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View Full Version : The Deaf Holocaust: Deaf people and Nazi germany



BillyTheKid_22
02-07-2007, 01:23 PM
www.bbc.co.uk?seehear/extra/nazispecial/ (http://www.bbc.co.uk?seehear/extra/nazispecial/)



See Extra Seacrh!!



http://www.bbc.co.uk/seehear/images/extra/nazispecial/letter_150x150.jpg

AKA_TAGERT
02-07-2007, 01:25 PM
I hear yah

VF-17_Jolly
02-07-2007, 01:57 PM
"As part of the season of programmes commemorating the 60th anniversary of the Holocaust and the liberation of Auschwitz, Clive Mason visits the killing centre of Hadamar to investigate the development and impact of the Nazi policy of enforced sterilisation and the murder of deaf and disabled people, which took place in Germany between 1933 and 1945. Members of the German deaf community, who are still living with the legacy of this brutal Nazi policy, tell their moving stories for the first time on television."

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Evil

Esel1964
02-07-2007, 11:11 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gifHorrific-but,what wasn't horrific about the racial cleansing/Holocaust? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

BillyTheKid_22
02-07-2007, 11:12 PM
I know!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif I am sad !!

VonShlagnoff
02-08-2007, 04:59 AM
Nver even heard the Gestapo coming http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

BSS_Goat
02-08-2007, 05:46 AM
Originally posted by VonShlagnoff:
Nver even heard the Gestapo coming http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif Thats funny stuff there..... not very nice ......but funny.

MEGILE
02-08-2007, 05:53 AM
Originally posted by VonShlagnoff:
Nver even heard the Gestapo coming http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

lmao.

Seriously though... that's some fecked up chit.

MadRuski
02-08-2007, 06:08 AM
iam right now reading a Auschwitz book, aparently it was written by Doctor Josef Mengele's first assistnt Dr Miklos Nyiszli's.

only in first few pages but know its not gonna be a nice story, front cover of the book will send chills down anyones spines.

Feathered_IV
02-08-2007, 06:31 AM
There was a documentary called Selling Murder a few years back, about the Nazi propaganda machine and the promotion of the idea of 'mercy killings' of handicapped people. Very sad indeed.

SeaFireLIV
02-08-2007, 06:49 AM
Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
There was a documentary called Selling Murder a few years back, about the Nazi propaganda machine and the promotion of the idea of 'mercy killings' of handicapped people. Very sad indeed.

Some people still talk about doing it today...


Seen it all, read it all. Even wept over it, even though I was never there. Everyone, especially young people who don`t want to know then say `why they can`t have a cool SS uniform` in some game, should watch read and digest this stuff at least 3 times in their young lives so they do not forget what Man can and will do if given the chance. And it could one day happen to YOU!

major_setback
02-08-2007, 07:10 AM
Originally posted by VonShlagnoff:
Nver even heard the Gestapo coming http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif


Cruuuuuueeel. But funny.

Terrible times. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Xiolablu3
02-08-2007, 07:18 AM
Geez the Nazis were just ridiculous and hypocrites, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Have you seen this?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/seehear/extra/nazispecial/nazifactsheet.shtml


There are Nazi deaf leaders, but they say they also want to steralize deaf people.

I have real problems understanding exactly what the Nazis were about, it seems a complete mish-mash of conradictions to me.

SeaFireLIV
02-08-2007, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Geez the Nazis were just ridiculous and hypocrites, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Have you seen this?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/seehear/extra/nazispecial/nazifactsheet.shtml


There are Nazi deaf leaders, but they say they also want to steralize deaf people.

I have real problems understanding exactly what the Nazis were about, it seems a complete mish-mash of conradictions to me.

It`s often a political trick to get the same people of a particular minority to `belittle` themselves in favour of something that`s actually not good for them. Usually there are people in the background who are NOT of the minority cohersing them to do this.

All sorts of cohersion can be used from personal greed (money) to threats against family or even death threats. It is also possible that some may even believe this or want this too.

stathem
02-08-2007, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Geez the Nazis were just ridiculous and hypocrites, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Have you seen this?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/seehear/extra/nazispecial/nazifactsheet.shtml


There are Nazi deaf leaders, but they say they also want to steralize deaf people.

I have real problems understanding exactly what the Nazis were about, it seems a complete mish-mash of conradictions to me.

Yep, the Nazi leaders also murdered homosexuals.

leitmotiv
02-08-2007, 08:41 AM
The deaf, the insane, the handicapped gassed in a prelude to the Holocaust. The interesting thing is that what the NSDAP was doing got out, and there was an outcry by the Germans. The program had to be stopped. Thus, the Jewish extermination was conducted in Poland, which became a vast death factory, in secrecy. There is a good film about the Auschwitz revolt which resulted in the heroic destruction of one of the crematoria which was a blow at the camps ability to maintain "production" of dead Jews and other people: THE GREY ZONE.

BillyTheKid_22
02-08-2007, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
The deaf, the insane, the handicapped gassed in a prelude to the Holacaust. The interesting thing is that what the NSDAP was doing got out, and there was an outcry by the Germans. The program had to be stopped. Thus, the Jewish extermination was conducted in Poland, which became a vast death factory, in secrecy. There is a good film about the Auschwitz revolt which resulted in the heroic destruction of one of the crematoria which was a blow at the camps ability to maintain "production" of dead Jews and other people: THE GREY ZONE.


I am deaf !! yes!! long time ago , My friend, deaf people and I did watch movie!! Bad Stuff Deaf All dead!! I am Sad and easy cry!!!! I am very Mad Nazi!!! My friend, Deaf people is very Mad!!!I know it!!!

Pirschjaeger
02-08-2007, 09:34 AM
What the nazis were doing and what has been written is just confusing.

Think about it, The nazi leadership campaigned the Aryan race. This race was 5'10 or taller, blond hair, blue eyes, very fit both physically and mentally. We can believe that this was what they were selling to the public. In another thread someone mentioned the guards in the US ConCamps were afraid of the German prisoners due to the "Aryan" propaganda.

But then we see the nazi leadership. They were anything but the mystical Aryans they preached about. In fact, the appearence of the highest levels of the nazi leadership were supportive of the "let's sterilize" side of the argument.

Before the trigger happy tarts jump in and start calling me "nazi", I'll point out that I am denying nothing.

There seems to be a lot of things that just simply don't make sense. The more I read the less clear the whole "nazi" thing becomes, but I guess that might be that I am comparing to today's reality.

Today, sterilization is universally considered wrong. But, it was considered humane before WW2 on both sides of the pond.

I'd like to think that it is we, the here and now, that have changed in positive ways. Maybe the changes are the reason I can't understand past peoples actions.

I too can easily kill another human but that would have to be the last resort and a defensive decision. I much rather take my own life than kill someone just for being different. That would be the positive effect of Hollywood. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Pirschjaeger
02-08-2007, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by BillyTheKid_22:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
The deaf, the insane, the handicapped gassed in a prelude to the Holacaust. The interesting thing is that what the NSDAP was doing got out, and there was an outcry by the Germans. The program had to be stopped. Thus, the Jewish extermination was conducted in Poland, which became a vast death factory, in secrecy. There is a good film about the Auschwitz revolt which resulted in the heroic destruction of one of the crematoria which was a blow at the camps ability to maintain "production" of dead Jews and other people: THE GREY ZONE.


I am deaf !! yes!! long time ago , My friend, deaf people and I did watch movie!! Bad Stuff Deaf All dead!! I am Sad and easy cry!!!! I am very Mad Nazi!!! My friend, Deaf people is very Mad!!!I know it!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well Billy, I'm not deaf but 100% with you on this. Not so different are we. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BillyTheKid_22
02-08-2007, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BillyTheKid_22:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
The deaf, the insane, the handicapped gassed in a prelude to the Holacaust. The interesting thing is that what the NSDAP was doing got out, and there was an outcry by the Germans. The program had to be stopped. Thus, the Jewish extermination was conducted in Poland, which became a vast death factory, in secrecy. There is a good film about the Auschwitz revolt which resulted in the heroic destruction of one of the crematoria which was a blow at the camps ability to maintain "production" of dead Jews and other people: THE GREY ZONE.


I am deaf !! yes!! long time ago , My friend, deaf people and I did watch movie!! Bad Stuff Deaf All dead!! I am Sad and easy cry!!!! I am very Mad Nazi!!! My friend, Deaf people is very Mad!!!I know it!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well Billy, I'm not deaf but 100% with you on this. Not so different are we. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I know!!!! not worry!! Deaf not fun!!!!! deaf is pi@@ off!!!

Pirschjaeger
02-08-2007, 10:01 AM
I have a BBC documentary and part of it shows a child who was deaf from birth. The doctors performed a special operation and implanted a device to correct the nerves and allow communication between his ear drum and brain. Before turning it on they let him heal from the surgical wounds.

This boy was about 5 or 6 years old and had never heard a sound. They video documented the moment they activated the device. he was sitting on the floor playing with toys. The instant the device was activated, the boy jumped a little as if he had been startled. He had a confused expression on his face for only a few seconds, then went back to playing with the toys. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

It's proceedures like these that bring the day you can hear closer. Depending on the reason for your deafness, I'm sure you will one day hear.

BillyTheKid_22
02-08-2007, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
I have a BBC documentary and part of it shows a child who was deaf from birth. The doctors performed a special operation and implanted a device to correct the nerves and allow communication between his ear drum and brain. Before turning it on they let him heal from the surgical wounds.

This boy was about 5 or 6 years old and had never heard a sound. They video documented the moment they activated the device. he was sitting on the floor playing with toys. The instant the device was activated, the boy jumped a little as if he had been startled. He had a confused expression on his face for only a few seconds, then went back to playing with the toys. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

It's proceedures like these that bring the day you can hear closer. Depending on the reason for your deafness, I'm sure you will one day hear.


good !!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif



http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/TECH/science/04/18/tonedeafness.study/story.headphones.gi.jpg



http://www.royaldeaf.org.uk/images/daonline/ear.jpg

JtD
02-08-2007, 11:58 AM
Disabled, handicapped or even ill people just didn't suit the concept of Arian superhumans.

This is a very, very dark chapter of history.

Warrington_Wolf
02-08-2007, 12:31 PM
Things like this are the reason why we must teach our children what happened during those dark years.
Nowadays most kids wouldn't know of the holocaust and I find that quite scary because if those atrocities are forgotten, they will surely be repeated (and has already been repeated in places like Rwanda).

Stackhouse25th
02-08-2007, 12:38 PM
more than likely a numner of them were killed when they didnt follow gestapo orders.

Xiolablu3
02-08-2007, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by Warrington_Wolf:
Things like this are the reason why we must teach our children what happened during those dark years.
Nowadays most kids wouldn't know of the holocaust and I find that quite scary because if those atrocities are forgotten, they will surely be repeated (and has already been repeated in places like Rwanda).

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

My little brother is partly deaf, and if some Nazi came to try and take him away I would die fighting them.

BUT, I dont think they actually took deaf or blind Germans to be killed, but they sterilised them so they could not have children. Sick b*stards.

Another ridiculous decision, because deaf guys and girls are perfectly capable of having full hearing children.

BillyTheKid_22
02-08-2007, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Warrington_Wolf:
Things like this are the reason why we must teach our children what happened during those dark years.
Nowadays most kids wouldn't know of the holocaust and I find that quite scary because if those atrocities are forgotten, they will surely be repeated (and has already been repeated in places like Rwanda).

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

My little brother is partly deaf, and if some Nazi came to try and take him away I would die fighting them.

BUT, I dont think they actually took deaf or blind Germans to be killed, but they sterilised them so they could not have children. Sick b*stards.

Another ridiculous decision, because deaf guys and girls are perfectly capable of having full hearing children. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Your little brother is partly deaf!!! you tell him. I say hello!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I am happy you!!

Hoatee
02-08-2007, 01:35 PM
What if Hitler was regarded as the scourge of national socialism in the way Stalin was regarded as the scourge of communism? The only real difference is that the one triumphed over the other in war.

Xiolablu3
02-08-2007, 04:05 PM
Thanks Billy, I will say hello from you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



Off Topic Ramblings :-


I have also thought that STalin and Hitler had loads in common, I never really understood why they are 'idealogically opposites'

I mean - I understand that in true communism everyone is equal, and in the Nazi system there is a strict hierachi, but as Socialism is linked very closely with COmmunism, this makes me confused?.

I have read that Socialism is necesary on the way towards communism...so why do we think of Hitler and Stalin as totally incompatible and opposites?

Probably enough for a 10 page essay in answering that question, but its always bugged me, and I have never actually taken the time to read up on the reasons http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Is Communism a world view (the whole world must be equal/communist and help their fellow man) whereas National Socialism is totally for the one country/race and 'pure people', and to hell with other countries/classes/races?

Sorry to go so off topic here, but if anyone could give a simple'ish' quick concise answer to what makes COmmunism and National Socialism opposites, then I would be very grateful http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BillyTheKid_22
02-08-2007, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Thanks Billy, I will say hello from you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



Off Topic Ramblings :-


I have also thought that STalin and Hitler had loads in common, I never really understood why they are 'idealogically opposites'

I mean - I understand that in true communism everyone is equal, and in the Nazi system there is a strict hierachi, but as Socialism is linked very closely with COmmunism, this makes me confused?.

I have read that Socialism is necesary on the way towards communism...so why do we think of Hitler and Stalin as totally incompatible and opposites?

Probably enough for a 10 page essay in answering that question, but its always bugged me, and I have never actually taken the time to read up on the reasons http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Is Communism a world view (the whole world must be equal/communist and help their fellow man) whereas National Socialism is totally for the one country/race and 'pure people', and to hell with other countries/classes/races?

Sorry to go so off topic here, but if anyone could give a simple'ish' quick concise answer to what makes COmmunism and National Socialism opposites, then I would be very grateful http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I know!! No plm !! cool!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif All right!!!

Xiolablu3
02-08-2007, 04:20 PM
Sorry Billy, that 'rambling' wasnt to you, it was just my thoughts about Communism and Nazis. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

What servers do you fly on?

BillyTheKid_22
02-08-2007, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Sorry Billy, that 'rambling' wasnt to you, it was just my thoughts about Communism and Nazis. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

What servers do you fly on?



I will fix v4.08!!! not worry!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Pirschjaeger
02-10-2007, 05:32 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
but if anyone could give a simple'ish' quick concise answer to what makes COmmunism and National Socialism opposites, then I would be very grateful http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

One was an ally, one wasn't. That's why they are categorically seperated.

RCAF_Irish_403
02-10-2007, 07:27 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Thanks Billy, I will say hello from you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



Off Topic Ramblings :-


I have also thought that STalin and Hitler had loads in common, I never really understood why they are 'idealogically opposites'

I mean - I understand that in true communism everyone is equal, and in the Nazi system there is a strict hierachi, but as Socialism is linked very closely with COmmunism, this makes me confused?.

I have read that Socialism is necesary on the way towards communism...so why do we think of Hitler and Stalin as totally incompatible and opposites?

Probably enough for a 10 page essay in answering that question, but its always bugged me, and I have never actually taken the time to read up on the reasons http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Is Communism a world view (the whole world must be equal/communist and help their fellow man) whereas National Socialism is totally for the one country/race and 'pure people', and to hell with other countries/classes/races?

Sorry to go so off topic here, but if anyone could give a simple'ish' quick concise answer to what makes COmmunism and National Socialism opposites, then I would be very grateful http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The political spectrum isn't strictly linear
like this

Communism<---------------------->Fascism

Instead think of it like this:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/jds1978/300px-Political_chart.jpg

From Wiki:
The underlying principle of the Political Compass is that political views may be better measured along two separate and independent axes. The Economic (Left-Right) axis measures one's opinion of how the economy should be run: "The Left" is defined as the view that the economy should be run by a cooperative collective agency (which can mean the state, but can also mean a network of communes), while "the Right" is defined as the view that the economy should be left to the devices of competing individuals and organisations. The other axis (Authoritarian-Libertarian) measures one's political opinions in a "Social" sense, regarding a view of the appropriate amount of "personal freedom": "Libertarianism" is defined as the belief that personal freedom should be maximised, while "Authoritarianism" is defined as the belief that authority and tradition should be obeyed.

