View Full Version : Conrad vs William Montferrat (Spoiler?)

03-20-2007, 05:00 AM
I was reading the Kingdom of Heaven topic earlier which I found very interesting since I had recently done some independant study on that time period. I was going to post this in that thread, but I felt it deserved its own topic. (If its already been discussed in another thread I apologize, the search feature is down at the moment)


In the Assassins Creed demo they show Altair going after his target William De Montferrat. However the real William De Montferrat was a monk and was not assassinated.

However, Conrad Montferrat, who was an ally of Baillan of Ibelen, Orlando Blooms character in Kingdom of Hevean, was assassinated in 1192 during the time frame of this game. William Montferrat lived well into the 1200's, past this games time period.

I think the game developers at Ubi Soft mixed up their names. Although it was interesting that they used the monks as camouflage in order to assassinate WIlliam in the game. Perhaps this was an allusion to the real William who was a monk? Maybe they switched the two people for a specific reason?

You all seem to have a number of in depth theories on the story and Altairs background. Perhaps you could come up with some reasons for purposely switching Conrad and William in the game.

03-20-2007, 05:23 AM
The game is verry historicaly inaccurate.

Hell all the fults is a thred in its own.

But I have two reasons why the names might have been switched.

1) The game has been well lets just say "modified" for the excitement of the players.

2) Most of the information they are using for the game came from Wiki and im shure noobfun will have a comment to put in this thred.
(lol its like the calm before the storm)
But the he is right the information that Wiki uses is verry inaccurate.

But we cant really complain about this.

Because it must be hard for Ubi to find all these facts and be shure that there true. There is bound to be many mistakes but you have to remember that its the first game that has claimed to be completly historicaly accurate. Also our pointing out every falt in the game cant be helping.

Also im not critisising you wirelessfetus (Nice name BTW ) Ubi just needs a breake http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

03-20-2007, 05:35 AM
You know its funny you mention Wiki's innaccuracies. Im very torn on Wikipedia. When I found out they didn't verify sources I was very shocked and dissapointed.

However on the other hand upon lookin at their system more carefully, in a way its hard for it to be innacurate since so many people contribute and edit. And if something is unchecked or disputed its usually pointed out. So Im torn on how I feel about Wiki.

But yea I wasn't trying to criticize Ubi. I was more or less interested in starting a topic on possibilities as to why they might have switched the two figures on purpose. Maybe someone is more up on the history then I am and might have some theories as to why William would work better as a charcter to assassinate versus Conrad.

I dont know really. Its probably just a "typo" in the game. But I couldn't help noticing the monk coincidence and wondering if maybe it was intentional

and thanks, my sn usually gets a laugh or two =]

03-20-2007, 05:52 AM
So many people do contribute and edit wiki, but that agglomeration of people in no way assures accuracy or even a reasonable approximation of it. But since this is a game, the historical accuracy is not so key and is even likely to be a plot point - getting a "real" version of history rather than the recorded one.

03-20-2007, 08:42 AM
Their eldest son Count Oddone I (Otto) died about 991; his wife's name was Marie but her background is unknown. Their son was known as William III of Montferrat, though it is unclear who "William I" was. He died about 1031, and his wife's name is unknown. He was the father of two sons: Enrico I, who died childless, and Oddone II, marquis of Montferrat (1044-1084) who married Constanza of Savoy, daughter of Count Amadeo II (see Savoy). Their son William IV (died 1100) married Aude, daughter of Tibaldo d'Aglie (about whom nothing else is known). They were the parents of Rainier II (c1075-1135), who married Gisela of Burgundy (daughter of Guillaume I 'the Great' and Stephanie de Longwy). They had six children: William V 'the Old' (c1110-1191, see below); Adelicia, married William Clito, a grandson of William the Conqueror); Giovanna, married Alexius Comnenus; Matilde, married Alberto di Massa, Marchese di Gavi e Parodi; Beatrice, married Guy V, dauphin of Viennois; and Isabelle, married Guido di Biandrate.

William V 'the Old' married Judith von Babenberg, daughter of Leopold III, Margrave of Austria and his wife Agnes, daughter of the emperor Henry IV (see Hohenstaufen). They had ten children, at least two of whom we are descended from: (1) the second son, Conrad of Montferrat (died 1192), Prince of Tyre, who married as his second wife Isabelle of Anjou, Queen of Jerusalem; they were the parents of Maria, Queen of Jerusalem 1206-1212, who married Jean de Brienne); and (2) Alasia, c1160-1202, who married Manfredo II of Saluzzo. The Montferrat line continued with their brother Bonifacio I, whose titles eventually descended to Empress Irene of Constantinople.
. here (http://martinrealm.org/genealogy/montferrat.htm)

William V de Montferrat, Margrave of Montferrat, b abt 1110, Italy, d 1191. He md Judith of Babenberg bef 28 Mar 1133, daughter of St. Leopold III, Margrave of Austria, and Agnes of Germany. She was b 1115, Austria, d aft 18 Oct 1168.
Child of William V de Montferrat and Judith of Babenberg was: here (http://www.geneajourney.com/montferrat.html)

William III, Marquis de Montferrat [Parents] died in 1191.

He had the following children:

F i Alice de Montferrat was born about 1105
here (http://members.cox.net/garyrea/pafg188.htm)

there a quite a few willaim de montferrat around at this time

hell even baldwin V king of jerusalems dad had the same name

willaim V de montferrat and his blood line wernt even monferrats if this source is to believed
The family name was actually Aleramo, but they are always known by the name of the region in Piedmont where they were marquises from the tenth century until 1310 the first link i gave

people often referred to them selves using the area they came from as a surname, in the same way in england there was a tradition of job title for surname such as baker, cook, miller, etc

conrads farther is the one killed in the demo, he died late summer of illness in 1191

03-20-2007, 09:41 AM
2) Most of the information they are using for the game came from Wiki and im shure noobfun will have a comment to put in this thred.
(lol its like the calm before the storm)
But the he is right the information that Wiki uses is verry inaccurate.

I think they did a little more research on the subject than just look on wikipedia. I don't think all they did was read some half-drunk pubescent boy's perception of the history of the third crusade. Proof of this for instance is that book they talked about. I think they got the idea from the book (thought I read that somewhere).
I don't think they'll take this subject so lightly. They're really serious about this game. They probably put a lot of effort into it. It is however very clear that they have taken some liberties in shaping the story of this game. That's undeniable, but I can say with reasonable doubt that they've done more than look it up on wikipedia.

03-20-2007, 10:26 AM
lol yeah they did more research (i hope)

they chose to use many of the myths and legends becuase it better for the game like the whole hashassin uper secret assassins and hassan the old man of the mountian, the first to use political murder for thier own ends etc etc

if you want a glimpse of wiki's accuracy just read the comments section

theres a nizari muslim claiming its all lies none of it ever happened its just people trying to make muslims look bad

they obviously dont know about the nizari claiming the reserection had happened which freed them from religeous law, allowed the to drink wine, they prayed facing away from mecca and saw all christiansand none nizari muslims as bieng against the word of god

id love to see the comments if that info was in there

the books called 'alamut' or 'the alamut' but i dont remember the authors name

03-20-2007, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by noobfun:
the books called 'alamut' or 'the alamut' but i dont remember the authors name Do you mean the novel Alamut from Vladimir Bartol?

03-20-2007, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by andy276:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by noobfun:
the books called 'alamut' or 'the alamut' but i dont remember the authors name Do you mean the novel Alamut from Vladimir Bartol? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

if its pre 1950 then thast the one danke

03-20-2007, 11:19 AM
it's from 1938
Alamut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alamut_%281938_novel%29)

03-20-2007, 11:38 AM
Names are nothing but a string in games, they can be changed in seconds...

03-20-2007, 01:36 PM
thanks for the posts guys, especially noobfan. Its all very interesting. I hadnt gone that far in the research but now Im kicking myself. Obviously there could be many Willian de Montferrats.