View Full Version : What if you had a clean sheet.......

12-05-2004, 09:45 AM
If you were thinking of a new flight sim, what noew features would it have (or old forgotten ones)? I'm assuming perfect FM and DM, maps and campaigns are all a given. And that the aircraft types you want are there.

What NEW things would you like to see in a flight sim?

I'll kick off with open AI programming, possibly with AI vs AI contests...

12-05-2004, 10:41 AM
I would like to see the world included. And a time generator, which would make the world grow from time frame to different time frame. For example, if the sim cover 1914 to 1991 air war, then, it would be nice to include progressively new buildings in some sort of city-generator.

I would like very detailed avionics and instruments for all of the planes, and have most of the planes included.

This is somewhat off topic, but at work I was thinking up a Cold War, what-if? sim.

The decade is the 1960s. Maybe we can start off in 1961. The conflict may happen ANYWHERE in the world- and it does. This is why most of the world needs to be modelled to some degree- even if it is MSFS-style.

Long distances will be flown.

I thought up 20 aircraft which could be modelled, and would be a very compromising selection. 2 or 3 submodels of each could be included, or subsituted with another plane, when possible.

Planes are divided up into the most prominent of the era.


Mirage III
Mystere IVA


A-7 (both Navy and AF)
B-26 Invader
B-57 (though this may count as a subversion of the Canberra)
F-4 -both Navy and AF versions (maybe B,C,D,E,and J)

J35 Draken

That's just over 20 planes.

With the speed, and the distance, it is no surpirse that the world must be modelled. Also, attention should be payed to low altitudes, just as they were in IL2.

Now for AI controlled planes,,,,,


Mirage V

Tu 95


and that's all for now.

Thanks for reading.

12-05-2004, 11:13 AM
My list would, of course, start with uncompromising accuracy and realism in flight modeling. Any sim should HAVE to have that.

I'd improve on the IL-2 scenario design module to give authors full control not only of the aircraft and ground units, but also of the POINT SCHEDULES. I'd add in some automatic event and consequence code, so that you could start with a situation, and have the next one(s) result from how each side does, and also factor in random events or history to use as a guide to produce the next result.

The sim would have built in capability to export data to hosts; damage, gunnery, who-killed-who, individualized scoring, who-fulfilled-triggering-event.

The maps wouldn't be "snippets", but would be able to simply draw from real topo data.

Finally, I'd design the sim in such a way that it GUIDED the participants to explore the history, but still left the door open for some intelligent what-ifs. That way, the action might be something like 80% historic exploration, 20% what-if. I'd also try to design it so online play would gravitate more around co-op, than dogfighting.

To the pilot above who talked about the '60s, try Strike Fighters/Wings Over Vietnam. It's a medium core sim, but they have a really wide selection of 60s and 70s planes (and increasingly some WWII planes added in)

12-05-2004, 11:23 AM
A pilot relief tube.

12-05-2004, 11:26 AM
P-51 vs. Modern Jet fighters.

It would be a hard fight, but in the Mustang, I could take 'em.

12-05-2004, 11:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SkyChimp:
A pilot relief tube. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wouldn't that be more of a hardware addon from Thrustmaster or Saitek rather than a software issue?

12-05-2004, 12:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hrdina:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SkyChimp:
A pilot relief tube. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wouldn't that be more of a hardware addon from Thrustmaster or Saitek rather than a software issue? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Its a BNZ weapon. You're flying along at 25,000 feet and your German targets are flying below and behind at 20,000 feet. You want to mess em up a bit? Open the relief tube http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Oh man...thats odd http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

12-05-2004, 01:40 PM
I'd add a revamped version of CFS3's campaign interface. Maybe without being able to call invasions or whatnot, but depending on how well you do in a particular sector, you get to see just how exactly you influenced the front line. Once you get high in rank, maybe you should be able to plan out sorties and request other (AI) squadrons to assist or whatever. I know IL2 right now has a dynamic frontline, but you just don't seem to realize it as much...

12-05-2004, 02:03 PM
I would like air frame stress included in the game. As it is now, the IL2 series favourize the agile but fragile airplanes. You can pull a hard manourver and they might stall, but not rip the wings off, as their real counterpart would. I played Janes Attack Squadron a little bit before the original IL2. I was used to be nimble on the joystick on high velocities on that game. In Il2, all I would risk was bleeding energi or get into a stall. In Il2 you can dive without fear of ripping of peaces of your aircraft. As long as the prop pitch is OK, even a wooden "paper" aircraft can take huge stress.

12-05-2004, 02:38 PM
I would want it to be like Janes, ion terms of

chat interface...FB one cant even hold the backspace button...and the pretyped message thing is useless, it make screws u up to type numbers first when in a hurry...plus sometimes when i hit the "I" key while in chat, my engine turns off

kill/loss team/individual counter instead of do-nothing point-***** encouraging scoring of FB

with no cockpit view, the instrument pop up Janes had

as in Janes, the option to have a PIP tgt window, and tracking arrow for only ONE enemy at a time, again like Janes

sounds like Janes or even better

a mission builder like Janes...all interfaces on Janes were MUCH more user-friendly towards computer no nothings

change that client side/user side thing that results in spawn lag

Janes ability to toggle gun sets in the 190

Janes ability to "train" weapon drops like bombs (if this is historically accurate...could, say, a Jug driver drop his bombs one at a time, or in any order he chose? anyone know?)

change FB's mini bar of alt hdg and spd to include optional ammo counter, as in Janes

Janes gun jamming, when fired at high G

Janes kill marking that add on to your ship skin as you get kills, and subtracting them as you get killed

the swingin tunes featured in Janes museum, WAY better than the dirge FB has

basically, I want Janes WWII fighters, but with FB planes, FM/DM etc lol

12-05-2004, 02:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tjaika1910:
I would like air frame stress included in the game. As it is now, the IL2 series favourize the agile but fragile airplanes. You can pull a hard manourver and they might stall, but not rip the wings off, as their real counterpart would. I played Janes Attack Squadron a little bit before the original IL2. I was used to be nimble on the joystick on high velocities on that game. In Il2, all I would risk was bleeding energi or get into a stall. In Il2 you can dive without fear of ripping of peaces of your aircraft. As long as the prop pitch is OK, even a wooden "paper" aircraft can take huge stress. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Obviously you don't fly Mustangs much. They are notorious for losing wings with any significant change in velocity at high speeds. As of late, even P47's recieve structural damage in dives over 800kmh IAS. Furthermore, I totally lost a wing in a P47 while pulling a hard split ess. Yaks lose their control surfaces if you push them too hard...

And Dai, yes, I remember ordnance selection switches in a P47D cockpit.

12-05-2004, 04:58 PM
A single plane.

Take 1 plane, something cool, from the WWII era, and basically go "Falcon 4.0" on it. Something like the F7F, or F8F, or Ho/Go-229, or Do-335, or what not. Something unusual, high performing, cool looking, not very well known, and rarely simulated.

Model it's FM and DM to unprecidented levels (again, short cutting on AI to enhance the player's model's fidelity), and make all switches, levers, knobs, and buttons functional. Have the players run through checklists and have total control over everything in the plane. (allowing it to be switchable in difficulty settings, and also having some gameplay features such as short to non-existant warm up times, and accelerated time)

Then put it into a living world with a deep and user extensible campaign. Again, akin to Falcon's.

Have COOP capabilities (DFs aren't much use with only 1 flyable plane), and online campaigns.

Have the maps be user createable.

Have manufacturing problems and wear and tear over the campaign be user selectable features.

Incorporate some things missing from PF, such as carb and prop icing, pilot G tolerance and fatigue (in PF, you can ride grey out for hours and not have it make a difference. IRL, pulling Gs is exhausting. The more you do and the longer you do it for on a single hop, the lower your tolerance becomes. But, over time, your initial tolerance will improve), even find some way of modeling weaknesses such as pit heaters (didn't one of the P-38s have a heater problem? Not really into that plane, just seem to remember something about it for some reason). Oh, and a big one - hijack all sound playback. Incorporate quality v-comms (partner with Ventrilo or TS or whatnoe), and add FX to emulate radio quality and damage. No planes without radios being flown by pilots perferctly sync'd by external comms.

And, if possible, add weather. ("If possible" because most resources on a modern PC would be almost entirely used up at this point)

Once it gets through testing and goes gold, begin working on expansion packs and improvements Oleg style.

As other planes get done to the same level of fidelity, add them. It would be slow, and the plane set would be tiny compared to most anything else out there, but I think the quality and depth would be worth it.

12-05-2004, 05:35 PM
Thats the way it should be, after all, do one plane at a time, and make them RIGHT, so yo ucan forget it and move on to the next one, and get that one right, and so on, and so on

it would be slow, but not too bad, with a whole team working on one type at a time...and the end result would be well worth waiting for AFAIC...plus no more agry-bargys about this or that....

oh, and take surveys of registered product owners to determine the next type to be made....THATs where the fireworkls will be! lol

12-05-2004, 06:39 PM
IMO any new sim would have to start out as a base with what we have here in terms of graphics, DMs,FMs, etc.... having at the very least everything that is in this sim.....

Then Id like even more accuracy in the models than is here.... (I like these models but Oleg himself said that there are limitations to the engine...) I would like to see multiple triggers in the mission builder- If X happens then Y happens.. if X does not happen then Z happens....on multiple stages. I would like to see a QMB that is more like the UQMG with a FMB that is at least as detailed as the one we have here with the addition of features like being able to clone sets of objects and link objects and object sets to waypoints,places etc with a few clicks of a mouse. Id like to see changeable weather on a time scale... like say... after 5 minutes into the mission it starts to rain or whatever.... Id like the weather to be tied to a temp setting so that say below 32 degrees if you seect rain you will get snow.... Id like to see some of the features from DF servers on Coop type servers and vice versa... respawn in coops.... granted you would have to respawn at your base... I would like to see rearming and refueling.. not in real time of course.. but I would like to see the option to land rearm, repair,refuel and go back up.. or pick another plane once you are down.. without leaving the server in a coop. I would like to see team DF servers that would track poits on a team basis. Id like to see servers that were more land sea and air oriented.. sort of like some of the massively multiplayer stuff out now. Id like to see the next gen flight sim be actually a FPS and a flight sim.. so that say you bail out.. if you wanted to you could actually try to make it back to friendly territory-fighting your way back-stealing food and weps etc.. hooking up with the underground. Id like to see more realistic looking flames and bigger maps with better detail than what we have here. I realize that this (FB3.0) is the pinnacle as far as I am concerned for flight sims at the moment.. especially WW2 sims.... I also suspect that, considering what 1C came up with in IL2 at the time, that 1C with BoB may wind up implementing many of the things we are fantasizing about. I know as computing power increases flight sims, providing things like piracy and being a niche market (which would actually be solved with a combined FPS/Sim...imagine if FB were combined with that 1C FPS to make one product....or if BF 1942 had CoD/FB3.0 quality) dont kill them... which I doubt they will.... sims will get better and better. My main hope is that whatever happens in the future that Oleg and 1C are at the forefront and that they arent turned into just another game developement company by the market and the consumers, but still cranking out quality product and interfacing with the consumers of their products because ultimately WE are the ones who will drive it all by whether or not we buy the sims that are produced or steal them. Whatever comes down the pike.. like I said it has to be at least this good....and if it isnt from 1C I will wait a bit to hear reviews from SIMMERS, not game reviewers before I even consider it.

12-05-2004, 06:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sir.Robin-1337:
P-51 vs. Modern Jet fighters.

It would be a hard fight, but in the Mustang, I could take 'em. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where did we get this guy ????

12-05-2004, 06:56 PM

The highest level of accuracy with the absolute minimum amount of marketing input.

Just aviation experts, with no biases, sitting down with like minded software engineers and coming up with the goods. A bit like what we have now..without some of the 'pandering'

I'd really like to see pilot fatigue implemented, too. From Spit pilot accounts of dogfights, they were very tired within minutes of a ding ****. This would translate well to the sim as it would force tnb people to 'conserve their energy' during an engagement rather than just maintaining high G turns. Same for BnZ'ers...when they pull out of a dive, it takes energy and they get tired from that; it would make people more aware that they need to employ tactics and to think ahead.


12-05-2004, 07:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wseivelod <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> yes that would be cool the Cold War aint portrayed in many flight sims, and it would be realy nice to shoot down russians in one of this babes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif


12-05-2004, 07:42 PM
i would have a "WHAT IF" game

to be simply put it most basic of terms.. imagine a game/sim based on some of yalls photoshoped IL-2 aircraft contraptions..

you design the package, release it to test pilots for your country, if feedback is good from the test pilots, changing things here or there, adding armour, or guns, or whatever, re-release it, once test pilot approval is good it gets put out into the fieled for combat duty.

your competing aircraft corp, works for the opposing countries.. so quite literally your designs have to be the better, to win the war...

fine tune... what the aircraft is made out of, powerplant, addition horsepower makers, crew of how many, what its purpose is for, is it a pusher, or puller, mono, bi, tri-wing, fuel stowage, ordinance, and the release of "higher technology" products/ mfg, you have to purchase to make such aifrcraft with the lateset materials.

12-05-2004, 10:28 PM
That would be cool. Incorporate something along the lines of X-Planes plane creater/adder. But have all the formulae and calculations work strictly from CFD, plane shape, and weights ( everything else, drag, C.o.Lift, CoG, range, toughness, etc, will fall in line), and have that all be internal to the code, that way it doesn't devolve into CFS2.

Short of going that far though, I'd be happy with the Luft'46 and contemporaries (in terms of chronology, not tech). Many of those designs would be bad a$$ (at least in terms of "coolness" if nothing else. lol). And I think a lot of people 'round these parts would be surprised at just how good they were/would have been. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (though they would fight against it with all their might, as we have seen even with the stuff that was used)

The planned changes to the He-162 and Go-229 would be truly awesome to have in a sim. Just for 2 examples.

12-06-2004, 01:28 AM
Skychimp,a pilot relief tube would have to be
adjustable,some of us may need it shorter and wider.
How about a what if,WW11 continued differently and assume that Germany had been succesful in it's invasion of Russia and with it's new found oil and manpower reserves again launched an all out attack on England.Meantime the US has its' hand full in the Pacific with Japan having invaded Australia and New Guinea and pushing toward South America.
I know it's far fetched but think of the planes
that could be used.Of course the "A"bomb was a
fizzer. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

12-06-2004, 08:40 AM
um, wow, where to start? - lol

-Accurate CEM (including axis for all things that need them)

-The ability to run settings up AND down if you don't have the rotarty axis available to assign (like the cowl flaps and mixture - mixture now can only be increased in quatum units)


-Decent Weather

-Good Sound fx

Those are things I would start with