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View Full Version : Beware Axis Pilots! We're comming for you. (All your Bases are belong to us!)



Copperhead310th
01-10-2004, 03:23 AM
All your Bases are belong to us!http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
http://207.44.246.95/40/30/upload/p1554.jpg

Just out of curiosity what are you guys gonna do when we invade a DF server with all our heavily armed B-25's in mass?

Seriuosly are we the only group online that does bomber escourt? it's a great time! escourting human heavies in formation on a bomb run on an enemy base & then back home. What's even better is being 1 of the bomber guys. it's great imertion into the sim. B-25's are gonna rock! but we reaaly want our Libby's. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
We're testing our dedicated/scripted server on HL now. we should be ready to open to the publice 2 or 3 nights a week very soon stop stop on by & wing with the heavies. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://207.44.246.95/40/30/upload/p1553.jpg

http://imageshack.us/files/380th%20siggy.jpg

Copperhead310th
01-10-2004, 03:23 AM
All your Bases are belong to us!http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
http://207.44.246.95/40/30/upload/p1554.jpg

Just out of curiosity what are you guys gonna do when we invade a DF server with all our heavily armed B-25's in mass?

Seriuosly are we the only group online that does bomber escourt? it's a great time! escourting human heavies in formation on a bomb run on an enemy base & then back home. What's even better is being 1 of the bomber guys. it's great imertion into the sim. B-25's are gonna rock! but we reaaly want our Libby's. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
We're testing our dedicated/scripted server on HL now. we should be ready to open to the publice 2 or 3 nights a week very soon stop stop on by & wing with the heavies. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://207.44.246.95/40/30/upload/p1553.jpg

http://imageshack.us/files/380th%20siggy.jpg

Fehler
01-10-2004, 03:53 AM
Actually, attacking a group of B25's with 190's and 110's will be quite a lot of fun. Doing it at night would be even better. Too bad ehaust flame and radar arent modelled.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

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JG53_Gutted
01-10-2004, 04:09 AM
mk108 snacks..


mmmmmmmm

----------------------------------------------
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ElektroFredrik
01-10-2004, 04:15 AM
We will greeet you with 88s and those cute
75mm cannons on the Hs-129 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
And maybe some mk108s...
(All your Bombers are belong to us!)

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"What I study is sex and squirrels"

Copperhead310th
01-10-2004, 04:43 AM
Well of course you have to deal with our P-38's/47's/ 51's from the 310th FS http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
we don't fly with out our little freinds http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://imageshack.us/files/380th%20siggy.jpg

Copperhead310th
01-10-2004, 04:51 AM
Actually while i think of it. We're gonna set up a night real soon to test the severs limts.

We're going to invite a few squads over to max out the 310th/380th dedicated server to see what our hosting capabilites are. Soon as we get all the maps & scripting done that is.

http://imageshack.us/files/380th%20siggy.jpg

HellToupee
01-10-2004, 05:56 AM
solution 190A9 or a8s with mk103s, to attack form far to the far ebyond defensive fire range, 109k4 escort up high to get an easy kill on anyone that goes for the 190s, 190s should have good chances of surving long enough for tail to be cleared.

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spitwhiners1.jpg

Boandlgramer
01-10-2004, 06:18 AM
sometimes i fly axis planes too, but i am sure, you never hit my Homebase .
why not ? because i am not flying on an server with icons (ugly) , outsideview and without cockpit http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
in shorter words: i am not a cheater http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

RED_Boandl
http://www.707tkbn.org/members/sites/schmidt05.jpg

Diablo_777_AVG
01-10-2004, 08:50 AM
The Triple 7's love to fly escort for our big buddies. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://777AVG.com/sigs/sig09.gif

x__CRASH__x
01-10-2004, 09:15 AM
The bf-109Z and bf-110 will own you! Of course if they don't fix the B-17 AI gunners, who can see through clouds, through the darkness of night, and can still pickle a case of .50's into your cockpit while spinning to their deaths without a wing, then I can see the losses on the german side being quite heavy.

I don't mind Heavy Bombers with gunners. But when their aim can't be avoided, thats what I mind.

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/crash2.gif (http://www.ghostskies.com/)

Old_Canuck
01-10-2004, 10:03 AM
Copperhead, count me in to fly one of the heavies if I can make the time slot each week.

OC

"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing."

Cajun76
01-10-2004, 10:12 AM
I can fly a 'heavy' too, a P-47! For those pesky, medium altitude 109Ks guarding the Fw-190s. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle

Meanwhile, in the 20th century:

BOOM! Yeah, Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up. See this? This is my T-Bolt!! It's has 8 .50cals and 2000lbs+ worth of bombs and rockets. Republic's top of the line. You can find this in the Kick A$$ department. That's right, this sweet baby was made in Farmingdale, Long Island and Evansville, Indiana. Retails for about $82,997.95. It's got a turbo-supercharger, all metal control surfaces with blunt nosed ailerons, and a hair trigger. That's right, shop smart, shop Republic. YOU GOT THAT!? Now I swear, the next one of you primates, E-ven TOUCHES me..... - Anonymous http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Eagle_361st
01-10-2004, 10:16 AM
You can always count on your Yellow Nosed little friends to swat away those pesky Jerrie flies. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~S!
Eagle
Commanding Officer 361st vFG
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S 8
01-10-2004, 10:32 AM
And later in the war you should only let the new/green guys fly as Germans and let the more experienced ones fly as Allies......wouldnâ´t that be something http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_113_1073048715.jpg

p1ngu666
01-10-2004, 11:01 AM
just wondering how u guys aim? or do u go down on the deck?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
ud be fairly good with a he111 aiming and u dropping bombs when he did
ofcourse the he111 would be a major target for the attacking fighters

JG4_Karaya
01-10-2004, 11:19 AM
Just wait till we Luftwaffe guys show up with a squad of Me262A1 Schwalbe equipped with R4Ms.

That'll be fun!

Jaws2002
01-10-2004, 11:55 AM
Wake me up pls when they cross the border. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://ww2aircraft.virtualave.net/images/fw190-04.jpg

BS87
01-10-2004, 12:08 PM
Heh, i usually see you 380th guys on server, and i think "Yay! they ALWAYS fly bombers! Free kills!" And them i am horrible and utterly destroyed by you guys, and i load up some mk103s, then die again http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Time to head back and lick my wounds, though me and my A5 are up for the challange...

Loco-S
01-10-2004, 12:11 PM
I just want to join a Sturmbock verband...does anyone have FW 190 A8/R8..the one with the extra armor ...I promise that If I cant shot one bomber down with cannons...I will ram it! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/kurbalaganda/Loco-S.gif
Armis Bela, non venenis geri

Jaws2002
01-10-2004, 12:56 PM
Here you go Loco-s. Armed and ready.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/neilpage/tankmagblack13.jpg
Hehe I registered with luftwaffe one day before you. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Loco-S
01-10-2004, 01:02 PM
Sweet baby!!!!!...does it have a couple of MK 108's or MK 103..you know, based on it I can see if I should get to 65 meters or 40 BEFORE OPENING FIRE!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH...he he ...TAILGUNNERS BEWARE!!!

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/kurbalaganda/Loco-S.gif
Armis Bela, non venenis geri

Farbe_und_Bunt
01-10-2004, 01:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Just out of curiosity what are you guys gonna do when we invade a DF server with all our heavily armed B-25's in mass?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shoot 'em down "in mass".

Copperhead310th
01-10-2004, 02:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
just wondering how u guys aim? or do u go down on the deck?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
ud be fairly good with a he111 aiming and u dropping bombs when he did
ofcourse the he111 would be a major target for the attacking fighters<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actully that what we do. this shot was just Formation practice. lol As you can see we need a lot of work. lol We'll have the Flight leader fly an He-111 & call out over the com to drop ordancne. work pretty well actually. So we try to do Med alt bomb runs. (above 4ooom) With out a Norden it's kinda hard. But with 9 B-1 17's all carring 16 500lb bombs we pretty much can effectivly carpet bomb an enemy instalation. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://imageshack.us/files/380th%20siggy.jpg

Jaws2002
01-10-2004, 02:27 PM
Well we only have to take the He-111 and you'll miss by ten miles from that altitude. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Copperhead310th
01-10-2004, 02:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Boandlgramer:
sometimes i fly axis planes too, but i am sure, you never hit my Homebase .
why not ? because i am not flying on an server with icons (ugly) , outsideview and without cockpit http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
in shorter words: i am not a cheater http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

RED_Boandl
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice attempt at trolling. these were training settings. We we're working on formation. So you have your preferd settings, we have ours. We're using the B-17 as a training tool. once we have a flyable US bomber with working Norden bomb site we'll drop the B-17 untill the cockpit is finnished. God you full real guys just 9iss me of too no end. bunch of Gdamed eliteists. you act like just because you fly on more diffucult settings that you so much better than everyone else. well you can shove it up you @ss as far as i'm concerned. you so called Full real BS ain't even close to "full real". Full real would've been actually BEING there. & i'm sure none of you Full Real guys would had the balls or stomach for that. So stop callingit Full real & call it what it really is. Full difficulty.

http://imageshack.us/files/380th%20siggy.jpg

Copperhead310th
01-10-2004, 02:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jaws2002:
...and you'll miss by ten miles from that altitude. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


lol wanna make a bet?

http://imageshack.us/files/380th%20siggy.jpg

NUkua__
01-10-2004, 03:08 PM
my answer to the B-17 problem

http://www.oldgloryprints.com/Combat_Over_the_Reich.jpg

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/asbel/images/ghibli/porco_a.jpg

ElAurens
01-10-2004, 04:38 PM
My answer to the B17 "problem" is simple. No externals. Hence, no AI flyables. I tried it for a while on my "Defence of Rangoon" map, and as long as the "Betty" (IL4) and Blenheim I were flown by upright folks it was ok. But the fighter jocks would simply hunt them down with the external view. Pure BS. So, no more EL servers with externals on. A pity it's true, but the external "radar" totally destroys gameplay.

Hope we get some Allied multi flyables soon. I like the bombers really, but not at the expense of immersive play....

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

BlitzPig_EL

Copperhead310th
01-10-2004, 05:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NUkua__:
my answer to the B-17 problem

http://www.oldgloryprints.com/Combat_Over_the_Reich.jpg

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/asbel/images/ghibli/porco_a.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Our reply to your "Answer". http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
http://www.gibbageart.com/images/p-80-38.jpg

http://imageshack.us/files/380th%20siggy.jpg

p1ngu666
01-10-2004, 06:07 PM
pepper those engines http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

nicolas10
01-10-2004, 06:07 PM
91st BG on the way http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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The first official D12 whiner!

Korolov
01-10-2004, 06:15 PM
If you allow the Me-262, then I have two words:

Fecking nuts!

If you ban it, then I'd say you guys will have about a 40% loss ratio. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg

Deacon352nd
01-10-2004, 06:28 PM
Copperhead,
~S~ Just let the 352ndFG know when and where and we'll give you cover. If need be we could always play the bad guys if there are so many escorts as to make your server too unreal but we'd rather fly our P-51's.
Deacon

http://www.352ndfg.com/Home/Images/Pilots/deacon7.jpg

US380thBG-Tug-
01-12-2004, 10:06 AM
I think we can give Boandlgramer the benefit of the doubt and assume he didn't think carefully about his post. I'm sure he realizes the necessity of external view to fly a B17 and that external view enabled does not necessarily mean no cockpit is also enabled. Or maybe he's new.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>my answer to the B-17 problem<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fortunately (for bomber fans), servers with 262s enabled are pretty rare. Gun-pod totin' 190s and 109s are already more than enough to deal with, thanks anyway though. I'll take your kind offer under advisement http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>My answer to the B17 "problem" is simple. No externals.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Simple and effective http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Externals stink, no doubt.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If you ban it, then I'd say you guys will have about a 40% loss ratio.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It probably does average around that, certainly higher in servers harboring excellent marksmen. I keep touting the marksmenship of PollyGrey -and I'm not trying to date him or anything, just giving due respect - but it's guys like that that give us fort jockeys serious trouble. Couple passes and a 4-ship of forts is down.

Of course, as the size of the fort formation increases, the enemy losses rise as well. But my general feeling is that, again on average, the forts come up on the short end of the win/loss equation. I know that will come as a shock to some, but it's true. Of course, the balance tips once B-17s get into the airspace over an enemy base. That's a lot of bombs and I think most full-time bomber pilots will tell you that it's very possible to get bombs on target from respectable altitudes (&gt;4000m). Like anything it takes practice.

In any event, it's good clean fun all around. Sometimes you're the windshield sometimes the bug.

http://imageshack.us/files/siggy.jpg

Copperhead310th
01-12-2004, 10:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Of course, as the size of the fort formation increases, the enemy losses rise as well. But my general feeling is that, again on average, the forts come up on the short end of the win/loss equation. I know that will come as a shock to some, but it's true. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here here Well Said Capt. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

http://imageshack.us/files/380th%20siggy.jpg

JG26Red
01-12-2004, 10:27 AM
i think a BF110G with all them addon weapons could be a good bomber killer, hopefully people will be smart and just remove the jets, people complain about a bunch of TA152s but what would be worse? at least they are prop planes, i can see the allied boys just flying a ton of p80s only and then most LW will be forced to jump in 262, 229 or 163 to have a chance... sigh...

Copperhead310th
01-12-2004, 10:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG26Red:
..... i can see the allied boys just flying a ton of p80s only and then most LW will be forced to jump in 262, 229 or 163 to have a chance... sigh...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually i think it'll be the other way around.
We have the P-80 to deal with the 262. Not the 262 to deal with the P-80. Remember the Me-262 came 1st. So the P-80 was biult to "deal" with the nazi jet menace.
But the 262 isn't a real problem. lol i used to shoot 'em down in P-40's & P-39's all the time.

http://imageshack.us/files/380th%20siggy.jpg

Gibbage1
01-12-2004, 01:15 PM
Ya. I have done the bomber things B4. Its fun when you can do it! Its just there are a lot of noobs who dont help heavies online.

Like when I hate off in a B-17, and two other B-17's take off and "split up" is fustrating. Or when your "escort" stays about 100 meters behind you. Thats just stupid. Just a few tips for people here.

#1, bombers should stick togeather. Fly very close and dont form a typical "conga line". The tail-end-charly gets picked off easy, and then the next guy in the line, and then the next wile only suffering from fire of 1 bomber. Stay in a box formatin for 4, or a like abrest for 3 or less.

#2, for the escorts. DONT FLY TOO CLOSE!!!! I get sick and tired of my escorts flying too close. All they are is an easy kill for a bouncing 109 before the 109 gets me. Fly high and in front of the bomber pack. That way the fighter needs too choose. Go after the fighter and leave the bombers, or go for the bombers and let the fighters bounce them as they get fixated on the bombers. Its a win-win if escorts fly 1000M above, and 500m forward. Its a loose loose if they fly behind and level.

#3, good comunication. Call your targets beofre the fleet get there. So you dont have 5 bombers hitting the same target.

#4, set your bomb timer!!! I do 3 seconds, and fly VERY close to the ground on my run since we dotn have a bomb sight yet. ITs a lot easier to hit things. Just make sure a friend is not in formation behind you. If he is, its his own dumb fault for not breaking off on the bomb run!

#5, NOOBIES SHOULD NEVER FLY BOMBERS ONLINE!!!!!!!!! You would NOT believe the ammount of LAMERS I see tryign too DRIVE there B-17 too the enemy base with 1 engine and crashing it. There are ways of flying the B-17 in QMB's or small un-populated servers. Also in servers were the loss of an aircraft or pilot does not matter. But when my team is low on available pilots and aircraft, and I see the same noob crash a B-17 on takeoff for the 10th time in a row, I get pissed.

#6, DONT FLY BOMBERS ONLINE IF YOUR A NOOBIE!! ARG!!!!!

Gib

Gibbage1
01-12-2004, 01:18 PM
Well the Me-262 was NOT built as an air-2-air fighter. It was built as a fast ground attack aircraft, and put into the role of anti-bomber. The P-80 was built as a pure fighter and will fly like a fighter.

On the other hand, the He-162 was more of a fighter. I think the P-80 pilots will find the Me-262 "easy meat" but the He-162 a nice challange.

The real threat to bombers is ignorance http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Fighter cover that wont cover, and formations that wont stay in formation.

Gib

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:

Actually i think it'll be the other way around.
We have the P-80 to deal with the 262. Not the 262 to deal with the P-80. Remember the Me-262 came 1st. So the P-80 was biult to "deal" with the nazi jet menace.
But the 262 isn't a real problem. lol i used to shoot 'em down in P-40's & P-39's all the time.

http://imageshack.us/files/380th%20siggy.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GoodKn1ght
01-12-2004, 01:26 PM
i hope they fix the overmodeled AI gunners on the b17. oh wait.. i dont care i dont fly noob settings. you can fly b17s 10 feet off the ground all you want.

Gibbage1
01-12-2004, 02:02 PM
The AI gunners are only overmodeled if your anti-bomber skill is undermodeled. Nuff said http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Gib

faustnik
01-12-2004, 02:02 PM
Our Mk108s are loaded and our BMWs are warming up Copperhead!

