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El Turo
03-28-2004, 02:04 PM
Seriously.

I'm a bit disappointed to learn that many of the instruments in IL2FB don't actually function?

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

What's up with that, and are there plans to fix this??

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
Amidst morning clouds
Fork-tailed devil hunts its prey
Lightning strikes, süsse tr¤ume.

[This message was edited by H_Butcher on Mon March 29 2004 at 09:26 AM.]

El Turo
03-28-2004, 02:04 PM
Seriously.

I'm a bit disappointed to learn that many of the instruments in IL2FB don't actually function?

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

What's up with that, and are there plans to fix this??

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
Amidst morning clouds
Fork-tailed devil hunts its prey
Lightning strikes, süsse tr¤ume.

[This message was edited by H_Butcher on Mon March 29 2004 at 09:26 AM.]

VVS-Manuc
03-28-2004, 03:24 PM
No. Sad to say, but FB is NO flight sim... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

pdog1
03-28-2004, 04:19 PM
You must be special type of moron.
Of course the gauges work... shesh

VW-IceFire
03-28-2004, 05:36 PM
Most of the guages on most of the cockpits do work. Alot of them are very subtle but they are there and they do work.

I'd say the vast majority of the important ones work as advertised. There are some planes and some cockpits with some stuff that are of slightly less importance (slightly) that don't work.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

El Turo
03-29-2004, 10:24 AM
Pdog1, ironically, your ignorance speaks volumes.

Yes, I realize the altimeters, airspeed indicators, boost/pressure gauges "work" as well as RPM and some others. I say "work" because I don't believe they all have accurate representation of the true measurements in all cases. But, it seems that many compasses, some *fuel* gauges among other items aren't functional? It feels a little bit cheesy to zoom in on the instrument panel and see a bunch of static needles/gauges.

Granted, I'd rather have mostly-finished models to fly around than none, but I'm curious if the rest of the instrumentation is going to be made fully functional?

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
Amidst morning clouds
Fork-tailed devil hunts its prey
Lightning strikes, süsse tr¤ume.

[This message was edited by H_Butcher on Mon March 29 2004 at 11:02 AM.]

BuzzU
03-29-2004, 11:22 AM
A list of what gauges you're talking about might help.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buzz
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/anderson9.jpg

chris455
03-29-2004, 11:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pdog1:
You must be special type of moron.
Of course the gauges work... shesh<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

Butcher you're right. For a complete list of the gauges in the P-47 ALONE that don't work, see my post "Oleg did you know 40% of instruments don't work" on this forum.

Sadly there are too many examples (like our friend Pdog1 above) of people in the community that forget the "flight sim" aspect of IL2 (and their manners, it seems).

Glad at least to know I'm not alone on the instrument issue. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
S!

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

El Turo
03-29-2004, 12:00 PM
Buzzu,

Sorry but I don't have IL2FB handy at the moment to do a checklist right this second.. but there are plenty of non-functional instruments and in more than one cockpit.

Chris455's P47 thread is a nice example if you like.

I was just a little suprised that a simulation that is hailed as the most advanced/realistic sim around doesn't have fully functional cockpits is all.

Again, I'd much rather have partially completed aircraft to fly than none... but I was curious to know if a completion time-line was in the works?

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
Amidst morning clouds
Fork-tailed devil hunts its prey
Lightning strikes, süsse tr¤ume.

ZG77_Lignite
03-29-2004, 01:48 PM
Actually I don't think you should hold your breath Mr. Butcher. Il2FB models the most complex guages available in any commercial prop sim to date imho (I haven't flown Xplane, Fly!, or Flight Unlimited series, so I can't compare with them). If you can name one sim that has a more comprehensively modeled system of engine modeling, I'm all ears. Please Don't mention the CFS/MSFS series, their guages may 'work' but there are no consequences modeled with them (so they could read anything at all, they do not effect the pilot in any way), EAW had reasonable consequences tied into the engine gauges, but nothing near the details to compare with current Il2FB, Janes WWII Fighters made a good attempt, but did nothing more with 7 aircraft than Il2FB does now with 120+, much less in fact.

If your wondering why the vacuum pressure guage doesn't work, its because there is no vacuum pressure module programmed into the engine management system. Same with carb heat, battery voltage, hydraulic pressure, cylinder head temperature, spark advance, cable tension, the list is very long. But to expect all of these systems to be retro modeled into all of these aircraft is a bit unrealistic, and overly demanding, imho. The stuff we do have is at least as complex and realistic as anything else seen to date in a prop driven flight sim, and imho much more advanced.

Look for more complex details like these in the upcoming Battle Of Britain, and make requests you'd like to see. Oleg is very receptive to this type of stuff, especially at this stage (BoB), just look at the Il-2 series (surely you remember the clamor for more complex engine management from the Il-2 days, for example).

