throttle past 100% and off your Boost it is... In real life you could use it for 10 mins without engine beeing damaged, but in FB it seems to work 2-3 mins, until it seriously overheats the engine..

GM-1 should work only above 6500 m.. enabling it below this can damage the engine (that is why one can't enable it below this height?)

Forsas is the russian word for Water (methanol) injection, its kinda like you have in for example P-47..you can use it for quite a time to ensure maximum speed..

Erh√¬∂hte Notleistung is similar to MW-50, giving similar boost in horse powers.. however you can enable it with throttle over 100% safely, and it can be used up to 20 mins in FW-190 series without overheating.

Someone can descripe the tecnical crap better /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

____________________________________



Official Sig:



<center>http://koti.mbnet.fi/vipez/shots/Vipez4.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 10:44 PM
darn vipez, technical crap is EXACTLY what I wanted!

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 10:47 PM
MW50 is not to keep your engine cool, it enjects methanol and other chemicals into the mixture to make it perform better, but seriously tears up your engine if you use it for too long. Think of it as Nitrous Oxide for Airplanes.

http://www.geocities.com/bs87cr/190sig.txt

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:07 PM
BS87 wrote:
- MW50 is not to keep your engine cool, it enjects
- methanol and other chemicals into the mixture to
- make it perform better, but seriously tears up your
- engine if you use it for too long. Think of it as
- Nitrous Oxide for Airplanes.


ummm, Nitrous Oxide for airplanes is called GM-1...

And MW-50 only injects water and Methanol [alcohol]!!!

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 11:39 PM
where's the tech-specs?

LOL, SOMEBODY out there has to have all the numbers!?!

michapma
08-28-2003, 09:27 AM
Well I still need to fill in this section so I am going to go look for the info.

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

‚ =69.GIAP=Chap‚

69.GIAP (http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/giap/)</p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 12:34 PM
Here is a discussion we had in ORR. If you search for "MW50", there was another good discussion about the same time, in the same forum.

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view.asp?name=Olegmaddoxreadyroom&id=zvflr

<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_potter_anim.gif (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

michapma
08-28-2003, 01:27 PM
Should be a good start.

-Mike

http://w1.1861.telia.com/~u186104874/db605.htm

A note on MW-50.

MW-50 (water-methanol 50/50) was injected into the air-intake and served as an anti-detonant allowing higher boost to be used below normal rated altitude. The evaporating water also cooling the charge-air thus increasing the weight of the charge. Limited by the performance of the supercharger the MW-50 induced max. output began declining 1.5-2 km. below normal rated altitude until it became impotent at and above the normal rated altitude (compare for example DB 605A-1 and AM). Max. continous use: 5-10 minutes. Penalties: drasticly shortens flight endurance and spark-plug life, added weight of MW-50 tank and piping. Most Me 109 sub-types from 1944/45 were equiped to utilise MW-50.

A note on GM-1.

Another means of improving the performance was GM-1 (G√¬∂ring Mischung 1). In short the system worked by injecting nitrous oxide into the supercharger above normal rated altitude of the engine. The nitrous oxide serving as an oxygen carrier to improve the output at high altitude (pure oxygen prooving too volatile). The effect was phenomenal, raising output 25-30 % instantly. GM-1 was used by dedicated high altitude formations from 1941 onwards. Excessive bulk and weight were major penalities though, and additional supercharging was generally seen to be more efficient.



<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

‚ =69.GIAP=Chap‚

69.GIAP (http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/giap/)</p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

michapma
08-28-2003, 01:30 PM
Vipez- wrote:
- Forsas is the russian word for Water (methanol) injection

Forsazh is a Russian word meaning "boost" or "power augmentation", I think it is also used for "afterburner". I only know because I just spent some time looking around the Net for it. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

‚ =69.GIAP=Chap‚

69.GIAP (http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/giap/)</p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 02:42 PM
I was wondering how the WEP would work on the P51D. The P51 pilot could push the throttle through a thread (or something like that) to give an extra boost of power (for about ten minutes at the time.) I wonder how this will be modelled in FB- will we just get 110% power, or will we be able to press a key to push the engine a little bit further? The boost on the FW190D9 1945 is very impressive. By using the WEP the engine seems to go into overdrive, creating what is, IMO, one of the best sounds in the game.

To be able to fare well,
To avoid the frustration of misfortune,
That, in this world, is happiness.
-Euripides' Electra

michapma
08-28-2003, 03:00 PM
This is the same way the P-39 works. The thread is there to let the mechanics know that the engine will need special attention. Very probably the Mustang will get the usual 101&ndash;110% for its normal WEP. What will be critical is how much extra power you get in that range. The limiting factor of engine output is apparently the stresses that the alloy metal engines could take. They couldn't run at high temperatures and manifold pressures for too long. The water-methanol injections cooled the engines to allow higher pressures (if I've got that right), but I have the feeling these pressures were MUCH higher than the normal extra WEP.

Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

‚ =69.GIAP=Chap‚

69.GIAP (http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/giap/)</p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

michapma
08-29-2003, 09:09 AM
VOL_Jon, are these the kinds of answers you were looking for?

Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

‚ =69.GIAP=Chap‚

69.GIAP (http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/giap/)</p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 06:48 PM
In Woodbine Red Leader (Book by p-51 ace) he claims wep had a ten minute limit on the p-51, then engine damage.

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 10:14 PM
Yep, thanks!