View Full Version : WAAaaaay OT: But one For one to ponder on...

03-08-2006, 04:38 PM
Hi All;

Though I imagine this will get some goofy replies (as it should), I imagine one here is going to pounce all over this.

Normally what's cooked up here even for lunches tends to run on the exotic side to definitely passing a meal to fine cuisine.....Yet today I found a rare treat in the meat walk in and as I yapped with those in the kitchen, watched them boiling away in a pan of water.....

A simple half a sealed pack of Eckrich Hot dogs, once boiling perhaps in the water 4-5 minutes.

Now the pan just barely held all 5 on one level, the water above them before boiling roughly 1/2". We don't live at some exotic altitude and as they boiled I looked in on them nothing extraordinary happening...........Now here's the odd part and no one was not shaped like Elvis...........Looking into the pan I noticed the ones I saw had begun to split open and curl up....So off I walk to get some mustard as they were laid out on a plate for me to eat (was just going to stick and dip ;p)...

Anywho, all 5 were hot and steamy, 4 had curled up and split open, 1 was straight as out of the pack......So I eat the first one (nummy I never get hot dogs anymore)....and try to stick the fork in the straight one next and it wont go in...So I tried a couple more times and finally forced it through.....Okay, something's wrong here....Time to autopsy.....Out with the knife, "saw" it open.....and low and behold except for the outer 1/16" or so it's frozen solid.......It was cooked like the others, same pan, even heat and remained on the same level....

I have no answer for it, yet I know some of you will love to wrestle with this one....True story roughly an hour ago occurring.

03-08-2006, 04:50 PM
Yep its proven, god hates hotdogs!

03-08-2006, 04:54 PM
The physical world we live in never ceases to amaze me. When will the mysteries end. Weird with a capitol W.


03-08-2006, 04:59 PM
sounds like a job for Raaid!

03-08-2006, 05:28 PM
I'd rather LeBill do this one.

03-08-2006, 05:36 PM
I've had that happen before. Nothing to be concerned about, what happened is that a plain dog got mixed in with some of the hot ones http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

03-08-2006, 05:36 PM
Answer: Put the frozen one to one side and eat the others. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

03-08-2006, 07:08 PM
Dogs were made for the grill.

03-08-2006, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by boxduty:
sounds like a job for Raaid!

Exactly who this was posted for....and no this is not a joke, or tall tale, nor can I explain it as I watched all 5 cook.

03-08-2006, 07:35 PM

03-08-2006, 07:38 PM
Billfish, I've got to admit, I was bracing myself all the way to the end. Especially with some of the colorful descriptive terms. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Yeah, looks like a job for Raaid alright!

03-09-2006, 03:37 AM
Could it be that the split is the key? the split ones thawing and cooking quicker than the unsplit one? The question then is why did one of them not split.

03-09-2006, 04:43 AM
As I sat here and read your post, LEBillfish, I was in awe of ramifications of your experiment (poorly disguised as a munchie-attack...).

You have singlehandedly trumped Raaaid in proving wrong the laws of thermodynamics, and establishing "reactionless cooking"...a form of anti-free-energy. Not only that, but by retaining the mass/density relationship of the frozen weiner you should be able to disprove Bernouli by shoving that undercooked sausage through a 10000 mile long infinately tapering tube and then watching it suck up all the remaining hotdogs one by one.

You could also create an anti-gravity device with such technology (great for getting that ketchup out of the bottle), by simply tying two 1000lb frozen franks to your arms and attaching supersonic subnuclear rockets to the franks. By launching both rockets simultaneously in different directions you might achieve a momentary transition to weightlessness as those frozen projectiles pulled your body in two different planes of the gravitational continuim...(or something like that)

I am in awe...

I know you don't beleive that it could possibly be true, but you may also have come across a rare phenomina which binds the energy output of cold fusion to the atoms of the aforementioned pork torpedo to make a completely frictionless munchie. No wonder your fork wouldn't penetrate...the wiener probably had a super-slick energy shell that would have repelled any attempt at penetration with a simple fork.

I can only hope at least one of our members is already fast at work to develop a ultra-gravity perpetual eating utensil to overcome this issue...




03-09-2006, 05:17 AM

Boiling water isn't all boiling. Just the part where the water is in direct contact with the bottom of the pan. That's why boiling water bubbles: the bubbles are steam (water converted to gas by heat) and the steam bubbles rise through the slightly cooler water above.

If the water were all the same temperature, boiling water would not bubble: it would be stable, and look pretty much like a pot of cold water.