S!

faust

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/FaustSig
www.7Jg77.com (http://www.7jg77.com)

faustnik
01-12-2004, 02:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Well the Me-262 was NOT built as an air-2-air fighter. It was built as a fast ground attack aircraft, and put into the role of anti-bomber. The P-80 was built as a pure fighter and will fly like a fighter.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why do you say that Gibbage? It was built as a fighter and then forced to adapt to the fighter-bomber role later on the Fuhrer's orders. It's original design was as a fighter, right?

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Dire_Wolf_1
01-12-2004, 02:10 PM
I can't wait for the finished B17 cockpit and gunners positions.

JG26Red
01-12-2004, 02:21 PM
The LW will get 2 fast fighters i.e. the 162 and 229, but from what i heard they handle like shiznit... flying AI planes i took a 162, omg, it was fast but handled like poo poo... it wouldnt turn lol.. or roll.. or well idunno.. i did do over 1200kph in a dive lol

GoodKn1ght
01-12-2004, 02:27 PM
ur squadmate CRASH admits it gibbage face the facts.

crazyivan1970
01-12-2004, 03:51 PM
Hehehe, nice fat and jucy flying targets. Bring them in http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Future-
01-12-2004, 04:21 PM
Since the day he started his flame war against bombers (all bombers), Goodknight seems to be irrationally bend on using every opportunity he gets to whine against all that attacks ground targets from the skies.

I wonder if that has anything to do with the FACT that he got banned permanently from Slammin's server for his whining and repeated rule violatings.

And while I admit that the ai gunners need some fixing, it's definitely not what Goodknight or some others state... simply tuning them down won't fix the main problem. Since I'm not in the mood of repeating what I posted earlier AGAIN, I hereby ask everybody who is truely interested in this "ai problem" to look up the proper threads both here in general discussion and in Oleg's Ready Room.

Thx for reading.

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

BBB_PzGrenni
01-12-2004, 04:42 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Muahaha!!! Our RECON already works too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW3/fw200-001.jpg

Gibbage1
01-12-2004, 05:34 PM
Well if Crash is complaining about Bomber AI, then Crash needs to addopt some LUFTWAFFA tactics to deal with bombers. But I have never heard him say anything about gunners, and I am on coms with him all the time, and fly with him a lot.

You know you model things accuratly when things like luftwaffa tactics work, and other things dont. Head on passes and diving on bombers work, and you dont get shot up. Doing something like sticking on a bombers 6 and shooting at him wont, and its just stupid. Read up on Luftwaffa tactics on how they deal with bombers, and you may find them damn easy too shoot down. Or you can just be ignorant and sit here and whine about stuff you cant controle or do. All you need is a Mk 108 and a little bit of brains to down a bomber. If your having problems, then I doubt its from the lack of th Mk 108 since you fly 190's.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GoodKn1ght:
ur squadmate CRASH admits it gibbage face the facts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[This message was edited by Gibbage1 on Mon January 12 2004 at 04:45 PM.]

GoodKn1ght
01-12-2004, 05:50 PM
from this thread:

"The bf-109Z and bf-110 will own you! Of course if they don't fix the B-17 AI gunners, who can see through clouds, through the darkness of night, and can still pickle a case of .50's into your cockpit while spinning to their deaths without a wing, then I can see the losses on the german side being quite heavy.

I don't mind Heavy Bombers with gunners. But when their aim can't be avoided, thats what I mind." -crash

i tend to agree here. it has nothing to do with tactics or anything like that. its just an error on part of the development team.

FW190fan
01-12-2004, 05:50 PM
When flying an FW190, approach the bomber from 12 o'clock high(about 10 degrees above).

Then strafe the cockpit or engines with all six guns as you would a ground target. Repeat as necessary.

Six o'clock attacks are permissable in the Me262 due to it's very high closing speeds and enormous firepower.

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg

Gibbage1
01-12-2004, 06:50 PM
Some AI gunners CANT be avoided, like when you approach dead 6. You would be an easy target for a real life gunner since your a STILL TARGET FROM THE GUNNERS POSITION! Like I said. Use Luftwaffa attack tacticw = easy bomber kills. Your just upset because it takes time and requires more then 1 pass to down a lot of bombers, and takes a little bit of skill. Like FW190fan said, high angles of attack or fast closing wins. That means 12 high, or from the sides or head on in a 190/109 or any way in the 262. Thats why escorts are so important. It keeps the Luftwaffa from setting up the proper attack.

Gib


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GoodKn1ght:
from this thread:

"The bf-109Z and bf-110 will own you! Of course if they don't fix the B-17 AI gunners, who can see through clouds, through the darkness of night, and can still pickle a case of .50's into your cockpit while spinning to their deaths without a wing, then I can see the losses on the german side being quite heavy.

I don't mind Heavy Bombers with gunners. But when their aim can't be avoided, thats what I mind." -crash

i tend to agree here. it has nothing to do with tactics or anything like that. its just an error on part of the development team.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[This message was edited by Gibbage1 on Mon January 12 2004 at 09:24 PM.]

Gibbage1
01-12-2004, 06:54 PM
Stupid double post.

[This message was edited by Gibbage1 on Mon January 12 2004 at 09:23 PM.]

Korolov
01-12-2004, 07:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by US380thBG-Tug-:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If you ban it, then I'd say you guys will have about a 40% loss ratio.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It probably does average around that, certainly higher in servers harboring excellent marksmen. I keep touting the marksmenship of PollyGrey -and I'm not trying to date him or anything, just giving due respect - but it's guys like that that give us fort jockeys serious trouble. Couple passes and a 4-ship of forts is down.

Of course, as the size of the fort formation increases, the enemy losses rise as well. But my general feeling is that, again on average, the forts come up on the short end of the win/loss equation. I know that will come as a shock to some, but it's true. Of course, the balance tips once B-17s get into the airspace over an enemy base. That's a lot of bombs and I think most full-time bomber pilots will tell you that it's very possible to get bombs on target from respectable altitudes (&gt;4000m). Like anything it takes practice.

In any event, it's good clean fun all around. Sometimes you're the windshield sometimes the bug.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

During the beta patch when we had '17s flying around, I'd have a group of 3 or 4 go out to attack the enemy base; even with fighter escort, we had about a 66% loss ratio. Nasty, to say the least; perhaps with the B-25 the losses won't be as bad, but I'd still prefer a A-26 or B-26.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg

KGr.HH-Sunburst
01-12-2004, 07:32 PM
yes set up a server wich is historical correct
let those B17s fly with P51,47 as escort and i will attack in my me262 with rockets http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
im sure u wont like that

and if not so,like i always do i jump in my il2
first serie with 16x rs rockets and give u hell

IMO the il2 1 serie with that amount of rockets is the best way to down those sniper titanium flying platforms http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif if done it alot and it works great for me.

http://www.warhawks.tk/
http://www.digital-d.nl/fotos/sunburstsig.jpg

Raider__1
01-12-2004, 07:47 PM
I am ready. Sounds like fun. Bombers Beware.

Copperhead310th
01-12-2004, 10:53 PM
Goodknight this is my thread. Beat it you troll. Every where you go you cause trouble. In other words don't go away mad just go the hell away

[This message was edited by Copperhead310th on Tue January 13 2004 at 12:26 AM.]

FuryFighter
01-13-2004, 12:53 AM
hehehe ppl saying about the 262 was for ground attack, they are wrong. The Me 262 was built to dominate the skies... hitler wanted them to bomb the invasion, not the guys at Messerschmitt. It was a first generation military jet yes, as was the P-80, so the P-80 potentially has the same flaws as the LW's first generation jet. Though axis jets used axial turbines and the allies (UK and USA) had centrifugal engines. From what I remember axial turbines offered better thrust and the like, but were weaker. Centrifugal engines were sturdier but not as effective.

But now... after the expansion. We have heavy bombers being intercepted by 262's and maybe the Go 229's. Ok... in come the P-80s to engage them and they are then bounced by the He 162's which are a second generation jet along with the Go 229. Of course there will be allied props jobs present, mustangs and the like. Then there are the LW props, 190's late 109's that Ta 152 thing.

If the real war ever came to that, it would be a war of attrition in terms of planes and pilots. The Allies would still win out, but after a longer time in battle and with even more losses.

Lol anyways.. on topic, those are some killer formations guys, I dunno if you know but over at ubi theres a bunch of use who fly under the callsign, RS (Red Swarm). We're a group of bomber drivers and I propose one day we hold a virtual bomber competition. I think that would be great fun.

http://www.angelfire.com/space2/messerschmitt262/sig_test.jpg

Gibbage1
01-13-2004, 12:59 AM
You want to be historicaly correct? OK.

You in a 262 with 1 wingman go up against 300 B-17's flying in a tight box formation, and 150 escort fighters. Also your flying on fumes before you get to the bombers so you only have 1 pass before you need to run home. Enjoy!!!

Online is not like real life were you have 1 B-17 going in solo against a pack of 109's, 190's and Me-262's. Dont confuse real life with sims. Because if you want a real experance, delete IL2 and brake the CD after you die and never EVER play again. Thats about as close too real you will get without pointing a gun too your head.

Gib

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sunburst-97th:
yes set up a server wich is historical correct
let those B17s fly with P51,47 as escort and i will attack in my me262 with rockets http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
im sure u wont like that

and if not so,like i always do i jump in my il2
first serie with 16x rs rockets and give u hell

IMO the il2 1 serie with that amount of rockets is the best way to down those sniper titanium flying platforms http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif if done it alot and it works great for me.

http://www.warhawks.tk/
http://www.digital-d.nl/fotos/sunburstsig.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gibbage1
01-13-2004, 01:05 AM
Yes and no. Fact 1, the single Centrifugal engine in the P-80 was more powerfull then BOTH Me-262's Axial engine put togeather. Also it was lighter then both and caused less aerodynamic drag. The Germans did not have the materials or knolege too perfect Axial engines yet. They would have been better to work with the Centrifugal engine. Hence the 10 hour flight time for the Me-262's engines Vs P-80's still flying on the same engine today http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Yes, Axial engines are better and more advanced, but back then, they were NOT.

Gib

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FuryFighter:
first generation jet. Though axis jets used axial turbines and the allies (UK and USA) had centrifugal engines. From what I remember axial turbines offered better thrust and the like, but were weaker. Centrifugal engines were sturdier but not as effective.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GoodKn1ght
01-13-2004, 02:25 AM
wasnt trying to cause trouble, just agreeing with what was said earlier. getting shot in clouds or while a b17 is going down means theres something wrong. how am i supposed to adjust my tactics again?
not fly in clouds?
not shoot down b17s?
kill all the AI gunners, then shoot the plane down?
im not trying to cause trouble. If anyone should be accused of that it may be yourself. the title of the thread is just asking to get flammed. I know u are kidding thats why i didnt say anything about ur bomb squad, but others dont.
anyhow all that aside, good luck with ur new bomb squad and future b25s.
-gk

Menthol_moose
01-13-2004, 03:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Yes and no. Fact 1, the single Centrifugal engine in the P-80 was more powerfull then BOTH Me-262's Axial engine put togeather. Also it was lighter then both and caused less aerodynamic drag. QUOTE]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

From what ive read, and I must admit im not aerodynamic expert a groundbreaking feature of the 262 was its swept back wings a important feature of high speed aircraft.

Ankanor
01-13-2004, 04:32 AM
Historical settings? 1943 with escort going back without contact with the enemy? Sign me in!!! Also, 1944 is alright too, but only if we get the Sturmbock. Then it would be real fun. Just imagine: Sturmbocks and A9s beating the Bombers while the K-4s, G-10 and the D-9s tangle with the fighter escort. My goodness, I can hear it:
"Sturm group from Caesar1, tight formation, prepare for head-on attack. Phoenix group, watch out for Indianer. Fire at will!!!"

http://server4.uploadit.org/files2/101203-delphinche.jpg
Some things are worth fighting for.
And most of them wear miniskirts...

ElAurens
01-13-2004, 04:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Menthol_moose:
From what ive read, and I must admit im not aerodynamic expert a groundbreaking feature of the 262 was its swept back wings a important feature of high speed aircraft.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True moose, but at the low (by jet standards) speeds of the Me262 there was not much to be gained by using the swept wing. And remember that any aerodynamic advantage gained by using the swept wing was no doubt cancelled by having 2 engines stuck out in the breeze...

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

BlitzPig_EL

ElAurens
01-13-2004, 05:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FuryFighter:
He 162's which are a second generation jet along with the Go 229.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The He 162 and Go 229 are still first generation jets...

The second generation are represented by the Mig 15 and F86 Sabre. Care to take on one of those with your Go 229?

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

BlitzPig_EL

Future-
01-13-2004, 05:54 AM
Gentlemen, I think we all had some fun with Copper's thread here. Let's wait and see how all will turn out once the add-on is here.


Now, this CALL goes out to ALL the fighter squads and bomber wings that both like to fight alongside us (310th/380th) and to oppose us.
If you guys like, check in at our forum (direct url: http://invisionfree.com/forums/310th_VFBG ) , so we can set up a date when we will push the 310th/380th server to it's absolute limits, and maybe organize a few joint flights, competitions and friendly battles.

S!

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

Cajun76
01-13-2004, 06:18 AM
This whole thing sounds suspiciously like a simulated series of air battles set in the context of a huge and horrible conflict. Fly friendly! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle

Meanwhile, in the 20th century:

BOOM! Yeah, Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up. See this? This is my T-Bolt!! It's has 8 .50cals and 2000lbs+ worth of bombs and rockets. Republic's top of the line. You can find this in the Kick A$$ department. That's right, this sweet baby was made in Farmingdale, Long Island and Evansville, Indiana. Retails for about $82,997.95. It's got a turbo-supercharger, all metal control surfaces with blunt nosed ailerons, and a hair trigger. That's right, shop smart, shop Republic. YOU GOT THAT!? Now I swear, the next one of you primates, E-ven TOUCHES me..... - Anonymous http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Future-
01-13-2004, 08:25 AM
Uhm, btw, Ankanor, I really like your sig http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

Brotrob
01-13-2004, 09:25 AM
For me, attacing Bombers and being forced to evade Enemyfighters guarantees the most Fun . Then I remember the good old EAW days.

Soon the Plainset allows such exiting Scenarios, cant wait. Will surely double the Fun online, organised Bombers/ Escorts against the LW.

But, I also have to agree with the People , who say that the AI-Gunners will lower the Fun.

The FB Engine only allows small Numbers of Planes , at least on the PCs of most users, so the high accuracy of the Gunners may be a Contribution to the Fact, that the LW never has to face a real Bomberformation. To give the Bombers a minumal Chance of Survival, their Gunners have been set to Sniper-Ace-AI.

But for the Future, when there are big For mations of allied Bombers, its necesary to reduce accuracy of the KI-Gunners, to maintain the fun.

Just an Example : Whoever doubts that AI is to good, should go to Quickmissionbuilder, take a G6 with Standartarmement ( 2 cm ) and try to kill ONE lonely B 17 ( AI = normal ) WITHOUT getting the Engine shot up. Its nearly impossible. Even at speeds of TAS 800 km/h the Gunners will hit you. If you dont come EXACTLY from the tiny-low 12, they will hit you on every pass, no matter what speed you have. And they dont hit the Wing, but the Engine and pilot.

In Reality a lonesome Bomber was dead meat, and in Reality a very fast Fighter couldnt be hit on purpose, couse the manual MG-Turrets werent able to deal with such high closing speed. ( Otherwise only few Experten coult land some hits at this speed )

So I`m saying , for now AI-Accuracy is acceptable, but for what we are expecting , it should be reduced.


Greetings,

BLUE_Brotrob

FW190fan
01-13-2004, 10:20 AM
German developments in both jet engine technology as well as high speed flight was limited only by the war situation, and don't delude yourself please - they were on the forefront of both. That's why Gotha could contemplate and indeed carry out the construction of an all-wing twin-jet aircraft that was not only more advanced than anything out there, it was actually TOO advanced for it's own good.

Similarly, this is why Messerschmitt was already developing single engine jet fighters not only with swept wings, but with variable sweeping wings and fully swept tailplanes as well.

Hence, at a time when GB and the US were struggling mightily with jet technology, Germany already not only had two jet fighters in service, but also had a twin-jet medium bomber in operational service that could do 460+ mph. There was simply nothing else in it's class anywhere.

Germany's problem was that they were badly outnumbered and badly out-resourced.(In addition to being on the wrong side of history)

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg

US380thBG-Tug-
01-13-2004, 10:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>wasnt trying to cause trouble, just agreeing with what was said earlier. getting shot in clouds or while a b17 is going down means theres something wrong. how am i supposed to adjust my tactics again?
not fly in clouds?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll be among the first to admit that AI gunners make an occassional highly improbable kill. At the same time, there are also a number of well developed threads which document -accurately I think- the many shortcomings of the AI gunnery. Yes, it's frustrating to get PK'ed in a high speed, high deflection pass but I assure you it's equally frustrating to get vaporized from a short burst of cannon fire or to have your gunners just simply refuse to fire.

