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View Full Version : Hurricanes with 4 hispanos cannons in BoB ?



F19_Ob
07-09-2005, 08:16 AM
I know they were there but in few numbers and they weren't tuned yet.
Robert Tuck was one of those who favored and pushed for them.

Anyone know how many there were in BoB? Or have any other info on them, or Mark 2c hurricanes?

Platypus_1.JaVA
07-09-2005, 08:25 AM
as far as I know, a few hurricanes where modified to carry 20mm cannons indeed but, only for testing purposes. The Mark IIc went into production somewhere in 1941. Altough I have to look that up. Also, the Hurri MkIIb (with the 12 machine guns) wasn't in BoB also.

But, I am not very sure about it.

GerritJ9
07-09-2005, 08:32 AM
First tests with a cannon-armed Huricane (P2640) started in June 1940; this aeroplane was then allocated to 151 Squadron and is credited with shooting down a Dornier Do 17 on August 13th, 1940. Hawkers received permission to modify thirty pairs of wings to take four 20mm Hispanos and the first (V7360) flew on December 13th, 1940- well after the Battle of Britain had ended. So only ONE cannon-armed Huricane flew in action during the Battle- and it had only two, not four, guns, and these were Oerlikons, not Hispanos.
Source: "Hawker Hurricane" by Robert Jackson.

GerritJ9
07-09-2005, 08:41 AM
As for the twelve-gun Hurricane IIB, the same source indicates that this entered production in November 1940- again, after the BoB was officially over.

Low_Flyer_MkII
07-09-2005, 09:01 AM
"Canon would have been more effective than .303 Brownings. Hawkers had favoured installation of this heavier armament for almost five years. As it happened it was at this stage of the battle that No. 151 Squadron at North Weald recieved a Hurricane armed with cannon. The squadron already had limited experience of cannon. In 'Hurricane' Adrian Stewart reveals that a trials cannon-armed Hurricane, hitherto thought to have lain unblooded in a Matrlesham hanger in 1940 and then scrapped, had been collected in July by a Flight Lieutenant of the squadron, who had so damaged a 109 on 14 July that it crash-landed at base. On Eagle day the cannon-firing Hurricane pilot had destroyed a Do 17. Experimental cannon-firing Hurricanes took little further part in the battle, although in early September Flight Lieutenant Rabagliati of No 46 Squadron succeeded in blowing up a 109. The cannon were unreliable, not because of the guns themselves, but because of installation and feed problems. Hurricane IICs were not to come into their own until the New Year."

From 'Hurricane' by Edward Bishop.
Airlife Publishing. 1986.
ISBN 0 90693 62 0

It depends how minimal participation is translated by the games developers, I suppose.
Does the fact that an Australian pilot shot down a He 111 over Plymouth in a Gladiator warrant the Gladdie's inclusion?

And what about the Spitfire MkIIB?

The Italians were active over Britain for a limited period - in limited numbers, are we going to see Fiats over Canterbury?

I'd be all for anything with a validated reference.

VW-IceFire
07-09-2005, 10:43 AM
I think Oleg has already shown us dev shots of BoB era Italian planes so yes I think we can expect those.

Prototype Hurricane with cannons could be possible...I hope they model the unreliability of the very early cannons.

Tap tap tap...jam...one gun jammed...tap tap...stall...second cannon jams. Return to base http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Stigler_9_JG52
07-09-2005, 12:15 PM
Here we go again....

Oleg will manage to find evidence like this for some drawing board, test-bed oddity and then place it in the sim totally unrestricted, so, when you fly BoB online EVERY single Hurricane will have cannon.

I don't know why they even bother to model the venerable old MkI that actually did the fighting.

F19_Ob
07-09-2005, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Stigler_9_JG52:
Here we go again....

Oleg will manage to find evidence like this for some drawing board, test-bed oddity and then place it in the sim totally unrestricted, so, when you fly BoB online EVERY single Hurricane will have cannon.

I don't know why they even bother to model the venerable old MkI that actually did the fighting.

Well, I wasn't talking about the BoB sim at all....but anyway, as I understand BoB will contain all kinds of planes aswell as later ones too, not only the planes involved in the short period of BoB. Correct me if wrong.

So the people making online dogfight maps may do as they please as allways, even pitting spits against spits.
In this sim we could have me262's against Gladiators online or latest 1945 corsairs against Val's ,but not many servers have this setup. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I was just asking for some info about the cannon-equipped planes and got some....thanks for the replies fellas.

FritzGryphon
07-09-2005, 02:29 PM
as I understand BoB will contain all kinds of planes aswell as later ones too...Correct me if wrong

I think you are. What I've read it will be strictly BoB. Some wonky planes, like the Avro autogyro, but nothing post BoB.

LStarosta
07-09-2005, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">as I understand BoB will contain all kinds of planes aswell as later ones too...Correct me if wrong

I think you are. What I've read it will be strictly BoB. Some wonky planes, like the Avro autogyro, but nothing post BoB. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what they said about IL2. Now we have ETO, PTO, and some MTO aircraft as well. Never say never.

FritzGryphon
07-09-2005, 04:43 PM
Never say never.

Just talking about inital release. I remember Oleg saying there will be FW-190 and the like included in subsequent addon.

Tooz_69GIAP
07-09-2005, 05:50 PM
From what I have read over the last year and a half about BoB development is that initially, the release will contain strictly only those aircraft which were actively serving during the BoB period (this, btw, could include those Spits which were modded with 2x20mm Hispanos, and equipped a squadron in Group 10 for combat testing - they were woeful BTW, constantly jamming).

Then, a series of add ons are planned, such as the 3rd party France and Low Countries add on, and the Poland add on.

Then Oleg has said that the Med will be done after BoB (hence the reason we have no Med maps for FB/PF), and so on.

Eventually, Oleg reckons they'll be back in the Eastern Front in around 6 or 7 years or something.

I just hope that the choices of aircraft, maps, and objects which are modelled are made under far more intelligent and stringent criteria than in FB/PF.

WTE_Warg
07-09-2005, 05:52 PM
I think there may have been a few cannon armed Hurricanes around at the time of BOB. Still very experimental though. Note that they only had two cannons, not four like the IIc. It was a Mk.I with a 20mm Oerlikon in pods under each wing. (Hurricane L1750. of 151 Sqn)I also seem to recall of reading about a pilot in 111 Squadron who flew one, so there may have been more. (Book may have been "The Hardest Day" by A Price). He said it wasn't popular, as his Hurricane was slower then the others and was always jamming. Be he liked them. Also, the MkIIa (the fastest) Hurricane of December, 1940 had only eight browning's as did some of the early IIb's. The first IIc's reached the RAF in May, 41 equipping No.1 & 3 Squadrons, although Malta's No.126 Squadron arrived with them at around this time. I'd guess Nth Africa, would be some time after that. Hope this helps in some way.

WarWolfe_1
07-09-2005, 09:41 PM
I just hope that the choices of aircraft, maps, and objects which are modelled are made under far more intelligent and stringent criteria than in FB/PF.


Do you mean acurate, Historic, or what you want?

I only ask because what we have now is far better than any other WWII sim on the market. As far being acurate and historic goes, the game is not all incompassing. We'll found out all about BoB when oleg is ready to tell us.

VW-IceFire
07-09-2005, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by Stigler_9_JG52:
Here we go again....

Oleg will manage to find evidence like this for some drawing board, test-bed oddity and then place it in the sim totally unrestricted, so, when you fly BoB online EVERY single Hurricane will have cannon.

I don't know why they even bother to model the venerable old MkI that actually did the fighting.
Well you know many of those testbeds are banned in most servers anyways so big deal. Plus this Hurricane did fly in combat. Plus I fully expect Oleg to give us the disadvantages of the early cannons and allow us to force restricted numbers of aircraft for servers (so only 1 Hurricane with cannons).

Oleg mentioned something about seeing a early FW190 (an A-3) so I can see BoB expand quite easily into "Leaning Forward into France" as well so Spitfire Mark Vs, FW190A-3s, and Hurricane IIs. Can make for some very interesting early war scenarios.

jarink
07-09-2005, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkII:
It depends how minimal participation is translated by the games developers, I suppose.

Judging by current standards (YP-80, BF-109Z, Go-229, Me-262A-1aU4, BI-1, Ta-152 and the "almost-made-it-in-4.01" Do-335), I'd say chances of a cannon-armed Hurricane (and Spifire, for that matter) in BoB are fairly high.

F19_Ob
07-10-2005, 06:34 AM
Originally posted by GerritJ9:
So only ONE cannon-armed Huricane flew in action during the Battle- and it had only two, not four, guns, and these were Oerlikons, not Hispanos.
Source: "Hawker Hurricane" by Robert Jackson.

Thanks gerrit ..Oerlikons...pretty interesting.

Dunkelgrun
07-10-2005, 03:24 PM
Oleg initially said only 10-12 flyables, so

Spitfire Mks I & II
Hurricane Mk I
Defiant MkI
Blenheim Mk IF

Bf109E
Bf110C
Do17Z
He111H
Ju87B
Ju88A

Fiat GR50
Fiat CR42
Fiat BR20

are what I'd say were essential and that's 14. The Dev updates also showed a Bf108 and Wellington u/c, as well as the autogyro. They won't be really be much use unless they are flyable, as BoB was a daylight battle fought over the Channel and southern Britain.

Cheers!

Xiolablu3
07-10-2005, 06:34 PM
Yeah I'm afraid there was only one, he shot down a dornier then his windscreen smashed, so he had to land.

It doesnt say anything more about this plane in my BOB book. (which is VERY detailed.)

Stigler_9_JG52
07-10-2005, 09:52 PM
IceFire, nobody is saying this bird never flew in combat, but it was not even CLOSE to being a standard RAF BoB era Hurricane.

That's my point: people will simply opt for it because it's available, and there are no checks put on it. So, we'll have another group of virtual simpletons who think that Hurricanes were bristling with Hispanos during the Blitz. The same clowns that think almost every Corsair had a cannon, that rocket Bi-1s were operational, that MiG-3s had BFG configurations (our 3U was a model of which just SIX were made), etc., etc., etc.

It's truly lamentable, because these "convenient ueberplanes" obsure the few REAL ueberplanes there were in WWII and just reduce the historical value of the entire sim.