PDA

View Full Version : X52



mdewals
04-27-2005, 04:38 AM
Hello,

sorry if asked before but search function doesnt seem to work here.

I ordered a Saitek X52 stick the other day and it should arrive today or tomorrow.

I heard there could be problems with some older versions and IL-2 but there was a "fix"
Could someone post that for me?

Also, if someone has a profile for me, i'd be more than thankfull.

again sorry for making a new topic normally I would use search extensively.

greetings Micha

RM_bizkid
04-27-2005, 07:40 AM
There was a problem with the deadzone in some of the early production models. I have one of the earlier ones with no problems. There was no fix for the firmware deazone other than returning for replacement when the deadzone was excessive. See the Saitek site forums below for more information on serial numbers and profiles. You will need to register with the site to see all the content.

http://www.saitekforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=119

JunkoIfurita
04-27-2005, 04:41 PM
I'm not sure about the later firmware X52s (which lets face it, you'll most probably be getting), but the only thing required to fix an early firmware X52 was to alter the default sensitivity sliders in the joystick panel, inside sturmovik.

In fact, the best solution was to push all the sliders up to 100 (that means that the plane reacts exactly to the way the joystick moves, rather than to a filtered setting). That effectively removes the 'deadzone'.

But, with a newer firmware you may not have to do this. The MOST annoying thing about the old firmware sticks is that if you leave them plugged in too long they 'de-calibrate', and the throttle and the throttle-slider both lose some of their virtual range of movement (and the virtual mouse drags constantly downwards). This drives me nuts, but I'm hoping it's a driver problem because my retailer won't accept an RA, despite the fact that Saitek tech directly told me I should.

----

Chivas
04-28-2005, 10:42 AM
I'm not sure about the later firmware X52s (which lets face it, you'll most probably be getting), but the only thing required to fix an early firmware X52 was to alter the default sensitivity sliders in the joystick panel, inside sturmovik.

In fact, the best solution was to push all the sliders up to 100 (that means that the plane reacts exactly to the way the joystick moves, rather than to a filtered setting). That effectively removes the 'deadzone'.

Wrong...be sure.
The game adjustments only made the stick react faster after its deadzone. It does NOT remove the deadzone. The game can't adjust a joystick input it doesn't see. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

The X52 could be a good stick if you get one without the firmware deadzone. Buy the X52 from a store you can easily return or replace it.

mdewals
04-28-2005, 12:35 PM
hi again,

well got the stick. Love it.
Either my skills are really that bad or I got one of the good one's as I don't notice any problems.

been messing around with my own profile...binding keys to certain buttons.

made my first mistake with it too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif while checking some stuff i accidently pressed the button assigned to wing-fold http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

anyways...the stick feels great...Its better then my 6+ year old MS Sidewinder...
I think I have much better control now of the plane.

cheers Micha

JunkoIfurita
04-28-2005, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by Chivas:
Wrong...be sure.
The game adjustments only made the stick react faster after its deadzone. It does NOT remove the deadzone. The game can't adjust a joystick input it doesn't see. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

The X52 could be a good stick if you get one without the firmware deadzone. Buy the X52 from a store you can easily return or replace it.

Actually, you're wrong. The X52 with the older firmware doesn't have a deadzone,persay. It just has a completely flat response. How do I know this? because if the stick had a 'deadzone' then there'd be a part of the range of movement where the stick doesn't react at all. That is what a deadzone is, and my X52 responds entirely along its access. The problem is that it responds in a less sensitive manner in the early parts of the range of movement, and reacts too much in the latter ranges. Test it out in the windows control panel if you actually have an old firmware stick. Because there are no deadzones, it is relatively simple to compensate with within sturmovik. Yes, I would like a stick that has a range of movement set up in the more conventional manner (as the default profile within sturmovik is designed for), but as my the online store where I bought the stick is refusing a Return Authorisation, I find this current model quite useable. And I certainly don't have any deadzone problems (in fact, with all settings at 100 it's actually a little TOO tweaky. I may have to ease it off a little.

----

JunkoIfurita
04-28-2005, 09:45 PM
Glad you are enjoying the stick, mdewals.

Heh heh, my trademark mistake was to assign the same button in mode 3 to engine start, that I had assigned to map in mode 1. REGULARLY I forgot to change back to mode one after take off and ended up turning off my engine http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

I solved that by assigning the engine toggle to the same button, but with the pinky shift depressed. That way I still get the comfortable posiiton, but i'm not likely to hit it by mistake.

----

Chivas
04-29-2005, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by JunkoIfurita:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
Wrong...be sure.
The game adjustments only made the stick react faster after its deadzone. It does NOT remove the deadzone. The game can't adjust a joystick input it doesn't see. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

The X52 could be a good stick if you get one without the firmware deadzone. Buy the X52 from a store you can easily return or replace it.

Actually, you're wrong. The X52 with the older firmware doesn't have a deadzone,persay. It just has a completely flat response. How do I know this? because if the stick had a 'deadzone' then there'd be a part of the range of movement where the stick doesn't react at all. That is what a deadzone is, and my X52 responds entirely along its access. The problem is that it responds in a less sensitive manner in the early parts of the range of movement, and reacts too much in the latter ranges. Test it out in the windows control panel if you actually have an old firmware stick. Because there are no deadzones, it is relatively simple to compensate with within sturmovik. Yes, I would like a stick that has a range of movement set up in the more conventional manner (as the default profile within sturmovik is designed for), but as my the online store where I bought the stick is refusing a Return Authorisation, I find this current model quite useable. And I certainly don't have any deadzone problems (in fact, with all settings at 100 it's actually a little TOO tweaky. I may have to ease it off a little.

---- </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No you are wrong. Many people have a deadzone where there is absolutely no response for atleast 3/4 of and inch in any direction. NO adjustment of ingame input sliders is going to change that. Just because you don't have a deadzone doesn't mean all the people posting on the Saitek boards are wrong.

mdewals
04-29-2005, 04:36 AM
Originally posted by JunkoIfurita:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
Wrong...be sure.
The game adjustments only made the stick react faster after its deadzone. It does NOT remove the deadzone. The game can't adjust a joystick input it doesn't see. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

The X52 could be a good stick if you get one without the firmware deadzone. Buy the X52 from a store you can easily return or replace it.

Actually, you're wrong. The X52 with the older firmware doesn't have a deadzone,persay. It just has a completely flat response. How do I know this? because if the stick had a 'deadzone' then there'd be a part of the range of movement where the stick doesn't react at all. That is what a deadzone is, and my X52 responds entirely along its access. The problem is that it responds in a less sensitive manner in the early parts of the range of movement, and reacts too much in the latter ranges. Test it out in the windows control panel if you actually have an old firmware stick. Because there are no deadzones, it is relatively simple to compensate with within sturmovik. Yes, I would like a stick that has a range of movement set up in the more conventional manner (as the default profile within sturmovik is designed for), but as my the online store where I bought the stick is refusing a Return Authorisation, I find this current model quite useable. And I certainly don't have any deadzone problems (in fact, with all settings at 100 it's actually a little TOO tweaky. I may have to ease it off a little.

---- </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

how does the pinky thing work btw?

I went to the profiler. Selected mode-1 Pinky

assigned a key to a button and went into the game to test...So ingame I pressed the pinky key (and kept it pressed) and then pushed the other button....but no responds http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

also, I assigned a button to the F1 key and that didnt work either!

Thanks ahead

Micha

JunkoIfurita
04-29-2005, 05:13 AM
Hey Micha,

You're on the right track - but by default the pinky switch is assigned just as a button rather than as a 'shift' key.

Just right click on the pinky switch in the profiler and select 'Shift Button' from the list. Then you're all set.

@MDewels: Whatever man, if you want to be so certain that the stick was unsavable and that you'd been 'screwed by the man' that's up to you. But I talked to the Saitek tech support, too. They were very helpful in fact. When my retailer refused an RA, I asked them exactly what the problem was with the old firmware and how it could be solved. And that was the explanation that Saitek-UK gave me. He even showed me limited technical documents to show exactly what was changed and improved between the two firmwares. And I know for sure there was no hardware 'deadzone', simply an incorrect hardware response curve - the new firmware applies a logarithmic (exponential) response curve (similar to that of most other sticks on the market), whereas the old was simply a straight flat response over the entire x/y axis. When you applied this under the default settings in sturmovik, you got what felt like a deadzone (it didn't respond at all). Why? Because Sturmovik applies a set of settings designed to simulate a WWII aircraft - where unlike the Jet fighters the movement response was slow. On logarithmic sticks, this is barely noticeable (although if you moved everything up to 100 - meaning no filter appled - it'd be WAY to tweaky). But on X52s with the flat response curve, the 'lowered' response in the early range knocked the sticks response to almost zero, feeling like it wasn't responding at all.

Have a look in your input sliders: you'll notice the leftmost sliders are down at 20 or 30, wheras the rightmost ones are almost at 100. It's like applying a response curve twice: you knock out all the sensitivity.

But hey, far be it from me to know anything. Or the guys who made the stick and freely admitted their mistake. You obviously are right: after all, you're the consumer.

----

Chivas
04-29-2005, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by JunkoIfurita:
Hey Micha,

You're on the right track - but by default the pinky switch is assigned just as a button rather than as a 'shift' key.

Just right click on the pinky switch in the profiler and select 'Shift Button' from the list. Then you're all set.

@MDewels: Whatever man, if you want to be so certain that the stick was unsavable and that you'd been 'screwed by the man' that's up to you. But I talked to the Saitek tech support, too. They were very helpful in fact. When my retailer refused an RA, I asked them exactly what the problem was with the old firmware and how it could be solved. And that was the explanation that Saitek-UK gave me. He even showed me limited technical documents to show exactly what was changed and improved between the two firmwares. And I know for sure there was no hardware 'deadzone', simply an incorrect hardware response curve - the new firmware applies a logarithmic (exponential) response curve (similar to that of most other sticks on the market), whereas the old was simply a straight flat response over the entire x/y axis. When you applied this under the default settings in sturmovik, you got what felt like a deadzone (it didn't respond at all). Why? Because Sturmovik applies a set of settings designed to simulate a WWII aircraft - where unlike the Jet fighters the movement response was slow. On logarithmic sticks, this is barely noticeable (although if you moved everything up to 100 - meaning no filter appled - it'd be WAY to tweaky). But on X52s with the flat response curve, the 'lowered' response in the early range knocked the sticks response to almost zero, feeling like it wasn't responding at all.

Have a look in your input sliders: you'll notice the leftmost sliders are down at 20 or 30, wheras the rightmost ones are almost at 100. It's like applying a response curve twice: you knock out all the sensitivity.

But hey, far be it from me to know anything. Or the guys who made the stick and freely admitted their mistake. You obviously are right: after all, you're the consumer.

----

So its not a deadzone, just a very slow reaction. LMFAO. So they changed the firmware to fix the problem you say isn't there. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Yes the sliders work well. I've been using them since beta testing IL-2 in 2001. They worked very well for MS sticks and Cougars, but unfortunately the sliders couldn't adjust an input thats not sent from the early X52's.

But I know its all good in your world.

mdewals
04-29-2005, 09:34 AM
thanks!! pinky shift now working

btw....Micha = Mdewals http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I think you ment Chivas...

anyways, can we stop the discussion on the X52?
there are faulty ones and good ones that

Chivas
04-29-2005, 10:23 AM
Mdewals
The X52 is a good stick and throttle with an easy to use software control input. In other threads I've suggested that people buy from a local retailer that you can easily return or replace the X52. There were many early X52's with deadzones, off center Hall sensors, and other problems. I just get pissed when others suggest we don't know what a deadzone is or how to use the Saitek or IL-2 input sliders. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DRAGON_2_GO
04-29-2005, 11:16 AM
Just one little question of an outsider http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
Has the X52 got a force feedback? I got a Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 and I was sort of looking for a new input system. Should have rudder pedals and so on. Will a X 52 fit in in such a concept?

mdewals
04-29-2005, 12:36 PM
No feedback but I never liked it on a stick anyways....use it on my wheel though

WOLFMondo
04-29-2005, 02:48 PM
I've had 2. One was the old version so I sent it back and one was a newer version with a completely different problem so I sent that back.

Throttle is nice but the stick is a rubbish. The connection between the stick and throttle dies as well when you reboot, you'll need to unplug it and plug it back in again when you reboot. Eventually it will wear out.

Got a CH Fighter stick and pedals instead. They rock.

Stanger_361st
04-29-2005, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
I've had 2. One was the old version so I sent it back and one was a newer version with a completely different problem so I sent that back.

Throttle is nice but the stick is a rubbish. The connection between the stick and throttle dies as well when you reboot, you'll need to unplug it and plug it back in again when you reboot. Eventually it will wear out.

Got a CH Fighter stick and pedals instead. They rock.
I had the very same problem until I changed the usb hub the joystick was using. I got it alone on one hub with all the power source going to it alone.

Te_Vigo
04-30-2005, 08:40 AM
I'm not to sure if I'm one of the lucky early users or not..
serial# ZS00225002.
I got it last Christmas in Oz and ever since day one the stick was fine and a perect (for me anyway) substitute for my old MS FFB2.
When I first plugged it in using the MS FFB2 settings in game, it was very twitchy, very sensitive. I tried all sliders at 100% and the sensituvity was out the window, so I settled down to starting off at 40 and sloping up to 95.

The only thing I had to do was to open the deadzone a tad in the stick's control panel, to remove the very slight sloppies that are present when the stick is centered.
I run it with one USB 1.1 port and IRQ for the stick and a separate IRQ for my TIR, which is on a USB 2.0 port through a powered hub and disabled all unused USB IRQs

1.JaVA_Hornet
04-30-2005, 06:37 PM
You also have a stick with the old firmware like
me.

But I am very satisfied now with the stick.

Te_Vigo
04-30-2005, 09:57 PM
Mmm...thanks for that.

but why none of the slow response/ huge throw problems as others have described?
Like I offered before...right from the word go, it was supersensitive and very, very responsive.
It behaved like a stick should.