El Turo
03-29-2004, 02:15 PM
I suppose when I read that items such as boost pressure don't read out with correct figures on the instruments and personally take notice that some compasses and other non-critical-but-semi-important gauges seem to be non-op... I'm forced to ask questions about the plausibility and/or intended inclusion of such things in the greater scheme of IL2FB.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

If these things are coming in BoB or otherwise, that's great.. I was really only trying to establish that at least this is somewhere remotely on the "to-do" list and that people were already aware of it.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
Amidst morning clouds
Fork-tailed devil hunts its prey
Lightning strikes, süsse tr¤ume.

BuzzU
03-29-2004, 02:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by H_Butcher:
Buzzu,

Sorry but I don't have IL2FB handy at the moment to do a checklist right this second.. but there are plenty of non-functional instruments and in more than one cockpit.

Chris455's P47 thread is a nice example if you like.

I was just a little suprised that a simulation that is hailed as the most advanced/realistic sim around doesn't have fully functional cockpits is all.

Again, I'd much rather have partially completed aircraft to fly than none... but I was curious to know if a completion time-line was in the works?

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
Amidst morning clouds
Fork-tailed devil hunts its prey
Lightning strikes, süsse tr¤ume.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I assume you're directing your thread at Oleg since that's what this forum is all about. I would be really surprised if you get a responce from Oleg without a specific list of gauges. That was my point, and I feel the thread would be more effective if that list was in your first post.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buzz
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/anderson9.jpg

pdog1
03-30-2004, 06:48 PM
don't be infidel, be better pilot... don't need those gauges anyway and im sure compass work on p47.. and since all the boost stuff is done automaticaly you don't need it, only with planes super charge stage 1/2 you do manually the gauge works and you see needle move on russian planes and stuka and others that have manual boost/pressure setting... p47 is auto that why it don't "WORK"
idiots... fly the Messer, all gauges work than crap american planes with 40% no work gauge which don't pertain to FB game not real plane

BuzzU
03-30-2004, 07:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pdog1:
don't be infidel, be better pilot... don't need those gauges anyway and im sure compass work on p47.. and since all the boost stuff is done automaticaly you don't need it, only with planes super charge stage 1/2 you do manually the gauge works and you see needle move on russian planes and stuka and others that have manual boost/pressure setting... p47 is auto that why it don't "WORK"
idiots... fly the Messer, all gauges work than crap american planes with 40% no work gauge which don't pertain to FB game not real plane<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Still mad you lost the war huh? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buzz
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/anderson9.jpg

chris455
03-30-2004, 08:47 PM
Stupidity this intense doesn't just happen.....he had to STUDY for this.................... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pdog1:
don't be infidel, be better pilot... don't need those gauges anyway and im sure compass work on p47.. and since all the boost stuff is done automaticaly you don't need it, only with planes super charge stage 1/2 you do manually the gauge works and you see needle move on russian planes and stuka and others that have manual boost/pressure setting... p47 is auto that why it don't "WORK"
idiots... fly the Messer, all gauges work than crap american planes with 40% no work gauge which don't pertain to FB game not real plane<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

crazyivan1970
03-30-2004, 09:35 PM
Butcher, please provide list of gauges that don`t work. Submit list to il2beta@1c.ru - that`s the only way mate.

Pdog, one more personal attack and you go on 1 week vacation. Guys, please edit your threads, do we really need garbage in the valid issue? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

LLv34_Flanker
03-31-2004, 01:30 AM
S!

Most of the gauges "work" or at least show something related to what is happening. For example the boost-gauge on Bf109 worked before as it should, but is now again a "throttle position indicator" showing incorrect boost value. It would of course be great if they all worked as intended, but I guess too late for FB to achieve that. Maybe in BoB we'll see correctly working gauges.

---------------------------

Flanker
1.Lentue p¤¤llikk¶ / TO
Lentolaivue 34

"Let Chaos entvine on defenseless soil!"
~Dimmu Borgir~

WUAF_Co_Hero
03-31-2004, 02:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pdog1:
don't be infidel, be better pilot... don't need those gauges anyway and im sure compass work on p47.. and since all the boost stuff is done automaticaly you don't need it, only with planes super charge stage 1/2 you do manually the gauge works and you see needle move on russian planes and stuka and others that have manual boost/pressure setting... p47 is auto that why it don't "WORK"
idiots... fly the Messer, all gauges work than crap american planes with 40% no work gauge which don't pertain to FB game not real plane<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As fun as it is to see you make an *** of yourself Pdog... he actaully has a very valid complaint (unlike a lot of the crap that floats around these boards). Many gauges in total, just simply don't work at all, or correctly in FB. I'm sure it's being worked on all the time, but really: I would think it would be an integral part of the sim...

As far as him needing to be a better pilot, and how you are so wise for only needing a compass: I would like to hear your suggestion for flying the FW-190 D9, w/ MW-50. let me explain::

The MW-50 tank on this bird, is between 30 and 40 minutes long (forgot which). The fuel loadout will last about 1 1/2 to two hours.

Now, assuming MW-50 is an important functionality of this a/c (as it replaces the increased fuel injection of the earlier model), without knowing how much MW-50 you have left (and yes, there is a gauge that shows it, it's just broken, as it always has been), how would you suggest one keeps from burning their engine?
Oh, and "Don't use it too often" is a stupid suggestion, because the gauge is there so that you can use it whenever the hell you feel like it, without worrying about frying your engine via lack of critical information.

Please, enjoy this food for thought.

Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day...

Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life.

pdog1
03-31-2004, 06:02 AM
use a clock and figure out when the engine fries... so you enable MW50 within that time perdiod, not brain surgey don't have to look at gauge, besides in combat you will really stay looking at gauges you will die in 2 seconds.
Adapt, overcome, succeed. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
well then maybe "CEM" is to advanced for FB...which guess what, ubi doesn't care about anymore.

WUAF_Co_Hero
03-31-2004, 06:18 PM
Call me crazy, but I believe the point of gauges, is to give people accesible functionality.

Not everyone finds "Timing" the MW-50 tank, a very adequate solution... IT SHOULD BE IN THE PLANE in the first place...

The fact that we would have to resort to a stopwatch is rediculous.

Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day...

Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life.

El Turo
03-31-2004, 07:01 PM
I haven't continued this thread because I unfortunately don't have the required free time needed to catalog and itemize all the instruments properly..

But knowing there are others out there that are interested in and are actively pursuing the matter is enough comfort for me that something may be done about it at a later date.

Pdog1, Hero is correct on all points. You can't be expected to fly an aircraft to the edge of the performance envelope if you can't reasonably discern where the edge of that envelope lies.

That's aside from the fact that for the flight SIMULATION community.. accuracy and immersion in the illusion of flying a warbird is a big chunk of the interest and love affair with such software.

Best,

~T.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
Amidst morning clouds
Fork-tailed devil hunts its prey
Lightning strikes, süsse tr¤ume.

WUAF_Co_Hero
03-31-2004, 07:04 PM
This is exactally true. I will look up the precise naming of the instrument on the D-9, and where it lies, so that I may be able to submit it to the team, and have them fix it (as I'm told, that will be the only way).

Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day...

Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life.

03-31-2004, 07:31 PM
Just noticed this thread. Here's an incomplete list of gages that could use some work:

1. Manifold pressure gages in US planes. (They work, but they don't read right).

2. Oil temp gages in general peg at around 120C. If your engine gets any hotter than 120 you have no way of knowing HOW MUCH hotter.

2-and-a-half (more temperature stuff). No CHT or EGT gages. Engines are immune to shock overcooling on low power descents.

2-and-three-quarters (engine physics): Setting mixture excessively rich and blowing brown smoke does not cause permanent fouling or loss of performance... as soon as you lean the engine magically blows itself clean. Also, setting mixture excessively lean at high power settings does not cause detonation.

3. The AGL altimeter in the Bf 110 is broken. The needle just flops around.

4. Oil pressure is flaky in every aircraft. This is probably a fundamental limitation of the engine model.

5. Radio navigation gage on german aircraft is present, but non functional. I'm no expert but it's probably a FuG 16Y or FuG 125. Instrument landing works for the He 111.... why can't we have a functional FuG16Y so fighters can fly instrument intercepts?

6. IFF and tail warning radar is not modelled in any aircraft.

7. No indicators for cowl/radiator position.

8. Altimeter is always 100% accurate with no barometric drift.

9. All aircraft are modelled with one big fuel tank. Again, probably a limitation of the sim.

WUAF_Co_Hero
03-31-2004, 11:03 PM
Agh, If I could only describe the heartake of the fuel tank problem. I think Oleg has commented on this in the past though, and I doubt it will be changed in the lifespan of
IL-2.

Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day...

Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life.

pdog1
04-01-2004, 04:54 AM
the fiat cr42 has the cowl indicators... near the throttle, it depends on the modeler on the pit or if the plane actually had them...l

Oleg_Maddox
04-01-2004, 05:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by H_Butcher:
Seriously.

I'm a bit disappointed to learn that many of the instruments in IL2FB don't actually function?

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

What's up with that, and are there plans to fix this??

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
Amidst morning clouds
Fork-tailed devil hunts its prey
Lightning strikes, süsse tr¤ume.

[This message was edited by H_Butcher on Mon March 29 2004 at 09:26 AM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. I think some instruments like fuel gauges all works, but you don't know how.
Ask other to help to understand.

2. When we will model the sim of only one plane them we may consider to make all the gauges work, as well as full start procedure for just one this plane. I hope that you understand why. There are so many aircraft, that the main things is to do much more important things then the work of gauges that really you will never use or which corresponds to the equipment that has very secondary neccessarity for the pilot (or the device simply even not modelled).
Sayin this I will confirm that you'll never meet other sim that has such great amount of work going from one small team of developers with such great attention to details.

Thats all I would like to say.

Aeronautico
04-01-2004, 05:42 AM
Hello Oleg, welcome back!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

A.

--------------------
Airplanes are now built to carry a pilot and a dog in the cockpit: the pilot's job is
to feed the dog, and the dog's job is to bite the pilot if he touches anything...

- Arlen Rens, Lockheed Martin test pilot

Oleg_Maddox
04-01-2004, 05:44 AM
And another one notice... as more we give more users ask from us, and even never think about how much we spend time and forces... Just ask and ask... and as more we give for free more ask for free like it should be always...

I would repeat... It is easy to make all things working on one aircraft sim. Just think about it please.

Oleg_Maddox
04-01-2004, 05:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VVS-Manuc:
No. Sad to say, but FB is NO flight sim... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Isn't better to go to other sim for you if you think so?

buz13
04-01-2004, 06:03 AM
I did notice that (P38 I believe) compass did not work. That is one very important piece of equipment...especially when flying without a map. No matter which way I turned the aircraft the compass remained stationary. Also some compasses do not swing until after the aircraft has steadied up on course so that you cannot judge where your aircraft is pointing at any time during a turn only after you complete the turn....this is not ture of all aircraft. It's strange with a sim of this quality for a compass to be non-functonal..never remember seeing that in any other flight sim...but then I have a bad memory. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

WhiskeyBravo
04-01-2004, 07:12 AM
"I did notice that (P38 I believe) compass did not work. That is one very important piece of equipment...especially when flying without a map. No matter which way I turned the aircraft the compass remained stationary. Also some compasses do not swing until after the aircraft has steadied up on course so that you cannot judge where your aircraft is pointing at any time during a turn only after you complete the turn....this is not ture of all aircraft. It's strange with a sim of this quality for a compass to be non-functonal..never remember seeing that in any other flight sim...but then I have a bad memory"

I think you'll find the P38 compass works OK - I'm pretty sure that what you are seeing is the normal effect of a compass 'catching up' with itself after making turns. Also the P38 has a repeater compass - the single solid pointer points to the next waypoint, the 2 parallel lined pointer show your current heading (this may be the other way around as I speak from memory at the mo - will check later)

Take another look and see what you think!

WB

El Turo
04-01-2004, 09:44 AM
Oleg,

With all due respect, when you said:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>1. I think some instruments like fuel gauges all works, but you don't know how<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This just simply isn't true. If you leave your aircraft spawned in on the runway the fuel gauge aparently actually indicates less and less fuel in the tank... even without the engine running.

That doesn't seem to indicate a "working" gauge to me.

BTW, I LOVE the sim! Don't mistake passion for accuracy and extra gizmos for a negative opinion of your product. I chose to believe that it is an indicator of a strong love of the game that people get so bent out of shape on such trivial items.

!S

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
Amidst morning clouds
Fork-tailed devil hunts its prey
Lightning strikes, süsse tr¤ume.

crazyivan1970
04-01-2004, 09:48 AM
Manuc stop trolling, i`m really getting tired of your cheese comments, i meant it.

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

VVS-Manuc
04-01-2004, 12:39 PM
@crazyivan http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

[This message was edited by VVS-Manuc on Thu April 01 2004 at 12:02 PM.]

WUAF_Co_Hero
04-01-2004, 12:45 PM
Oleg, if you are still looking into this post (as I hope you are), I would like you to look at ONE gauge. If you still don't feel it's neccesary to fix, that's fine, but it's pretty important.

The MW-50 gauge on the FW-190 D-9 ('45).

Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day...

Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life.

boohaa
04-02-2004, 06:19 PM
Ok Oleg,you got me wondering now.You said

"When we will model the sim of only one plane them we may consider to make all the gauges work, as well as full start procedure for just one this plane."

Now what does that exactly mean http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif I know that BOB will not be a one plane sim so will that still not have all the gauges working?I can understand that we dont need ALL the gauges working but BOB will have more than what we have now...right?

Edit http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gifI also would love for a one plane sim http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gifImagine buying a Yak3 modeled super realistic to add to your collection http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gifSorta like what "Racing Legends" is trying to do by modeling cars super realistic and they wil sell one at a time!!