I think it was Brotrob who made the point that it seems to be a play balance issue, and I agree. It can be argued that this is/isn't historically accurate. But from my experience, the really great virtual LW pilots who employ good tactics and have excellent marksmenship tend to enjoy a great deal of success against the heavy bombers (points towards GoodKnight). It's the crap pilots that help even the score. Sounds pretty reasonable to me. Ironically, though, it's the great pilots that piss and moan the most when they do occassionally get shot down or, heavens forbid, bombed on the tarmac(still pointing in the general direction of GoodKnight).

At the end of the day, a good balance ensures that there are whole squads willing to fly bombers into the teeth of Mk108 fire and plenty of fighter pilots willing to continue to attack fortress formations. Savvy?

http://imageshack.us/files/siggy.jpg

Menthol_moose
01-13-2004, 12:36 PM
[QUOTE]
True moose, but at the low (by jet standards) speeds of the Me262 there was not much to be gained by using the swept wing. And remember that any aerodynamic advantage gained by using the swept wing was no doubt cancelled by having 2 engines stuck out in the breeze...

[QUOTE]

Ah.. your right about that too.

Btw, were the engines as fragile to gunfire as they are made out to be in FB? Even the slightest burst of fire from .50 cals set them alight with alarming ease &gt;http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Anyway, I look forward to seeing what the P-80 has to offer. The 6 centre lined guns should be a bit easier for some of the more average pilots than the 108's

Though im really looking forward to these bomber wars, should be a awesome sight.

Gibbage1
01-13-2004, 12:51 PM
The 6 centerline grouped guns PLUS the lead computing gunsight will be DEVISTATING. It will allow the accuracy needed too "pick your part" that you would like removed from the enemy's aircraft http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Gib

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Menthol_moose:
[QUOTE]
True moose, but at the low (by jet standards) speeds of the Me262 there was not much to be gained by using the swept wing. And remember that any aerodynamic advantage gained by using the swept wing was no doubt cancelled by having 2 engines stuck out in the breeze...

[QUOTE]

Ah.. your right about that too.

Btw, were the engines as fragile to gunfire as they are made out to be in FB? Even the slightest burst of fire from .50 cals set them alight with alarming ease &gt;http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Anyway, I look forward to seeing what the P-80 has to offer. The 6 centre lined guns should be a bit easier for some of the more average pilots than the 108's

Though im really looking forward to these bomber wars, should be a awesome sight.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cajun76
01-13-2004, 02:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FW190fan:
Germany's problem was that they were badly outnumbered and badly out-resourced.(In addition to being on the wrong side of history)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif For the first sentance quoted.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif For the last sentence qutoed. I find it....disturbing. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle

Meanwhile, in the 20th century:

BOOM! Yeah, Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up. See this? This is my T-Bolt!! It's has 8 .50cals and 2000lbs+ worth of bombs and rockets. Republic's top of the line. You can find this in the Kick A$$ department. That's right, this sweet baby was made in Farmingdale, Long Island and Evansville, Indiana. Retails for about $82,997.95. It's got a turbo-supercharger, all metal control surfaces with blunt nosed ailerons, and a hair trigger. That's right, shop smart, shop Republic. YOU GOT THAT!? Now I swear, the next one of you primates, E-ven TOUCHES me..... - Anonymous http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

FW190fan
01-13-2004, 02:23 PM
Cajun, what do you mean disturbing?

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg

faustnik
01-13-2004, 02:51 PM
The biggest difference between the P-80 and the Me262 was that the 262 was used in combat in the ETO. The P-80 might have been a good a/c but, the fact is the LW got its jet up over Europe and into combat.

The P-80 belongs on servers with the Yak-9 and La-7, not escorting B-17s over Germany.

As for the P-80s weapons/gunsight setup, just nasty! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/FaustSig
www.7Jg77.com (http://www.7jg77.com)

Future-
01-13-2004, 04:32 PM
I think where a plane belongs to is ultimately up to the individual server host.

For example, we currently have several servers using eastern front maps with the A6M Zero and the Ki-84 available.
Realistic or historically correct? Definitely not. Fun to fly and have them around? BY ALL MEANS!

So if the LW guys wanna hara$$ B-25s or B-17s with their 262s, let them, but whereever there's a 262, there also should be the P-80; not for historical accuracy, but for fairness and fun.

S!

Edit: Stupid forum, it replaced the -a$$ of hara$$ with *** ... lol ... must be MS word inspired.

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

faustnik
01-13-2004, 04:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Future-:
I think where a plane belongs to is ultimately up to the individual server host.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can't argue there! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/FaustSig
www.7Jg77.com (http://www.7jg77.com)

FW190fan
01-13-2004, 06:58 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Future-:

I think where a plane belongs to is ultimately up to the individual server host.
------------------------------------

I couldn't agree more. It's supposed to be fun, so all servers don't have to be 100% historically correct.


---------------------------------------------

For example, we currently have several servers using eastern front maps with the A6M Zero and the Ki-84 available.
---------------------------------------------

This is true and it's a bummer IMO. I can only hope that one day there will be a gigantic Pacific map, or at least a series of smaller maps. The Zero looks terribly out of place flying over the Crimea.

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg

FW190fan
01-13-2004, 07:02 PM
Actually, even the maps of the West we have now aren't really big enough for true strategic warfare.

They're too small, and even the airfields are mostly too small to be good heavy bomber bases.(Don't get me wrong-I'm glad to have them)

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg

Menthol_moose
01-13-2004, 08:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
The 6 centerline grouped guns PLUS the lead computing gunsight will be DEVISTATING. It will allow the accuracy needed too "pick your part" that you would like removed from the enemy's aircraft http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Gib

QUOTE]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Any links about this gunsite, im keen to look up about it. Sounds interesting in pre-transistor days !

dieadler
01-13-2004, 09:50 PM
Sounds good. A nice big target rich environment. The Luftwaffe will be ready!

In den staub mit allen feinden gross deutschlands!

GAU_8
01-13-2004, 10:23 PM
im sure many of you do not like the whole b-17 situation with no cockpit.. no its not realistic..but it adds in degree of difficulty, where it takes away from reality.

in regular view, your camera may be in the same spot, but your aircraft is not, put it into F8, and youre locked in only on roll, or yaw, but not pitch, and you cant look around,

anytime you throw in a few bombers for even a decent formation..it takes a bit of practice.

keeping yourself in formation

SA of other bombers in your formation

SA of attacking aircraft ripping thru formation

dropping ordinance... while maintaining general SA..

all that with an external camera, and all ships moving in a 3 axis space, its actually very nerve racking.
i WELCOME a cockpit.

now for bombing.. we dont have a sight.. but we have a tactic, even when there is no HE-111 nearby to guide us. (i personally suck when bombing low alt.. i have a knack for stratospheric runs though)

many times im in a server, and i see people saying " i just blew up for now reason..WHY????"

i tell them they were bombed by me...."look UP 8K"
" you cant precision bomb that high!"

"yes...... yes I CAN. and just did."

while ai gunnery can be questionable,

my deployment of ordinance is NOT.

i am actually quite happy to see people who can go thru a formation now.. and i applaud you!

you can shoot me down all day long, and i am fine with that! GOOD KILL! i say. but when its quiet,....... remember......remember..... to look up.

S~

GAU

http://imageshack.us/files/Tugs%20Siggy.jpg

Cajun76
01-14-2004, 01:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FW190fan:
Cajun, what do you mean disturbing?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, Fan, you deserved a better explanation of my comments, but I was running late for work. However, I might've gotten the wrong impression from your post, although it still strikes me as 'disturbing'. Perhaps you could explain what you mean by '

Germany's problem was that they were badly outnumbered and badly out-resourced.(In addition to being on the wrong side of history)

Without your explanation of this statement (I'm not quite sure where you're going with it) I should not voice my take on why I find it disturbing.


As far as the first part goes,

Germany's problem was that they were badly outnumbered and badly out-resourced.

This is just ridiculous to me.

Say I live in a neighborhood of about a dozen people. One day I start telling my family that we need more living space(even though we have one of the biggest yards), and that it's the greedy neighbors keeping us bottled up. Then I start telling my neighbors that my rule of the block will last for generations. I decide I'm going to expand my yard, take advantage of my neighbors wife, and enslave his children. Now, I tear down his fence, and when he tries to stop me, I beat him about the head and shoulders with a stick. After 'pacifying' my next door neighbor and chasing off his neighbor friend across the street, I turn my attention to the biggest house of the block, with the biggest yard. With this yard, I'll have the resources necessary to take on the rest of the block, one piece at a time. But after my initial success, my plans are ruined because the block starts organizing against me. Eventually they get as big or bigger sticks than mine, and attack me all at once. Should I expect to receive consolation or sympathy from anyone for my actions? After all, I had a good chance of winning if I had not been out numbered or they had not had sticks like mine. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And back on topic, I usually fly a Thunderbolt, but I think it would be pretty exciting to mount a Fw-190 or Bf-109 and try to take out a large, well defended bomber formation that's escorted by fighters. It was quite interesting to see this thread go tit for tat as all the elements were introduced, this plane countering that one, this tactic against that one. We have the benefit of looking back across 60 years, but the guys flying during this time were learning as they went. A mission I would love to see would be a "Wild Sau"? , where the bombers would fly over a city at night, with campfires placed down below to simulate a burning city, and fighters attacking the sillouehtes. I can't decide which would be more exciting and terrifying, being the bomber, or the attacking fighter. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I love this game......

Good hunting,
Cajun76

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle

Meanwhile, in the 20th century:

BOOM! Yeah, Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up. See this? This is my T-Bolt!! It's has 8 .50cals and 2000lbs+ worth of bombs and rockets. Republic's top of the line. You can find this in the Kick A$$ department. That's right, this sweet baby was made in Farmingdale, Long Island and Evansville, Indiana. Retails for about $82,997.95. It's got a turbo-supercharger, all metal control surfaces with blunt nosed ailerons, and a hair trigger. That's right, shop smart, shop Republic. YOU GOT THAT!? Now I swear, the next one of you primates, E-ven TOUCHES me..... - Anonymous http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

FW190fan
01-14-2004, 09:18 AM
OK, Cajun thanks for explaining.

My comment about resources and Germany was only about their lack of high strength/high temp alloys, high octane fuel, and things like that. Those things are especially needed for more powerful jet engines, higher compression ratios in piston engines, better fuel = better performance etc. Nothing more expressed or implied.

As far as my statement about Germany being on the wrong side of history, well I thought that would be self-explanatory. They were lead by a psychopath that murdered millions of innocent people and invaded other countries, kind of like Stalin and Russia.

E.g. - "they were on the wrong side of history"

Hope that clears things up.

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg

Gibbage1
01-14-2004, 12:26 PM
Look up the K-14 gunsight. They installed them on P-51's and they called it the "ace maker" because it allowed even a green pilot too shoot well on high deflection shots. A gyro would calculate the lead needed to hit the enemy. You put in the range, and size of target, and the crosshair would move on a large reflector to show you were the bulletes will hit given the ammount of G's your pulling and direction. IT worked amazingly well. The US had some great advances in electronics that nobody could match. There was a German version in development, but I dont think it saw any service were as the K-14 did and in great numbers in both US P-51's and even British aircraft.

Gib

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Menthol_moose:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
The 6 centerline grouped guns PLUS the lead computing gunsight will be DEVISTATING. It will allow the accuracy needed too "pick your part" that you would like removed from the enemy's aircraft http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Gib

QUOTE]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Any links about this gunsite, im keen to look up about it. Sounds interesting in pre-transistor days !<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>