PDA

View Full Version : Flipping channels on the boob tube yesterday...



knightflyte
08-01-2005, 09:52 AM
...and I came across a PBS documentary on the Battle of Britain.

It was a cross of reenacted interviews and cgi animation. It also had a pilot/ student trainer where the student was taken up by tge experienced pilot to do a few COMMON aerobatic manuevers we take for granted.

With the exception of the movie Birdie with David Carrodine who played a stunt pilot, I've never seen such a visually descriptive scene of the affect on the pilot as they perform evasive manuevers.

The pilot warned the 'student' that he was going to do a basic evasive maneuver.
'Messer****ts spotted. BREAK LEFT! BREAK LEFT! BREAK LEFT!

The noises that student made sounded like a startled pig. And that was a GENTLE move.

He did it again calling out the Mesershmitt, but this time the manuever was as it would be done in combat. A very quick break with the evasive spiral, then gain spped and 'escape'....hopefully.

The student really got a first hand experience at how hard these planes were to fly because of how taxing it was to on the body to maneuver effectively.

Even the pilot was wincing and screaming in pain.

"How do you not black out?"
"Clench the lower part of your body"

Same thing at 7 g's this time. You hear the student yelling "CLENCHING!".... I'm Clenching"

Each time he said it you could tell it was VERY laboured.

Heck! With seven G's I think my heart would pop!

I look at the evasive maneuvers by the AI in IL2 and after seeing that BOB on PBS it really gives a greater respect for the pilots of that era.

I used to hate the black out option, but after seeing this show I have a greater understanding of black outs. I always thought they happened to quick in IL2. Not too sure now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

One other story in the documentary was the retelling of a 'newb' pilot's first day.
He arrived at 1:30 with his golf clubs. At 2:00 he was in the air doing reconnaisance, and at 2:15 he was dead.

Sobering.

knightflyte
08-01-2005, 09:52 AM
...and I came across a PBS documentary on the Battle of Britain.

It was a cross of reenacted interviews and cgi animation. It also had a pilot/ student trainer where the student was taken up by tge experienced pilot to do a few COMMON aerobatic manuevers we take for granted.

With the exception of the movie Birdie with David Carrodine who played a stunt pilot, I've never seen such a visually descriptive scene of the affect on the pilot as they perform evasive manuevers.

The pilot warned the 'student' that he was going to do a basic evasive maneuver.
'Messer****ts spotted. BREAK LEFT! BREAK LEFT! BREAK LEFT!

The noises that student made sounded like a startled pig. And that was a GENTLE move.

He did it again calling out the Mesershmitt, but this time the manuever was as it would be done in combat. A very quick break with the evasive spiral, then gain spped and 'escape'....hopefully.

The student really got a first hand experience at how hard these planes were to fly because of how taxing it was to on the body to maneuver effectively.

Even the pilot was wincing and screaming in pain.

"How do you not black out?"
"Clench the lower part of your body"

Same thing at 7 g's this time. You hear the student yelling "CLENCHING!".... I'm Clenching"

Each time he said it you could tell it was VERY laboured.

Heck! With seven G's I think my heart would pop!

I look at the evasive maneuvers by the AI in IL2 and after seeing that BOB on PBS it really gives a greater respect for the pilots of that era.

I used to hate the black out option, but after seeing this show I have a greater understanding of black outs. I always thought they happened to quick in IL2. Not too sure now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

One other story in the documentary was the retelling of a 'newb' pilot's first day.
He arrived at 1:30 with his golf clubs. At 2:00 he was in the air doing reconnaisance, and at 2:15 he was dead.

Sobering.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
08-01-2005, 10:10 AM
You could do no worse than grab hold of a copy of Voices in the Air 1939 - 1945 (edited by laddie lucas)

many others but that is the one I am flicking through at the moment with some good reads about the north african campaign and also the med

danjama
08-01-2005, 10:30 AM
That is a good read, i read it some time ago, and some ofthe accounts are pretty good. That show sounds good too mate, but not sure what PBS is? maybe an american thing lol I always think my pilot blacks out like a girl but i think it without actually thinking about it, i guess these planes really pushed pilots to their limits. S~

SeaFireLIV
08-01-2005, 10:57 AM
Yes, these planes did (and still do today) push pilots to their limits. That`s why you never see crazy spinning manouevers in guncam shots, the most you`d see is maybe one roll and a half, a dive and then the pilot has to cancel out, any more he`d lose his orientation and hit the ground or go into a stall, or blackout completely.

Nice thing about 4.01 is such mad manouevers are much more difficult to pull off continously and remain alive. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
08-01-2005, 11:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:

I always think my pilot blacks out like a girl but i think it without actually thinking about it, i guess these planes really pushed pilots to their limits. S~ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually I saw a test done on the BBC between female and male jet pilots and women were found to be more resiliant to the affects of g-force than men due to smaller more compact body mass

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

danjama
08-01-2005, 11:43 AM
I know i watched a programme on F18 pilots or something, and the woman pilot going into Top Gun training passed the G tests but the male didnt!

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
08-01-2005, 11:52 AM
Yup thats the show I laughed my azz off when I saw the blokes face when he got the result http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

knightflyte
08-01-2005, 03:22 PM
PBS is a television network across the US. It shows educational, news, nature shows, the occasional history program usually dealing with WWII, and the ever so popular PBS auction.

It is funded by donations and corporate sponsers for certain shows. It also has government funding, but I'm not sure how much. Each year they televize an auction from 'gifts' that are donated to be sold on the televized auction to raise funds.

VW-IceFire
08-01-2005, 04:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:

I always think my pilot blacks out like a girl but i think it without actually thinking about it, i guess these planes really pushed pilots to their limits. S~ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually I saw a test done on the BBC between female and male jet pilots and women were found to be more resiliant to the affects of g-force than men due to smaller more compact body mass

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Shorter and smaller pilots are generally better suited to air combat than bigger taller ones. Man or woman...the difference is of course that men tend to be taller.

SeaFireLIV
08-01-2005, 05:24 PM
Good points, Icefire.

horseback
08-01-2005, 09:03 PM
re the 'women handle high Gs better than men' thing...I was just out of the Navy & had been contacted by a member of the Top Gun team at Miramar Naval Air Station and asked to build a model for him. I was dating a very smart and attractive young woman with strong opinions and an unfortunately cursory education in some areas at that time, and when the two of them got together, something similar to the following exchange took place:

She: There should be more women than men flying fighters because they found out that women can handle more G forces.

He: Well, possibly, but there's a lot more to it than just that.

She: Like what? The Old Boys' Club? Playing golf and smoking cigars?

He: Nooo, you still have to be able to move precisely under all those Gs to maintain control of your aircraft. You have to be able to turn your head and watch that enemy fighter while you're both making a hard turn or climb...you're obviously pretty fit (-she preens-), but by male standards, you have an awfully thin neck...you wear a what? -size 7 hat? (she nods-she wears a bigger size hat than me-and we both had long hair) Do you know your collar size-how big around your neck is?

-she didn't, so we got out a measuring tape and determined that her neck was around 13" in circumference, or about 5" smaller than my neck, and 7" smaller than our friend the Real Fighter Pilot-

He: Your head isn't much smaller than the average male's, is it? That means it weighs on the order of 8-10 pounds. In a 6-G turn, that's about 50 pounds that you have to hold up and look around with on a neck less than 60% as thick as mine...you might be able to take more Gs than me, but you couldn't do it and fly a high performance fighter as well as me. You'll need to pack about another thirty pounds of muscle on and add at least 4 inches to that neck first, and then we can talk about vision, eye-hand coordination, drive, determination, and education-and then maybe I'll invite you to play golf and smoke some cigars with me and my peers...

She:&lt;sullen silence, and a balefule glare in my direction&gt;

When he left with his model, she started a big fight with me for not "supporting" her and left in a huff when I had the immense nerve to point out that he was right, in my opinion.

I never saw her again, Thank God.

cheers

horseback

wayno7777
08-01-2005, 09:23 PM
Good one and Sir Douglass Bader said he could hold up under G-loads better because the blood wouldn't have to make the legs trip...

Lucius_Esox
08-02-2005, 03:37 AM
Horseback said

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">re the 'women handle high Gs better than men' thing...I was just out of the Navy & had been contacted by a member of the Top Gun team at Miramar Naval Air Station and asked to build a model for him. I was dating a very smart and attractive young woman with strong opinions and an unfortunately cursory education in some areas at that time, and when the two of them got together, something similar to the following exchange took place:

She: There should be more women than men flying fighters because they found out that women can handle more G forces.

He: Well, possibly, but there's a lot more to it than just that.

She: Like what? The Old Boys' Club? Playing golf and smoking cigars?

He: Nooo, you still have to be able to move precisely under all those Gs to maintain control of your aircraft. You have to be able to turn your head and watch that enemy fighter while you're both making a hard turn or climb...you're obviously pretty fit (-she preens-), but by male standards, you have an awfully thin neck...you wear a what? -size 7 hat? (she nods-she wears a bigger size hat than me-and we both had long hair) Do you know your collar size-how big around your neck is?

-she didn't, so we got out a measuring tape and determined that her neck was around 13" in circumference, or about 5" smaller than my neck, and 7" smaller than our friend the Real Fighter Pilot-

He: Your head isn't much smaller than the average male's, is it? That means it weighs on the order of 8-10 pounds. In a 6-G turn, that's about 50 pounds that you have to hold up and look around with on a neck less than 60% as thick as mine...you might be able to take more Gs than me, but you couldn't do it and fly a high performance fighter as well as me. You'll need to pack about another thirty pounds of muscle on and add at least 4 inches to that neck first, and then we can talk about vision, eye-hand coordination, drive, determination, and education-and then maybe I'll invite you to play golf and smoke some cigars with me and my peers...

She:&lt;sullen silence, and a balefule glare in my direction&gt;

When he left with his model, she started a big fight with me for not "supporting" her and left in a huff when I had the immense nerve to point out that he was right, in my opinion.

I never saw her again, Thank God.

cheers
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was a funny story and rung a bell with me! I think I must have gone out with her sister once,,,,, she was a pain in the b*t in just the same way.

She had read somewhere that women are better at mental multi tasking than men and that because of this they would make better fighter pilots..

It was a case of anything you can do I can do better... all the time, what a pain in the b*t lol.

It's a shame I wasn't still with her now so I could show her this thread, I reckon it would have had the same result as you though, great ending ... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Not anti women here btw, just anti ballbreakers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

HotelBushranger
08-02-2005, 03:50 AM
Well, if women are better fighter pilots than men, how come the RAAF hasn't had one, ever? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

WTE_Ibis
08-02-2005, 03:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Voices in the Air </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Plus she would need a navigator. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif
.

WTE_Ibis
08-02-2005, 03:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
Well, if women are better fighter pilots than men, how come the RAAF hasn't had one, ever? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just biased I guess.

Or maybe they're having trouble with the new bullet proof vest design

Lucius_Esox
08-02-2005, 04:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Plus she would need a navigator </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now now http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif