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CaptAce
12-21-2005, 03:46 AM
Has anyone else noticed that when you happen to collide with a spitfire, any variant, it survives?

I've had 4 head-on collisions in the time I've played online with Spitfires and every single time I was decimated, while the spit merely flew on! I fly 190's.

It's not often that I collide with planes, but these instances just stuck out. Is this just a strange coincidence or have others experienced this?

Tully__
12-21-2005, 03:53 AM
Not just spitfires. The collision system is a little hokie, particularly online. Better than in some other games though, at least you actually have to collide rather than just come within a few metres.

CaptAce
12-21-2005, 04:17 AM
Originally posted by Tully__:
Not just spitfires. The collision system is a little hokie, particularly online. Better than in some other games though, at least you actually have to collide rather than just come within a few metres.

I agree Tully, it is better than other games...

What made me think it was just with spitfires is that 4 out of 4 times I've collided with them, they have survived. Plus, in those 4 times, I crashed due to damage from the collision almost immediatly. So, spitfire survived 100% of the time and my 190 0% of the time... It just struck me as more than a simple coincidence, but it may just be that...

KG26_Alpha
12-21-2005, 04:40 AM
Correcting post due to intoxication at the time of posting hic !

Vipez-
12-21-2005, 04:51 AM
Usually, when i've seen collisions, or others collide, most of the times it is clearly the faster flying airplane goes down in flames or without wings after colliding, while the slower plane keeps flying with little to no damage what so ever.. for example when I B&Z someone, and i get too close it's allways me who have bounced the other fellow it's me who goes down without my wing, and the guy who i bounced keeps flying happily not knowing what just happened..offcourse the higher the latencys are (or packet loss), even stranger things can happen...

robban75
12-21-2005, 04:58 AM
Originally posted by Vipez-:
Usually, when i've seen collisions, or others collide, most of the times it is clearly the faster flying airplane goes down in flames or without wings after colliding, while the slower plane keeps flying with little to no damage what so ever.

Very true. I usually fly the 190, and so I BnZ. Which means I usually have more energy than my opponent. Every now and then I collide with my target, and I end up losing a wing or two, whereas my target perhaps loses and elevator, or sometimes nothing at all.

Vipez-
12-21-2005, 06:04 AM
exactly.. it's very strange.. but proven.. So definately it's not about Spitfire's DM, but generally buggy collision modelling.. hopefully it will be better in BOB.

This reminds me of Operation Flashpoint's collision modelling, which was very amuzing at some times.. for example you were standing inside a house, and the house is blown up, the house sort of sucks you up inside structures, and you are stuck there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

CaptAce
12-21-2005, 06:07 AM
Higher speed planes getting more damage is a good theory. I'm glad other people are noticing this, because it might mean my luck isn't as bad as I thought it was!

The-Pizza-Man
12-21-2005, 06:22 AM
Whenever I've collided with anything it seems I just get a big explosion and tiny bits of aircraft falling to the ground. I can't remember the last time I collided with something and survived no matter what the plane.

HART_dreyer
12-21-2005, 06:39 AM
This has nothing to do with which aircraft it is or how fast it's going.

This is a symptom of lag. What happends? Basically there is no client-server netcode in IL2, what you see on your screen is not nececssarily 100% in-sync with what another player see's on his screen. So while your aircraft might crash and register a collision with your enemy, the guy flying the Spitfire will never have collided with you on his screen due to lag.

Objects move so fast in the game, it would take an enormeous amount of resources to maintain a in-sync enviorment as you find in other games such as for instance Counter-Strike (or close to). That's why also someone might shoot at you, bullets might pass you 10-50 meters away and still your wing comes off, simply because the player's client that shot you (on his screen) tells the server "hey! I hit that guy" and therefore the server tells your client "you've been hit!".

CaptAce
12-21-2005, 06:52 AM
Originally posted by HART_dreyer:
This has nothing to do with which aircraft it is or how fast it's going.

This is a symptom of lag. What happends? Basically there is no client-server netcode in IL2, what you see on your screen is not nececssarily 100% in-sync with what another player see's on his screen. So while your aircraft might crash and register a collision with your enemy, the guy flying the Spitfire will never have collided with you on his screen due to lag.

Objects move so fast in the game, it would take an enormeous amount of resources to maintain a in-sync enviorment as you find in other games such as for instance Counter-Strike (or close to). That's why also someone might shoot at you, bullets might pass you 10-50 meters away and still your wing comes off, simply because the player's client that shot you (on his screen) tells the server "hey! I hit that guy" and therefore the server tells your client "you've been hit!".

I thought about this, too. The problem with this theory is that I never experience any other symptoms of serious warping/lag. Other than the occasional stutter, I don't seem to have net issues. I've never had an instance of bullets doing damage when they look as if they are far away or anything like that.

Plus, when I asked the guys I collided with if they took damage, they all said they did, whether it was just a fuel leak or severely damaged controls. This suggests that both of us experienced the collision.

JG53Frankyboy
12-21-2005, 07:00 AM
my experience of over 4 years of online flying is also:
the faster plane goes down.
the slower one is "only" damaged, if at all.

Hristo_
12-21-2005, 07:07 AM
Back when I flew on dial-up, a strange thing happened.

A guy just in front of me hit the silk. I had milliseconds to react and barely avoided collision with his chute.

As I looked behind me, I saw his chute had collapsed. At first i was impressed at level of detail of this sim, as my plane caused turbulence to collapse someone's chute.

But it was more simple than that - due to latency, on his end i actually did collide with his chute. He made am angry comment on open channel as well, and it took some time to convince him what happened http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

I believe it was Airwarrior more than a decade ago where this model of collision was introduced. Due to latency, we are actually flying in two similar virtual airspaces. It wouldn't be fair to punish a guy who avoided the collision on his end just because the other guy had collided on his end. The only place where collision should be "fair" is offline.

HART_dreyer
12-21-2005, 07:08 AM
Trust me, it is lag.

Just watch this track of my death:
http://www.dreyermachine.com/il2/ntrk/06_10_2004-4.ntrk

You'll easily see the bullets several meters below me, yet I get PK'ed.

It does not matter if you are having any net problems, if you're flying with a 120-200 ping that means there's a 0.2 second delay between your client and the server. That is a significant amount of time when the object in the game is moving at 500-600Km\h.

Te_Vigo
12-21-2005, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by The-Pizza-Man:
Whenever I've collided with anything it seems I just get a big explosion and tiny bits of aircraft falling to the ground. I can't remember the last time I collided with something and survived no matter what the plane.

I'm in the same ball of flame here.
It doesn't matter which plane, it's always me crying curses (well...polite ones http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif)

CaptAce
12-21-2005, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by HART_dreyer:
Trust me, it is lag.

Just watch this track of my death:
http://www.dreyermachine.com/il2/ntrk/06_10_2004-4.ntrk

You'll easily see the bullets several meters below me, yet I get PK'ed.

It does not matter if you are having any net problems, if you're flying with a 120-200 ping that means there's a 0.2 second delay between your client and the server. That is a significant amount of time when the object in the game is moving at 500-600Km\h.

I'm sure that lag is causing some of these instances. But, there has to be something else going on in other cases because of reasons I stated in my post above. In your track it appears that lag did cause that weird collision. However, I am almost 100% sure that lag had nothing to do with any of my 4 instances.

HART_dreyer
12-21-2005, 07:21 AM
Maybe there is a bug, I can't say for sure. But I doubt it. The most logical explanation is lag.

I've done formation flying on LAN with a 5 ping and the collision models has always seemed very, very reliable and accurate.

Badsight.
12-21-2005, 05:12 PM
i have been the faster plane & suffered the worst

i have been the slower plane & suffered the worst

i have been lower , shooting , higher , not shooting , banking , flying straight & have ended up coming off worst in a near or bang on collision

its so random its not funny (i have "won" many collisions as well) . there is no way to tell who exactly should suffer the worst in an online FB game collision (many collisions make both paticipants suffer)

here is me getting PK by a team-mate in a formation flying pratice session . this is the exact moment my pilot was killed :

http://xs60.xs.to/pics/05514/WT.jpg

on his screen , his wing passed thru my canopy & the game said my pilot was killed , his plane suffered no apparent ill effects