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AndyJWest
08-11-2009, 12:30 PM
This question was asked by gorkyporky in the 'Flight Sim Revisionism?' topic: in full -


is there a way to make a server that kicks you off after you have been killed, or just prevents respawning?

I suspect that but something like this would probably not only make for greater 'realism', but discourage some of the less savoury things that some people get up to on the more madcap furball servers. Twice, yesterday, I managed to get my Ki-84 nicely on the tail on a Bf 109 (yeah, that sort of server...) only for it to disappear as soon as I opened fire, thus depriving me of the satisfaction (and points, though I try to ignore those anyway) of a kill.

I'd have thought that technically this wouldn't be that difficult, though I don't know anything much about server software - perhaps someone who does can answer....

na85
08-11-2009, 12:32 PM
Warclouds features a deathkick.

After 3 deaths you are banned and may not return for 5 minutes, after which you get another 3 deaths.

Unfortunately warclouds is closing their doors on Sept 1. They use a modified version of Gennadich's IL2 Server Commander.

Manu-6S
08-11-2009, 12:43 PM
You can.. but it's not recommended.
Usually they limit the deaths at 3 for gaming session.

Why?

Because somebody must die in a server, and you'll find yourself flying 5vs5 all the time.

If you want to do something similar, then run Coops... it's the only way.

And, BTW, coops are the easiest way to present again historical episodes... what about 12 B17 with 8 P51 at 7km against 8 G10 and 12 190A8 with mk108 gondolas? Only on coop you can do that... or in seow compaigns..

robtek1957
08-11-2009, 01:08 PM
Historical would be 12 x B17 and 8 x P51 vs 2 x G10 and 3 x A8 me thinks.

On Topic: afaik most full real server have a deathkick after 2 or 3 deaths.

Manu-6S
08-11-2009, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by robtek1957:
Historical would be 12 x B17 and 8 x P51 vs 2 x G10 and 3 x A8 me thinks.


OT: I don't think... usually the german antibomber formation outnumbered the escort fighters in the bombers' zone.. the problem for the germa is that the Allied had full air superiority over the France.

megalopsuche
08-11-2009, 01:36 PM
Wow. This has to be the least fun idea I have ever heard of. Great way to discourage risk-taking and inovation.

DuxCorvan
08-11-2009, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by robtek1957:
Historical would be 12 x B17 and 8 x P51 vs 2 x G10 and 3 x A8 me thinks.

On Topic: afaik most full real server have a deathkick after 2 or 3 deaths.

Minus the AI robocop gunners, OR the too easy to aim gunner stations. You know, that mouse doesn't weight 38 kg. and your seat isn't boobing all the time. Some simulated inertia and tiring would be OK.

MD_Titus
08-11-2009, 01:38 PM
great way to discourage air-quake, ramming, dumb tactics and generally not flying to survive.

na85
08-11-2009, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by megalopsuche:
Wow. This has to be the least fun idea I have ever heard of. Great way to discourage risk-taking and inovation.



Originally posted by MD_Titus:
great way to discourage air-quake, ramming, dumb tactics and generally not flying to survive.

I'd say both of these are pretty accurate statements.

Xiolablu3
08-11-2009, 02:23 PM
It promotes more careful, realistic flying as people are more careful with their virtual 'life'.

If you want more fun and action then dont have a death kick.

If you want more realistic flying then use a death kick.


None is better, they are just different. I like both depending on my mood.

rnzoli
08-11-2009, 02:57 PM
Co-op missions will not kick you, but prevent you from respawn. So you can remain and watch the rest of the action http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

However co-op missoins also mean you cannot just join a fly, and this annoys the hell out of many people, as they can't wait for action. They MUST rush into the thick of it and die fast http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AndyJWest
08-11-2009, 03:23 PM
Hmmm, food for thought here...

It seems that it's not so much kicking people off after they are shot down that is needed, as a server that won't allow you to respawn immediately if you hit 'refly' while airbourne. That was what was annoying me yesterday, as it seemed that someone was using it as a way to avoid getting killed, and thus inflate his own 'score'.

Probably my best option, though, is to work on my own skills so I don't have to play on the sort of servers where people think this is acceptable.

BillSwagger
08-11-2009, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by DuxCorvan:

Minus the AI robocop gunners, OR the too easy to aim gunner stations. You know, that mouse doesn't weight 38 kg. and your seat isn't boobing all the time. Some simulated inertia and tiring would be OK.

my gramps flew as a tail gunner on B-17s, and you'd be surprised. They received tons of air gunner training that prepared them for their missions.
It was also said that the tail gunner position was often the most important because it offered the widest field of view. so long as you saw them soon enough, or were radioed where to expect them, it wasn't hard to shoot at an airplane from the gunner position.

I know the AI seems to be honed in on hitting the engine, but i think its because the game modeling needs to compensate for some of the more resistant damage models.
It would be very unsurvivable for a 190 to park behind a Fortress and shoot.

'Parking' is also something of the gaming world, and was not a recommended tactic for taking on bomber formations, yet time and time again i see planes crawl right up to back of a bomber and spray away with very little consequence. So long as people 'park' then i think its right to have deadly accurate AI. It would force them to use slashing attacks from the side or attack from the front which is in line with historical accounts.

And for the people who cry about it, think about what you are saying.
You have a plane with fixed guns, shooting at a plane with multiple guns that are able to swivel around and makes shots on target for longer intervals. I'm not sure how shooting a plane from a swiveled platform would be more difficult than shooting from a plane with fixed guns, in fact, it would be much easier.

Woke_Up_Dead
08-11-2009, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by AndyJWest:
Hmmm, food for thought here...

It seems that it's not so much kicking people off after they are shot down that is needed, as a server that won't allow you to respawn immediately if you hit 'refly' while airbourne. That was what was annoying me yesterday, as it seemed that someone was using it as a way to avoid getting killed, and thus inflate his own 'score'.

Better yet, how about a 60 second time-out after you die, that way you don't end up hitting refly mindlessly over and over again, and you don't go chasing off after the guy who just shot you down deep inside your own turf.

danjama
08-11-2009, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by robtek1957:
Historical would be 12 x B17 and 8 x P51 vs 2 x G10 and 3 x A8 me thinks.

On Topic: afaik most full real server have a deathkick after 2 or 3 deaths.

LOLOL

megalopsuche
08-11-2009, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by MD_Titus:
great way to discourage air-quake, ramming, dumb tactics and generally not flying to survive.

I fly in a 1-life, historical event every Friday in Aces High that draws 500 people. I understand the value of it in a setup with squads, targets to defend and attack, etc.

1-life for a dogfight server is like discouraging fast running in a room with padded walls and floors. What's more, ganging-the-crap out of single aircraft is still the order of the day on servers with more "realistic" settings. Limiting lives only encourages timidity. What the air-quakers still understand far more profoundly than those who ridicule them is that dogfight servers are for combat. You're denying yourself a chance to learn something if you insist on flying like your life depends on it, and those who can let go of that puritanical mindset learn to fly circles around those who don't.

rnzoli
08-11-2009, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by BillSwagger:
So long as people 'park' then i think its right to have deadly accurate AI. It would force them to use slashing attacks from the side or attack from the front which is in line with historical accounts. Unfortunately even when you attack that way, you far too often get hit, far too accurately, if the bomber's skill is above average. Talk to a guy call 'horseback', he has millions of in-game stories like that. E.g., getting shot down from a bomber that already lost its wing and spiraling down violently. No parking there...


I'm not sure how shooting a plane from a swiveled platform would be more difficult than shooting from a plane with fixed guns, in fact, it would be much easier. Fixed to what? To an airframe hanging in thin air with 4 powerful engines vibrating the whole thing? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif At least on lower altitudes, the turbulence and airframe vibration would affect gun accuracy. On higher altitude, the cold and the fear of being hit is affecting the gunners themselves. Given the weight of these guns, they are not so easy to swing around as you can do in game.

rnzoli
08-11-2009, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by AndyJWest:
Hmmm, food for thought here...

It seems that it's not so much kicking people off after they are shot down that is needed, as a server that won't allow you to respawn immediately if you hit 'refly' while airbourne. That was what was annoying me yesterday, as it seemed that someone was using it as a way to avoid getting killed, and thus inflate his own 'score'.
There is no way to prevent that. If the re-fly key would be disabled, he would just cut his internet cable and disconnect instead.

In SEOW online wars, the problem is taken care of by the possibility to force landings. If a player disconnects without landing, he is MIA, and his aircraft is not taskable in next missions, it's gone for good.

Sure enough, this is a controversial setting, since you can disconnect by accident, loss of network, bad ping, even server problems can kick you with a timeout. However, in some campaigns, this is taken as an aircraft reliability issue and it normally happens equally to both sides.

gorkyporky
08-12-2009, 04:38 AM
Oh my, I feel so proud right now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

On a serious note, i think that when shoot down or killed or whatever, you would have a 60s waiting time for respawning, but if you managed to land in your base you would be able to refly instantly. I think a system like this would have some degree of punishment for death, so people would care more about their virtual self, as well as not impact the risk taking and dofighting and such.

Bearcat99
08-12-2009, 06:24 AM
Originally posted by megalopsuche:
Wow. This has to be the least fun idea I have ever heard of. Great way to discourage risk-taking and inovation.

Sounds like a good plan to me...


Originally posted by MD_Titus:
great way to discourage air-quake, ramming, dumb tactics and generally not flying to survive.

Sounds like a good plan to me...


Originally posted by gorkyporky:
Oh my, I feel so proud right now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

On a serious note, i think that when shoot down or killed or whatever, you would have a 60s waiting time for respawning, but if you managed to land in your base you would be able to refly instantly. I think a system like this would have some degree of punishment for death, so people would care more about their virtual self, as well as not impact the risk taking and dofighting and such.

Sounds like a good plan to me...

K_Freddie
08-13-2009, 12:31 PM
Here's a server/on-line war that does this...
Air Domination War (ADW) (http://www.adw.alkar.net/en/)
Maybe you can ask them details in their forum..

I have mentioned this server before... as mentioned 'quake wars' do not exist here.

Xiolablu3
08-13-2009, 02:50 PM
Guys, firing a .50 cal Mg from a turret or even a .303 mg results in the 'aim' bouncing all over from the recoil.

Its definitely NOT as easy as pointing your mouse at the attacking plane and holding the fire button down.

Gunners would shoot in bursts so that they could keep as good-a aim as possible. Much more than a second burst and it would be very hard to keep the guns on target.

I know its just a film, but this shows how gunners would fire in real life :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuI0gFUq3HY

Tully__
08-14-2009, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by AndyJWest:
Hmmm, food for thought here...

It seems that it's not so much kicking people off after they are shot down that is needed, as a server that won't allow you to respawn immediately if you hit 'refly' while airbourne. That was what was annoying me yesterday, as it seemed that someone was using it as a way to avoid getting killed, and thus inflate his own 'score'.

Probably my best option, though, is to work on my own skills so I don't have to play on the sort of servers where people think this is acceptable.
I'm not sure, but I think that in servers where the Takeoffs and Landings difficulty setting is turned on, this behaviour counts as a lost aircraft for that side and counts towards the end result for the mission. On servers that have the victory conditions set to include number of aircraft destroyed and this difficulty setting turned on, hitting refly without landing is aiding the other side.

SeaFireLIV
08-14-2009, 10:15 PM
Warclouds is one of the few Icon servers I fly, specifically because of the death kick. It promotes flying and fighting to stay alive which means TEAMWORK and being more careful. For me, it makes up for using Icons.

How many times i`ve chuckled as i`ve watched some kid do his usual shootoff at high speed in any direction just to crash and burn on the grass and get kicked. Next time, he actually uses the runway.

And it can be shocking when after an hour or so, you suddenly get kicked, but you are NOT banned and can rejoin about 5 mins later. It`s a great system.