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View Full Version : New hardware toy for simpit builders: Canopy screen



Black_Ops7
04-13-2009, 03:10 AM
Hi guys,

Did you guys already see this piece of nice hardware that could add to our imersion experience for simpit owners?

http://www.frex.com/gp/canopy/canopy_en.html

Its 972 or $ 1,282 without shipping.
( http://frex.xsrv.jp/gpshop/cat...id=11&products_id=99 (http://frex.xsrv.jp/gpshop/catalog/product_info.php?currency=EUR&manufacturers_id=11&products_id=99) )

Its made by the company frex who specialise in HW for race sims but i think this canopy screen is perfect for flight sim use as wel.

Vid of it used with a flight sim:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7XOnET6nVk

Uufflakke
04-13-2009, 04:04 AM
According their site you need to have a projector to project the reversed image on the outside of the screen. Which is not included.
If you want to use this utility you need to have some extra space in front of you for the projector and you have to play in darkness I guess otherwise you won't see the image on the canopy. I don't think you can combine it with a headtracking device because there is no possibility to attach a webcam in it.

I think I will stick to my good old screen then.

Black_Ops7
04-13-2009, 04:32 AM
Webcam? you have one of those diy headtracking solutions.

Buy a proper one like track-ir4 , that unit will fit somewhere in the canopy.

Codex1971
04-13-2009, 05:07 AM
That's prety cool. The TrackIR could be mounted in lots of locations, even secured up-side down.

Flight_boy1990
04-13-2009, 06:40 AM
IMO this sux.
The screen is too much oval,and it is just like an ovaled/rounded big monitor.Also this is what's making it awfull also plus what Uufflakke already said.
You'll just give your money for nothing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Tab_Flettner
04-13-2009, 07:45 AM
There looks to be a tremendous amount of image distortion on the sides of the "canopy". I think is to be expected with the way the image is being projected. Neat idea, but I'm not sure how applicable it would be to flight sims. As long as you held F1 view all the time, maybe, but as a TIR user I'd have to be sold on the "looking around" part.

Choctaw111
04-13-2009, 10:06 AM
Hmm. I'm not sure about this one. I would want to see more of it in action, especially some flight sim stuff.

triad773
04-13-2009, 12:18 PM
I see too much distortion from the edges of the parabolic screen. I'd rather stick with a larger LCD myself. Nice looking toy though. Looks like that gear may work better with racing sims to me.

davstub
04-13-2009, 01:25 PM
I'm thinking it could be quite effective with TrackIR if it truly covers your field of view. It would mimic human vision, where only a small part of the central field is resolved in detail. I understand peripheral vision is just picking up movement, not detail.

K_Freddie
04-13-2009, 01:49 PM
I think the image will to be too blury to be effective.
With the organic/flexible LCD panels coming up, it's just a matter of time when a nice cheapy helmet arrives.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

KG26_Alpha
04-13-2009, 04:26 PM
Makes me feel sick thinking about those warped perspectives and elongated textures.

Stiletto-
04-13-2009, 05:39 PM
I've seen this kind of thing brought up before. I don't think its that bad of an idea even with some side panel distortion and lower image quality.. You have to remember that instead of one monitor in front of you running at 1080i or whatever, you have the same amount of pixels and maybe 3 or 4 times the real estate.

I don't think it is worth the price however. As it costs over a grand, and then you need a HD projector which can easily be a grand or two.. Why not just get a large HD TV.. Which is pricesly what I plan to do in a couple weeks, get a 52" LCD and mount it directly in front of my face on top of a sim cockpit with an extremely large FOV. You will get a similar effect but better image quality and you can still watch tv.

idonno
04-13-2009, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by Stiletto-:

I don't think it is worth the price however. As it costs over a grand, and then you need a HD projector which can easily be a grand or two..



Also, replacement bulbs for those projectors are quite expensive last time I checked. As much as I play, buying new bulbs would break me.

Bearcat99
04-13-2009, 07:36 PM
I'll wait till the OLED version comes out before I start to drool..

triad773
04-13-2009, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
I think the image will to be too blury to be effective.
With the organic/flexible LCD panels coming up, it's just a matter of time when a nice cheapy helmet arrives.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

The wall's the limit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

It'll be cool. Hope I live to see it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

julian265
04-13-2009, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by Black_Ops7:
Webcam? you have one of those diy headtracking solutions.

Buy a proper one like track-ir4 , that unit will fit somewhere in the canopy.

Haha, "proper".

It's not a matter of size. My webcam is the same size as as the TIR solution. With either tracker, you'd have to mount it either above or below the screen, or behind you. I know the DIY tracker can do this, and I'd assume TIR can too.

Black_Ops7
04-14-2009, 12:49 AM
Yes the side's are warped... but our view does not see it focused anyway?
When we sit in the simpit and look straight ahead, the stuff you see in your left eye corner and your right eye corner is not focused anyway? We just aware of object in that part and if they move.
So warped side view is not a big thing is it?

julian265: Track ir 4 track unit can be placed in the bottom middle of the screen.

Vanderstok
04-14-2009, 01:36 AM
True, if you would sit in the middle of that dome and the FOV is set correctly in the sim, you should see no distortion. Why they didn't put the camera where normally the head is, is beyond me. Now everyone will think you get a very distorted view.... (won't buy it anyway, much too cumbersome!)

raaaid
04-14-2009, 07:28 AM
oh the collective uncouncious i was talking of this long ago

just think this dome allows for the horizon to be seen as a perfect 360 straight line

a bend line appears straight

Black_Ops7
04-14-2009, 11:31 AM
Tested something:

I am sitting 60 cm away from my 22 inch tft wide screen.
My left and right speakers on my desk that are 10cm away from my screen are already out of focus for my eyes.

my Logitech G15 screen thats is only 4cm from my screen (counting from top of g15 screen to actual game image so not monitor beezel/ plastic edge) is already out of focus!

So saying that you are bothered with the fact that the image is bend/warped at the side's of the canopy and the top is rubish as you are not confronted with that fact when you are sitting in the pit with your face about 60 cm to 100 cm away from the middle of the canopy.


BUT the price is steep yes, also a beamer that has out put resolution higher then 1024x768 is high, about 1000 euro or a bit more (not talking about HD beamers, thats overkill)

So maybe waiting for that curved gaming screen from alienware is the simpit builders alternative to get more immersion for a nice price..... that is if that monster of a screen is priced lower then 1000 euro.

Outlaw---
04-14-2009, 12:36 PM
This is very old technology so no "collective unconscious" cr@p necessary for this device to have been invented. Such screens have been in use for years. Older full scale simulators use them and some newer ones probably use them as well although I think multiple LCDs are becoming more popular.

I don't believe you see the distortion once your head is positioned correctly. IIRC it even corrects for the "fish eye" effect introduced with large fields of view, which is its main purpose. Although with such a small screen it might not be as effective as the big ones. I'm not exactly sure about that though.

Doesn't everyone have a projector already??!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I got mine years ago and I'm usually behind the curve on technology. The bulb for my 7 year old projector last a couple of thousand hours and are $300 each. The new ones are much less expensive and last longer.

Head tracking is simple as you just mount the device behind you.

--Outlaw.

Black_Ops7
04-14-2009, 12:44 PM
yeah projectors that have 800x600 or 1024x768 resolution output are "cheap"

problem is the price of projectors that do higher resolution then 1024x768 , so projectors that do 1280x1024 or 1280x800


Checked the alternatives and the prices:

3 monitor setup:
22 inch monitor 140 euro x 3 = 420 euro
Matrox TripleHead2GO Digital Edition = 275 euro
Total 695 euro

or

Medium quality beamer:
BenQ MP512-ST 469 euro
specs:
2200 ANSI
Resolution SXGA (1280 x 1024)
Contrast 2000 : 1
3000 hour bulb burn time on normal mode
Put in a nice projection screen +/- 150 euro for nice size.
Total 620 euro

or

Alienware curved gaming screen.
Price unknown
Release date summer 2008? Its now almost summer 2009 where is the product?

or

TFT TV Full HD screen cheap brand,42 inch/106.6 cm = 640 euro



Not realy for size but for immersion factor:

Nvidia 3D vision:
Bundle glasses unit + 120Hz LCD Samsung SyncMaster 2233RZ = $598
(FYI: Turning nvidia stereoscopic mode on reduces your frame rate by half. So worse case example: Play Crysis at full detail on the fastest single GPU card (nvidia GTX 285) FPS just above 33 FPS? so with this tech on the game will run 15 fps....so unplayable. Because IL2 is old i believe you wont have issue with proper fast pc but with BoB-SoW we wont be so lucky)

or

eMagin Z800 3DVisor (OLED headset unit with build in headtracking) 1.499 dollar
(Resolution sucks...800x600 when will we get oled headsets with proper resolution and normal price)

Black_Ops7
04-15-2009, 05:38 AM
Nec beats alienware with the release date of a curved screen:

NEC CRV43
$7,999 Estimated Street Price
Available May 2009
http://www.necdisplay.com/NewT...ogies/CurvedDisplay/ (http://www.necdisplay.com/NewTechnologies/CurvedDisplay/)

But the price is not aimed at the gaming market.

by the way does somebody have pics or vids of Il2 in action on 3x 22 inch WIDE screen monitor with triplehead2go DIGITAL edition that has proper WIDESCREEN support?

Only vid on youtube is of a guy with 1 crt + 2 tft and he has fov or not proper widescreen res?
I see the wings in the left and right screen pointing forward a bit so looks like crappy.
Other 2 vids showing triplehead2go in action in il2 are short outside view vids not showing cockpit view at all.

(Oooh wait my fault, he cant have widescreen support on that supa dupa old crt screen and what seems like 2x normal 4:3 aspect ratio TFT screens, so thats why his fov is screwy and not what i expect it to be on 3x 22 inch wide + triplehead2go digital edition?)

Lurch1962
05-06-2009, 12:55 AM
I don't like this device for a number of reasons. High on the list is the fact that it's seemingly designed to project a view more appropriate for horizon (dashboard) and up, whereas I feel that it should be more symmetrical in the vertical axis. For example, when looking straight at the gun sight, the view covers just as large an angle *below* the A/C axis (and in general the horizon line during level flight) as above.

Unlike the comment made earlier which suggested that the curved screen will *correct* for the already-present distortion, I maintain that it will actually *exaggerate* it. Here's why...

At wide FOVs, note how objects toward the edges/corners of the screen are stretched along a line pointing away from the view center. This is most certainly *not* fisheye distortion, as it's so commonly and incorrectly called. In fact it's quite the opposite, because fisheye distortion causes objects to be compressed, not stretched radially.

Flight sims all exhibit this same kind of distortion due to the gnomonic projection used. This is a necessary consequence of rendering all straight lines as straight, no matter where they appear in the field of view. And straight lines are required so that polygons can be drawn most efficiently for highest frames/second.

If the IL-2 view, with its radial stretching off-axis, were to be projected onto such a curved screen, the stretching would be *very* much more pronounced. And the extra distance required to project to the "edge" of the screen vs the nearer center could result in some amount of de-focus to boot.

On the contrary, the best screen upon which to project the view in order to *not* exaggerate this distortion is a *flat* screen. And when you position yourself so as to be as far from the screen as its half-width (for the widest 90 deg. FOV, that is), the distortion will completely disappear! For example, the gunsight reticle will be seen as properly round--not elliptical--even when at the very corner of the view.

The obvious follow-on to this is the natural evolution of the TripleHead2Go system. Imagine a set-up where three large, flat rear projection screens are arranged edge-to-edge and mutually perpendicular. That is, they would make up three sides of a box, with no gaps. Now position yourself so that your head is exactly in the middle of this partial box. A TH2Go setup driving three projectors for these screens would now deliver a perfectly undistorted view extending for a full 270 degrees horizontally, at the correct 1:1 scale as would be seen in reality.

(As an aside, the oft-noted Superman-arms-forward appearance of your plane's wings as seen with the usual monitor arrangement in a TH2Go setup is just because the screens are *not* oriented like the sides of a box *and* because the player is *not* positioned at the required dead center of this box. But in order to achieve this, the screens must be of some minimum size, obviously!)

Kettenhunde
05-06-2009, 01:34 AM
Training: $2800-$3500
Total: $2840-$3500

Flying is the ultimate way to enjoy the outdoors and explore new destinations from a whole new perspective. So give yourself the gift of flight today!



http://www.sportpilot.org/newpilot/how_much.html

Why spend 1200USD on a piece of plastic to sit on your butt?

That same money could put you well on your way to getting a license to fly the real thing.

All the best,

Crumpp

P.FunkAdelic
05-06-2009, 02:08 PM
http://www.sportpilot.org/images/how_much-2.jpg
Is that a TrackIR or something on the dash? XD