Now we introduce the variables: No pan has the exact same thickness of metal on the bottom, and these surface variations have an effect on the temperature, so what you get is an uneven heat. This creates convection currents in the water, which lead to even greater variations in the temperature.

I suspect that what happened is that by some fluke, the semi-cooked dog got trapped in a cooler pocket of water.

Now I'm hungry.

03-09-2006, 05:23 AM
Oh, and two more things:

1. Stir occasionally. Now you know why.

2. That's Lo and behold (http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/lo+and+behold). Biblical, I believe. Nothing to do with altitude.

03-09-2006, 06:27 AM
Glitch in the matrix, happens to me once in a while too. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

03-09-2006, 06:49 AM
now you may know how i feel trying to explain what just shouldnt happen according to reality

for example i saw an advertizement of a superman movie where they would have digitalized cristpher reeve, right the way it looked odd to me

probably just an hallucination but maybe the matrix(reality) mixes sometimes different spacetimes

myself for a while would be in a timeline where they would digitilize superman and got back to this one

just so you understand my point another your self is wondering how can be she has one sausage cooked and the rest not

one of the sausages switched from one matrix to the other matrix

why? i dont know but this reality is just not what it seems

now you know how i feel with my 2 or 3 times a day precognitions and with my once a week matrix mistakes like the ones i pm to you billfish

03-09-2006, 07:13 AM

03-09-2006, 07:18 AM
Well what say raaaid we forget the supernatural/spirit world/matrix/harry potter magic this go round......and try and look at it from a more realistic aspect.....I think you'll find that much more interesting and exciting to sort out.

03-09-2006, 07:18 AM
for example the day i was mean about my reactionless engine calling people nazis i was kept away from my posting privileges and 5 minutes later was gone

an hallucination, a matrix switch, or some mod banned me and another unbanned me

my post on number seven would dissapear and next day be here, deleted by a mod and reposted by another? or matrix switch

when i tried 4.03 was the most difficult flying model i ever saw and the stall warning was to the left, next time flying model would be normal and stall warning to the right

i would be watching shaolin cartoons about a time machine and the second time i watched them they were the same but completely different

you billfish would have posted a beautifull post in which a line touched me deep but next day was gone

a guy would read my mind in a chat insinuating i was lucifer rencarnation and that i should trust divine justice

i listened comments on the radio like "curious thing is charism which makes a fantoche a redentor or "jesus just suffered for 3 days but other people is suffering for the eternity"

or this girl in the radio saying this stupid guy wanted to be a model but now he sells popcorn and invites me

or when i think id rather not to exist the radio locutor says " there are thoughts that are better not to have"

or how i would see a person who looked a lot like jim carrey with a deformated face by burnt telling jokes on tv

or the tv speaking of a trainer who would have been at several stadiums at the same time with the ring sometimes in one hand some in another

or how i would comment in a chat i was afraid to have invented a time machine and somebody said me the same i had patented a time machine somebody else could have patented a sun stinguisher

or i would see on tv how they explained that to be able to sell chicken cheap they mixed with whatever cheaper meat and with a product reduce the genes of the proteins from millions to just a couple making imposibel detect the origin of the meat

this is just a brief example of my world, i know im not delusional because im not sure of anything on the contrary im so confused

im glad to see that although in less degree than mine odd things happen too to other people

my theory is that karma is so powerfull it can alter time at will

maybe the sausage was a message from the world saying to you that there is something that can do anything, that not everithing is satisfactoribly explained by reason, somethings beyond reason

03-09-2006, 07:41 AM
if you rather a more realistic answer my sister who is a psychiatrist says that premonitions are errors of the memory

i have the absolute conviction im gonna see this girl though is very unprobable

my brain thinks after i see the girl that i had thought id see her, the same for dreams, when it becomes true you create the false memory of having dream it

so you just added a sausage in the end and forgot about it and thought you had added all at the same time but trully one of them didnt cook

thats the only realistic answer you just forgot you add another sausage(you were intending to cook it longer but like you forgot about it)

of course this explanation is valid if you want an answer for all things like me but im realizing this weird things are best ignored and put them in the brain drawer of the unknown

and you are lucky because yours is due to memory loss but my stuff can only be explained realistically by allucinations

but now probably you understand how it feels to face that either your brain is failing or reality is not what it seems

03-09-2006, 07:44 AM
raaaid you crack me up http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

From sausages to Nazis to 4.03 to divine justice back to sausages... that's a true raaaid post http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

03-09-2006, 07:58 AM
Or maybe odd stuff just happens and we live in a random and meaningless universe. Statistical anomalies can be explained (and, indeed, are predicted) by that theory.

Ever hear of Occam's Razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_Razor)?

But, of course, most people prefer stories to facts and insist on finding meanings in meaningless random stuff that can be explained (and indeed was, by me above) by applying some logic and a rudimentary grasp of science.

Yeah, that's what I think.

Then I remember when I worked in a CD shop where every CD was $10, and I had people come up to me quite often with 2 or 3 CDs and ask me "How much does that come to?"

First time it happened, I thought the guy was trying to be funny... but no, there are lots of people who literally can't figure out 1+1=2, let alone 1+1+1=3.

So, let's just go with "magic" as the answer and concentrate on remembering that apostropes don't belong in plurals.

Oh, and raaaid: medication is fun. You should probably just try to concentrate on remembering to take yours and that your doctor wants to help you and has lots and lots of training in this field. Don't worry about apostrophes. Perhaps in your other matrix they belong in plurals. Don't sweat it, just take your medication, please.

03-09-2006, 08:46 AM
Ok well, I sadly must take full blame for where this is gone in that I should have kept my mouth shut..........However, lets try and bring this back down to a more worldly plane.

First off though it would be reasonable to assume due to my age and memory loss, previous party habits, or due to some suddenly occurring ******ation I goofed only putting 4 in not 5...That did not happen....

First off, I watched Karen (one of the cooks) tear open the bag and dump the entire contents into the pan it not yet boiling instantly discarding what was left in its entirety into the trash....(the plastic bag nothing else).

The bag sealed before hand as it came from the factory....(so no old dog added for new tricks).

The water in the pan was roughly an inch beginning, 1 1/4-1 1/2 once the dogs were added.

Electric heating element on high, the pan of a grade only bought by professionals or people with more money then sense.

No brown outs, power losses etc.

Once boiling, boiled for roughly 4-5 minutes.

Looked in the pan seeing all 5 cooking, one however not changing shape.

I watch as all 5 are withdrawn from the pan put on the plate and with no possible substitutes in the house there could not have been a switch.


Being the dogs separated as they cooked early on, and were all side by side the entire time it could not have been where one was shielded by the others.....

They were not switched as a joke, there was no dimensional shift, no hocus pocus....etc.

However, is it possible that it was an end dog in the pack possibly "super cooled" due to its position in the freezer for whatever reason?......Possible but doubtful and unlikely in that similar occurrences have never happened.

Is it possible the dog itself had some sort of defective properties?...Yes, however if it is I should have saved it and made a bazillion dollars marketing a new insulation material....Somehow I also find that possibility unlikely.

Lastly, this is not a hoax or joke...

.........So, take that much and fly with it. Avoid trying to get too tricky or supernatural in your logic and see what you come up with.....

FYI.......17 people here of which probably 10 of would be classified as above genius if tested had this to say about it.....

"Wow, that's really strange"......

03-09-2006, 08:53 AM
ha ha of course i dont fail on having my medication but i also need the support of friends

but interpretation of reality is extreamly difficult there are things that points us to reality not being what it seems

you can go around saying this things are coincidences, mass or single hallucinations

but my problem is the better my thinking works the more i realize that something is not ok

im paricularly sure of the precognition, i would have to be stupid to deny this reality

if i have as a fact that future is written why not accept the existance of parallel universes, in fact is the only way to account for true free will then

and if im able to see the future at times shouldnt i be able to see at times at parallel universes also?

in fact you are closer to be crazier than me because you have no doubt of what reality is while me im in the biggest of the confusions into all are coincidences or most people is just another brick in the wall of this sick big brother or just another concursant like me

dont all religions account for the constant watching of heavenly entiities?

is truly that crazy have supported suspicious that i was a revolutionary imprisoned now by an evil empire with lots like me or just say what i see is not reallity because it doesnt fit what i was taught

thats my problem and billfish (i think) the facts disprove reality, what do you trust your senses and reasoning or what things are supposed to be like?

03-09-2006, 08:54 AM
LEBillfish, would you do me a favour and go back to page 1 and read my first reply. I took several minutes of my valueless time to type a completely reasonable and articulate theory of what happened. I'd like to know that it wasn't in vain.

I can cook and I know some very basic thermodynamic theory, surely that's got to count for something?

03-09-2006, 09:05 AM
Raaaid, I might well be crazier than you, but at least I take my medication every day. Anyway, different variety of crazy, but trust me on this: I am an expert on crazy.

I'm sorry, I shouldn't make fun of you, I mean well but I tend towards being a smartypants at times. I know exactly what you mean by "the support of friends" - we'd probably both be in serious trouble without it.

