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womenfly
10-04-2005, 03:03 PM

tagTaken2
10-04-2005, 07:45 PM
It would be good if people could give a reason why they hate/like it- not that this would be the best place to get a balanced opinion http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
I'm thinking about buying it just for the fact it supports 6dof. But if it's stuttery, or with rubbish modelling...

diomedes33
10-04-2005, 10:21 PM
I'll try to give an unbiased oppinion, but after playing Il2 for 3+ years I don't know if that's possible.

I pre-ordered the game willing to give it a fair shot. I was really looking forward to it because I was told it has a very good campaign engine, on par with Falcon4 but different approach. Knowing that this was a revamp of an old game, I wasn't expecting great graphics, but decent modeling and stable platform. After playing it for a few days, I had to deal with the fps bottle neck that nearly everyone had. I never had a problem with CTD's. Shockwave came out with patches really close to realease that addressed these issues. It fixed the fps problem for me, but introduced more CTD's then I had before. Some people really like and enjoy this game. If you visit their forums on shockwave, you'll see many saying how good this sim is.

Pros:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> Supports Trackir3 6DOF, it does this really well
<LI> Clickable pits, works for the most part, only useful in landings and takeoffs
<LI> Flight models seem pretty good to me, nothing behaves aberantly compared to PF, MSFS or X-Plane
<LI> Comms system and atmosphere are outstanding, its very easy to suspend disbelief for a couple hours
[/list]

Cons:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> The link between the FM and the graphics are odd. Planes fly nose down or at funny angles. I can't put my finger on it most of the time, it just looks unnatural.
<LI> Sound has some issues, fly-by's you can hear the flyby sound as well as the ambient engine noise. It also has some really nice flyby sounds with real audio, but gets stale quick. I much prefer the pf sound engine with a good sound card.
<LI> Graphics are better than the original, but not up to today's standards. If you were expecting them to be, you have your expectations way to high for this software. It was a updated game, not a new one.
<LI> A lot of bugs, graphics glitches, some gauges don't work, etc ...
[/list]

As a whole, I think this game has a lot of potential. The development team shows that they really care and are willing to better their product. They have as much interaction on their forums as Oleg once did here. The game is very unpolished and IMHO shouldn't have been released in this state. If you're looking for something new and have some patients I'd say go for it. However, if it were me, I'd wait till the smooth out more of the bugs.

marcocomparato
10-04-2005, 10:57 PM
if you have a very hi-end system (and i do...thats right) the game can be jacked up and looks pretty ****ed good and runs sweet. As good as FS2004 skies and ground, if u ask me. very immersive. Im really i glad i bought it. if you have the horsepower, its a good buy. but its DirectX and only OpenGL (and Glide in its day) has the precision and crispness that a flight sim requires.

trumper
10-05-2005, 02:25 AM
I want to buy it and have been keeping a close eye on the BoB 11 forum on SimHq http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f..._point=0;DaysPrune=0 (http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=130;hardset=0;start_poi nt=0;DaysPrune=0)
It seems there are problems BUT the developement teams are really trying to work on the problems.
I had my fingers burned with the original B o B which never really was reliable but i would love this new version to be all it can.
Theres definately room for both sims and i wont join an IL2 V Bob debate as i feel the flight sim genre needs good competition and theres room to fly both.
Good luck to them,i would like to see some postings on here soon saying how good it is.

choxaway
10-05-2005, 05:43 AM
I owned the original and rapidly became disillusioned as it was so bug-ridden and impossible to fly that it ended up gathering dust on my shelf, so I was cautious about buying a newer version of the same game, but figured for only 18 from Play.com it was worth a re-visit. It soon became apparent that it had major problems but happily the developing team responded very quickly with a first patch that virtually resolved the CTDs, soon followed by a second that ironed out the slow FPS issues and other phenomena reported by the various purchasers. The developers haunt the Shockwave BoB forums and are quick to respond with any requests for help or advice. They constantly demand feedback and system specs where some folk have differing problems to others, go away to work out how to resolve these issues and come back with answers or suggestions to try. They take any verbal flak thrown at them with good grace and respond with politely worded answers, not excuses. I'm impressed with their 'after-sales' service.

The game is infinitely moddable; aircraft skins, scenery, sounds, modifications to aircraft suspension dynamics - we all suffered from the overly firm spit/hurri suspension that made the traditional landing bounce a bit of a joke, but now we can land with just one or two minor bounces after adjusting the suspension's damping effect. It's now running really smoothly and my recently purchased TrackIR3+Vector expansion is worth every penny just to be able to lean forward to inspect gauges or look through the sights, look over my shoulder, sit up in my seat to look over the nose, open cockpit and lean out to one side to check runway positioning etc. - in my opinion a vital purchase if you really want to feel totally involved in the flying experience.

Back to the game - the FM is, from all accounts, pretty accurate and I've had to re-learn the business of taking off and landing. I'm reasonably confident once up there - it's the before and after bits that are so downright tricky. There are threads describing how to modify the suspension damping as the traditional spitfire/hurricane bounce upon landing was way over done, but now I'm managing to take off and land in each without too many accidents. This is the first sim where I've taken off, done some cicuits and then suddenly genuinely felt desperately alone and insecure up there in an aircraft that twitches and jitters in the strong sidewinds; clouds are building up and I'm none too certain whether I'm ever going to get back down safely again. Daft, as it's only a practice session and you know it's not real, but you do feel just like a novice fighter pilot who's shortly going to be fighting an experienced enemy as well as still getting to grips with the business of flying this twitchy and noisy machine. Quite demanding, to say the least and a far cry from IL2's rather gentle (by comparison) flying experience. IL2's way easier to fly and in particular take off and land, but BoB2 does it for me in the gibbering-heap department. I felt scared the first time I flew with my squadron and saw the sky filled with hundreds of aircraft, which is quite absurd when I think about it.
The sounds are superb and anyone unhappy with the IL2 'merlin' will be overjoyed listening to BoB's genuine sampled engine sounds. Pure music to the ears. The genuine flyby sounds are awesome with all aircraft, friend or foe.

So what's a typical flying experience like? My first mission was like being thrown in at the deep end. The nearer we got to the hundreds of aircraft up ahead, the more nervous I became. When in the thick of battle and aircraft were coming from all directions, I actually ducked down in my chair as a 109 missed my canopy by inches, its raucous engine exhaust snarling viciously as it jerked its throttles open to bank away sharply. Another aircraft followed immediately - I ducked again (how daft is that?) but this time a familiar merlin sang sweetly to me as it soared after the intruder, guns blazing. I'm trying to listen to radio commands, continually looking around, above and behind me to watch for enemy fighters, sweaty hand grappling with the stick as I try not to collide with my own wingmen whilst at the same time being told to 'tighten up back there'. A huge formation of Heinkels - dozens of the blighters, is approaching just below me and to the left. My squadron leader calls out telling everyone to break and 'choose your own target, but watch out for snappers above'. I've already had one of them nearly knock my cockpit canopy off, so I'm watching, I'm watching! I grip tighter on the stick, bank over and charge the bombers. The first group grows larger through the glass, but the spit's twitching around a bit in my over enthusiastic dive and I can't quite get a bomber steady in my sights. I lean forward in my seat and concentrate hard but before I can fire I hear someone yelling a warning but too late - a 109's guns have caught me from behind and my forward canopy's got an omminous starry crack where the gunsight should be. I jerk back on the stick and desperately try to evade my attacker and the Heinkels which are suddenly all around me, their engines droning and their gunners can be heard popping off at my audacious presence, one or two of their bullets pinging and thudding my wings. As if I don't have enough to think about, my engine coughs and splutters a little and the whole machine's shaking rather alarmingly, plus there's some dark smoke coming from somewhere. My controls have gone very stiff and panicking a bit now (warm sensation in my nether regions) I call out a mayday and the tower immediately responds with directions for my nearest available airfield . . .

I've lost height now and can't see anyone, friend or foe, although I can faintly hear some urgent calls for help coming from somewhere. Opening the canopy and feeling hopelessly alone I look around desperately for anything that resembles the airfield. I've called the tower again and been given a vector and wind direction information. The reassuring sound of the controller's steady voice calms me a little but the engine's running really rough now and the aircraft is twitching and yawing rather alarmingly. I can just make out what looks like the airfield just off to my right so I ask for permission to land and am told I can 'pancake', but I'm seriously struggling to maintain level flight. However I drop the wheels and the aircraft shudders violently, so I lower flaps to reduce speed and immediately raise them again, having learned from past experience that they brake the plane so much you can drop the last few feet rather unexpectedly. Banking round gently until I can see the grass strip ahead and leaning out to one side, then the other, I spot other aircraft on the ground, plus the odd vehicle - don't want to bash into those. Remembering all my practice runs, I line up as best I can, ease back on the throttle and manage to land with just three rather untidy bounces (I can almost hear the instructor during my early flights sarcastically telling me not to break the thing), at the same time trying to stop the wing dipping over. I feel the rumble (MSFFB2) of my wheels on rough grass and taxi over to a hangar, constantly leaning out left and right checking for obstructions. Applying the brakes I cut the fuel and the merlin sputters, coughs and finally dies. Sitting back in my seat the sudden silence is deafening. I carefully release my death-grip on the stick and wipe sweaty palms on my sleeves. Sitting forward I can feel a dampness on my spine from a clinging shirt. Made it down and I never got to fire a single flipping shot - but I survived. Trouble is I'll have to do it all over again tomorrow . . .

I've never experienced a sense of immersion anything like it before. The scenics are OK (not as pretty as IL2) and being worked on by some enthusiastic modders and no doubt other improvements will come along. The explosions, smoke seem infinitely variable - I've yet to see the same exposive effect repeated. You can hide in the clouds - as can the enemy and the campaign itself is quite brilliant. You really feel you're a very small part of something much bigger and historically significant. The improvements in visuals and sounds are a major leap forward from the original game and I think anyone would be happy to keep this on their system for some while to come. Like the early days of IL2, there are many improvements and changes planned that will slowly enhance the sim and possibly turn it into something of an EAW-type classic. Maybe Oleg's forthcoming version will be better - visually it will probably be streets ahead but as to atmosphere and the immersion factor, he's got a lot to beat with BoB2.
Excuse me now - got to go change my underwear before the next air raid warning . . .

Kurfurst__
10-05-2005, 05:52 AM
Had it with it, given it a chance, but it`s useless in the end.

The concept is great, but the execution is very poor. Waaay too many bugs, my 109E missed the canopy in flight, way to many crashes. Sounds, well, pre-recorded samples of aircraft running by, awfully boring in a short while, though sounds good first.

Graphics are just primitive for 2005., especially the externals. And try plunging into the see... yeah, same effect, NOTHING happens, a burning wreck is on a blue surface. Oh come on...

Most funny, I popped a Spit a few times (playing first time!) with a single puny 7.92mm MG from a bomber, just very very rough aiming with which you`d never hit, less shot down something in Il2. Well in BoB2WOW, I did. Multiple times.

A great concept wasted imho. Hopefully, Olegs BoB will take some of the idea for dynamic campaing though on which previous missions have visible effect (ie. destroyed AFs etc.)

stubby
10-05-2005, 05:57 AM
If your main thing is online dogfighting, BOBII is not for you. If you're into a rich,robust single player experience with one of the most immersive dynamic campaign systems, it's a must have. Since the second patch came out for BOBII, the game is rock solid in all departments on my system. The TIR 3 VE has a profound influence on the immersion level of this game. Bottom line, folks have to remember that the BOB engine is 6 years old so there's obviously eye candy things in it that don't match Il2s eye candy prowess. But for me, the most important thing is how the world looks from inside the pit. The pits are well done and rival Il2s. The terrain is ok but when you're engaging in massive air battles at 15,000 feet plus, ripples on the water and trees blowing in the wind become irrelevant.

VV_Holdenb
10-05-2005, 06:36 AM
"What do you think ...."
Just pants.

"give a reason why....."
Reason: Way too many crashes to desktop.

Bongokid
10-05-2005, 07:17 AM
I'd get it,

my impressions are pretty close to those described by choxaway.

and its refreshing to see the way the devs respond to complaints and demands.

Cheers,

Bongokid

DaimonSyrius
10-05-2005, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by choxaway:
I owned the original and
(...)
So what's a typical flying experience like? My first mission was like (...)

Great read choxaway, thanks for the good report on the game and the excellent flight story, you should post this over on the Combat Story Thread http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Keep enjoying your flying and don't refrain to let us know about it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S.

Capt._Tenneal
10-05-2005, 07:43 AM
not that this would be the best place to get a balanced opinion

I'm sure there are a lot of balanced opinions on the Shockwave or TrackIR forums, right ? Uh-huh. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

B16Enk
10-05-2005, 07:57 AM
Choxaway summed it up brilliantly http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Well written M8!

Can't add a lot more, formation flying is nail biting stuff just trying to stay in tight without colliding, constantly adjusting throttle, prop pitch, yaw and pitch. All the time eyeballing front, left and right trying desperately to keep some semblance of formation, unlike FB the AI can't see you when your in their blind spot so you can all too easily collide and tumble out of the sky.

Dog fights and interceptions are frantic, TiR with vector coming into full play as you try to track a bogey through the sky, peering around cockpit frames as you try to line up on them. Craft zooming in to view with pursuers hot on their tails serving to distract enough to lose sight of your chosen victim.
Which is probably just as well in my case as it usually is a friendly!

Getting shot up and discovering your port wing was peppered, and now the elevator has jammed 15 degrees down, you realise it's time to bug out. A quick mayday call gets you a vector to the nearest field, turning to the heading given is a feat in it's own right as you battle with the skewed flight dynamics by booting in starboard rudder, barely maintaining a semblance of ordered flight.

Finding the field itself is a major challenge for me, often the strip is nothing more than a reasonably level field with no discernable runway. Tell-tale signs of hangars and the odd vehicle give it away, along with the patient repeating of vector and distance from the control tower.

Final touch down is truly a relief, after the fight with the bounce and the spits desire to be airborne or underground!

The patches have worked wonders, there are more to come as the now minor glitches are worked through.
I'm one of the beta testers and can testify to the effort and dedication the shockwave team are putting in.
Osram for one is putting in 16 hour days 7 days a week I read, they take it as seriously (if not more so ) than we do http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

sgilewicz
10-05-2005, 08:59 AM
I have had BOB2 for just a week and have had no CTDs and silky smooth frame rates (although I have not started any campigns yet). The most astonishing thing I have seen is the excellent AI energy fighting (something sadly lacking in IL2/FB). In a quick mission last night, I was in a 109 going head to head with a Spit who was about 300m higher than me. Neither one of us had a good angle at the merge so I pulled the 109 up into a climb while keeping my eye on the Spit. The Spit also went vertical and with his better energy state reached altitude quicker than I and proceeded to perform A HAMMERHEAD! He came down straight at my floundering 109 and blasted the cr*p out of me. I may have lost the engagement but I was grinnin' like a fool. This is the way AI should be! I'm gonna like this game.

Worf101
10-05-2005, 09:49 AM
Hey Choxaway....

That's some of the best story tellin' I've read here in quite some time. Salute! Man that's good cracker.

Da Worfster

Dunkelgrun
10-05-2005, 11:11 AM
Although I've downloaded the patch I haven't reinstalled the game yet; this review was written soon after the game's release.

1) Crashes to desktop: almost everyone is getting them, very frequently, apart from the devs, so it seems that maybe the copy-protection software is at fault. Promised to be fixed soon.

2) FMs: vicious torque, and I mean vicious. And I thought Oleg had overmodelled it.

3) AI: pretty stupid in some ways, pretty good in others. Squadrons will make a course correction en masse, i.e as a block without any relative positional movement, and it looks horrible. Individual fighter attacks look very good, and enemy fighters react very quickly and appropriately if attacked. (Unlike IL-2 sometimes). I also had a 109 apparently warp in front of me. Weird in an offline game.

4) Cockpits: almost up to IL-2 standards but not quite. Very useful feature in toggled 'Interactive Cockpit' which labels the dials and levers when you run your mouse over them. CEM more complex than IL-2 (magnetos are actually needed!).

5) Sound: much better than IL-2 although how realistic I'm not sure. Opening the canopy really does make a difference in noise; guns and bullet hits very different from Il-2; flybys from enemy fighters VERY loud (why?).

6) 'Realistic' gun settings: much too easy, I can hit things all of the time, which I certainly can't in FB. On the other hand planes in BoB2 are tough, they don't catch fire with just a couple of hits.

7) Damage modelling: very poor, it looks horrible.

8) GUI and ease of setup: TERRIBLE! Worst I've seen for a very long time. It would have looked dated ten years ago, and is very hard to figure.

9) Documentation: pathetic. No printed manual, just a map and keycard that are, literally, unreadable. GMX has promised to ship manuals and full-size maps to everyone - we'll have to wait and see.

10) Weather: looking pretty good. I haven't experienced any of the dynamic stuff or flown through clouds but a dusk sortie over East Kent was pretty impressive. Dark down on the ground and very hard to see stuff, while still light at higher altitude. As it should be.

11) Landscape and Maps. Well, it looks like southern England. The maps are fine, rivers, roads, towns, coast etc all in roughly the right place. It's certainly possible to navigate along the coast. The white cliffs are there (in most places), but the whole thing is very very nasty when low down. Crappy landscape tiles a la early MSFS, some very strange colours and some very odd things. There's some orange blobs down there that I can't figure out.
Bringing up the in-game map pauses the mission and fills the entire screen - I prefer the IL-2 kneepad version.
There's also been some poor research in places; both CH and CHL radar stations are shown with the same mast objects, which means that there are gigantic masts on parts of the coast where they didn't exist. They've got the radar station at Dover on the wrong side of the harbour, which is unforgiveable as three of the masts are still to be seen today, and several (all?) of the land-based lighthouses are stuck out in the sea. There are only three southern lighthouses in the sea in the map area (Beachy Head, The Needles (just) and the Eddystone) the rest are all on dry land.



OVERALL IMPRESSION? A tired-looking old game that was surpassed the moment IL-2 was released. The devs have tried their hardest but there would have been so much that needed upgrading that it's no wonder they haven't done it.

Bear in mind that I found it very hard to configure, so there are a lot of things that might be able to be improved on. It took me most of the evening just to stop all my controls acting in reverse.

This is not to say that Oleg can't, and hopefully will, learn much from it. There are a lot of worthwhile bits and pieces that he should not leave out of his version of BoB. Oleg's BoB should be a better game because of BoB2.

RECOMMENDATION? Unless you were born and brought up in Kent and really, really need to have a BoB game, don't bother. I have already uninstalled it, but when the patch and printed manual eventually show up I shall probably fire it up again.

After seeing this I'm desperate for Oleg's BoB now, but at least we have FB for another couple of years yet.

Cheers!

SeaFireLIV
10-05-2005, 12:34 PM
BOBII is beaten by IL2 comfortably, but there are certain areas where BOBII outshines it and if Oleg adapts this for BOB (or even the FB series), it`ll be a surefire winner...

1, The glorious real time clouds. There are several layers from real low to well higher than 30000 ft. These layers of clouds mean you literally fight in a tiered system. One minute you are above cloud chasing a 109, he dives, you go after him through a layer of cloud and see nothing. You drop through another layer of hvy dark cloud and bump into couple of hundred Stukas that you didn`t know about!

And of course made wonderful with blind in clouds AI! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

2, AI comms is great. Your wingmen will tell you where they are at all times. They`ll give you a running commentary on the fight and they`ll actually TALK to each other ie, if one Squadron appears on the scene while another Squadron is in mid-battle they`ll actually acknowledge each other`s presence with quick instructions on who stays low and goes high! It`s great to hear and feels very British.

3, BOBII uses a volume control on certain flights. Further squads will sound noticably quieter.

So much of this should have been in IL2/FB.

Of course it`s not perfect...

1, Rain? Where`s the rain? With all those wonderful clouds I`ve not seen a drop in 40 + sorties. I heard someone say there`s no actual rain. What`s the point of great clouds, yet no rain? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

2, Like Dunkelgrun says damage modelis pretty basic. You get nice bits flying off aircraft and such, but forget any real-time dynamic damage visual effects. Also, bombers, especially Dorniers act kinda fluky when they go down, other planes like Stukas will just vanish. I don`t quite get the same pleasure killing a bomber as I do with FB. In FB EVERY aircraft goes down very realistic and hits the earth.

3, ground stuff looks great high, but not a patch on IL2 when low. You won`t get that feeling of speed when flying at 0 feet! To be fair they`ve done a lot of work adding extra little bits like swans flying from ships when you buzz it and vehicles and even moving people.


CTDs are greatly reduced and FPS` are in 40s now.

I think it`s worth getting but my problem is in flying FB AND BOB and I`m still waiting for that **** manual!

LEXX_Luthor
10-05-2005, 01:43 PM
choxaway::
The game is infinitely moddable; <span class="ev_code_yellow">aircraft skins</span>, scenery, sounds, modifications to aircraft suspension dynamics - ...
We "forgot" we can't mod aircraft for BoB2. So no, BoB2 is not infinitely moddable (finitely moddable, yes).

StrikeFighters is infinitely moddable. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Udidtoo
10-05-2005, 02:04 PM
Man, with the wildly differing opinions on the same issues its almost as if you guys are talking about FB 109 flight models or FB P-51 fm's or FB 190 Dm's or Fb Lagg3 Dm's or FB Sitfire FM's or FB P-38 FM or 151's or .50's or...

Maybe I will put this on my Xmas list just for a offline campaign that doesn't always end up on the deck.

Deedsundone
10-05-2005, 02:56 PM
http://s19.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=189NL8GEU835808VDW8KT45MCL

Mig Alley goes WW2.
I give it a 2.5 of 5
But it has the worst flyby ever done in a sim,don´t you think?

reisen52
10-05-2005, 07:17 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by choxaway:
I owned the original and rapidly became disillusioned as it was so bug-ridden.....QUOTE]

Looks like one of the shockwave guys likes this post as he is using the second half of it to sell the product.

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb....topic;f=130;t=000460 (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=130;t=000460)

Zeke

trumper
10-06-2005, 06:43 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dunkelgrun:
[b]Although I've downloaded the patch I haven't reinstalled the game yet; this review was written soon after the game's release.[/b

Cheers![/QUOTE

Dunkelgrun,could you post an update IF you do add the patch and see how it performs.
If not and you still don't like i'll give it a home and try it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif