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View Full Version : RE. Way O.T Drop the bomb???



WilhelmSchulz.-
09-14-2005, 02:55 PM
Ok so I see that I lost. This post was about geting opions about the world, and only a small fraction suport me. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif You are right there are a lot of inacints there but its hard to tell with gorila warfair. Well thanks for the replies. http://fourms.ubi.com/groupee/fourms/a/tpc/857101043/m/645100653
P.S why are all the political dabates shut down???

Kaleun1961
09-14-2005, 03:51 PM
I think the intention is not to allow people to get fighting with each other here over issues which are not relevant to the game. Political topics invariably lead to debate, then name calling and then to all-out flaming and hostilities.

Baldricks_Mate
09-14-2005, 05:20 PM
I can see a darkly humourous side:

We are playing a sim in which we would cause massive casualties...

to civilians...

for a side that committed unbelievable atrocities generally...

that was convinced of its rightness in genocide...

and would have used the bomb, no worries, if it had it...

Ouch!

There but for the grace of whatever God you believe in go we all...

CannonFodda_99
09-14-2005, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by Baldricks_Mate:


and would have used the bomb, no worries, if it had it...

Ouch!

There but for the grace of whatever God you believe in go we all...

Apparantly Hitler wasn't too keen on an atomic bomb. A theory at the time was that an atomic exlosion would cause all the hydrogen atoms in the atmosphere to ignite... He wouldn't have liked that very much despite how scrambled his brains were http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Cannon

Kaleun1961
09-14-2005, 09:01 PM
What is scary to ponder is nuclear weapons ending up in the hands of individuals with an agenda, as opposed to being owned by a country.

paulhager
09-14-2005, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by CannonFodda_99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Baldricks_Mate:


and would have used the bomb, no worries, if it had it...

Ouch!

There but for the grace of whatever God you believe in go we all...

Apparantly Hitler wasn't too keen on an atomic bomb. A theory at the time was that an atomic exlosion would cause all the hydrogen atoms in the atmosphere to ignite... He wouldn't have liked that very much despite how scrambled his brains were http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Cannon </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not so. Germany started out with a lead in nuclear fission in 1938 (the work of Hahn, Strassman, and Meitner - the latter being a female Jew got no credit and barely escaped Germany). Germany's anti-Semitism meant that the best and brightest physicists in Europe, who were disproportionately Jewish, left - a major brain drain. Werner Heisenberg was on hand - he wasn't Jewish - and one of the finest physicists in the world. However, there were a number of mistakes made, some by Heisenberg, that were critical. A major mistake (not by Heisenberg) had to do with the a miscalculation of the neutron absorption cross-section of graphite. It was concluded that graphite was unsuitable as a moderator which required that heavy water be used. Heavy water became something of a bottleneck for the Germans. The first nuclear reactor was built in the U.S. and used plentiful graphite as the moderator.

There is some ambiguity as to the role of Heisenberg. He claimed after the war that he steered the German nuclear program into unprofitable directions. There is ample reason to doubt this claim although it may not neccessarily be rejected out of hand.

Bottom line is that Germany never came anywhere close to mobilizing the resources the U.S. did to make the A-bomb. Arguably, Germany never had enough skilled manpower to do the job.

Baldricks_Mate
09-14-2005, 09:15 PM
Cool with me; all valid points. Those that do not seek to understand history are condemmed to repeat it.

I just saw the link between the original thread of "Way OT Drop The Bomb???", the comments there, it being locked, then this thread. I found it darkly humourous that the topic was locked for its content and comments (maybe to aviod offending sensibilities) but what side are we playing on and what outcomes are we modelling when we play this game?

Oh, thats right it's just a game..

a santitised game...

silly me...

(wanders off in a babble of confusion)

paulhager
09-14-2005, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Baldricks_Mate:
Cool with me; all valid points. Those that do not seek to understand history are condemmed to repeat it.

I just saw the link between the original thread of "Way OT Drop The Bomb???", the comments there, it being locked, then this thread. I found it darkly humourous that the topic was locked for its content and comments (maybe to aviod offending sensibilities) but what side are we playing on and what outcomes are we modelling when we play this game?

Oh, thats right it's just a game..

a santitised game...

silly me...

(wanders off in a babble of confusion)

The other thread was properly removed.

However, I do think that discussions of WW II history not directly related to the game are perfectly appropriate.

Discussion of Germany and the bomb has come up before as well as German Wunderwaffen development and how Germany might have won the war. People who play historical simulations are - surprise - usually interested in history. Playing the "what-if" game is a time-honored pastime of history buffs.

AS you note, we play the bad guys. One of the things that made DAS BOOT compelling for me was that it was impossible not to identify with the characters, even though they were the enemy, serving a monstrous regime.

Sometimes its fun to be the bad guy...

Gunnersman
09-14-2005, 10:35 PM
Yea,
I was wondering when your post was going to get shut down. I jumped in early to get my 2 cents in and bailed. I knew where that one was going.
I, frankly, hate political debates sometimes, with people I dont know. All too often it will get emotional and then the "conversation" gets nowhere. Which is the whole point; to take the conversation somewhere and hopefully get something accomplised.
I think some people just like to hear themselves talk...or in the case of the forum, see themselves...type, maybe(?)
Dont we all? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Baldricks_Mate
09-15-2005, 01:40 AM
Quite right! WW2 discussions, tactic sharing etc are appropriate here.

That thread was a bomb waiting to go off (best pun I can come up with); I do not and would never support such a proposition for action.

Obviously forums generally bring encounters with people well outside our own world and paradigms. I saw a darkly humourous link between the acceptability of sim role playing mass destruction then the outrage expressed over a personal suggestion of massed destruction by a bomb.

Neither can be made "real". One is a game, one a personal proposition. Neither can be acted out in real life by the people involved. What bothers and amuses me is the mindset.

What helps keeps us safe is not censure, legislation or even freedom of speech. It is the widespread idea that this level of destruction is always unthinakble and unacceptable. When we allow and use lower levels of violence every day in our society are we undermining what is currently unthinkable?

We need philosopical discussions, not political dogma. Politics leads to polarisation. Polarisation becomes vapourisation. Always.

But I could be wrong...