As a matter of fact, I don't think everything can be explained by science and reason, and I'm quite prepared to believe in all sorts of things. I know that there are things that are not explainable. I just don't think that everything is meaningful. Some stuff is just random chaos.

03-09-2006, 09:14 AM
A gas stove no? Oooops waitaminnit I missed page 2....

Well ya got me.....

03-09-2006, 09:37 AM
i just ate a hot dog to help me think but nothing,

i suppose it was ultrafrozen but once rule out all posible answers take the one is posible but remotly probable as sherlock holmes would say

the problem with this is knowing whats posible

03-09-2006, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by djetz:
LEBillfish, would you do me a favour and go back to page 1 and read my first reply. I took several minutes of my valueless time to type a completely reasonable and articulate theory of what happened. I'd like to know that it wasn't in vain.

I can cook and I know some very basic thermodynamic theory, surely that's got to count for something?

I did before and such an extreme considering even having them in room temperature water for that amount of time alone would have caused considerable thawing let alone the extreme difference of the end results would cause me to discount it.......

As said, electric element evenly heating, pan of exceptional quality simply to avoid uneven heating, dogs resting on the bottom of the pan the entire time though in water........Makes the likelihood of a 1" column of water remaining as an insulating cushion cooling enough itself to not cause normal thawing for perhaps all toll 7-8 minutes I would find highly improbable.

Btw this is not a test, nor do I have an answer.

03-09-2006, 10:48 AM

Are you sure it was frozen? Or could it have been some sort of freezer burn?

Did they try and recook it, and if so did it cook on the second try?

Very strange.

03-09-2006, 11:44 AM
A couple of thoughts on the hot dog thing. First of all, the split hot dogs would have more surface area in direct contact with the boiling water because they were split. Because of this the split hot dogs would cook more quickly than the un-split hot dog, following the natural laws of thermodynamics. Also, if the uncooked hot dog was in the middle of the pack of hot dogs, it could have been kept frozen by the hot dogs surrounding it when it was brought out of the freezer. This means that the hot dog would have required more heat energy to cook thoroughly because it would not have thawed as much as it's companions. Finally, LeBillfish said that they almost all fit in the pan, but not quite. This means that four of the five hot dogs would have been in direct contact with the surface of the pan. Since water will never reach a temperature above 100 degrees centigrade at sea level(or boiling), the hot dogs on the bottom that fit in perfectly will be cooked faster than the one that did not quite fit in and is sitting on top. This is because the hot dogs on the bottom are in direct contact with the pan along much of their surface area and are heated above 100 degrees centigrade by thermal conduction of the heat between the pan and the dogs. The hot dog that didn't quite fit has very little surface area in contact with the pan, it is instead mostly in contact with the other hot dogs and the boiling water. Because of this, the hot dog effectively doesn't cook above the boiling temperature of the water, 100 degrees centigrade. Since it is cooking at a lower temperature overall, it doesn't cook as much as the other hot dogs and remains frozen. This will hopefully explain the phenomenon LeBillfish encountered. No Hocus Pocus, Quantum Physics or Ancient Mysticism required. Just good old fashioned Physics :-)

03-09-2006, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by gxm149:
A couple of thoughts on the hot dog thing. First of all, the split ........:-)

Nope, all 5 fit the pan as I said, you misread. Also, the amount of time it took even if not and under all the conditions you state it would have thawed at the very worst case.....

Also in regard to another post, it was frozen not freezer burned though that was a good thought.

03-09-2006, 02:36 PM
Wow, that's really weird. I'm with you though LEBillfish, even if one hotdog wasn't in contact with the bottom of the pan, or wasn't getting the same amount of heat as the others, I still doubt that after five minutes in boiling water that it would remain FROZEN.

The only thing I can think of, and you mentioned it, is if maybe that one particular hotdog was more frozen than the others...was it directly in front of the fan in the freezer or something else along those lines? If that was the case or possible, even...It would take more btu's and more time to thaw a "colder" hotdog. I'd have to re-read my HVAC books again, but I'm sure it has something to do with the latent heat of melting. Latent heat is heat that has to do with a change of state (frozen to thawed) as opposed to SENSIBLE heat which is heat that you can feel (thawed to cooked.) BUT... I still don't know why that hot dog got so d*mn cold! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I know this isn't the ANSWER the hotdog riddle, but hopefuly it's on the right track. Maybe it will help someone to come up with the answer. The other variable to all this is that it's always questionable as to what the actual ingredients to a hot dog are anyway!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

03-09-2006, 05:45 PM
I assume the "meat paste" that goes into the hotdog "skin" is whipped to include some air, which expands upon heating causing the splitting you've seen (They plumb when ya' cook 'em!). It is conceivable, that a hotdog from the "end of the batch" got mixed into your package that somehow evaded quality control, having no air, was more dense, and therefore heated more slowly. Just my 1/50th dollar.