The labels given to the different fields and axes on the compass are based on the long-standing European and Commonwealth terminology. Some of those labels are used differently in the politics of the United States, which may confuse some American visitors to the website, although most of these terms are explained as they are used. This issue is discussed in the Political Compass FAQ.



Political scientists ditched the old system in response to the similarities between Stalinist thought and the Hitler Regime

DuxCorvan
02-10-2007, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Today, sterilization is universally considered wrong. But, it was considered humane before WW2 on both sides of the pond.

Not only *before* WW2... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization

As for the tragedy of being a master in the art of sound and becoming deaf:

Beethoven's Heiligenstadt Will (http://www.geocities.com/piers_clement/will.html)

http://www.raptusassociation.org/will.gif

Even so, he later managed to compose his finest works while completely deaf. A remarkable example of effort, strong spirit... and abstract thinking skills. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Beethoven in his early 30s, around the time he wrote his sad will:

http://www.all-about-beethoven.com/poze/bet3.jpg

And this is him around 20 years later, when he wrote his 9th Symphony, his Missa Solemnis and his incredible last string quartets:

http://www.orkestkidsite.nl/dbv2/userimages/browse/images/beethoven.jpg

And another deaf genius, Spanish painter Francisco de Goya y Lucientes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Goya).
http://artroots.com/art2/goya.jpg

Xiolablu3
02-10-2007, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by RCAF_Irish_403:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Thanks Billy, I will say hello from you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



Off Topic Ramblings :-


I have also thought that STalin and Hitler had loads in common, I never really understood why they are 'idealogically opposites'

I mean - I understand that in true communism everyone is equal, and in the Nazi system there is a strict hierachi, but as Socialism is linked very closely with COmmunism, this makes me confused?.

I have read that Socialism is necesary on the way towards communism...so why do we think of Hitler and Stalin as totally incompatible and opposites?

Probably enough for a 10 page essay in answering that question, but its always bugged me, and I have never actually taken the time to read up on the reasons http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Is Communism a world view (the whole world must be equal/communist and help their fellow man) whereas National Socialism is totally for the one country/race and 'pure people', and to hell with other countries/classes/races?

Sorry to go so off topic here, but if anyone could give a simple'ish' quick concise answer to what makes COmmunism and National Socialism opposites, then I would be very grateful http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The political spectrum isn't strictly linear
like this

Communism<---------------------->Fascism

Instead think of it like this:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/jds1978/300px-Political_chart.jpg

From Wiki:
The underlying principle of the Political Compass is that political views may be better measured along two separate and independent axes. The Economic (Left-Right) axis measures one's opinion of how the economy should be run: "The Left" is defined as the view that the economy should be run by a cooperative collective agency (which can mean the state, but can also mean a network of communes), while "the Right" is defined as the view that the economy should be left to the devices of competing individuals and organisations. The other axis (Authoritarian-Libertarian) measures one's political opinions in a "Social" sense, regarding a view of the appropriate amount of "personal freedom": "Libertarianism" is defined as the belief that personal freedom should be maximised, while "Authoritarianism" is defined as the belief that authority and tradition should be obeyed.

The labels given to the different fields and axes on the compass are based on the long-standing European and Commonwealth terminology. Some of those labels are used differently in the politics of the United States, which may confuse some American visitors to the website, although most of these terms are explained as they are used. This issue is discussed in the Political Compass FAQ.



Political scientists ditched the old system in response to the similarities between Stalinist thought and the Hitler Regime </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Thanks for that Irish!

I have never een those 4 put togther on a box like that before, it makes much more sense now.

BUT, to really answer my question, you would have to tell me where Stalinist Russia and Hitlers Germany would be pinpointed on the box?

Could you do that?

I am thinking Stalinist Russia is Authoritairian Left, and Hitlers Germany is Authoritairian Right, yes?

Therefore Hitler left the country to compete as in a modern democracy, whereas Stalin took everything for the state, then shared it out 'equally' (some animals are more equal than others)?


I must say, its never as simple as one system nowdays. In Britain we have the National Health Service, which is basically a communist style idea, free health care for all, paid for by the state. But we live in a Modern Liberal Democracy here is Britian.

I dont htink you can ever say that one system is bad/wrong anymore. Take the good parts from each.

RCAF_Irish_403
02-10-2007, 08:31 AM
Xiola: No Problem

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/jds1978/axeswithnames.gif

from:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/index


The usual understanding of anarchism as a left wing ideology does not take into account the neo-liberal "anarchism" championed by the likes of Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman and America's Libertarian Party, which couples law of the jungle right-wing economics with liberal positions on most social issues. Often their libertarian impulses stop short of opposition to strong law and order positions, and are more economic in substance (ie no taxes) so they are not as extremely libertarian as they are extremely right wing. On the other hand, the classical libertarian collectivism of anarcho-syndicalism ( libertarian socialism) belongs in the bottom left hand corner.
In our home page we demolished the myth that authoritarianism is necessarily "right wing", with the examples of Robert Mugabe, Pol Pot and Stalin. Similarly Hitler, on an economic scale, was not an extreme right-winger. His economic policies were broadly Keynesian, and to the left of some of today's Labour parties. If you could get Hitler and Stalin to sit down together and avoid economics, the two diehard authoritarians would find plenty of common ground.

A Word about Neo-cons and Neo-libs

U.S.neo-conservatives, with their commitment to high military spending and the global assertion of national values, tend to be more authoritarian than hard right. By contrast, neo-liberals, opposed to such moral leadership and, more especially, the ensuing demands on the tax payer, belong to a further right but less authoritarian region. Paradoxically, the "free market", in neo-con parlance, also allows for the large-scale subsidy of the military-industrial complex, a considerable degree of corporate welfare, and protectionism when deemed in the national interest. These are viewed by neo-libs as impediments to the unfettered market forces that they champion.

Xiolablu3
02-10-2007, 08:46 AM
Thanks Irish http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Interesting stuff. I would have instantly put Hitler at the Far Right, but of course that would be wrong because he needed the taxes/state to fund his Military and community programs. There were many state sponsered groups in Nazi Germany, in fact most other groups were abolished.


BTW: Was thinking of flying in half an hour, are you up for it?

MEGILE
02-10-2007, 09:08 AM
hmm I took the political compass test..

was pretty much smack bang in the middle

Perfect for me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AKA_TAGERT
02-10-2007, 09:15 AM
word

RCAF_Irish_403
02-10-2007, 12:14 PM
Billy, BTW: I'm 70% deaf in my left ear http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BillyTheKid_22
02-10-2007, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by RCAF_Irish_403:
Billy, BTW: I'm 70% deaf in my left ear http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Howdy!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif What happened your deaf? pls tell me!!!

Waldo.Pepper
02-10-2007, 04:03 PM
It is likely that I too would have been culled from the herd due to this.

RCAF_Irish_403
02-10-2007, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by BillyTheKid_22:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RCAF_Irish_403:
Billy, BTW: I'm 70% deaf in my left ear http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Howdy!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif What happened your deaf? pls tell me!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Occupation related....I'm a musician. I now take better care of my hearing.
The problem is that earplugs tend to make me dizzy and sick to my stomache. In addition i have a hard time hearing musical nuances with standard plugs. I've since learned to enjoy (and play) quiet music with quiet musicians.

MEGILE
02-10-2007, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by RCAF_Irish_403:


Occupation related....I'm a musician. I now take better care of my hearing.
The problem is that earplugs tend to make me dizzy and sick to my stomache. In addition i have a hard time hearing musical nuances with standard plugs. I've since learned to enjoy (and play) quiet music with quiet musicians.

interesting on the sickness... I get very car sick, but ear plugs don't upset me.

I play the drums, but interestingly I HATE loud music.... i hate going to bed after my ears have just been raped and lying awake with that awful buzzzzzing.

I wear special ear plugs when playing, they reduce sound level (25db if I remmeber correctly), but impact quality very little... infact I would thoroughly recommend them for live music, concerts etc. They cut alot of the harsh high frequencies, and the music becomes clearer.

BUT, imagine my reaction, when I walked into the hall to watch TOOL play, felt in my pocket... no ear plugs. I was absolutly gutted.

I feel lucky having my hearing intact, and so I try to preserve it aswell as I can.

BillyTheKid_22
02-10-2007, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by RCAF_Irish_403:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BillyTheKid_22:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RCAF_Irish_403:
Billy, BTW: I'm 70% deaf in my left ear http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Howdy!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif What happened your deaf? pls tell me!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Occupation related....I'm a musician. I now take better care of my hearing.
The problem is that earplugs tend to make me dizzy and sick to my stomache. In addition i have a hard time hearing musical nuances with standard plugs. I've since learned to enjoy (and play) quiet music with quiet musicians. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif You cre Cool MUSICAN!!! I born in Hobbs, New Mexico Deaf, Sick and Chicken Pox, fever!!! I am ok !!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Long time ago, I was kid The National Theatre of the Deaf at Michigan 2 years. My Family ex-lived in Trav. City, Michigan 7 1/2 years. My family moved in Okla. City, Okla, 1978. I am Oklahoma 30 years!! Lot of fun!!!! I love The National Theatre of the Deaf!! COOL!!



http://www.variety.com/graphics/photos/reviewb/rbig_river3.jpg

RCAF_Irish_403
02-11-2007, 05:23 AM
Originally posted by BillyTheKid_22:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RCAF_Irish_403:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BillyTheKid_22:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RCAF_Irish_403:
Billy, BTW: I'm 70% deaf in my left ear http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Howdy!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif What happened your deaf? pls tell me!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Occupation related....I'm a musician. I now take better care of my hearing.
The problem is that earplugs tend to make me dizzy and sick to my stomache. In addition i have a hard time hearing musical nuances with standard plugs. I've since learned to enjoy (and play) quiet music with quiet musicians. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif You cre Cool MUSICAN!!! I born in Hobbs, New Mexico Deaf, Sick and Chicken Pox, fever!!! I am ok !!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Long time ago, I was kid The National Theatre of the Deaf at Michigan 2 years. My Family ex-lived in Trav. City, Michigan 7 1/2 years. My family moved in Okla. City, Okla, 1978. I am Oklahoma 30 years!! Lot of fun!!!! I love The National Theatre of the Deaf!! COOL!!



http://www.variety.com/graphics/photos/reviewb/rbig_river3.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My family used to vacation in Traverse City http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

ViktorViktor
02-11-2007, 10:06 AM
Hey, that Political Compass was interesting. Can anyone tell me where Jesus Christ and Mohammed would have ended up on this diagram ?

BillyTheKid_22
02-11-2007, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by RCAF_Irish_403:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BillyTheKid_22:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RCAF_Irish_403:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BillyTheKid_22:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RCAF_Irish_403:
Billy, BTW: I'm 70% deaf in my left ear http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Howdy!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif What happened your deaf? pls tell me!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Occupation related....I'm a musician. I now take better care of my hearing.
The problem is that earplugs tend to make me dizzy and sick to my stomache. In addition i have a hard time hearing musical nuances with standard plugs. I've since learned to enjoy (and play) quiet music with quiet musicians. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif You cre Cool MUSICAN!!! I born in Hobbs, New Mexico Deaf, Sick and Chicken Pox, fever!!! I am ok !!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Long time ago, I was kid The National Theatre of the Deaf at Michigan 2 years. My Family ex-lived in Trav. City, Michigan 7 1/2 years. My family moved in Okla. City, Okla, 1978. I am Oklahoma 30 years!! Lot of fun!!!! I love The National Theatre of the Deaf!! COOL!!



http://www.variety.com/graphics/photos/reviewb/rbig_river3.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My family used to vacation in Traverse City http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Traverse City is very nice!! LoL!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



http://www.photography-plus.com/images/TVC/TraverseBay062003_5.jpg

GerritJ9
02-11-2007, 01:28 PM
Adolf got some of his ideas on control from the top from Stalin, so ideologically they are less far apart than one would think- see Alan Bullock's "Hitler and Stalin: Parallel Lives" (ISBN of my hardback copy is 0-00-215494-3). Solzhenytzin refers to Stalin as "Big Moustache" and Adolf as "Little Moustache" and basically that is all the difference there was. Yet Stalin's evil is largely ignored/forgotten, but we are constantly (and rightly so) reminded of Adolf's.