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View Full Version : Simple Fix for roof runners.



Nephetslol
11-26-2010, 02:28 PM
Make it so if you run on the roof your more likely to get more than 1 pursuer than some one who is on the ground.

CourtJestGaming
11-26-2010, 02:51 PM
I'm still all for adding Guards in Advanced Modes of Games. Both on the Roofs, and Papal Patrols.

This would eliminate alot of complaints, while still letting those who enjoy to constantly run around and on roofs play in Normal modes without the guards.

But of course, this topic has been covered numerous times like most others.

Keksus
11-26-2010, 03:00 PM
I like the idea of taunting your hunter to trigger a chance sequence most.

DeafAtheist
11-26-2010, 03:16 PM
I'd love it if they made it so falling from a certain level not only injured you, but killed you and your pursuer(s) got 50 pts same as a poison interception. So every time a roof camper fell off a roof they'd die and have to respawn costing them game time giving their pursuers a 50 pt suicide bonus and a new target to pursue.

Something like if you fall from the top of the roof you die. If you fall from halfway up the roof you are injured. If someone throws a knife at you while climbing you die because you get double injured by the knife and the fall.

KCizzll
11-26-2010, 03:21 PM
Yeah, some type of penalty for the long falls would be a great way to balance it.

DeafAtheist
11-26-2010, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by postwick:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cronstintein:
Yeah, some type of penalty for the long falls would be a great way to balance it.

how often do people fall from the rooftops? the roof runners sure don't, because they have NO intention of coming down in the first place. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They fall when pursuers climb up to pursue them. They will jump down or attempt to jump to another rooftop and miss when pursuers get close. Or they will jump from the top to the ground to kill a stunned target since aerial kills don't work on stunned targets.

Nick1021
11-26-2010, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by DeafAtheist:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by postwick:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cronstintein:
Yeah, some type of penalty for the long falls would be a great way to balance it.

how often do people fall from the rooftops? the roof runners sure don't, because they have NO intention of coming down in the first place. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They fall when pursuers climb up to pursue them. They will jump down or attempt to jump to another rooftop and miss when pursuers get close. Or they will jump from the top to the ground to kill a stunned target since aerial kills don't work on stunned targets. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
But wouldn't that punish the stealthy pursuer? He was going slow waiting for the right moment to get a 400 points kill but because a noob decides to jump he only gets 50. So instead it would promote running. So you can get to the noob before he acts stupid and jumps off, it will save the pursuer time and give him 50 more points.

DeafAtheist
11-26-2010, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by Nick1021:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DeafAtheist:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by postwick:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cronstintein:
Yeah, some type of penalty for the long falls would be a great way to balance it.

how often do people fall from the rooftops? the roof runners sure don't, because they have NO intention of coming down in the first place. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They fall when pursuers climb up to pursue them. They will jump down or attempt to jump to another rooftop and miss when pursuers get close. Or they will jump from the top to the ground to kill a stunned target since aerial kills don't work on stunned targets. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
But wouldn't that punish the stealthy pursuer? He was going slow waiting for the right moment to get a 400 points kill but because a noob decides to jump he only gets 50. So instead it would promote running. So you can get to the noob before he acts stupid and jumps off, it will save the pursuer time and give him 50 more points. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not really cuz if they don't see you coming they wouldn't jump and you'd still get your high point kill. If they see you they would then run or attempt to jump to another rooftop which would initiate a chase causing you to waste a lot of time chasing them for only 100 pts. With a 50 point suicide bonus if they fall and die ending the chase quickly you'd get a new target and they'd get sent back to the reloading screen. You'd basically get 50 points for doing nothing. You'd even get the points if they died accidentally with you on the other side of the map no where close to them. Every pursuer chasing them would get 50 pts each. So you might not even need to bother climbing a roof to chase them cuz some other pursuer might get there first and cause them to fall earning you all the bonus.

The only disadvantage compared to now is if a target falls off the roof you might be able to get an aerial kill on them. If the fall killed them you'd only get 50 pts for it instead of 400 for the aerial kill. So maybe a temporary injury from a fall would be a better solution... it would act similar to a throwing knife by slowing them down a bit and preventing them from climbing a wall.

The_Wazzilla
11-26-2010, 06:55 PM
when I get a target that is a roof runner I just kill a npc and get a new target

DeafAtheist
11-26-2010, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by The_Wazzilla:
when I get a target that is a roof runner I just kill a npc and get a new target

That just encourages it more by allowing them to kill others without being killed themselves. I will attempt to kill every target I am given even if they are on the roof. Sure it presents more of a challenge, but if you just let them be up there it will encourage them to keep doing it because it makes them feel safer which is why they do it in the first place.

DeafAtheist
11-26-2010, 07:25 PM
An aerial kill from a rooftop is 400-450 pts.

Squiddish
11-26-2010, 07:43 PM
I still think the best idea I've seen is to flag players as High-Profile while on roofs. The whole point of the detection meter is to penalize people for doing high profile things that civilians wouldn't do and that make you obvious. Like, I don't know, being on a roof.

rb2610
11-26-2010, 09:08 PM
Wouldn't a point loss for the person 'dying' be a more elegant solution?

SirPhist
11-26-2010, 09:48 PM
it's certainly a difficult situation, isn't it? i'm not a runner, so i don't have the runner mentality or understand why they do. so ask a runner what would deter him from running & he might or might not tell you. i can only speculate. i do know what people do and don't do in public.

people don't run at all unless they're being chased by someone, late to get somewhere, in a hurry... or perhaps very excited.

people DON'T run on rooftops. that i know.


but the ideas i have are these:

sharpshooting crossbowmen that will kill you just as easily as a player because...lol... "you're not supposed to be up here"

completely do away with any points at all for high profile kills, or reward maybe 5 whole points. high profile kills are...well, not very respectable. and rewards 100 points per gives the impression that it's worth at least a bonus. i don't even want to think it's equal to any bonus!!! the high profile assassination is supposed to be the last resort.

"...blade in the crowd"
not 'blade on the roof'

if you're running, you're no longer incognito or silent. and you're definitely not hidden. if you're on the roof, you may be out of sight or your target, but everyone else can notice you. it only takes one person to yell, "he's gonna jump! don't do it!" and alert any target or pursuer.

transfer the public's reactions from SP into MP. that was one of the first things i noticed from AC1. as soon as you begin climbing, people look at you, point, watch you, and call you a fool. why wasn't that implemented in MP? god knows. it seems so simple.


idk man. it's like as soon as i start playing assassin's, that i need to relearn how to be a normal person again as a change from playing...well, nearly anything else. it's too bad not everyone feels this way. i think it'd be more challenging if more people would abide by the creed.

obliviondoll
11-26-2010, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by Snipemaster666:
I still think the best idea I've seen is to flag players as High-Profile while on roofs. The whole point of the detection meter is to penalize people for doing high profile things that civilians wouldn't do and that make you obvious. Like, I don't know, being on a roof.
Seconded. Of course, I've said it before in other threads (including during the beta), so of course I'd agree.

Originally posted by postwick:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rb2610:
Wouldn't a point loss for the person 'dying' be a more elegant solution?

why should someone lose points when killed by anyone, let alone a roof runner? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think he means when you're suiciding off a roof you lose points instead of your pursuers gaining them.

Personally, I don't really like killing civs to break contract on a runner for a few reasons:

1. Sometimes get the same person/another runner anyway.

2. Killing someone exposes you if you're in sight of your pursuer and don't know.

3. If the person has the high-level killstreak bonus they can potentially start getting +250 points for every kill they make, meaning that 400 point aerial kill becomes 650 - better than a non-hidden poison kill.

If they're good at escaping runners, then a stealth player has to be the one to break their killstreak (preferably before it reaches 5)

DeafAtheist
11-27-2010, 01:31 AM
Honestly I don't really like the suggestion of rooftops being an automatic high profile area because if you're only going up there to assassinate someone who is up there that makes YOU high profile too and therefore you'd only get 100 pts for the kill. This would encourage people to go to the roof if they see a pursuer following them just to force the pursuer to go into high profile themselves so if they die the person killing them will only get 100 pts.

Forget point losses as I mentioned earlier... I think falling from the top of a high roof should cause death and naturally loss of their contract. Falling from halfway up a high roof or falling from the top of a low roof should have a temporary injury similar to a throwing knife.

MuddledMuppet2
11-27-2010, 02:39 AM
Originally posted by DeafAtheist: I think falling from the top of a high roof should cause death and naturally loss of their contract. Falling from halfway up a high roof or falling from the top of a low roof should have a temporary injury similar to a throwing knife.

That does seem reasonable in a lot of ways, 'realism' and gameplay

Slaterpipe
11-27-2010, 03:31 AM
I roof run all the time typically because I already have 3 people on me, what more do you want? All these I hate roof runner posts come from people at the bottom of the scoreboard who don't find a problem walking around unoticed because they don't have 3 pursuer's for the entirety of the map duration.

Roof running or not 3 people should be able to catch 1 person however the majority of the time you usually get 3 people walking on roof's behind you because that's apparently the only practical way of tracking someone on a roof?

If you want roof running to hurt the scores you get then they need to limit the amount of people chasing you to 1-2 at max because it's hard enough to have 3 on you the entire game, much less if you have to walk everywhere.

DeafAtheist
11-27-2010, 03:34 AM
Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
I roof run all the time typically because I already have 3 people on me, what more do you want? All these I hate roof runner posts come from people at the bottom of the scoreboard who don't find a problem walking around unoticed because they don't have 3 pursuer's for the entirety of the map duration.

You'd be mistaken in that assumption dude. I hate roof runners too and I often have 2-3 pursuers on me as 90% of the time I play I finish among the top 3. When I get 3 people on me I blend or morph with smoke bombs. Some pursuers kill civilians and some get stunned by me and others get killed by their own pursuers. One doesn't need to run on the roof to avoid pursuers.

Slaterpipe
11-27-2010, 03:58 AM
One also doesn't have to stand in a group of morph'd clones either, I find that boring and worthless as you make 0 progress toward your target, you're simply choosing one lame thing over another.

You luring or stunning is the same as me getting others to get frustrated and eventually chase me which also leads to escapes and stuns, same thing, different style. I don't see posts on here from people always in first whining about having 3 contracts for the entirety of a map.

Sweet you finish top 3, I have over 50% matches finished in 1st place, grats.

ZuluBull
11-27-2010, 04:40 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, do people want the devs to fix players from running on roofs! I mean what is the point of taking a short cut to your target? and what about aerial assassination? I mean do we want the developers to make the game easier or harder? and if it anoyes people that much I dont understand bcs for me the target is obviously in a clear position to assisnate, if I'm detected I run him off the roof! This game is all about strategy dont remove roof runners. Use some knowledge and use the gadgets to assist you that you worked for. And besides I prefer people on roofs its better than crowd runners when u mistakenly target an npc and kill the wrong target or chasing them around corner and corner. Mabye a solution of giving more points for a roof assissination.

Slaterpipe
11-27-2010, 04:45 AM
The developers want people using roofs, people who cannot catch those who use roofs want it gone.

DeafAtheist
11-27-2010, 05:05 AM
I only morph or blend until I eliminate 1 or 2 pursuers then once I get down to 1 I pursue my own target again. But usually my target ends up coming right to me so I can step out of my blend or morph to kill him then go right back into hiding.

So I disagree, morphing, blending, using disguises aren't lame... running on rooftops is lame.

DeafAtheist
11-27-2010, 05:18 AM
Originally posted by ZuluBull:
Correct me if I'm wrong, do people want the devs to fix players from running on roofs! I mean what is the point of taking a short cut to your target? and what about aerial assassination? I mean do we want the developers to make the game easier or harder? and if it anoyes people that much I dont understand bcs for me the target is obviously in a clear position to assisnate, if I'm detected I run him off the roof! This game is all about strategy dont remove roof runners. Use some knowledge and use the gadgets to assist you that you worked for. And besides I prefer people on roofs its better than crowd runners when u mistakenly target an npc and kill the wrong target or chasing them around corner and corner. Mabye a solution of giving more points for a roof assissination.

More points for a roof assassination? You're kidding right? That would just encourage it further. Why would you or anyone prefer chasing your targets on the roofs? Sure you won't accidentally kill an NPC, but you are MUCH more likely to get into a chase since they can see you coming which will only net you 100-150 pts if you catch them. Or else you'll have to use a gun to kill them or a throwing knife to slow them down. On top of that climbing the roof yourself to hunt your roof camping target exposes YOU to your own pursuers so up there you have to try to get close to your target while trying to avoid those hunting you since you have no cover.

I don't want to eliminate people from going up on the roof at all. I simply want to cut down on how much time people spend up there because roof camping has a greater advantage over other strategies due to the fact that you can perform an aerial kill without having to worry about being effected by smoke bombs, charge, or being stunned. You have a perfect vantage point in which you can observe your target's path, and you have little to worry about from your own pursuers as long as you watch your back. Giving more points for aerial assassinations is a horrible idea. If anything it should be less than it is. Like 200 or 250 max.

Slaterpipe
11-27-2010, 05:23 AM
How about we fix something useful instead, like the game I just had where I got no contract at the start and had people after me, 4.5 minutes into the game I finally get a contract, kill her, get another, kill him. Then another 4 minutes go by of no contract until 45 seconds left, how about less talk about roof running and more fixing the actual problems.

Slaterpipe
11-27-2010, 05:25 AM
Originally posted by DeafAtheist:
I only morph or blend until I eliminate 1 or 2 pursuers then once I get down to 1 I pursue my own target again. But usually my target ends up coming right to me so I can step out of my blend or morph to kill him then go right back into hiding.

So I disagree, morphing, blending, using disguises aren't lame... running on rooftops is lame.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it, however I find walking around in morph'd groups about as lame as it gets when its a game about killing people, but I'm not making posts of how to nerf people hiding in morph'd groups.

DeafAtheist
11-27-2010, 05:32 AM
Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
The developers want people using roofs, people who cannot catch those who use roofs want it gone.

The devs don't *want* people using roofs. They simply allowed it to be an option but it's an unfairly unbalanced option.

It's not an issue of being unable to catch people on the roofs. I can easily chase someone down for a measly 100-150 points, but how fair is it when a roof camper gets 400-600 pts for an aerial kill that can't be countered with an ability or a stun while those targeting the the roof camper end up getting into chases 90% of the time for low points?

I don't want to eliminate the ability to go to the rooftops. I simply want it more fairly balanced.

DeafAtheist
11-27-2010, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DeafAtheist:
I only morph or blend until I eliminate 1 or 2 pursuers then once I get down to 1 I pursue my own target again. But usually my target ends up coming right to me so I can step out of my blend or morph to kill him then go right back into hiding.

So I disagree, morphing, blending, using disguises aren't lame... running on rooftops is lame.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it, however I find walking around in morph'd groups about as lame as it gets when its a game about killing people, but I'm not making posts of how to nerf people hiding in morph'd groups. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude the game isn't just about killing people. It's also about utilizing the abilities to avoid being killed yourself. The game is more about avoiding being killed than killing which is why a stealth player with 5 kills can beat a runner with 10 kills.

There's nothing unfairly balanced about morphing because with the right counter abilities they CAN be countered. Unlike aerial kills from rooftops which CAN'T be countered.

I don't think that any of us complaining about roof camping want to eliminate it. We just want it more fairly balanced by having it be more of a risk to do it than it currently is.

Slaterpipe
11-27-2010, 05:43 AM
All these things are counterable to you except roof running, by your logic you can only get 100-150 from killing roof runners, not true.

DeafAtheist
11-27-2010, 05:43 AM
Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
How about we fix something useful instead, like the game I just had where I got no contract at the start and had people after me, 4.5 minutes into the game I finally get a contract, kill her, get another, kill him. Then another 4 minutes go by of no contract until 45 seconds left, how about less talk about roof running and more fixing the actual problems.

There are plenty of other posts addressing those things as well and the devs are aware of those issues. This is simply another thing that needs to be addressed as well.

DeafAtheist
11-27-2010, 05:50 AM
Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
One also doesn't have to stand in a group of morph'd clones either, I find that boring and worthless as you make 0 progress toward your target, you're simply choosing one lame thing over another.

You luring or stunning is the same as me getting others to get frustrated and eventually chase me which also leads to escapes and stuns, same thing, different style. I don't see posts on here from people always in first whining about having 3 contracts for the entirety of a map.

Sweet you finish top 3, I have over 50% matches finished in 1st place, grats.

No, dude it's NOT the same. Luring is simply the act of a player killing an NPC. Stunning takes skill because you have to time it right and you have to have available abilities like smoke bombs to make it more effective. During cooldown periods you're SOL. If I manage to get my first pursuer stunned I can be easily killed by my 2nd one for high points.

Roof campers have little risk of being killed for high points because you can see pursuers coming if you're paying attention. 90% of the time a roof camper is chased causing them to either lose the contract or kill them for a lousy 100-150 pts or shoot them with the Hidden Gun for 100 pts.

I'm not the least bit impressed with your more than 50% matches in 1st place because roof camping is unfairly balanced. Come down to the ground and see if you can keep that record dude.

DeafAtheist
11-27-2010, 05:51 AM
Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
All these things are counterable to you except roof running, by your logic you can only get 100-150 from killing roof runners, not true.

Dude I didn't say only. I said 90% of the time. Otherwise you have to catch the roofer off guard.

Slaterpipe
11-27-2010, 05:54 AM
What's your in game name would love to see your stats, and would love to plow you in a game, not impressed by your morph'd hiding, I would rip you apart.

Oh, and I bet your win session % sure isn't over 50% and you probably spend more time posting on here than actually playing, so im not impressed with your less than 50% with 50 sessions played.

Nothing needs to be addressed with roof running, people need to step their game up.

Slaterpipe
11-27-2010, 06:08 AM
On that note, ubisoft please please please allow others to see everyone's stats like we can see our own, and please include a search function, thanks.

ZuluBull
11-27-2010, 06:11 AM
Originally posted by DeafAtheist:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
One also doesn't have to stand in a group of morph'd clones either, I find that boring and worthless as you make 0 progress toward your target, you're simply choosing one lame thing over another.

You luring or stunning is the same as me getting others to get frustrated and eventually chase me which also leads to escapes and stuns, same thing, different style. I don't see posts on here from people always in first whining about having 3 contracts for the entirety of a map.

Sweet you finish top 3, I have over 50% matches finished in 1st place, grats.

No, dude it's NOT the same. Luring is simply the act of a player killing an NPC. Stunning takes skill because you have to time it right and you have to have available abilities like smoke bombs to make it more effective. During cooldown periods you're SOL. If I manage to get my first pursuer stunned I can be easily killed by my 2nd one for high points.

Roof campers have little risk of being killed for high points because you can see pursuers coming if you're paying attention. 90% of the time a roof camper is chased causing them to either lose the contract or kill them for a lousy 100-150 pts or shoot them with the Hidden Gun for 100 pts.

I'm not the least bit impressed with your more than 50% matches in 1st place because roof camping is unfairly balanced. Come down to the ground and see if you can keep that record dude. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Simple solution just kill your roof runner and carry on with the next kill. That roof runner is much more intelegent to use the roof as an advantage although he takes the risk of losing out and recieving less points if he spends the majority of his time up there. The roof camper has little risk of being killed ofcourse but also has little chance of getting to their target, NOT every one is a roof runner although I'm not saying you said so you just make it sound like most players are, as I said kill your target and get on with the next one.

rb2610
11-27-2010, 07:07 AM
Originally posted by ZuluBull:
The roof camper has little risk of being killed ofcourse but also has little chance of getting to their target

What? How exactly do roof runners who sprint across the map in a few seconds have less chance of getting to their target than people who actually use the streets and try to keep in low profile? :/

It's the other way round, I'll always be walking along about to pull off a 600 points hidden kill or something then some guy flys off a building in front of me and lands on my target.

Bludger_au
11-27-2010, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
What's your in game name would love to see your stats, and would love to plow you in a game, not impressed by your morph'd hiding, I would rip you apart.

Oh, and I bet your win session % sure isn't over 50% and you probably spend more time posting on here than actually playing, so im not impressed with your less than 50% with 50 sessions played.

Nothing needs to be addressed with roof running, people need to step their game up.

You kid are a joke.

Your little puffer fish ego & pidgeon chested stat quoting & whoring is only supported by a poorly implemented risk verse reward mechanic for roofing.

Your chest thumping for roofers is unimpressive.

Roofing might be for the minority now, but unless it gets a fix to the balance of risk verse reward... it NEEDS to be addressed, or it'll become the norm & majority.

Now get back up on your roof perch for everyone to see how much of a nub you are relying on a broken mechanic.

Slaterpipe
11-27-2010, 08:04 AM
Originally posted by Rippah72:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
What's your in game name would love to see your stats, and would love to plow you in a game, not impressed by your morph'd hiding, I would rip you apart.

Oh, and I bet your win session % sure isn't over 50% and you probably spend more time posting on here than actually playing, so im not impressed with your less than 50% with 50 sessions played.

Nothing needs to be addressed with roof running, people need to step their game up.

You kid are a joke.

Your little puffer fish ego & pidgeon chested stat quoting & whoring is only supported by a poorly implemented risk verse reward mechanic for roofing.

Your chest thumping for roofers is unimpressive.

Roofing might be for the minority now, but unless it gets a fix to the balance of risk verse reward... it NEEDS to be addressed, or it'll become the norm & majority.

Now get back up on your roof perch for everyone to see how much of a nub you are relying on a broken mechanic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aww, first of all, he brought up the stats, "I usually finish top 3 blah blah blah so forth about why morph is awesome, learn to run on rooftops properly instead of asking for it to be changed.

I request anyone who wants to act like a pro and whine about roofing to post your xbox live name so I may see you're horrible stats.

witchlordsameus
11-27-2010, 09:45 AM
Personally I dont see why people are complaining about people that choose to enjoy the freerunning element claiming they are "hard to kill" I for one never have problems with roof runners because I dont go fool hardedly rushing after them, I watch there movements, and climb up in a spot where I'm most likely to intercept them.

By far the easiest way to deal with them is the hidden gun, sure its only 100 points with bonus points if you catch them while they are midair but its by far easier to kill someone running around on the wide open rooftops with the hidden gun than it is on the ground.

My advice here would always be to carry a hidden gun build on one of your spare setup slots, you'll be glad you did.

Bludger_au
11-27-2010, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by Slaterpipe:

[QUOTE]
I request anyone who wants to act like a pro and whine about roofing to post your xbox live name so I may see you're horrible stats.

More of the same dribble, nice one.

So your argument regarding a fix to roofers is; you roof close to exclusively & you have superior stats to stealthers, and challenge any stealther to compare or even come close to your stats on xbox live, therefore proving roofing is balanced & therefore does not need a fix? yeah?

Mmmm ok, your kinda special, I'm sure you think so too, just in a different way.

DeafAtheist
11-27-2010, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
Aww, first of all, he brought up the stats, "I usually finish top 3 blah blah blah so forth about why morph is awesome, learn to run on rooftops properly instead of asking for it to be changed.

I request anyone who wants to act like a pro and whine about roofing to post your xbox live name so I may see you're horrible stats.

I didn't bring up the fact that I usually place in the top 3 to brag. I mentioned it for the simple fact that you made the false assumption that us stealth players don't get up to 3 pursuers on us at a time to deal with and that roof running is the only reasonable solution to dealing with them. I simply pointed out that I generally place in the top 3 to show that your statement was false because I don't roof run and I get multiple pursuers in most of the games I play.

Dude, we know how to run the roofs. We choose not to because we know it's an exploitation of a broken mechanic. We choose to play fairly, not brag about how skilled we are at using a broken, unfairly balanced strategy. Congratulations, you're very good at using cheap tactics to win. We're all friggin' proud of you.

Come on down to the ground and play like a real player and see if you can keep those stats instead of being a roof wuss who is too afraid to engage with pursuers he can't see coming a mile away from the rooftops. Or too afraid of being stunned to get close to targets so you aerial kill them off rooftops instead.

DeafAtheist
11-27-2010, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by witchlordsameus:
Personally I dont see why people are complaining about people that choose to enjoy the freerunning element claiming they are "hard to kill" I for one never have problems with roof runners because I dont go fool hardedly rushing after them, I watch there movements, and climb up in a spot where I'm most likely to intercept them.

By far the easiest way to deal with them is the hidden gun, sure its only 100 points with bonus points if you catch them while they are midair but its by far easier to kill someone running around on the wide open rooftops with the hidden gun than it is on the ground.

My advice here would always be to carry a hidden gun build on one of your spare setup slots, you'll be glad you did.

The issue isn't that they are hard to kill. The issue is that it's unfairly balanced when you have to resort to a 100 pt kill with a gun because you often can't get close enough for a higher point kill due to the fact that they can see you coming a mile off and initiate a chase but at the same time they are capable of getting high points against their own targets by aerial kills that can't be countered with smoke bombs, stuns... etc the way a ground kill can be.

Basically roof campers can get high points with low risk of being killed for high points and that's unfairly balanced. There needs to something implemented to make it more fairly balanced. Either there has to be an easier way of out playing roof camper other than hoping he's more focused on looking for his target than watching his back for pursuers, or make it so aerial kills have less point values, or make it so there is more risk with being on rooftops such as making high falls kill you and lose your target.

LaCava1
11-27-2010, 12:18 PM
How about if they fall, rather than dying, they got stunned on the ground for longer than if someone actually stunned you? You hit the ground, and are a sitting duck.

Slaterpipe
11-27-2010, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by DeafAtheist:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by witchlordsameus:
Personally I dont see why people are complaining about people that choose to enjoy the freerunning element claiming they are "hard to kill" I for one never have problems with roof runners because I dont go fool hardedly rushing after them, I watch there movements, and climb up in a spot where I'm most likely to intercept them.

By far the easiest way to deal with them is the hidden gun, sure its only 100 points with bonus points if you catch them while they are midair but its by far easier to kill someone running around on the wide open rooftops with the hidden gun than it is on the ground.

My advice here would always be to carry a hidden gun build on one of your spare setup slots, you'll be glad you did.

The issue isn't that they are hard to kill. The issue is that it's unfairly balanced when you have to resort to a 100 pt kill with a gun because you often can't get close enough for a higher point kill due to the fact that they can see you coming a mile off and initiate a chase but at the same time they are capable of getting high points against their own targets by aerial kills that can't be countered with smoke bombs, stuns... etc the way a ground kill can be.

Basically roof campers can get high points with low risk of being killed for high points and that's unfairly balanced. There needs to something implemented to make it more fairly balanced. Either there has to be an easier way of out playing roof camper other than hoping he's more focused on looking for his target than watching his back for pursuers, or make it so aerial kills have less point values, or make it so there is more risk with being on rooftops such as making high falls kill you and lose your target. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once again you miss the point, also, you forgot to give me your xbox live name deafathiest, I really want to see it.

Also, as the other post mentioned it's easy to intercept roof runners if you are not brain dead, you're post yet again calling roof running unbalanced and unfair and having to resort to a hidden gun for 100 points.

Yet again, good players can kill roof runners no problem, no gun needed, and no 100-150 points,you say roof running is lame, I say hiding in a corner surrounded by morph'd npc's wating to smoke + stun someone is lame, tomato, tomAto.

Keep posting you're own dribble as to why roof running is lame, I want to play you so bad, I love how kids keep commenting on it but none of the balls to post their xbox live name, laugh.

P.S. DeafAthiest, I don't believe you ever have 3 people on you, in fact I see you averaging around 2500 points a game just from your described play style. IF by some chance you actually do finish in the top 3 I'd be suprised because anyone else who plays like you ends up with about 1500 points in games I see.

You sure make alot of post's and type alot of information that I don't care about because you're "hiding in a morph'd group" is apparently the man's way to play, man up and actually post something I want to see like your gamertag pls kthx

GL HF stop crying about roof running

DeafAtheist
11-27-2010, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
Once again you miss the point, also, you forgot to give me your xbox live name deafathiest, I really want to see it.

I didn't forget anything. Just because you want it doesn't mean I'm going to give it to you. Besides I've posted my gamertag in these forums several times. If you want it bad enough you can find it.


Also, as the other post mentioned it's easy to intercept roof runners if you are not brain dead, you're post yet again calling roof running unbalanced and unfair and having to resort to a hidden gun for 100 points.

Dude I'm not talking about Roof Runners. I'm talking about Roof CAMPERS. And I never claimed they couldn't be killed for a high point value. I said they are much less likely to be.


Yet again, good players can kill roof runners no problem, no gun needed, and no 100-150 points,you say roof running is lame, I say hiding in a corner surrounded by morph'd npc's wating to smoke + stun someone is lame, tomato, tomAto.

I rarely ever use the gun. Nearly every kill I make is 400-600 pts. I think I have maybe a grand total of 4 gun kills in over 40 hours of playing multiplayer. I rarely get into chases. But that doesn't make roof camping any less unbalanced.


Keep posting you're own dribble as to why roof running is lame, I want to play you so bad, I love how kids keep commenting on it but none of the balls to post their xbox live name, laugh.

Dribble? What's "dribble" I'm assuming you mean drivel. Who are you calling a kid? I'm 35. I've probably been playing video games since you were in diapers. Like I said I've posted my Gamertag in these forums several times. You want it bad enough look it up. Besides stats don't mean squat when you are exploiting unbalanced tactics.


P.S. DeafAthiest, I don't believe you ever have 3 people on you, in fact I see you averaging around 2500 points a game just from your described play style. IF by some chance you actually do finish in the top 3 I'd be suprised because anyone else who plays like you ends up with about 1500 points in games I see.

You'd be wrong in that assumption dude. I usually get about 6-8 kills in a game with most of them being around 400-800 pts each. I average probably around 3000 pts a game. Sometimes more sometimes less. But I quite frequently have 2-3 pursuers on me. Happens in nearly every game.


You sure make alot of post's and type alot of information that I don't care about because you're "hiding in a morph'd group" is apparently the man's way to play, man up and actually post something I want to see like your gamertag pls kthx

I don't post for your personal entertainment dude. I post my opinion for myself just like everyone else here. You want my gamertag so bad look it up. I'm not hiding it.

Slaterpipe
11-27-2010, 05:06 PM
blah blah blah, TLDR, asked for one simple thing and you post 6 useless items, again, waste of time talking to you. You sure you're that old because it seems more like you are 5 years old so unwilling to post such a simple thing.

I've seen a handful of your 1000+ posts, and after those very few no thanks to anything further.

Bludger_au
11-27-2010, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
blah blah blah, TLDR, asked for one simple thing and you post 6 useless items, again, waste of time talking to you. You sure you're that old because it seems more like you are 5 years old so unwilling to post such a simple thing.

I've seen a handful of your 1000+ posts, and after those very few no thanks to anything further.

You really are a raging kid with a fragile ego.

The guy is meaningfully contributing to a discussion about roofers yet all you do is yank your own chain about your stats while calling him out.

On that note, the suggestion about high falls killing a player or else stunning for an extended duration seems to have merit.

SWJS
11-27-2010, 09:54 PM
Halo Reach has soft kill barriers. Perhaps Ubisoft could integrate a soft kill zone on very high/high rooftops? It could give you a warning and count down, and if you stayed up there too long, perhaps your persona would slip off and get hurt, possibly delaying their ability to run or climb, or possibly they would become instantly spotted by all their pursuers? They could also have rooftop guards spawn and kill them with an arquebus?

As for runners, there should be a limit as to how long you can run. One of my friends just takes off and never stops running, either making me have to start a chase and lose points, or wait at a spot and hope he runs that way. It's frustrating. They could also make it where you get extra points if you kill a runner stealthily, or maybe runners could have a respawn penalty if the game senses that they ran for so long at a time?

DeafAtheist
11-27-2010, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
blah blah blah, TLDR, asked for one simple thing and you post 6 useless items, again, waste of time talking to you. You sure you're that old because it seems more like you are 5 years old so unwilling to post such a simple thing.

I've seen a handful of your 1000+ posts, and after those very few no thanks to anything further.

I have no problem giving my Gamertag for legitimate purposes, like someone wanting to add me as a friend, but I see little value in posting it for a phallus-measuring contest so some 12 year old can boast about how his roofing stats are so much better than my stealthy stats. I really don't give a squat if a roofer has better stats than me because I play the game in a manner that's fair to all players. I don't exploit an unbalanced strategy for personal gain. Winning isn't as important to me as fair play and good sportsmanship.

Finding my Gamertag isn't that hard dude. It's posted in a thread that's currently near the top of of the 1st page in the forums. Like I said I'm not hiding it. I just refuse to give it out explicitly for a phallus-measuring contest. I have a bit more maturity than that.

EDIT: Actually the post it's in is nearly halfway down the 1st page on this forum right now as I edit this post, but it's been actively posted in every day so it's only a matter of time before it's back on the top again.

witchlordsameus
11-28-2010, 09:16 AM
Roof Campers are actually really easy to deal with too, especially if you are in the number 1 spot since chances are they will get your contract, just stay in npc groups underneath the edge of the roof or in tunnels/indoors they will HAVE to come down if they want to kill you.

But once again I dont tend to encounter issues with roof campers since Blender and Decoy are usually enough to give them a headache as they keep dropping on the decoy over and over again XD

Slaterpipe
11-28-2010, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by DeafAtheist:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
blah blah blah, TLDR, asked for one simple thing and you post 6 useless items, again, waste of time talking to you. You sure you're that old because it seems more like you are 5 years old so unwilling to post such a simple thing.

I've seen a handful of your 1000+ posts, and after those very few no thanks to anything further.

I have no problem giving my Gamertag for legitimate purposes, like someone wanting to add me as a friend, but I see little value in posting it for a phallus-measuring contest so some 12 year old can boast about how his roofing stats are so much better than my stealthy stats. I really don't give a squat if a roofer has better stats than me because I play the game in a manner that's fair to all players. I don't exploit an unbalanced strategy for personal gain. Winning isn't as important to me as fair play and good sportsmanship.

Finding my Gamertag isn't that hard dude. It's posted in a thread that's currently near the top of of the 1st page in the forums. Like I said I'm not hiding it. I just refuse to give it out explicitly for a phallus-measuring contest. I have a bit more maturity than that.

EDIT: Actually the post it's in is nearly halfway down the 1st page on this forum right now as I edit this post, but it's been actively posted in every day so it's only a matter of time before it's back on the top again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, don't care to look through 1000 of your meaningless posts, which seem to be in almost every post about nerfing something, apparnetly everything you are bad at needs to be fixed and only walking around incognito is acceptable.

This is not an e-peen contest, simply tired of all the bad players whining about not being able to catch roofers and want it fixed.

Nothing wrong with killing a roofer or being a roofer, or being a walker for that matter.

None of these kids realize what it's like to have 3 targets after you an entire map nor do you since you're gamescore stats are so bad you want to hide it, it's ok dude, I don't HAVE to see it, it was more of just confirmation for saying you're bad but in reality even without checking I know it's true.

I'd love to see how you plan to get to a target accross map given to you, walking, while you have 3 targets on you, guess what, 100% of the time you will never make it to that target walking. So what do you suggest, run on the ground? That's bound to work. Before you suggest walking around in a morph'd group or something else completely ******ed let me tell you, not everyone likes using morph, it's boring, and too many people using templar or charge for morph to be anywhere near reliable for anything.

More than anything I don't care about your score or points really I wanted to know your play time, because you can't possibly play as much as you post and you probably haven't played enough or won enough to truly have 2-3 people on you an entire map.

When I say an entire map, I mean it, not you had 2-3 people on you for a couple minutes and died 6 times in a row and got back to 1 pursuer.

Stop crying about roof running it's getting old. Suicide points for long falls for roofers? Less points? I mean laugh, how about -50 for every 10 seconds someone's sitting in a morph'd group? I don't think ubisoft's intention of morph was for someone to sit in a group for 3 minutes straight never moving.

Oh and for those wondering there already is a point deduction for runners, it's called incognito to silent, because once that target is in view anywhere of you running for a second you can never get incognito anymore. So there, -100 already in effect, stop crying about more point deductions for bad kids who walk around with 0-1 person chasing you.

Or if you want sure you can limit it somewhat that's cool, but I want +20 or something for every additional pursuer thats on me for every 30 seconds, you want to whine about things that don't matter. How about all the good players make posts about getting points for the additional pursuers? Should get something for being the main focus of the match all the additional pursers are there for are to limit how many points the top players can score anyway to keep it "balanced" otherwise you bad kids wouldn't even have a chance in a game.

DeafAtheist
11-28-2010, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
Again, don't care to look through 1000 of your meaningless posts, which seem to be in almost every post about nerfing something, apparnetly everything you are bad at needs to be fixed and only walking around incognito is acceptable.

Dude I'm not bad at anything in the game. I'm simply saying roofing is unbalanced, but I can still kill roofers with high points. It just takes finding the right strategy to do so. But just because I can handle it doesn't make it any less unbalanced.


This is not an e-peen contest, simply tired of all the bad players whining about not being able to catch roofers and want it fixed.

Like I said I'm NOT a bad player and I CAN catch roofers. But roofing is still an unbalanced strategy that has less risk than reward vs any other strategy. I simply care about a more fairly balanced game experience for all players.


Nothing wrong with killing a roofer or being a roofer, or being a walker for that matter.

Being a roofer exploits an unbalanced strategy. Sure there's nothing wrong with it, but exploiting an unbalanced strategy doesn't make you a good player regardless of how good your stats are. This is why getting into your phallus measuring contest about stats is unimportant to me. Because you having better stats than me does not make you a better player. Just makes you more willing to exploit a broken game mechanic than I am.


None of these kids realize what it's like to have 3 targets after you an entire map nor do you since you're gamescore stats are so bad you want to hide it, it's ok dude, I don't HAVE to see it, it was more of just confirmation for saying you're bad but in reality even without checking I know it's true.

I can't speak for others but I have indeed gone thru most of a whole game with 3 pursuers on me. You can get 3 pursuers on you just being in 3rd place sometimes even 4th although it's more frequent when you're in 1st. Me not giving you my Gamertag is not an admission that I suck at the game. So you don't know a thing dude, you're simply making assumptions about other people without facts.


I'd love to see how you plan to get to a target accross map given to you, walking, while you have 3 targets on you, guess what, 100% of the time you will never make it to that target walking. So what do you suggest, run on the ground? That's bound to work. Before you suggest walking around in a morph'd group or something else completely ******ed let me tell you, not everyone likes using morph, it's boring, and too many people using templar or charge for morph to be anywhere near reliable for anything.

When I have 3 pursuers on me I can indeed usually make it to my own target walking. I tend to use disguise and Blend which causes hasty pursuers to kill NPCs or get confused long enough to stun them without using smoke or mute. In a game on Friday night I used a disguise and managed to stun 2 pursuers in a row without using smoke for either of them. I don't suck so bad at the game that I need to stand on rooftops like a wuss afraid of a little competition.

Templar Vision is pretty easily countered because someone using it lights up like a Christmas tree. If I'm paying attention I can stun a pursuer using Templar Vision before they kill me. I've yet to have anyone use a Charge ability on me because I use Disguise more than Morph so people who use Charge tend to use it more against targets who are morphed or blended in groups.


More than anything I don't care about your score or points really I wanted to know your play time, because you can't possibly play as much as you post and you probably haven't played enough or won enough to truly have 2-3 people on you an entire map.

According to my stats I've played multiplayer for about 27 hours total and in that time I've ranked up to level 43. Most of that time has been spent in Ranked Wanted matches. But you're right. I have not been able to play as much as I post. Since I got the game I've only had less than 6 days with it the majority of the time since the game has been out I have been visiting my mother leaving my Xbox 30 minutes away at my own apartment. But how much time I've played the game is irrelevant. I've been placing in the top 3 for most games since the day the game came out. Yes I've unfortunately placed 4-8th in some games as well, but the majority of the games I play I finish 1st-3rd and experience having multiple pursuers after me in nearly every game I play.


When I say an entire map, I mean it, not you had 2-3 people on you for a couple minutes and died 6 times in a row and got back to 1 pursuer.

Yep, been there. Done that. Even if I drop down to 4th or 5th place after being killed by multiple pursuers I can usually get back into 1st-3rd place with a single kill and I've had 3 pursuers on me even in 4th place in some games.


Stop crying about roof running it's getting old. Suicide points for long falls for roofers? Less points? I mean laugh, how about -50 for every 10 seconds someone's sitting in a morph'd group? I don't think ubisoft's intention of morph was for someone to sit in a group for 3 minutes straight never moving.

Unlike roofing morphing and blending can be countered with abilities so it balances out. You even said yourself that morphing can be ineffective against people using Charge or Templar Vision. I'm curious then what you think the disadvantages are to roofing? What risks do you take being on the rooftops.

And if you think Ubisoft didn't intend to have people using the morph for long periods of time you obviously haven't taken a look at the challenges. There's a challenge for spending more time in a game blended or moprhed in a group. However there is NOT a challenge you can earn for spending a lot of time on the rooftops.

jax660
11-28-2010, 12:50 PM
why dont do it like in SP

alot of guards on the rof that will watch you and if you stay up there for a long time the guard will do so you trigger a chase that way the guy that you are supposed to kill(hes on the ground) runs away and get the points for that

and you will still be able to run on the roof when you are running away cuz it will take time for the guards to alarm the other ppl

Slaterpipe
11-28-2010, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by DeafAtheist:

And if you think Ubisoft didn't intend to have people using the morph for long periods of time you obviously haven't taken a look at the challenges. There's a challenge for spending more time in a game blended or moprhed in a group. However there is NOT a challenge you can earn for spending a lot of time on the rooftops.

Wrong, there is 1 challenge for spending 120 seconds blended inside hiding spots / groups for a session. That is NOT 120 seconds STRAIGHT its 120 out of the 10 mins of the game total, and on that note if you didn't want people running around why would they have challenges for killing contracts within 15 seconds of getting it? Getting 2 incognito kills in 1 min? I know when I have 3 on me sometimes someone gets a contract for me that's already like 10 feet away I guess you are just one of those lucky kids because I never get a contract for ANYONE within screen distance from me.

How do you get aerial + acrobatic kills without being on top of roofs? Hmm no challenges at all for being on top of roofs huh.

You getting those done by walking around? Doubt it.

Now you even admit not playing it that much, so as someone who has played more time than you and thus by EXPERIENCE there is no unbalanced play in roof running.

You argue hiding in groups etc can be countered by abilities and roof running can't and that's why it's unbalanced.

Hidden gun, 100% of that ability is killing roof runners,throwing knives make roof runners fall, just because YOU don't to use it and get 100 points doesn't mean you can't, and thats more than 100 if you use the knives.

You haven't pointed out anything unbalanced with it, you simply like the abilities you use and don't want to use others such as the gun.

I don't want to use morph and such but I'm not suggesting it's unbalanced. You haven't played enough to know, and guess what, finishing 4-8th or whatever isn't the same as being in 1st or 2nd place THE ENTIRE TIME OF THE MATCH, NOT GETTING A 2x KILL TO GET UP TO 1-3. I'm talking from experience of being in 1st, or 2nd ALL 10 MINUTES OF THE GAME.

I used to love the 2x multiplier, until now because 9 games out of 10, I never lose my contract enough to get that bonus, I get in the top3 (usually first) all with kills and streaks and variety's, heh yesterday I actually got the extreme variety bonus in back to back games. You don't get those from walking around all game thats for sure.

So you argue abilities can counter morpher's etc but can't roof runners, totally wrong 100% no argument cant counter that the gun can kill roof runners.

So what do you do? Suggest in multiple posts that the gun should get you more points? No, you simply want roof running out / loss of points.

You also argue about challenges in the game, well guess what there are a total of more challenges combining speedy kills + aerial kills + acrobatic kills than anything for morph'd or standing in a blended group.

Not only are there more challenges for such kills and tasks, but they also require many many more total kills / tasks.

Also let me use your logic (by that I mean the lack thereof) and say just because you walk around on the ground doesn't mean you're a better player than a roofer.

I've played plenty of games with bad roofers and bad walkers / hiders, in fact I have several messages in my inbox asking me how I pick out the real one without using templar vision.

I say I'm better than you based on your play style, I analyze who the real one can be very quickly and don't waste time doing so, I say I'm better than you because I feel 100% the way you play you would never ever, ever, finish above me in a game. Regardless if I run on roofs or not, it could be castel gandolfo, it doesn't matter.

I wish I could see the challenge progress and stats of others, because I can gaurantee I have more challenges done both speedy kills, slow kills, stuns, whatever, In any such case I probably have completed 10x more than you.

oddly enough the exact challenge you mentioned requiring 120 seconds of blending I've completed 8/20 of the step im on out of hmm like 400 sessions?

So even with my moving around and what not I still manage to blend and move with groups alot, just because it's not 5 minutes of the 10 minutes doesn't mean im using an unbalanced means of scoring higher points.

What's funny is I care so little about my own stats is I let my friends play who have put up about 50 sessions on my account scoring 1000 points or less in each. EVEN with this, im sure my stats are still better than yours.

My problem with this thread and many others, is like you admit, and most others who post these probably have hardly spent ANY time playing, had a rough time chasing someone on a roof and simply come here to cry about it.

If you've barely netted 1d played or even reached 50, guess what, you are not as experienced as you think in how this game and each map goes, since reaching 50 I probably average double the points I did before then, and half of that is how much less problem I have picking out picking who are disguised and hiding.

I finished my clairvoient(sp?) challenge by 50 all 3 steps, that's how easy it is to pick out people diguised or morph'd, honestly the better players I see run around more, not because it's unbalanced but because it's SO easy for a good player to pick out a real one walking around.

Also I saw another of your posts somewhere but am too lazy to find it to quote you but you said something about not being able to stun people who are high profile chasing you without using an ability to stop + stun them like smoke bombs.
Also incorrect, I choose disguise over morph and find it much much more reliable. My favorite time to use disguise is when im being chased in high profile, they usually panic to find you once they've lost you around a corner and it makes it very easy to stun them for a 300 point stun for the stun + escape, rather than sit in a morph group and stun for just 200.

So if you have any other reasons you can indicate that makes roof running unbalanced I would like to hear them and discuss those with you.

Slay224
11-28-2010, 02:12 PM
They need to make an NPC Guard who will kill some1 who stays on the roof for more then 30 secs, wether your in a chase or not, your dead after 20-30 seconds

Slaterpipe
11-28-2010, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by Slay224:
They need to make an NPC Guard who will kill some1 who stays on the roof for more then 30 secs, wether your in a chase or not, your dead after 20-30 seconds

That's what I want in multiplayer, dying to npc's....... next

obliviondoll
11-28-2010, 03:47 PM
First off, some stats to keep the whining brat in check...

So you can verify my claims, PSN: obliviondoll (not that I'm posting impressive stats, but if you feel the need to look me up, feel free)

Average score per session: 2768.61

Best session score: 4905

Not great stats, but I OFTEN come in the top 3, and even when I don't, because I'm now level 35, I occasionally end up in matches where there are a lot of lower level players, and become a preferred target, so yes, I DO get 3 and sometimes 4 players after me at times.

You seem to forget that if a player takes an early lead (which one good kill can do for a stealth player), they'll become preferred target until they're overtaken.

DeafAtheist DOES have a point.

NOT saying "roof running is totally unbeatable" - it's not.

NOT saying "roof running shouldn't be allowed" - it should.

<span class="ev_code_RED">If this post is TL;DR, firstly, you should get checked for ADHD, and secondly, read only the following paragraph:</span>

BUT, running around on the rooftops gives you more advantages and less penalties than players who stay on the ground.

<span class="ev_code_RED">TL;DR version over. Further explanation follows</span>

When you're on the roof, you can see pursuers coming - it's hard to sneak up on someone on the roof, usually meaning reduced points for the person killing you.

Also, when you're on the roof, you can stack the acrobatic bonus on top of your silent/incognito bonus for an easy 400+ point kill - there's no real penalty for being up there, even though it gives you an advantage.

Slaterpipe
11-28-2010, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by obliviondoll:
First off, some stats to keep the whining brat in check...

So you can verify my claims, PSN: obliviondoll (not that I'm posting impressive stats, but if you feel the need to look me up, feel free)

Average score per session: 2768.61

Best session score: 4905

Not great stats, but I OFTEN come in the top 3, and even when I don't, because I'm now level 35, I occasionally end up in matches where there are a lot of lower level players, and become a preferred target, so yes, I DO get 3 and sometimes 4 players after me at times.

You seem to forget that if a player takes an early lead (which one good kill can do for a stealth player), they'll become preferred target until they're overtaken.

DeafAtheist DOES have a point.

NOT saying "roof running is totally unbeatable" - it's not.

NOT saying "roof running shouldn't be allowed" - it should.

<span class="ev_code_RED">If this post is TL;DR, firstly, you should get checked for ADHD, and secondly, read only the following paragraph:</span>

BUT, running around on the rooftops gives you more advantages and less penalties than players who stay on the ground.

<span class="ev_code_RED">TL;DR version over. Further explanation follows</span>

When you're on the roof, you can see pursuers coming - it's hard to sneak up on someone on the roof, usually meaning reduced points for the person killing you.

Also, when you're on the roof, you can stack the acrobatic bonus on top of your silent/incognito bonus for an easy 400+ point kill - there's no real penalty for being up there, even though it gives you an advantage.

Ok let's keep this discussion going! Now you're argument is that you see pursuer's coming. Sitting in a corner morph'd isn't? Same thing. So no real reasoning to your point of it being unbalanced, and yes by your stats which thank you for posting, are definately one of the bad kids crying I'm referring to.

Not to mention you don't get acrobatic kills from rooftops 100% of the time, so no argument there either, you have to be in a crouching position (a ledge, which using throwing knives would make one fall) or while climbing, it's not just from rooftops that is aerial.

They can only see you coming if you decide you want to get on a roof and spot them out, how about you not get on a roof 3 buildings away and let them see you? It's your playing style that's the problem not people on roofs.
You are probably one of those same people who will sit and stare at you building to building and think by just sitting still I won't realize you have a contract for me.

I know you think it's unbalanced but im listening for ACTUAL reasons as to why, not just because it's too difficult for you fragile players to deal with.

Slaterpipe
11-28-2010, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by postwick:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">there's no real penalty for being up there

exactly the problem.

it should make you high profile. the game says something along the lines of "running is not a normal activity in a crowd" which makes you high profile. is climbing around on rooftops "normal activity?" nope. it should make you high profile, too...with everything that comes along with it just like running (such as the L1 lock icon). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK! LETS TALK ABOUT GAME HINTS! There is also a game hint about running on rooftops, so to compare that to the other of running in a crowd is pointless. Not to mention if you are on a rooftop your pursuer has 100x easier time spotting you, so the only thing I see here with this post is that being on a roof is more of a disadvantage than being in a crowd if not running. Next...

obliviondoll
11-28-2010, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
Ok let's keep this discussion going! Now you're argument is that you see pursuer's coming. Sitting in a corner morph'd isn't? Same thing. So no real reasoning to your point of it being unbalanced
Removing the personal attacks, I'm not crying, just explaining a perspective I understand better than you. I'm happy to admit I'm not a great player, but you don't see the flaw in your logic.

It's harder in a morphed group than on a rooftop to spot a pursuer.

If you're coming at me while you're in a blend group yourself, or if you're walking in the crowd, it's far less of a giveaway than if you're walking along a rooftop/climbing up a wall/running at the guy you're hunting with a big flashing red light above your head.

EDIT: Also, how likely is your target to be able to stun you when you're pouncing from the rooftops onto them? Yeah, thought so...

Quite simply, being on rooftops makes it easier to see your pursuers WITHOUT making it harder to get the high-score kills.


Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
Not to mention you don't get acrobatic kills from rooftops 100% of the time, so no argument there either, you have to be in a crouching position (a ledge, which using throwing knives would make one fall) or while climbing, it's not just from rooftops that is aerial.
And you fall and get what? Oh no I'm on the ground now. Climb back up, problem solved?

I wasn't saying you get that bonus every time, just that it's easy for you to get it.

A lot of rooftops have ledges you can climb onto for the bonus, or beams you can step out onto right before making the kill.

By the way, I'm not claiming to be a better player than you, or claiming you're a bad player. By the way you're arguing, you have a rational point, and are making it well. I just think you're missing the point another person here has made. Please stop with the personal attacks, they don't help people take you seriously.

DemonLordSparda
11-28-2010, 04:54 PM
Why is everyone feeding the troll? Just keep your discussion going without responding to him directly. He obviously wants to challenge people and you are challenging him verbally. Eventually he'll get mad and go do something else. So I urge you all to ignore him.

obliviondoll
11-28-2010, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by DemonLordSparda:
Why is everyone feeding the troll? Just keep your discussion going without responding to him directly. He obviously wants to challenge people and you are challenging him verbally. Eventually he'll get mad and go do something else. So I urge you all to ignore him.
He's not a troll. He just needs to learn some manners.

He's coming out with occasional decent (not great) points in amongst his less relevant comments and personal attacks.

mockingbird83
11-28-2010, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
Sweet you finish top 3, I have over 50% matches finished in 1st place, grats.

LOL at the rooftop runner who finishes 1st 50% of the time, and in the same breath claims its NOT an OP tactic.

witchlordsameus
11-28-2010, 09:16 PM
Erm actually you are more likely to lose incognito when running on the roof as its rather easy to come into the line of sight of a contract while charging around the roof than on the ground, remember if you can see them, they can see you so you lose incognito/silent rather quickly if charging about, charging about on the street however is much easier since you have blind corners and obstacles that will obstruct line of sight making it a much more viable choice imho for closing space quickly on a contract without losing your incognito bonus.

Again and I'll stress this point, Roof Campers/Runners are very easy to intercept, just follow the flow of the direction and move to intercept them.

obliviondoll
11-28-2010, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by witchlordsameus:
Erm actually you are more likely to lose incognito when running on the roof
That depends HEAVILY on which roof you're on.

Tall buildings in Venice, almost any rooftop in Monteriggioni, and certain parts of Rome and Forli are tall enough and on the right angle that if you pay any attention at all to the compass, you can avoid losing the Incognito bonus.

And Silent is EASY to maintain if you're staying near the middle of rooftops on the right map.

Slaterpipe
11-28-2010, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by obliviondoll:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by witchlordsameus:
Erm actually you are more likely to lose incognito when running on the roof
That depends HEAVILY on which roof you're on.

Tall buildings in Venice, almost any rooftop in Monteriggioni, and certain parts of Rome and Forli are tall enough and on the right angle that if you pay any attention at all to the compass, you can avoid losing the Incognito bonus.

And Silent is EASY to maintain if you're staying near the middle of rooftops on the right map. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No you are wrong, he is right. I usually run a bit after I get a kill since most the time dying is when I get a kill, and most the time if you are on the roof you usually end up losing your incognito bonus before you even see your target show up in the corner of your screen because SOMEWHERE through some magical crack in a tunnel they had line of sight for half a second and you cannot get your incognito back.

To postwick, you missed the point, you get penalized for running in line of sight the same as on the ground as on the roof so you have no idea what you are talking about. It's also referring to being high profile to other players that can see you, which obviously if you see someone standing on a roof above you, it's probably not a great idea to walk under them.

So again it's more with the play style you do not an actual imbalance in things.

To oblivion doll, yes I may have made some remarks that were a bit mean but it is sadly the truth, and as to your point again of ok some ledges and such can easily get that acrobatic bonus, ok well people walking on the ground can easily get a hidden bonus, you can't get that from rooftops and that's +200, so there's another advantage to ground goers over rooftops, not to mention ledges and poles to walk on also requires your prey to be directly under you, so it's more situational than anything, so again it's not anything to bank on happening everytime.

So some may have seemed like attacks but in reality, I just dislike inexperienced players asking for nerfs immediately without actually playing it, and now call others "exploiters" which by playing how the game is designed (refer to our challenge discussions earlier) really just upsets me because someone is trying to change the game to their play style for no actual reasons to back it up.

DeafAthiest should also stop throwing around the word exploiters since you apparently don't know the meaning of it. Since there is no big white memory barrier atop of each building im going to assume going on rooftops was intended therefor not an exploit.

Slaterpipe
11-28-2010, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by mockingbird83:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
Sweet you finish top 3, I have over 50% matches finished in 1st place, grats.

LOL at the rooftop runner who finishes 1st 50% of the time, and in the same breath claims its NOT an OP tactic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pretty sure not every map is even possible to roof run, so there goes your theory as to how I have over 50%

Actually for the record my best session was 8950 and that was on castel gandolfo, please, tell me which roofs I ran on?

obliviondoll
11-28-2010, 09:51 PM
The more I hear from you, Slaterpipe, the more respect I have for that perspective.

And having had a few recent matches where I've decided "whatever" and gone to the roof to track down a particularly annoying target, I've had a decent amount of luck in catching them off guard (or right after they jump onto someone else).

I'm starting to think rooftops are probably more balanced than I first realised.

And hidden is a fairly situational bonus too, usually one you have to have a lot of patience to get.

Only problem I have is when a player in a chase gets a hidden bonus because they happened to be standing in a blend group when they kill you, or because they'd jumped into the haystack you're on your way out of - I don't think those should count.

There is also the logic-based argument in favour of making rooftops count as high-profile though - which Postwick made and nobody's actually acknowledged directly.

Running = high profile because you stand out. Nobody's arguing about that.

But you stand out by staying on a rooftop as well, how is it logical that being up there isn't high profile too?

There's freedom to run around in crowds and on rooftops in Assassin's Creed single-player, but running in crowds gets attention from civilians and makes you obvious, so does climbing, and... Here's the important part... SO DOES JUST STANDING ON A ROOFTOP IN SIGHT OF THEM.

Haven't seen a reply to that point yet.

I will mention, though, that logic doesn't always work when implemented into gameplay, so I'm not going to stand 100% behind this idea now.

Slaterpipe
11-28-2010, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by obliviondoll:
The more I hear from you, Slaterpipe, the more respect I have for that perspective.

And having had a few recent matches where I've decided "whatever" and gone to the roof to track down a particularly annoying target, I've had a decent amount of luck in catching them off guard (or right after they jump onto someone else).

I'm starting to think rooftops are probably more balanced than I first realised.

And hidden is a fairly situational bonus too, usually one you have to have a lot of patience to get.

Only problem I have is when a player in a chase gets a hidden bonus because they happened to be standing in a blend group when they kill you, or because they'd jumped into the haystack you're on your way out of - I don't think those should count.

There is also the logic-based argument in favour of making rooftops count as high-profile though - which Postwick made and nobody's actually acknowledged directly.

Running = high profile because you stand out. Nobody's arguing about that.

But you stand out by staying on a rooftop as well, how is it logical that being up there isn't high profile too?

There's freedom to run around in crowds and on rooftops in Assassin's Creed single-player, but running in crowds gets attention from civilians and makes you obvious, so does climbing, and... Here's the important part... SO DOES JUST STANDING ON A ROOFTOP IN SIGHT OF THEM.

Haven't seen a reply to that point yet.

I will mention, though, that logic doesn't always work when implemented into gameplay, so I'm not going to stand 100% behind this idea now.

At least you are actually trying things and admitting it's not as hard as people are making it out to be, it's really not, you just approach them differently.

As to the point which was unaddressed I thought I did, but it obviously should make that person on a roof high profile to the PLAYER who should realize not to walk under them or at least keep an eye out on them. Unless you walk directly to them they are not getting off that roof without using R2 which would drop the incognito.

Try roofing a bit and see how difficult it is to roof and actually keep an incognito bonus. Please inform us of your findings.

obliviondoll
11-28-2010, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
Try roofing a bit and see how difficult it is to roof and actually keep an incognito bonus. Please inform us of your findings.
I have done a couple of times recently - the "whatever" moments I mentioned in my last post.

Incognito's not easy to keep, EXCEPT on a few of the tallest buildings if you only run when you're in the middle of the roof, not near the edges.

Silent's not hard to maintain though, which means that when you're landing an acrobatic kill, it's still likely to be 400 points.

And like I said, I can see that while it's a different skillset you're using, it does take skill to get high-scoring kills from the rooftops.

I'm not good enough at either stealth or running/roofing to say how balanced the abilities are in terms of score though.

Evan52395
11-28-2010, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by obliviondoll:
First off, some stats to keep the whining brat in check...

So you can verify my claims, PSN: obliviondoll (not that I'm posting impressive stats, but if you feel the need to look me up, feel free)

Average score per session: 2768.61

Best session score: 4905

Not great stats, but I OFTEN come in the top 3, and even when I don't, because I'm now level 35, I occasionally end up in matches where there are a lot of lower level players, and become a preferred target, so yes, I DO get 3 and sometimes 4 players after me at times.

You seem to forget that if a player takes an early lead (which one good kill can do for a stealth player), they'll become preferred target until they're overtaken.

DeafAtheist DOES have a point.

NOT saying "roof running is totally unbeatable" - it's not.

NOT saying "roof running shouldn't be allowed" - it should.

If this post is TL;DR, firstly, you should get checked for ADHD, and secondly, read only the following paragraph:

BUT, running around on the rooftops gives you more advantages and less penalties than players who stay on the ground.

TL;DR version over. Further explanation follows

When you're on the roof, you can see pursuers coming - it's hard to sneak up on someone on the roof, usually meaning reduced points for the person killing you.

Also, when you're on the roof, you can stack the acrobatic bonus on top of your silent/incognito bonus for an easy 400+ point kill - there's no real penalty for being up there, even though it gives you an advantage.

<span class="ev_code_RED"> Ok let's keep this discussion going! Now you're argument is that you see pursuer's coming. Sitting in a corner morph'd isn't? Same thing.</span> So no real reasoning to your point of it being unbalanced, and yes by your stats which thank you for posting, are definately one of the bad kids crying I'm referring to.

Not to mention you don't get acrobatic kills from rooftops 100% of the time, so no argument there either , you have to be in a crouching position (a ledge, which using throwing knives would make one fall) or while climbing, it's not just from rooftops that is aerial.

They can only see you coming if you decide you want to get on a roof and spot them out, <span class="ev_code_GREEN">how about you not get on a roof 3 buildings away and let them see you?</span> It's your playing style that's the problem not people on roofs.
You are probably one of those same people who will sit and stare at you building to building and think by just sitting still I won't realize you have a contract for me.

I know you think it's unbalanced but im listening for ACTUAL reasons as to why, not just because it's too difficult for you fragile players to deal with. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
<span class="ev_code_RED">Um...hello??? That's not at all the same thing because there are NPCs everywhere to fool you. Your argument will be valid when NPCs are running on rooftops and jumping around.</span>

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">How are we supposed to know we're "3 buildings" away from our pursuer? The point of the defensive multiplayer is being aware of the movement of all surrounding characters because we don't know which one is our pursuer.</span>

Your ignorance blinds you from the truth.

obliviondoll
11-28-2010, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by Evan52395:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Not to mention you don't get acrobatic kills from rooftops 100% of the time, so no argument there either</span>
<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Whether there is a 100% chance or a 30% chance t, there's still a chance for extra points making it advantageous. There is an argument there. you are wrong.</span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry to mention, but this point has been covered.

100 point acrobatic bonus < 200 point hidden bonus.

Evan52395
11-28-2010, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by obliviondoll:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Evan52395:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Not to mention you don't get acrobatic kills from rooftops 100% of the time, so no argument there either</span>
<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Whether there is a 100% chance or a 30% chance t, there's still a chance for extra points making it advantageous. There is an argument there. you are wrong.</span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry to mention, but this point has been covered.

100 point acrobatic bonus < 200 point hidden bonus. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
But not all the ones we get on the ground are hidden bonuses. Losing a 200 point hidden bonus is worse than losing a 100 point aerial bonus.

obliviondoll
11-28-2010, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by Evan52395:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by obliviondoll:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Evan52395:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Not to mention you don't get acrobatic kills from rooftops 100% of the time, so no argument there either</span>
<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Whether there is a 100% chance or a 30% chance t, there's still a chance for extra points making it advantageous. There is an argument there. you are wrong.</span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry to mention, but this point has been covered.

100 point acrobatic bonus < 200 point hidden bonus. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
But not all the ones we get on the ground are hidden bonuses. Losing a 200 point hidden bonus is worse than losing a 100 point aerial bonus. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just so you know, I'm mostly a stealth player, and don't go on rooftops often.

Not certain what you mean by "losing the bonus is worse" though.

Hidden bonus is a situational "right place at the right time" bonus, so is the acrobatic bonus a rooftop player can get.

And also been mentioned earlier in the thread, there ISN'T an "aerial" bonus - "aerial kill" replaces the normal "kill" score, and is the same amount - it just flags that it was a kill from above, doesn't give you a bonus.

And when you're in a position to get "acrobatic" kills, you're also in a position to be knocked off the roof with throwing knives.

Evan52395
11-28-2010, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by obliviondoll:
Just so you know, I'm mostly a stealth player, and don't go on rooftops often.

Not certain what you mean by "losing the bonus is worse" though.

Hidden bonus is a situational "right place at the right time" bonus, so is the acrobatic bonus a rooftop player can get.

And also been mentioned earlier in the thread, there ISN'T an "aerial" bonus - "aerial kill" replaces the normal "kill" score, and is the same amount - it just flags that it was a kill from above, doesn't give you a bonus.

And when you're in a position to get "acrobatic" kills, you're also in a position to be knocked off the roof with throwing knives.
Oh, alright. I didn't feel like reading all the pages, so scratch that point of mine I guess. Thanks. I guess I'll go edit so when [if] he reads it, he doesn't repeat what's already been mentioned.

Slaterpipe
11-28-2010, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by Evan52395:

<span class="ev_code_RED">Um...hello??? That's not at all the same thing because there are NPCs everywhere to fool you. Your argument will be valid when NPCs are running on rooftops and jumping around.</span>

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">How are we supposed to know we're "3 buildings" away from our pursuer? The point of the defensive multiplayer is being aware of the movement of all surrounding characters because we don't know which one is our pursuer.</span>

Your ignorance blinds you from the truth.

Uh, where to start with this one holy, first of all, let me start with if you cannot tell you are 3 buildings away, then you should pay attention to the big circular blue thing in the middle of your screen CALLED A RADAR. Do I even need to respond to that? That's the best you got? How are we supposed to know when we are 3 buildings away? How about you ask me how you know who your target is(incase you do, it's the picture in the top right).

Ok maybe you missed the part where people on the ground can get a +200 hidden bonus that roofers can't in any way shape or form, if its 30% or 100% it's still advantageous. It's all simliar, no one is worse than the other you are just ignoring the benefits ground runners get over roofers.

obliviondoll
11-28-2010, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Evan52395:
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">How are we supposed to know we're "3 buildings" away from our pursuer? The point of the defensive multiplayer is being aware of the movement of all surrounding characters because we don't know which one is our pursuer.</span>
Uh, where to start with this one holy, first of all, let me start with if you cannot tell you are 3 buildings away, then you should pay attention to the big circular blue thing in the middle of your screen CALLED A RADAR. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Really... Your target is your pursuer now?

He's saying you don't know when you're 3 building over from your PURSUER when you climb.

Which is actually exactly where the risk comes in for going on rooftops, and why it's not that unfair after all.

Slaterpipe
11-29-2010, 12:03 AM
Guess I didn't read it throughly but my first post he was responding to was me talking about going after your target and going up 3 buildings away and staring at them. So he changed what I originally said I just went with it.

Slaterpipe
11-29-2010, 12:07 AM
So again, to the many including deafathiest who wanted to discuss the imbalanced part of roofing im still up for discussing anymore points you have regarding the matter.

DeafAtheist
11-29-2010, 01:13 AM
Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
Wrong, there is 1 challenge for spending 120 seconds blended inside hiding spots / groups for a session. That is NOT 120 seconds STRAIGHT its 120 out of the 10 mins of the game total, and on that note if you didn't want people running around why would they have challenges for killing contracts within 15 seconds of getting it? Getting 2 incognito kills in 1 min? I know when I have 3 on me sometimes someone gets a contract for me that's already like 10 feet away I guess you are just one of those lucky kids because I never get a contract for ANYONE within screen distance from me.

I've gotten kills within 15 seconds of receiving a contract without running.


How do you get aerial + acrobatic kills without being on top of roofs? Hmm no challenges at all for being on top of roofs huh.

#1 I never said people shouldn't go up there at all. They just shouldn't stay up there thru the whole game. #2 I didn't say there were no challenges that could be done from rooftops. I said there were no challenges for spending time on the rooftops. #3 You don't need to be on the rooftops to perform an aerial kill. You can get an aerial kill from anywhere that is elevated over your target.



You getting those done by walking around? Doubt it.

Yes as a matter of fact I do. Every kill I make I walk to. I don't even run to close distance between my target and myself as most players do.. I only run if my pursuer is a runner who initiates a chase or they are in high profile and I don't have an available ability to use against them I will run before the chase is initiated.


Now you even admit not playing it that much, so as someone who has played more time than you and thus by EXPERIENCE there is no unbalanced play in roof running.

27 hours of multiplayer is plenty of time to get used to how the game works. Especially since I tend to podium finish in 90% of my games. Really, how much more experience than me could you possibly have? 50 hours? 100? Allow me to humbly bow down to your extensive experience and kiss the perfect ground you walk upon.


You argue hiding in groups etc can be countered by abilities and roof running can't and that's why it's unbalanced.

Hidden gun, 100% of that ability is killing roof runners,throwing knives make roof runners fall, just because YOU don't to use it and get 100 points doesn't mean you can't, and thats more than 100 if you use the knives.

Targets can use Hidden Gun and knives against roof camping pursuers? This is news to me. Has there been a title update patch since I've been away from my Xbox that I didn't know about? I'm gonna assume the answer to that is "no". Sorry but I don't feel too comfortable waiting for a roof camping pursuer's pursuer to kill him with a hidden gun or throw a knife at him. I'd feel more comfortable being able to use defensive abilities against pursuers, stun, smoke, charge... etc. These things don't work from the ground against an aerial assassination. All you can do is watch as the camera changes to sky view as your target leaps off the top of a roof on to your back. No defense against that whatsoever.

You haven't pointed out anything unbalanced with it, you simply like the abilities you use and don't want to use others such as the gun.


I don't want to use morph and such but I'm not suggesting it's unbalanced. You haven't played enough to know, and guess what, finishing 4-8th or whatever isn't the same as being in 1st or 2nd place THE ENTIRE TIME OF THE MATCH, NOT GETTING A 2x KILL TO GET UP TO 1-3. I'm talking from experience of being in 1st, or 2nd ALL 10 MINUTES OF THE GAME.

I've done that dude. I was just saying that even IF I lose my 1st-3rd place position temporarily I could easily get it back in one kill. I HAVE had 3 pursuers on me throughout the entire match several times and I don't need to camp on rooftops to avoid them. I'm skilled enough with stuns, disguises, morphs, blends, and other defensive abilities to shake them most of the time. And I've stayed thru entire matches in 1st place many times.



So you argue abilities can counter morpher's etc but can't roof runners, totally wrong 100% no argument cant counter that the gun can kill roof runners.

Once again dude the Hidden gun isn't a counter. It's not a defensive ability. It's an offensive one and can only be used against a target, not a pursuer. Targets who are on the ground have NO effective defenses against an aerial kill.


So what do you do? Suggest in multiple posts that the gun should get you more points? No, you simply want roof running out / loss of points.

No because that's a stupid idea. There are weak players that use the gun to kill a target from only a short range on the ground just to successfully kill a better player to avoid being stunned by them. If the gun got more points every idiot would be using it and it would turn ACB into friggin' COD. Screw that. Besides the hidden gun does not address the issue of defenses against roofers because it's an offensive ability.


Also let me use your logic (by that I mean the lack thereof) and say just because you walk around on the ground doesn't mean you're a better player than a roofer.

Not necessarily, no. The roofer could be an excellent stealth player who just chooses to exploit the roofs, but I would assume that a player who sucks at stealth and chooses the rooftops because exploiting an unbalanced game mechanic is the only way they can win a worse player than me regardless of how much better their stats are than mine.


I say I'm better than you based on your play style, I analyze who the real one can be very quickly and don't waste time doing so, I say I'm better than you because I feel 100% the way you play you would never ever, ever, finish above me in a game. Regardless if I run on roofs or not, it could be castel gandolfo, it doesn't matter.

You're saying that you don't think I could even place ahead of you even once in a match? I'd gladly take that bet dude. But only in a Ranked Wanted Match without mics. Ranked because friends can't join and no mics so you can't get other players to give up my present location in the game. I wouldn't be so bold as to say you could never beat me. I'm sure you probably could especially being a roofer, but even being a roofer I bet I could beat you in some games, maybe not all, but some.


I wish I could see the challenge progress and stats of others, because I can gaurantee I have more challenges done both speedy kills, slow kills, stuns, whatever, In any such case I probably have completed 10x more than you.

Perhaps you have simply because you've played more than I have.


oddly enough the exact challenge you mentioned requiring 120 seconds of blending I've completed 8/20 of the step im on out of hmm like 400 sessions?

Well I've only done a bit under 200 sessions.


So even with my moving around and what not I still manage to blend and move with groups alot, just because it's not 5 minutes of the 10 minutes doesn't mean im using an unbalanced means of scoring higher points.

That's good dude. That's the way it should be. I don't have a problem with players who use the rooftops sometimes. I have a problem with players who LIVE up there and exploit it. But based on what you say here you apparently don't do that. If your balancing your gameplay then you're indeed a decent player and I have nothing against using rooftop strategies moderately.


What's funny is I care so little about my own stats is I let my friends play who have put up about 50 sessions on my account scoring 1000 points or less in each. EVEN with this, im sure my stats are still better than yours.

Sure it was your "friends" who gave you crappy stats. *smiles & nods*

Even if that's true you have at least 200 more games played than I do.


My problem with this thread and many others, is like you admit, and most others who post these probably have hardly spent ANY time playing, had a rough time chasing someone on a roof and simply come here to cry about it.

I don't have a hard time chasing people on roofs. I rarely ever initiate chases. 95% of my kills are stealth kills even of rooftop players. I just catch them off guard for an incognito kill on the roof netting me 400-800 pts on average per kill. But based on the experience I have with the game I can see that rooftop camping is exploiting an unbalanced tactic. So I'm just pointing out a fact and offering suggestions for a fix. Not to punish roofers because I can't catch them, but such changes would effect ALL players. For instance if a high fall caused an injury or death that could effect someone who is going up there to chase a roofer just as much if not more than the roofer. The roofer could escape using one of the chase breakers that fall when you step on them causing the person chasing them to fall due to the gap being to far to reach to jump. Making a high fall have consequences is just adding more realism to the game. I think it's stupid that you are just as safe jumping to the ground as you are doing a leap of faith into a hay cart. It makes the leap of faith obsolete and unnecessary unless used as a quick hiding spot to escape a chase.


If you've barely netted 1d played or even reached 50, guess what, you are not as experienced as you think in how this game and each map goes, since reaching 50 I probably average double the points I did before then, and half of that is how much less problem I have picking out picking who are disguised and hiding.

I'm not that far from 50 dude. I'm at 43 and I'll probably hit 50 within another day or 2 of playing depending on how much time I have to play during those 2 days. I leveled up from 40 to 43 in only about 3 hours of playing.


Also I saw another of your posts somewhere but am too lazy to find it to quote you but you said something about not being able to stun people who are high profile chasing you without using an ability to stop + stun them like smoke bombs.
Also incorrect, I choose disguise over morph and find it much much more reliable. My favorite time to use disguise is when im being chased in high profile, they usually panic to find you once they've lost you around a corner and it makes it very easy to stun them for a 300 point stun for the stun + escape, rather than sit in a morph group and stun for just 200.

No, I'm not incorrect. It's a fact that you can NOT stun a player in high profile. What you described, turning a corner and using a disguise would confuse them enough to slow down enough that they are no longer in high profile. Point of fact is if you can see the red marker over their head they are in high profile and therefore can't be stunned until the red marker disappears unless you use Charge ability. That is the ONLY way to stun a high profile player that still has the red marker over their head.

Slaterpipe
11-29-2010, 01:44 AM
Wrong wrong wrong, I've stunned many people RUNNING by as im disguised as long as you get them from the back/side it works even in high profile, so yes you are wrong.

Most of that was worthless reading as I see you still using the word exploiters but give no real reasoning to why you refer to it in such a way.

Yes I would take that bet that you would never finish above me in a game, ever.

I don't care if you don't believe my friends played on my account, that's fine, becasue my first week my average score was 2900 now its above 4000 and just climbing, you can check it next week to see.

What's wrong with giving the hidden gun more points? Why not give it the ability to get a focus kill? Why not just increase the points and give it a 2+ min cooldown? More of what im seeing is simply you talking about the abilities you WANT to use instead of the abilities you CAN use. I suppose it's just your feeble brain that can't comprehend changing a few things to balance it out.

Why not be able to get focus kills with it? Why not get savior / poacher kills with it? Make the cooldown 2 mins you can only use it 5 times max and you could also give it a limited range, just examples of how to fix something properly other than complain something is exploiting with no reasoning behind it still.

PLEASE I CAN'T STAND ANYMORE OF YOUR EXCUSES FOR WHY YOU USING MORPH IS A MUST AND NOTHING ELSE CAN BE USED IN THAT ABILITY SLOT. JUST POST WHY ITS INBALANCED, THAT IS ALL.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DONT POST 500 WORD ESSAY OF WORTHLESSNESS, PLEASE JUST POST FACTUAL REASONS WHY ROOF RUNNING IS EXPLOITING.

Before you post please read this:
ex·ploit (ksploit, k-sploit)
n.
An act or deed, especially a brilliant or heroic one. See Synonyms at feat1.
tr.v. (k-sploit, ksploit) ex·ploit·ed, ex·ploit·ing, ex·ploits
1. To employ to the greatest possible advantage: exploit one's talents.
2. To make use of selfishly or unethically: a country that exploited peasant labor. See Synonyms at manipulate.
3. To advertise; promote.

1. You play to your strength and let others play to there's, as we've indicated there is no difference in points. You play as your lame morph'd group and let others do what they want.

2.Please explain anything "unethical" about it that would cause it to be exploiting.

Slaterpipe
11-29-2010, 01:46 AM
Oh let me add this, if you wish to get like 3-4 people in a game just to test the high profile stun theory you have, I would be more than glad to assist in showing you how wrong you are, just how every point you made so far is wrong and one sided.

ADDDITION

adding this as a reference

Here's your quote to my notion of the gun:

No because that's a stupid idea. There are weak players that use the gun to kill a target from only a short range on the ground just to successfully kill a better player to avoid being stunned by them. If the gun got more points every idiot would be using it and it would turn ACB into friggin' COD. Screw that. Besides the hidden gun does not address the issue of defenses against roofers because it's an offensive ability.

My reply to this nonsense

So now you refer to weak players using guns because they dont want to talk up to a morph'd group and get smoked + stun'd, sounds like you just call them weaker because you sat in your huddle for 3 minutes and just ended up getting shot.

That entire post is you calling someone weaker because they used a gun to kill you instead of coming up to get stunned, SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD STRATEGY TO ME

Suprise suprise, not every single ability in the game needs to be a defensive one, what kind of reasoning is that? I can't use poison against pursuers oh no, stupid.

DeafAtheist
11-29-2010, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
DeafAthiest should also stop throwing around the word exploiters since you apparently don't know the meaning of it. Since there is no big white memory barrier atop of each building im going to assume going on rooftops was intended therefor not an exploit.

Based on that statement dude YOU don't know what "exploit" means. Exploit doesn't mean to do something you are unable to do. If there was a barrier you wouldn't be able to go up there at all. And just because it it is allowed doesn't mean it's not unbalanced. So allow me to school you here...

"Exploit" means to employ the greatest possible advantage or to make use of something selfishly or unethically. So considering that spending a lot of time on the rooftops performing aerial kills for high points while being located in a place where a pursuer is much less likely to be able to approach you stealthily unless you're not paying attention is exploiting an advantage. So I repeat it doesn't mean doing something you're not supposed to do. I means doing something that is possible, just unethical. You yourself have even admitted in an earlier post in here that you choose to be on the rooftops so you can survive longer. That's basically an admittance that it is harder to kill you when you are on the rooftops... not because you're so skilled at the game but because on the rooftops you can see a pursuer approach you due to the fact that he or she sticks out... a lone persona walking towards you isn't likely to be approaching you to engage in small talk about the weather while a lone persona walking towards you on the ground could very well be an NPC. The rooftops provide rewards for a relatively low risk and using that to an advantage is indeed an exploitation based on the definition of the word.

Slaterpipe
11-29-2010, 02:04 AM
Originally posted by DeafAtheist:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
DeafAthiest should also stop throwing around the word exploiters since you apparently don't know the meaning of it. Since there is no big white memory barrier atop of each building im going to assume going on rooftops was intended therefor not an exploit.

Based on that statement dude YOU don't know what "exploit" means. Exploit doesn't mean to do something you are unable to do. If there was a barrier you wouldn't be able to go up there at all. And just because it it is allowed doesn't mean it's not unbalanced. So allow me to school you here...

"Exploit" means to employ the greatest possible advantage or to make use of something selfishly or unethically. So considering that spending a lot of time on the rooftops performing aerial kills for high points while being located in a place where a pursuer is much less likely to be able to approach you stealthily unless you're not paying attention is exploiting an advantage. So I repeat it doesn't mean doing something you're not supposed to do. I means doing something that is possible, just unethical. You yourself have even admitted in an earlier post in here that you choose to be on the rooftops so you can survive longer. That's basically an admittance that it is harder to kill you when you are on the rooftops... not because you're so skilled at the game but because on the rooftops you can see a pursuer approach you due to the fact that he or she sticks out... a lone persona walking towards you isn't likely to be approaching you to engage in small talk about the weather while a lone persona walking towards you on the ground could very well be an NPC. The rooftops provide rewards for a relatively low risk and using that to an advantage is indeed an exploitation based on the definition of the word. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

More garbage, yet again you didn't give any REASONS to why just simply saying you survive longer, that's what makes an exploit? Holy crap?

UNLESS you want to walk around with a group of morph'd clones walking around with 3 pursuers gets you nothing but dead, because guess what, unlike you I don't get targets 15 seconds away in walking distance, I get the person who just spawned farthest away with 3 people on me in between, so again, stop forcing others to do your stupid morph strat, if you don't have morph or another similar ability walking around with 3 pursuers get's you dead real fast.

You want me to walk to my target and die 6 times in a row so I can drop out of first? That doesn't sound like a good strategy to me.

AND LET ME PUT THIS IN CAPS INCASE YOU MISSED IT BEFORE SINCE YOU SEEM TO THINK AERIAL KILLS DO SOMETHING, THEY DON'T. YOU GET THE SILENCE + AERIAL INSTEAD OF A REGULAR KILL, IT'S THE REGULAR BONUS, NOTHING MORE, IT'S A REGULAR KILL OK, SO PLEASE STOP SAYING IT GIVES YOU EXTRA POINTS, IT DOESN'T.

So again, no paragraphs, no nothing, just list actual reasons why you believe its imbalanced because right now all you keep doing is describing HOW you LIKE to play.

Bah forgot to add this again since you probably missed it, and it's important you address this.

ADDDITION

adding this as a reference

Here's your quote to my notion of the gun:

No because that's a stupid idea. There are weak players that use the gun to kill a target from only a short range on the ground just to successfully kill a better player to avoid being stunned by them. If the gun got more points every idiot would be using it and it would turn ACB into friggin' COD. Screw that. Besides the hidden gun does not address the issue of defenses against roofers because it's an offensive ability.

My reply to this nonsense

So now you refer to weak players using guns because they dont want to talk up to a morph'd group and get smoked + stun'd, sounds like you just call them weaker because you sat in your huddle for 3 minutes and just ended up getting shot.

That entire post is you calling someone weaker because they used a gun to kill you instead of coming up to get stunned, SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD STRATEGY TO ME

Suprise suprise, not every single ability in the game needs to be a defensive one, what kind of reasoning is that? I can't use poison against pursuers oh no, stupid.

obliviondoll
11-29-2010, 02:50 AM
Few things for both sides...

Firstly, supporting rooftops.

You're hard to counter from the ground when you're on the roof.

This is a legitimate concern that needs balance.

For example: It's very difficult to get a 600+ point kill from the roof, unlike on the ground.

On rooftops, you're forced to move fast most of the time to avoid being exposed to, and caught by, your pursuer before they reach you.

Which doesn't quite eliminate, but almost eliminates, incognito bonuses.

And, like Slaterpipe said, aerial kill is in place of the normal kill score, it's not a bonus.

Remove the ability to get hidden kills, and players on rooftops are going to be getting 300 points less per kill than players on the ground, assuming both players are skilled.

Acrobatic gives +100, so that means you're behind by 200, but then you add in the ability to use poison at point blank but not from an elevation, and that means stealth players have 400 points worth of bonuses available to them that rooftop players can't take advantage of nearly as well.

On the defensive vs. rooftop side, though, this is a little difficult, because saying "use hidden gun" doesn't let you target the pursuer - but throwing knives CAN. Saying hidden gun should get more points is wrong though - the hidden gun would get exploited if it earned more points. As it stands, it's a balanced ability.

Countering a player on the rooftop is best accomplished by the same methods used to prevent any pursuer identifying you.

DeafAtheist
11-29-2010, 02:53 AM
More garbage, yet again you didn't give any REASONS to why just simply saying you survive longer, that's what makes an exploit? Holy crap?

Can you not read? Let me spell it out for you then...

-An aerial kill nets 400-450 pts on average without additional bonuses.

-Aerial kills can NOT be countered by your target. You can't stun someone on the roof from the ground. You can't stop the assassination with smoke... etc. There is no effective defense against an aerial assassination.

-NPCs do not go on the rooftops so anyone walking towards you is most likely a pursuer this gives you an advantage over the pursuers that you wouldn't have on the ground.

So in conclusion here the reason why rooftop camping exploits the game is because you have both an advantage over your pursuers AND your targets. You don't have the same advantage on the ground.

Let's read that definition of "exploit" again...

1. To employ to the greatest possible advantage

Seems to me that roof camping fits the definition of "exploit".


UNLESS you want to walk around with a group of morph'd clones walking around with 3 pursuers gets you nothing but dead, because guess what, unlike you I don't get targets 15 seconds away in walking distance, I get the person who just spawned farthest away with 3 people on me in between, so again, stop forcing others to do your stupid morph strat, if you don't have morph or another similar ability walking around with 3 pursuers get's you dead real fast.

Getting to my target within 15 seconds walking doesn't happen very often. Most of my targets are usually halfway across the map. I was just saying it's possible to get one within 15 seconds walking not just those that spawn close but also those who run towards you.

I'm not forcing anyone do to anything and like I said I personally use Disguise more than Morph myself. I simply want to see the rooftops be more fairly balanced. I don't care if people play up there. I just want to see a more balanced risk vs reward than the system currently in place.


You want me to walk to my target and die 6 times in a row so I can drop out of first? That doesn't sound like a good strategy to me.

No. I've said it before and I'll say it again... I don't have a problem with people using the rooftops moderately. I only have a problem with players who camp up there just to take advantage of the fact that rooftops provide you with an advantage over both pursuers and targets. By all means go up there sometimes especially when you're waiting for your abilities to be ready to use again.


AND LET ME PUT THIS IN CAPS INCASE YOU MISSED IT BEFORE SINCE YOU SEEM TO THINK AERIAL KILLS DO SOMETHING, THEY DON'T. YOU GET THE SILENCE + AERIAL INSTEAD OF A REGULAR KILL, IT'S THE REGULAR BONUS, NOTHING MORE, IT'S A REGULAR KILL OK, SO PLEASE STOP SAYING IT GIVES YOU EXTRA POINTS, IT DOESN'T.

Dude a kill is 100 pts. You get an average of 400 to 450 pts for an aerial kill. Seems to me you're getting a bit more than just an acrobatic and silent bonus.


So again, no paragraphs, no nothing, just list actual reasons why you believe its imbalanced because right now all you keep doing is describing HOW you LIKE to play.

I've given reasons why it's imbalanced in nearly every post I've made in this thread including this one. Pay attention or maybe get your vision checked or take a remedial reading course or something. Anything that would allow me to stop having to repeat myself like a broken record in here.


Bah forgot to add this again since you probably missed it, and it's important you address this.

ADDDITION

adding this as a reference

Here's your quote to my notion of the gun:

No because that's a stupid idea. There are weak players that use the gun to kill a target from only a short range on the ground just to successfully kill a better player to avoid being stunned by them. If the gun got more points every idiot would be using it and it would turn ACB into friggin' COD. Screw that. Besides the hidden gun does not address the issue of defenses against roofers because it's an offensive ability.

My reply to this nonsense

So now you refer to weak players using guns because they dont want to talk up to a morph'd group and get smoked + stun'd, sounds like you just call them weaker because you sat in your huddle for 3 minutes and just ended up getting shot.

That entire post is you calling someone weaker because they used a gun to kill you instead of coming up to get stunned, SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD STRATEGY TO ME

Where in that quote of mine did I post about being morphed? Nowhere. I didn't mention morph at all in that post so why the hell do you keep bringing morph up? I've been shot from less than 10 feet away from a pursuer without even using a disguise or being near any NPCs. They did this because they knew that getting close to me would result in being stunned because I had stunned the same player 2 or 3 times in the same game.

So please stop putting words in my mouth and making idiotic assumptions about how you think I play.

And if you think it's a good strategy to shoot someone in the back from less than 10 feet away who isn't disguised or morphed or blended is a good strategy then I'm definitely willing to take you up on your challenge that I couldn't beat you ever in a game.


Suprise suprise, not every single ability in the game needs to be a defensive one, what kind of reasoning is that? I can't use poison against pursuers oh no, stupid.

Dude what the heck are you even talking about here? I never said that all the abilities had to be defensive. Where do you get that inane BS from? I said that the Hidden Gun is an offensive ability and therefore can't be used by a target against a pursuer on a rooftop it can only be used against your own target therefore it's NOT a defensive counter against an aerial assassination. If you're going to quote me on stuff please pay attention to what I'm saying it will prevent you from looking like an idiot.

Slaterpipe
11-29-2010, 03:17 AM
Short in simple, where are these 400-500 points coming from for aerial kills, its usually silent 200+ aerial = 300 PLEASE EXPLAIN WHERE THE OTHER 100-200 is coming from, it's 400 for a incognito which is unlikely from the roof. You probably just are being focus'd alot as well since you walk around like a turtle.

AT MOST it's 400 unless it's acrobatic, which described before is no worse than someone on the ground either using poison or a hidden bonus, you act like killing from the roof nets you double points for no reason.

Are they hanging out on a ledge waiting for an acrobatic? Throw a knife wow.

On that note, anyone else think you should get a +50 wounded bonus for knife kills?

Bludger_au
11-29-2010, 04:54 AM
Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
So again, to the many including deafathiest who wanted to discuss the imbalanced part of roofing im still up for discussing anymore points you have regarding the matter.

I make this simple and short... for you.

Risk versus reward is skewed in favour of roofers.

Your risk is lessened being on a roof, for a return that isn't in balance for the risk you expose yourself to.

Its about balance, and the current situation is not balanced.

Cry foul all you like as your precious play style receives the spotlight & your reliance & abuse of this game mechanic is put in jeopardy, because the more you respond on this thread the greater the attention this issue receives, and what may follow is dev attention sooner rather than later.

Flame away stat boy.

Slaterpipe
11-29-2010, 05:10 AM
Originally posted by Rippah72:


I make this simple and short... for you.

Risk versus reward is skewed in favour of roofers.

Your risk is lessened being on a roof, for a return that isn't in balance for the risk you expose yourself to.

Its about balance, and the current situation is not balanced.

Cry foul all you like as your precious play style receives the spotlight & your reliance & abuse of this game mechanic is put in jeopardy, because the more you respond on this thread the greater the attention this issue receives, and what may follow is dev attention sooner rather than later.

Flame away stat boy.

Explain how risk vs reward is greater, we've already discussed good and bad for both,there isn't one.

Evan52395
11-29-2010, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
So again, to the many including deafathiest who wanted to discuss the imbalanced part of roofing im still up for discussing anymore points you have regarding the matter.
Try to avoid double posting. It's against forum rules.

Note: Try reading what I say before looking like a fool.

Peace out!

luth411
11-29-2010, 09:36 AM
Unfortunately, there is yet to be any clear, objective argument that demonstrates anything other than the fact that some of you players struggle with pursuers from the roofs. That must be a bummer, I hope you can eventually come up with effective strategies to counter this like others have. This is about all that Ubisoft or anyone else can tell you.

I see the people who are complaining about this in my matches. I know why they get schooled by roof top people- they're terrible.

The only times I get killed from above occur when I've left the crowd and I'm walking alone through an alley or chase breaker, etc. If you're doing this...you are easily identified from the ground or the roof. Just because your pursuer came from above doesn't mean they wouldn't have spotted you on the ground.

luth411
11-29-2010, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by Rippah72:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
So again, to the many including deafathiest who wanted to discuss the imbalanced part of roofing im still up for discussing anymore points you have regarding the matter.

I make this simple and short... for you.

Risk versus reward is skewed in favour of roofers.

Your risk is lessened being on a roof, for a return that isn't in balance for the risk you expose yourself to.

Its about balance, and the current situation is not balanced.

Cry foul all you like as your precious play style receives the spotlight & your reliance & abuse of this game mechanic is put in jeopardy, because the more you respond on this thread the greater the attention this issue receives, and what may follow is dev attention sooner rather than later.

Flame away stat boy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a good example of what I just posted. What is it you're trying to say? You need to more rigorously deduce your points, otherwise you just sound like someone struggling with a particular aspect of gameplay.

A players risk of being caught is clearly increased by climbing up to a roof. The compass indicates proximity and line of sight, and it's obvious that the persona you're looking for is appearing on the roof and must be the contract. NPCs do not climb.

A players chances of catching the contract are neutral at best. Players on the rooftops are obviously searching the immediate area for a target. They can be spotted easily from the ground both by looking up and by looking at the shadows they cast on the ground.

Furthermore, they are limited in routes they can use to approach the contract. If you're across the courtyard, they will have to come down. If you're directly under them with no identical persona nearby...you're an easy target for anyone- ground or roofs.

The advantages gained by searching for contracts from the rooftop are only as beneficial as permitted by the contract. If you turn a corner into the pursuers line of sight and it's just you...they will clearly see which model is the player (just as if they were standing on the ground in the same area).

If you're trying to make a point of imbalance (generalized beyond the individuals experiences) you need to theorize why all of our strategies don't work (which they do). I will start to record my experience and bring it back here for the community. But at first guess, I would say my ratio of being caught by the pursuer to fooling the pursuer is about 1:2. It's rare that I see death coming from above unless I've gotten careless.

And yes...you do have to convince me as well as the developers and the community. Otherwise, you're just whining.

Slaterpipe
11-29-2010, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by mpagano411:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rippah72:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
So again, to the many including deafathiest who wanted to discuss the imbalanced part of roofing im still up for discussing anymore points you have regarding the matter.

I make this simple and short... for you.

Risk versus reward is skewed in favour of roofers.

Your risk is lessened being on a roof, for a return that isn't in balance for the risk you expose yourself to.

Its about balance, and the current situation is not balanced.

Cry foul all you like as your precious play style receives the spotlight & your reliance & abuse of this game mechanic is put in jeopardy, because the more you respond on this thread the greater the attention this issue receives, and what may follow is dev attention sooner rather than later.

Flame away stat boy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a good example of what I just posted. What is it you're trying to say? You need to more rigorously deduce your points, otherwise you just sound like someone struggling with a particular aspect of gameplay.

A players risk of being caught is clearly increased by climbing up to a roof. The compass indicates proximity and line of sight, and it's obvious that the persona you're looking for is appearing on the roof and must be the contract. NPCs do not climb.

A players chances of catching the contract are neutral at best. Players on the rooftops are obviously searching the immediate area for a target. They can be spotted easily from the ground both by looking up and by looking at the shadows they cast on the ground.

Furthermore, they are limited in routes they can use to approach the contract. If you're across the courtyard, they will have to come down. If you're directly under them with no identical persona nearby...you're an easy target for anyone- ground or roofs.

The advantages gained by searching for contracts from the rooftop are only as beneficial as permitted by the contract. If you turn a corner into the pursuers line of sight and it's just you...they will clearly see which model is the player (just as if they were standing on the ground in the same area).

If you're trying to make a point of imbalance (generalized beyond the individuals experiences) you need to theorize why all of our strategies don't work (which they do). I will start to record my experience and bring it back here for the community. But at first guess, I would say my ratio of being caught by the pursuer to fooling the pursuer is about 1:2. It's rare that I see death coming from above unless I've gotten careless.

And yes...you do have to convince me as well as the developers and the community. Otherwise, you're just whining. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

mpagano411 stop making sensible posts, they don't like that, they just like to say it's imbalanced and not provide reasoning just simply say it's an advantage for roofers with make believe points.

As I said originally as you mentioned, it IS bad kids whining about it, bottom line, sorry whoever wants to call me a stat ***** or whatever, fact is the one's whining average 3k points or less (not good).

Now they will simply post and whine saying they score so few points simply because roofing is so imbalanced, and thus more posts just whining without actually discussing why.

Anything we've already discussed they brought up as a problem has already been covered and no imbalances found.

luth411
11-29-2010, 02:51 PM
Yeah I know I almost got someone's mother pulled into another thread. Can we get some forum rules that require at least a basic understanding of axiomatic reasoning?

obliviondoll
11-29-2010, 06:17 PM
Never going to happen, mpagano - will remove too many people from the forums. They'd die off.

Besides, the occasional post like yours reaffirms my faith in humanity, and the rest reassure me that my general attitude (you're all FOOD) is appropriate 90 % of the time.

You help keep things in perspective, and occasionally someone will take you seriously.

As for DeafAtheist, you know I'm not a runner myself, you probably know that I'm open about being only an average-skilled player, and you've seen my comments in this thread about running.

I have to recommend you TRY going on the rooftops sometime. See how well you do. You might be surprised how much of a challenge it really is. You might be surprised how often you find yourself wishing that you could get a 700 - 900 point kill like you can on the ground, instead of the fairly hard 400 point cap (barring variety bonuses, which are much more likely with more time spent on the ground).

Without going to rooftops at all, I've managed Greater Variety bonus in matches quite often.

With rooftop kills only, I've managed one Variety, and no Greater Variety.

Switching it up a little has earned me my first, and so far only, Extreme Variety bonus.

Throw in a rooftop run/kill or two in a few games - give yourself those bonuses.

When you can land a good rooftop kill, you'll understand their 400 points is well-earned. But you won't be willing to give up your 700 point slow poison kill to go there consistently.

DeafAtheist
11-29-2010, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by Slaterpipe:
Short in simple, where are these 400-500 points coming from for aerial kills, its usually silent 200+ aerial = 300 PLEASE EXPLAIN WHERE THE OTHER 100-200 is coming from, it's 400 for a incognito which is unlikely from the roof. You probably just are being focus'd alot as well since you walk around like a turtle.

AT MOST it's 400 unless it's acrobatic, which described before is no worse than someone on the ground either using poison or a hidden bonus, you act like killing from the roof nets you double points for no reason.

Are they hanging out on a ledge waiting for an acrobatic? Throw a knife wow.

On that note, anyone else think you should get a +50 wounded bonus for knife kills?

Of all the aerial kills I've done I've usually gotten 400 or 450 for each. You don't automatically lose Incognito on the rooftop unless you're running. If you're just walking on the rooftops and perform an aerial kill on your target you'll easily get the Incognito bonus.

But yeah it's more commonly 400 pts than 450 so I'll give you that. The extra 50 is probably due to a poacher bonus or something.

DeafAtheist
11-29-2010, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by obliviondoll:As for DeafAtheist, you know I'm not a runner myself, you probably know that I'm open about being only an average-skilled player, and you've seen my comments in this thread about running.

I have to recommend you TRY going on the rooftops sometime. See how well you do. You might be surprised how much of a challenge it really is. You might be surprised how often you find yourself wishing that you could get a 700 - 900 point kill like you can on the ground, instead of the fairly hard 400 point cap (barring variety bonuses, which are much more likely with more time spent on the ground).

Without going to rooftops at all, I've managed Greater Variety bonus in matches quite often.

With rooftop kills only, I've managed one Variety, and no Greater Variety.

Switching it up a little has earned me my first, and so far only, Extreme Variety bonus.

Throw in a rooftop run/kill or two in a few games - give yourself those bonuses.

When you can land a good rooftop kill, you'll understand their 400 points is well-earned. But you won't be willing to give up your 700 point slow poison kill to go there consistently.

Yeah I saw the stats you posted. Admittedly yours are a bit better than mine. Mine are close to yours but that's without taking into consideration that I am now a 44 level and you are a 35 (or at least you were at the time you posted your stats in here).

Sure it's harder to get 700-800 pt kills on the rooftops unless your target comes on the roof and you can poison him or perform a regular incognito kill but the offset is that being on the rooftops make YOU harder to kill than you would be on the ground because on the ground a persona approaching you could very well be an NPC. No chance of that happening on the rooftops.

I'm not trying to imply that rooftops are grossly unbalanced. I would just like to see at the very least an injury from falling not only to even out the balance but simply because I think it's stupid that you can jump off the top of the high building in Venice and land on the ground with no consequences... if you can do that then what the heck are leaps of faith for?

At least high fall injuries should be in the advanced modes if not in the regular ones.

If there were injuries from falls implemented then I'd be satisfied with the balance of the rooftops. I don't think that's too much to ask.

Bludger_au
11-29-2010, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by mpagano411:



And yes...you do have to convince me as well as the developers and the community. Otherwise, you're just whining.

No mate, I don't have to convince you of anything... nor do I expect to. You are in for some disappointment if you think axiomatic reasoning will earn you kudos or be a determining factor in a gamer’s forum.

Your need for axiomatic reasoning, to theorize strategies are laughable kid, and best left in the classroom. It’s a gamers forum, in here the devs do not need to logically derived theorems to arrive at a decision...it’s usually down to a business decision, with the almighty dollar & the majority rule that wins.

Your lack of insight as to the functionality of gamers & online gaming is a shining example of why you kiddo are also joke.

Your classroom antics of model theories mean nothing compared to an angry mob of torch & pitchfork wielding gamers calling for change... in fact this is often how change occurs in online games resulting in nerfs, patches and updates… change occurs not because gamers have rationalized and theorized what is best, but because for most of us this is how we spend our R&R and enough people cite an issue and say hey this is crap & it needs to be fixed. And so it gets fixed. If a hundred gamers post just two words "fix it" for every one of your analytical responses your SOL.

Now with that being said, I am not against roofing and enjoy it on some maps more than others. What I am asking for is balance. My play style is adaptive, I roof, I stealth, I run when required. I have experienced the different aspects and have to say roofing is not balanced, but nor is it an automatic win by any means, a couple of points;

As a roofer or particularly a roof camper you don’t risk or deal with a hunter in a blend group coming at you. You don’t risk an escape through crowds that could harbor a potential hunter(s), you minimize the risk of a hunter scoring a hidden score against you, as there’s no crowds to support it on a roof. You have greater mobility on a roof to advance to your target or to retreat from your hunter.

The suggestion that you stick out like dogs balls perched on a roof is a two edged sword. It means you have a vantage point over your target and your hunter probably needs to join you as a ball sack up onto the roof in order to shank you, which also gives you further advantage over your hunter. As obvious as you are on a roof, so is your hunter. And if you are unable to see the hunter, when you hear whispers, it doesn’t matter which way you retreat on a roof as it does on the ground, just stay away from the roof edges.

As a roofer, your less likely to get an attack from above, your risk is lessened. And the speed that you can attack from above is greater than the speed you can attack from below.

The scoring that is available to you as a rooftop hunter compared to that which is against you as a rooftop hunted is out of whack. The reward outstrips the risk… it’s often why players are up there.

The speed and mobility you have to turn over a higher number of targets and escape hunters is imbalanced with the rewards available compared to other play styles. Its why roof campers exist and need balance… not removal.

Now mpag, feel free to dissect & scrutinize this post as I'm sure you will. Indulge your self in any attempt to rip this posts a new one, as your contribution to this topic, your posts & your views put towards the thread will likely ultimately serve to only highlight this as an issue for dev discussion - with the more attention you and others provide, the sooner this is likely to occur, for this I thank you.

ekulnnud
11-29-2010, 11:03 PM
maybe a 10-20 second timer which only resets after you die and when u reach the time limit u lose 100ps a second or just die

uki2010
11-30-2010, 03:59 AM
Been reading this thread and i think roof camping is imbalanced too, to many advantages not many disadvantages and kinda ruines the experience.

Ive been thinking bout this as avid gamer and programmer what solutions could be as well as reading the solutions in this thread.

The fall cripple / hard landing mechanic seems decent at first but i dont think its going to work. As it doesnt fix roof campers, only bad roof campers who dont know how to get an aerial. Secondly while in chase if you jump of a roof in a spaz the pursuer gets a free arial. Which will become 90% of the chase kills i think. Also if the pursuer does jump after him he gets crippled as well and you have 2 crippled asses chasing each other, net gain on gameplay mechanics is 0. Well only for poachers ofc, but i dont think you should punish people for getting in a chase.

Also im not in favor of a "max roof time" timer bc in a chase i always head for the roofs, and somtimes spend a lot of time there, creating distance or waiting for the pursuer to make a mistake and fall. Especially with multiple contracts on me, running around like an idiot in the streets in a predicatable path is an easy icognito kill for the 3rd guy, if hes good, just wait beside the other end of shutters.
Thats another gripe i have bout the gameplay mechanics but dont have any idea to fix that one , without breaking other mechanics, beside heading for the roofs. But imo its pretty minor, ican live with it, i cant with roof camping, breaks the spirit of the game.

After long thinking about gameplay implications ive settled on a "medium profile status" idea. So then you have low, medium and high profile. What medium profile does is that for your pursuers the lt / target icon pops up and for your target the red triangle icon pops up while you are on a roof, all the time. But it doesnt drain your targets "observe" meter. Like: "hey a guy walking on the roof, thats strange, prob maintance but i better keep an eye out"

For the rest normal mechanics, so if you run on a roof it puts you in high profile and does drain your targets "observe meter" (bc your making a loud and distinct noise when running across roof tiles, "yup hes definatly after me!")

So tell me what you think!
I think for the observant target its easier to avoid getting jumped on and for the observant pursuer its easier to track the target going across the roof from the ground and plot an intercept course. (Engage! Sorry, lol)

And for the roofer its really important to stay out of sight of the streets where the target is until the second before the aerial kill, justifying the points, which now are not justified. So a roofer still can prowl for a bit but its harder.

I feel, right now on the "ground game" this is already the case, ive triggered many chases purpousfully and stunned many targets (love disguise) bc a pursuer couldnt resist tapping that sprint button just for a second to close in a bit.

That or maybe just make aerial kills 250 points and be done with it :P
But im in avor of making it harder instead of reducing the points bc aerials are pretty awesome. And with point reduction maybe people wont head up on roofs at all anymore except when in chases, which would be a loss to the game imo.

I kinda suck in AC:B MP ill admit, always hanging in the middle of the list, maybe thats why im able to indentify cheap kills for way to many point rewards so well http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And since how the point system works, cheap kills really should reward low points.

uki2010
11-30-2010, 04:41 AM
Originally posted by DeafAtheist:
I think it's stupid that you can jump off the top of the high building in Venice and land on the ground with no consequences... if you can do that then what the heck are leaps of faith for?


In a chase, break vision on a roof and get instant hiding!
Especially when using those rope rappel thingys to get up the roof fast, then jump off the other end of the building in a haystack, got a away lots of times that way.
I think using LoF's as an exclusive way to get off a roof fast makes people camp LoF haystacks as interception points and get cheap icognito kills.

DeafAtheist
11-30-2010, 04:52 AM
Originally posted by uki2010:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DeafAtheist:
I think it's stupid that you can jump off the top of the high building in Venice and land on the ground with no consequences... if you can do that then what the heck are leaps of faith for?


In a chase, break vision on a roof and get instant hiding!
Especially when using those rope rappel thingys to get up the roof fast, then jump off the other end of the building in a haystack, got a away lots of times that way.
I think using LoF's as an exclusive way to get off a roof fast makes people camp LoF haystacks as interception points and get cheap icognito kills. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I realize that the LoFs have their uses as quick hiding spots, but I still think they should be the only safe way off a rooftop at least in the advanced modes. I don't expect a fall to result in a death but maybe a 2-3 second injury.

I don't think people would camp at LoF landing spots if that were the case simply because there's no guarantee your target will land in that one and you could be a sitting duck waiting for something that might not happen.

uki2010
11-30-2010, 05:07 AM
Originally posted by DeafAtheist:
I don't think people would camp at LoF landing spots if that were the case simply because there's no guarantee your target will land in that one and you could be a sitting duck waiting for something that might not happen.

Well if i would be tracking a roofguy from the ground i would go from haystack to haystack http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
And on the ground you can blend with look-a-likes.

I think its one of those game mechanics that you wont know how it works out till you tried it. But i guess the devs tried it in beta and rejected the idea on purpose. But no idea ofc.
Would be nice if some dev explained why fall damage isnt in. I can think of the reasons ive listed but its all theorycrafting.

But fall damage is a good idea for the advanced mode, if advanced strives for more realism then falling death / stun should be in it.

obliviondoll
11-30-2010, 06:51 AM
How's this for an idea...

You've already got the Aerial kill flag separate from a regular kill - why not give aerial kills a separate set of point modifiers for stealth - Aerial Incognito = 200, Aerial silent = 100, Aerial Discreet = ?? (thinking keep this one 50, but not sure)

Wouldn't severely devalue it, but maybe just enough to balance things.

Acrobatic + incognito would only be 400 points instead of 500. Sound fair?

fastfast
11-30-2010, 07:57 AM
arrrrggghhh. just had a wanted session and 5 out of the 8 players were roof runners, everytime i seen a contract on the roof i just knocked off a random person, i see no point in running after them as they always get away

obliviondoll
11-30-2010, 08:07 AM
Originally posted by fastfast1969:
arrrrggghhh. just had a wanted session and 5 out of the 8 players were roof runners, everytime i seen a contract on the roof i just knocked off a random person, i see no point in running after them as they always get away
Use gun, get better at running, play follow best for a 400 - 600 point kill on them.

Follow best = be where they're heading, instead of following. You follow best from in front.

If you have 2 - 3 stealth players in a game, the runners WILL be coming to ground level to catch you.

Especially if one of you is high level or takes an early lead. Which means you just have to watch for them to land nearby, and strike. Preferably before or during their kill, because you never know which direction they'll run after it.

If you watch the compass, it gives you a good indication of the pattern the target's making. If you place yourself in the right place on that path, you'll get the kill.

Breaking contract on them only gives them more chance to get kills, and more chance to get killstreaks, and more chance to get high scores for their kills. This means you're less likely to win.

luth411
11-30-2010, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by Rippah72:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mpagano411:



And yes...you do have to convince me as well as the developers and the community. Otherwise, you're just whining.

No mate, I don't have to convince you of anything... nor do I expect to. You are in for some disappointment if you think axiomatic reasoning will earn you kudos or be a determining factor in a gamer’s forum.

Your need for axiomatic reasoning, to theorize strategies are laughable kid, and best left in the classroom. It’s a gamers forum, in here the devs do not need to logically derived theorems to arrive at a decision...it’s usually down to a business decision, with the almighty dollar & the majority rule that wins.

Your lack of insight as to the functionality of gamers & online gaming is a shining example of why you kiddo are also joke.

Your classroom antics of model theories mean nothing compared to an angry mob of torch & pitchfork wielding gamers calling for change... in fact this is often how change occurs in online games resulting in nerfs, patches and updates… change occurs not because gamers have rationalized and theorized what is best, but because for most of us this is how we spend our R&R and enough people cite an issue and say hey this is crap & it needs to be fixed. And so it gets fixed. If a hundred gamers post just two words "fix it" for every one of your analytical responses your SOL.

Now with that being said, I am not against roofing and enjoy it on some maps more than others. What I am asking for is balance. My play style is adaptive, I roof, I stealth, I run when required. I have experienced the different aspects and have to say roofing is not balanced, but nor is it an automatic win by any means, a couple of points;

As a roofer or particularly a roof camper you don’t risk or deal with a hunter in a blend group coming at you. You don’t risk an escape through crowds that could harbor a potential hunter(s), you minimize the risk of a hunter scoring a hidden score against you, as there’s no crowds to support it on a roof. You have greater mobility on a roof to advance to your target or to retreat from your hunter.

The suggestion that you stick out like dogs balls perched on a roof is a two edged sword. It means you have a vantage point over your target and your hunter probably needs to join you as a ball sack up onto the roof in order to shank you, which also gives you further advantage over your hunter. As obvious as you are on a roof, so is your hunter. And if you are unable to see the hunter, when you hear whispers, it doesn’t matter which way you retreat on a roof as it does on the ground, just stay away from the roof edges.

As a roofer, your less likely to get an attack from above, your risk is lessened. And the speed that you can attack from above is greater than the speed you can attack from below.

The scoring that is available to you as a rooftop hunter compared to that which is against you as a rooftop hunted is out of whack. The reward outstrips the risk… it’s often why players are up there.

The speed and mobility you have to turn over a higher number of targets and escape hunters is imbalanced with the rewards available compared to other play styles. Its why roof campers exist and need balance… not removal.

Now mpag, feel free to dissect & scrutinize this post as I'm sure you will. Indulge your self in any attempt to rip this posts a new one, as your contribution to this topic, your posts & your views put towards the thread will likely ultimately serve to only highlight this as an issue for dev discussion - with the more attention you and others provide, the sooner this is likely to occur, for this I thank you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's no indulgence. I realize that the general community of an online game is of dull intellect and narrow perspective. It's a surprisingly accurate representation of the U.S.A. today. You're right, the ignorant masses will always make more noise. I get it, but that doesn't mean I won't adhere to the ideals that have always (and exclusively) propelled our species forward.

And in case you didn't realize, these forums are full of debates. Whether or not the majority of people engage in them properly isn't of concern to me.

There are rapists and murderers in the world...shall I get started in those departments as well? The fact remains: roof camping isn't an issue for many of us.

Mynimoe
11-30-2010, 12:14 PM
my opinion is simple and doesnt need an argument.

I think the scoring for people killing off of a roof is just fine the way it is. you dont need more points.

sandmanssorrow
11-30-2010, 12:45 PM
Roofing needs no fix, it's fine.
Campers are hard to kill in every game type, Gears, COD, RDR, Halo, etc etc, take your pick, a camper is always a pain in the butt. And therefore should be credited for creating an advantage for themselves, the sad truth is that in the REAL world camping works too, run around in plain sight in Afghanistn and you're going to get dropped. Complaining about the enemy hiding in the caves is an pointless waste of time, instead you have to figure out the counter method and changing the game is not it.
Patches and fixes will only result in more bugs and the sharp players will only figure out another way to camp. And let's be honest, playing stealthy and hiding is just s much a version of camping as hanging out on a roof, I spend a lot of time morphed and blended AND on rooftops, I don't see a difference in any of the strategies.
I DO feel however that complaints about a particular strategy and attempting to get the game changed because you can't figure out the way to win over a particular method is just a weak way of dealing with it. Man/Woman up.
Maybe I should complain about how unbalanced it is when hunters disguise themselves and poison me while I am high profile assassinating another target, it's too hard , it's unfair, change the game for me because this particular way people play makes it difficult for me to win....sound like a real wimp don't I?

kirondineer01
11-30-2010, 08:39 PM
I won't start out on a roof, but I will admit that once I have 3 contracts out on me I usually end up there if there isn't a duplicate in a group close by for me to hide with/near. It's a simple question of survival at that point (and you are usually in 1st, 2nd or 3rd when you have 3 hunters).

I probably won't get my kill with 3 people hunting me, but on a roof I can at least see my hunters coming and try to smoke/stun a few before I die. Or initiate a chase and get away from them (my personal favorite).