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View Full Version : ANY bomb damage to a ship should make smoke.



Tater-SW-
11-13-2004, 10:07 AM
A suggestion that if a ship is hit by a bomb, it smokes, regardless what version of the damaged ship model is displayed.

Right now many seem to smoke only right before they sink.

tater

Stiglr
11-13-2004, 11:30 AM
No it shouldn't.

A near miss could cause waterline damage or hull breaches.... those don't smoke.

Tater-SW-
11-13-2004, 12:05 PM
If it is HIT, i think nearmiss damage is pretty small in PF (even if it was large in RL).

I only mean bomb touches hull. Right now, you can shack a CV with a 1000lb bomb on the flight deck, and no smoke.

Ships needs to look hit (smoke) more than they do now (easy to smoke, hard to kill---many pilots RTBed assuming destruction of their target due to fires, and the fires later were controlled and off they went.

Perhaps add a single "gun" to each ship that doesn't fire, and has a huge hit box easy to hit, and very easy to destroy, a small smoke plume from this point. Get fancier, and add a few.

tater

Daiichidoku
11-13-2004, 12:20 PM
the other day i wanted to kill an aircraft carrier in a df server

had the 2x 1000lb 1x 200lb bombload

bomb delay was max, 10 seconds

came right along her beam, perfect dive bomb run...saw the hit as a tiny grey puff, near the middle of the ac

still watching after the 10 seconds had elapsed...the bomb exploded...but it did NOT damage the ac

only a huge white cloud like a water hit...seems to me the bomb had travelled through the ac into the water, making any sort of bomb delay useless for anti ship

anyone else notice this yet?

A.K.Davis
11-13-2004, 12:36 PM
Bombs with delay set have NEVER worked in Il-2 against ships. You have to use delay of 0. Unrealistic, but an engine limitation apparently.

effte
11-14-2004, 05:40 AM
Just like everything that's not a priority is an 'engine limitation'. And people are still buying that line... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Obi_Kwiet
11-14-2004, 03:04 PM
In other words if they were to fix that, it would have costed 2 months of codeing work. So, you have that tiney bug fixed, or in its place produce 10 planes and 3 maps. They chose the latter. That's what they mean by an engine limitation.

3.JG51_BigBear
11-14-2004, 03:18 PM
If that is really what limitation of the engine means, then I as a consumer (who has purchased every Il2 version thus far), would much rather see this issue, and many other like it, fixed before more airplanes, maps, objects, etc. are added. What we have now is a great spectrum of features and aircraft that all sorta work. If their problems are actual limitations of the game's engine that's cool, there's nothing to be done, but if it is true that time has been taken away from fixing something as important as this to implement the 109Z, then that makes me stop and wonder what 1C is going for at this point.

This is sorta a whine but I'm not going to sit around feeling greatful for something "I" paid for. 1C will continue to get my money regardless because there is absolutels nothing in this genre, that I love so much, that even comes close to matching Il2 but that doesn't mean there aren't serious problems with it and that doesn't mean that people can't have problems with the game.

Tater-SW-
11-14-2004, 03:39 PM
Each ship already has a threshhold for each level of damage. That is already programmed. X damage makes the model change to the first level of damage model X+10 makes smoke, X+100 makes 2d level of damage, and Z makes it sink (made up numbers). All they need do is change the numbers around a little. Not total recoding since each object gets coded anyway.

tater

LEXX_Luthor
11-14-2004, 05:34 PM
They already have the plane they want, they don't want others to fly Kate, Avenger, or B~24.

Need more planes soon, NOW! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

p1ngu666
11-14-2004, 07:42 PM
didnt bomb delay work in some previous patch?
btw, corsiar carrier killer loadout is tiny tims and ap harvars
and yeah, some smoke and stuff would be nice
speshialy on wooden flightdeck ones

clint-ruin
11-14-2004, 09:31 PM
As far as I understand the ground object and ship modelling is greatly simplified. One thing that really stood out to me is the destructive radius of torpedos for the B25/A20/Beau - about the same as a 1000lb bomb or so, extending up into the air. From limited testing I think bomb fragments are computed like a few hundred AP shells extending out from the point of impact - like the HE shells are done, but much much much more powerful. Just my feeling here, but I think that from looking at how the bombs are set up in the game, making the gunners killable with .30 cal fire would mean a 100lb bomb killing off an entire decks worth of crew at a time. Setting a static ship on the ground in Smolensk is a good way to see what individual fragments do - set up a near miss next to it and trace out the frag lines.

My hope would be that they implement a simple counter that checks if the ship object has been hit x amount of times in the last y seconds and puts it to sleep for a set time at the damage threshold. Rather something simple like that, than the inevitable patching game of trying to adjust the bomb/gun/ship damage in relation to each other :>

Tater-SW-
11-14-2004, 11:11 PM
Yeah, I posted something similar on simhq. Use some damage level to force the AAA to sleep for a few seconds. That would be more realistic anyway, suppressing the guns, not knocking them out.

I'm not sure a bomb taking out a bunch of guns (even a near miss) is actually a bad thing, though. Look at it this way, if we could take out the AAA, then it means it can be set higher to start with, and still be managable as it gets destroyed, heheh.

The AAA framerate fix is to let us kill the AAA http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

tater

Aaron_GT
11-15-2004, 05:25 AM
3.JG51_BigBear, free bug fixes doesn't make 1C any more money. Another free AEP patch instead of more planes (i.e. Pacific Fighters) would be nice but a drain on 1C's resources, not a benefit to it. Good support gets repeat business, though. I think 1C is treading a careful line between the two extremes. The more money 1C can make the more likely we are to get the Next Sim (tm), aka BoB.

With regard to the effects of dropping torpedos, as long as you drop them from a good height on land they make pretty good bombs!

clint-ruin
11-15-2004, 07:47 AM
Re 100lb bombs clearing decks, I was trying to add this (http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/USMC-C-Wake.html)
in to that post but couldn't find the link. Thanks to VMF223_Smitty for the link over in the mission builders forum.

Skip down to the section begining "Putnam's four Wildcats .." on the sinking of the Kisaragi DD with "1 or 2" 100lb bombs :>

I think there needs to be a pretty grand revision of ship vs ship and air antiship AI and damage generally, myself. At the moment it's credible only from a long way away - as scenery, basically. I think some greater ship AI [movement and fire control] and a re-assesment of range, damage and fire rates for all ship guns would be a good start. At the moment I'm trying very hard to make an an interesting SU vs Japan campaign. I went to start doing this with some open sea naval battles between the two sides.. not a good idea. Eventually gave up on that entirely in favour of some very limited carrier / overland flight ops instead.

The one thing that absolutely has to happen at some point in future is adding in some way to stop any ships main guns from trying to engage fighters buzzing around it at close range, as well as a way to 'set' shelling targets for a ship to focus on in the FMB. It's almost useless trying to make them do anything to each other right now.

Tater-SW-
11-15-2004, 09:07 AM
Yeah, I would love to see the ships have more complicated DMs, but that just isn't gonna happen, IMO. The answer we get is "this isn't a ship sim." I don't have a big problem with that, but I think that things could be hugely improved with slight changes to what is already coded. I don't even mean slight changes in the code itself, just some of the numbers they have plugged in.

For example:

Sinking time is set to some speed of running the sinking animation. Simply increase the time it takes to sink. Animation unchanged, just have it take 10-20 times longer than it does now

Smoke on X damage recieved is in now. Change X to 0.5X, or 0.25X to decrease the amount of damage to incur smoking.

The AAA problem is more complicated, but perhaps some amount of damaged recieved in a time interval could cause it to use the existing "sleep" funtionality for a few seconds, representing the gun crews making themselves small while being attacked.

tater

Daytraders
11-17-2004, 10:57 PM
ok if bomb delay dont work why do u see them say in the training tracks make sure to use at least a 3 second delay in arming screen or non delayed bombs will explode under you ? so delay must work, also there are threads that say to use different bomb time delays for different objectives ?. so does delay work or not please. thx

Tater-SW-
11-18-2004, 01:35 AM
It doesn't work against ships. Not at all. Works otherwise.

tater