03-09-2006, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by FA_Razor:
I assume the "meat paste" that goes into the hotdog "skin" is whipped to include some air, which expands upon heating causing the splitting you've seen (They plumb when ya' cook 'em!). It is conceivable, that a hotdog from the "end of the batch" got mixed into your package that somehow evaded quality control, having no air, was more dense, and therefore heated more slowly. Just my 1/50th dollar.

That sounds like a fesible "partial" answer....My guess is though it will be a combination of a few things that night be the eventual "best logical guess"....not just one.

However, the others "alone" don't fly at all... (freezer burn one was a good possibility just not the case)...This answer sounds like a good start though.

03-10-2006, 01:07 AM
Maybe the answer lies not on the stove, but in the freezer. It may be possible that the frozen dog was signifantly colder than the others when they went in. Perhaps that one was on the end of the package and that end was resting in a colder part of the freezer, the wall or floor or whatever surface holds the cooling elemant. Can we rule out a difference in initial temperature?

03-10-2006, 01:09 AM
Wait, I totally have the answer now, the frozen dog had been on a conveyor....

03-10-2006, 03:04 AM
After reading past 2 pages I did notice one glitch, hi end cookery on electric stove. No gas?
Naughty naughty girls...
Electric never heats as uniformly as gas, or so I have been told.
Razor's explanation sound reasonable though.

03-10-2006, 04:10 AM
Where's Tully? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

03-10-2006, 05:48 AM
Hello guys!

Razor said that the hotdog was defective and had no air whatsoever in it.

I take that and enrich it. What if the dog was rock solid and had some air trapped between the skin and the dog itself and with heat it expanded, enveloping the sausage in a cushion of air? That would have the sausage in contact with the skin and boiling only at the bottom. The rest of the dog would be covered by air which is a bad thermal conductor.

Could that give the sausage the necessary time to remain frozen in close contact with a boiling environment? I dont know. I would have to know the thermal properties of the materials to solve the equation (thermal capacity, conductivity, etc etc) and even so it would be extremely difficult, since the materials are not homogenous.


A similar thing happens in some parts of Greece where the tradition (ancient pagan going back 3000 years and more ago)wants people to walk on coals for a considerable amount of time, doing a ceremonial dance. This happens I think in many other countries, and many of you might know it.

Just a wild thought that its in complete opposition with the Ockham's razor since the assumptions are far too many... but... I could think of nothing better!

03-10-2006, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by Targ:
After reading past 2 pages I did notice one glitch, hi end cookery on electric stove. No gas?
Naughty naughty girls...
Electric never heats as uniformly as gas, or so I have been told.
Razor's explanation sound reasonable though.

Don't ask me, I don't cook, and a couple of the larger stoves and griddles are gas, the electric one kind of odd for the rest of the kitchen but used often *shrugs* I just eat the stuff.......Btw, I ate all four of the good dogs...Nummy, and yes I'm a pig.

03-10-2006, 12:16 PM
Next time try microwave, it heats from the inside out.

03-10-2006, 12:50 PM
Assumming the initial state of the 5 hot dogs were the same (and they not being is a decent theory) the next logical possibility is uneven heating. Even a perfectly centered pan can get uneven heating and one side of a pot can vary quite a bit in temp from the other.

Just because a pot of water boils doesn't mean it's all the same temp. It's a turbulent reaction and also posible that if the amount of bubbles was sufficient and the one dog in question was "wrapped" in some of those air bubbles it would have never received enough deep heat to cook the inside.

03-10-2006, 01:08 PM
You say the pan barely held all five on the same level. One hotdog was simply higher in the pan than the others and did not cook as quickly. It happens all the time in kitchens with frozen foods. The key to cooking any frozen food is for it to be stirred or otherwise moved while cooking.
My real question is why the hotdogs were not thawed first. What type of kitchen were they cooked in? A professional kitchen or the kitchen of a hack? Was my Sous Chef there? He can't boil eggs properly! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

03-10-2006, 01:54 PM
The opinion of a RL chef has no bearings on this simulation. We need to know speed of engagement, altitude and who had initial advantage.

03-10-2006, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by BSS_Goat:
The opinion of a RL chef has no bearings on this simulation. We need to know speed of engagement, altitude and who had initial advantage.

and charts & graphs, naturally hod dog specs based on lot # but that's a given. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif