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taz1004
06-22-2007, 09:55 AM
I used to play the original IL2 and never had problem landing. Even on non-airfields. But in 1946... I'm always bouncing.

I am using realistic landing and I even tried coming in very shallow. It's so shallow that I can't see the runway. So I turned off the cockpit to make sure my touchdown was nice and shallow... good touch down on the runway... but I still bounced up like 20 feet in the air? Tried coming in fast (200kmh) or slow (150kmh). Always bouncing. Can anyone explain proper landing technique in DETAIL? I'm flying Spitfire MK VIII.

SlickStick
06-22-2007, 10:27 AM
The VIII can be a little tricky on landing. As in most Spitfires, they are a little squirrelly on the ground handling due to the narrow wheel base and like to nose over as well as bounce.

I lower my approach speed to about 200-220km/h, line up the runway with full flaps, drop gear, drop throttle to zero, neutral elevator trim and coast in level flight over the first part of the runway until slowing under 200km/h. Then, I start raising flaps and let her touch down by gravity on all wheels, only using small amounts of stick to try and keep the touch down level.

The trick is not to push the stick forward too hard and make your landing angle too steep or she'll bounce back up on ya. On full servers, I use wide view to line-up the runway, but switch to zoomed in view on final approach before touch down.

Oh and remember, easy on the brakes. I have brakes on the pinky switch of my Saitek X-52 and apply brakes intermittently in a timed pattern around 3-5 seconds ON, release, 3-5 seconds ON, release, until she slows to about 50km/h, then you can apply brakes for longer until stop.

If I need to get down in a hurry, I do the same thing but belly land with no gear @ around 130km/h or less, leaving full flaps down and controlling spin with rudder and pushing the stick forward. I've gotten quite good at belly landing on carriers and runways and can almost predict exactly what the plane will do when I set it down.

Of course, given the scoring in the later versions of the game, no bother to bail after belly land, just hit Refly when she comes to a stop and still scoop your points. Well, unless you are damaged and the person damaging you is still active in the air. Then, you might get a reduced rate if you break a wing on the landing or damage yourself too much. In those cases, just bail and guarantee the 70%. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

DooDaH2007
06-22-2007, 10:34 AM
It's a bouncy beast...
When I just got the game and was learning to land I kept bouncing and crashing...

I then searched on youtube for real spitfire landings and 'lo and behold', they bounce in real life as well...

Learning to land the spitfire involved two lessons... (for me)

1) lock tailwheel before landing...
2) when the plane bounces, don't fight the bounce, or use just the littlest of rudder...
But just let the plane sort out it's own path untill it stops bouncing...

taz1004
06-22-2007, 10:45 AM
So what would be the proper airspeed just before touchdown and descent rate?

And why retract the flaps before landing?

If bounce is inevitable on Spitfire, then once you bounce up in the air the first time, do you keep the nose level? down? or pitch up? I tried keeping the nose level after bounce and the thing glided almost to the end of the runway.

Thanks for the tips.

SlickStick
06-22-2007, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by taz1004:
So what would be the proper airspeed just before touchdown and descent rate?

I never really watch the descent rate for a number, that part is just by feel, but I usually try to to touchdown level around 150-160km/h.


Originally posted by taz1004:
And why retract the flaps before landing?

As flaps provide lift, I let the movement of the flaps from full to retracted control the touchdown decent. i find that the speed at which they go from full to retracted allows for a nice touchdown from a few meters off of the ground.


Originally posted by taz1004:
If bounce is inevitable on Spitfire, then once you bounce up in the air the first time, do you keep the nose level? down? or pitch up? I tried keeping the nose level after bounce and the thing glided almost to the end of the runway.

Thanks for the tips.

If I happen to come in too hard and bounce the first time, I pull back slightly on the stick or use elevator trim to try and get her to level back off and touch down on all wheels or as close to it as possible. I've never actually looked at my externals while landing, so maybe the front wheels touch a smidge before the tail wheel.

Lt_Col_A
06-22-2007, 10:57 AM
I don't fly that spitfire too much but what worked best for me was No flaps at all, trim the elevators up so you don't have to pull that stick like a freak... and concentrate as you approach http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
I have a few good NTRKs of a non bouncy and very smooth spitfire landing if you like...

greetings from =***=

taz1004
06-22-2007, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by Lt_Col_A:
I don't fly that spitfire too much but what worked best for me was No flaps at all, trim the elevators up so you don't have to pull that stick like a freak... and concentrate as you approach http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
I have a few good NTRKs of a non bouncy and very smooth spitfire landing if you like...

greetings from =***=

NTRK? Is that track? That would be great.

major_setback
06-22-2007, 11:05 AM
Aim to land at the nearest point on the airfield as you approach it.
You want to be slow and straight going toward the runway. Flaps should be on the 'take off' setting for a good part of the approach. Set them to 'landing' for the last few hundred metres.
Aim at about 200km/hr on the aproach. You want about 34% throttle for the first part of the approach (from 1000m from the end of the runway/airstrip, with gear down, until you get to 300m from the airstrip) Then reduce the throttle when you get to 300m from the start of the airstrip.
You want about 180-160 km/hr at the point you touch the ground, even slower if possible. Cut the throttle to get to that speed. You should be on the ground at a point just before you would stall from lack of airspeed.

You should gradally descend so that you don't bounce off the ground.

Two important tips on approach.
1: you use your airspeed to control the altitude of the plane, the slower you go the more you will fall. With a high airspeed you won't reduce altitude - and you will approach at too high a speed.
As you approach at a distance adjust the throttle according to your altitude, if up high you should reduce the throttle.
2: Use your altitude to control the speed of the plane. If you are going too slow 'dive' the plane slightly to increase speed. Pull up to slow the approach. Use flaps to slow the plane more.


The above tips seem to contradict each other and what you know about flying, but they are important rules to know, and should only be applied when landing.

Lt_Col_A
06-22-2007, 11:07 AM
If you tell me where to upload, it will be yours soon (It's version 4.04 I think but that doesn't matter as for NTRK trackfiles)
There're some cams at groundlevel too so you can watch it from the airstrip... sth I prefer myself so you can playback your landings and learn...

SlickStick
06-22-2007, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by major_setback:
Flaps should be on the 'take off' setting for a good part of the approach. Set them to 'landing' for the last few hundred metres.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif Mk. VIII doesn't have 'take-off' position, but of course every top of the food chain Spitfire pilot has his flaps on a slider, so any position is theoretically possible, I guess. He just won't be able to read the position on the monitor text. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

major_setback
06-22-2007, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by SlickStick:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by major_setback:
Flaps should be on the 'take off' setting for a good part of the approach. Set them to 'landing' for the last few hundred metres.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif Mk. VIII doesn't have 'take-off' position, but of course every top of the food chain Spitfire pilot has his flaps on a slider, so any position is theoretically possible, I guess. He just won't be able to read the position on the monitor text. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ooops. Too much Akvavit 'snaps' today (midsummer celebrations).
http://www.vinospritbolaget.com/images/skane.jpg

Lt_Col_A
06-22-2007, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by major_setback:
Aim to land at the nearest point on the airfield as you approach it.
You want to be slow and straight going toward the runway. Flaps should be on the 'take off' setting for a good part of the approach...

Spitfire has only one flapsetting and so you have to tweak it constantly if you like to use it on this particular plane. Indeed it's right to cut throttle as you pass the threshold of the runway at 160 km/h just some 50 mtrs above the RWY... now let her 'stall out' on the tarmac (or grass, or...)

SlickStick
06-22-2007, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by major_setback:
Ooops. Too much Akvavit 'snaps' today (midsummer celebrations).


You're just used to your La-7 is all. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Have another drink. It's all good. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

taz1004
06-22-2007, 11:19 AM
Have a different but related question. Why is the airspeed indicated in the no-cockpit view higher than the airspeed shown on bottom left corner? Which is true airspeed?

I try not to adjust throttle too much as I have hard time fighting the torque change at the last minute. In fact, this is another part I'm having trouble with. I approach at around 20~25% throttle. As I touch down, I reduce the throttle and that causes the plane to twist. Should I set the throttle to idle before touching down or after?

DooDaH2007
06-22-2007, 11:54 AM
I have a track here in which I made 16 consecutive landings in the spitfire:
http://home.wanadoo.nl/chosen1/quick0001.rar

from this thread:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/923...311044745#7311044745 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9231023745?r=7311044745#7311044745)

major_setback
06-22-2007, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by SlickStick:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by major_setback:
Ooops. Too much Akvavit 'snaps' today (midsummer celebrations).


You're just used to your La-7 is all. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Have another drink. It's all good. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

mmmm. Have we met online? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

SithSpeeder
06-22-2007, 12:42 PM
Longer term effect of throttle at landing is to control ALTITUDE and rate of descent.

Longer term effect of elevator is to control SPEED. Initial effect of elevator will be altitude/rate, but that is relatively short lived.

Read Stick and Rudder...
http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Rudder-Explanation-Art-Flyi...id=1182537694&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Rudder-Explanation-Art-Flying/dp/0070362408/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-9620061-0368130?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182537694&sr=8-1)

...and keep practicing. That's the advantage of virtual flying (refly button).

* _54th_Speeder *

taz1004
06-22-2007, 12:51 PM
I'll definitely take a look at those tracks DooDaH.

I know practice is key but I needed to know what I was doing wrong. Thanks everyone for input.

DooDaH2007
06-22-2007, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by taz1004:
I'll definitely take a look at those tracks DooDaH.

I know practice is key but I needed to know what I was doing wrong. Thanks everyone for input.

It is 1 track, about 25 minutes long, showing 16 consecutive landings and takeoffs...
(actually, after landing and going about 50km/h I throttled up and took off again)..

Remember to use manual playback speed...

tomtheyak
06-22-2007, 06:43 PM
I fly the spit almost exclusively, here's my tips;

Aim to cross the threshold (very start of runway) doing 110mph IAS at 25% throttle and 6ft of air under the wheels; your attitude, note aTTitude NOT aLTitude is critical here and the best way to get the 3 pointer is to have the nose in the air with the horizon line crossing level with the base line of that leather sorbo pad at the bse of the gunsight; as she sinks chop the throttle, compensating for wing drop with rudder and a touch of aileron and you should arrive in a 3 pointer; about 1 in 10 times it'll be perfect, other times you'll hit one main wheel first and the rest of them you'll do just ever so slight a bounce before she settles happily of her own accord; I almost prefer these latter ones to the full three pointers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif !

hejbrigade
06-22-2007, 11:56 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

I see that Im not the only one having problems on landings 1946. Before I had none! I dont understand what was changed in this 1946 release cos my landing "always" end with gears wrecked or propeler twisted or fireball.. oh great balls of fire http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

DooDaH2007 Your tracks have helped me alot in aproving my landing in IL2

Does my hands suck or my Saitek X52? Who knows?

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

blairgowrie
06-23-2007, 05:14 AM
The Spitfire is the hardest aircraft in the game to master. I was taught to land it properly by one of the instructors in Joint Ops.

Approach speed at 180 kph with one and a half clicks of up elevator trim. On final, use 25% throttle and keep this on during flare. Gradually ease the throttle off and the aircraft should settle down gently on the runway at 140 kph stall speed, nose high. Dump flap to bring tail down quickly.

Swivet
06-23-2007, 02:46 PM
All i can say is throttle and flaps (http://youtube.com/watch?v=d_3YuwerLCQ) and a gentle (http://youtube.com/watch?v=PWPhmS0x3Bo)hand http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif