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View Full Version : Rudder Pedals, CH support



sunflower1
01-07-2009, 04:45 PM
Talked with tech support at CH today, explained that the tracks in a couple sets of pedals I've got are pretty rough and how I sure could use some smoother action. Asked nicely if I could send them in and have them do it.

Answer:

Oh, that's 50 bucks right off the bat just to put on a new base and you'd need new wheels, that's another 50, its just not worth your money.

I say, "so I just toss these two sets?"

"Well they're not made to be used where dirt can get into them, they're not designed for that."

I kid you not. He said that.

I don't know about you guys, but my sxxt stinks, my house gets dusty and my cat sheds some fur. You too may experience these things.

I went 'round with these guys about this a year or so ago and their marketing director accidentally spilled the beans about why they don't make new bases available- people are using them to make their own DIY pedals.

I realize CH makes some good stuff and I WAS looking forward to some of their sticks but having them tell me twice in a row that I'm filthy and can't take care of my equipment is more than I can handle when I'm giving money. These guys are just daring me to be somebody else's customer over some injection molded nylon.

What's the next best choice in terms of pedals? Comments?

Viper2005_
01-07-2009, 05:02 PM
Simpeds.

FoolTrottel
01-07-2009, 05:10 PM
(..)people are using them to make their own DIY pedals.


What's the next best choice in terms of pedals? Comments?

Next best? You can do better: Build 'm yerself! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Can be done... lots of examples around.

(Mine have evolved from a WWI like single rotating bar, to shifting pedals, with brakes, and a HAL sensor on the Rudder's axis....)

Oh, and Simpeds would probably do fine too, maybe even better...

Stingray333
01-07-2009, 06:29 PM
Can be done... lots of examples around.

(Mine have evolved from a WWI like single rotating bar, to shifting pedals, with brakes, and a HAL sensor on the Rudder's axis....)

Oh, and Simpeds would probably do fine

I figured that this would happen to my Saitek Pedals, but I try to make a point of wearing clean slippers that I wear in the house that don't have a "tread" on the bottom that can pickup dirt and such, and then try to vacuum out under my desk now and again, and vacuum the pedals every now and then. 6 months with rudder pedals, no problems and no change in the action (saitek pedals btw).

Stingray

sunflower1
01-07-2009, 06:29 PM
Yeah, all that's wrong is the plastic- all the value added parts work fine. I guess I just need to go easy on the last set while I choose a DIY that's best for me. As we say here at Sunflower Engineering, "When you're out of tape, you're out of luck."

I know a custom bike frame maker....howabout a Dura Ace bottom bracket as a pivot? Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket.

The "problem" with the CH design is that the dust shield is really just a platform for garbage to collect on before a violent yaw sends it into the tray below. After the first set got rough in 6 months I became very careful about keeping them clean. This design just isn't as good as their others. A year of hard HyperLobby use with forced air ventilation is probably about what you can expect unless you live in a clean room (as in a wafer fab plant's labs: white coats, masks, you know). I really think forced air ventilation and this product is a bad combination. The worst combination is this product and its producer's support of it.

wheelsup_cavu
01-07-2009, 07:12 PM
Glad I read this thread.
Thinking about getting rudder pedals and will check out Simped and Saitek now.

Wheelsup

WTE_Galway
01-07-2009, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by sunflower1:
Yeah, all that's wrong is the plastic- all the value added parts work fine. I guess I just need to go easy on the last set while I choose a DIY that's best for me. As we say here at Sunflower Engineering, "When you're out of tape, you're out of luck."

I know a custom bike frame maker....howabout a Dura Ace bottom bracket as a pivot? Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket.

The "problem" with the CH design is that the dust shield is really just a platform for garbage to collect on before a violent yaw sends it into the tray below. After the first set got rough in 6 months I became very careful about keeping them clean. This design just isn't as good as their others. A year of hard HyperLobby use with forced air ventilation is probably about what you can expect unless you live in a clean room. I really think forced air ventilation and this product is a bad combination. The worst combination is this product and its producer's support of it.

Well personally I haven't ever had a dirt problem and I use mine in a car shed.

I have however had to disassemble them at least twice to solder up a small wire leading to the brake axis that snaps on a regular basis.

Overall though I still think they are ok value for the money.

sunflower1
01-07-2009, 08:48 PM
It may well be that your car shed doesn't have forced air heating!

I'm in the process of wearing out the third set in as many years and I've been taking them apart and cleaning them regularly since the first set. YMMV. Wheelsup- I'm not trying to dis the product, only the support. I didn't buy three sets because they're sucky pedals, I use them as a primary flight control and no shot is complete without just a touch of rudder to get the line-up just riiiiight. When these are working right, they're great.

If they'd just sell me a hunk of plastic for $25 I'd go away quietly, that's what's so ridiculous about this. I wore out the base, big deal. Apparently it is. I have the ingenuity to fix this but I have a 4 year old and I'd rather just write a check and go fly now that it appears I might have some free time again.

This is a pic I took 2 1/2 years ago and posted on the K9 forum showing people what it looks like inside and telling them to clean their pedals at the slightest hint of debris.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/SunflowerX/VidCardfanandshroud010.jpg

In this pic you can see the discoloration in the tracks.

jensenpark
01-07-2009, 09:02 PM
Thanks for the timely reminder SF...

Project for this weekend.

sunflower1
01-07-2009, 09:05 PM
XOXO

Say hi to Mark Steyn if ya see him. Tell him I want to have his children.

TX-EcoDragon
01-07-2009, 09:26 PM
My CH pedals have needed to be rebuilt 4 times now in about 5 years. The wiring is iffy, and the toe brakes will certainly fail as a result of the wiring - nothing some soldering and new wire wont fix. They do seem to collect junk rather quickly.

I was about to trash mine a few weeks ago, but did one more rebuild, and brought them back to life. I used a dremel with a soft wire bit to clean the impacted dust off the black rollers Ė the tracks in the base seem fine on mine, but they do sort of get hung up on something, and wonít re-center without me helping them along.

If I had it to do over, I would have just made my own, or picked up some PFC Cirrus pedals.

The CH pedals work, but the feel is springy, clunky and terrible, the design is nothing like aircraft rudder pedals they are about half as wide as Iíd like, and the pedals are not near vertical enough to emulate the real thing. . .you would be able to make a better set on your own, and design them in such as a way as to be serviceable without them trying to fall into a dozen parts like the CH pedals do if you fully disassemble them.

I use PFC Cirrus on the pilot training sims (PCATDs) that are the next step up, a good bit more cash, but much better quality and a realistic and precise feel. . .though still too narrow to be an accurate example of a WWII tailwheel aircraft.

I have heard the Saiteks don't hold up as well, despite being the closest in design to the real thing of most affordable PC pedals.

The bottom line for me, and the same goes for joysticks: make your own.

sunflower1
01-07-2009, 09:30 PM
Pay attention boys, eco dragon knows what he's talking about. When I say, "they're great" I mean as an HID that can accurately control the yaw axis of a game. After that, not so much.

ElAurens
01-07-2009, 09:48 PM
I've had my CH pedals for years, no problem other than a bad "toe brake", which in IL2 is semi-useless anyway.

The Cirrus pedals look good, but for the price they had better be.

sunflower1
01-07-2009, 10:04 PM
EL, that what's so frustrating, clearly some users are running into a problem with it and some aren't. I would just like a reasonable amount of goodwill in terms of support.

Compare to what Klipsch will do for you when you learn that forgetting to put the little rubber feet on their THX 2.1 desktop speakers allows them to push themselves right off your desk at high volume, thus breaking a cone....

"That'll be $6.50 plus shipping."

Stingray333
01-07-2009, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by sunflower1:
I know a custom bike frame maker....howabout a Dura Ace bottom bracket as a pivot? Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket.


Ha! A Dura-ace bottom bracket pivot would brake faster than the CH! Everyone knows that real simmers use campagnolo parts for their mods http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WTE_Galway
01-07-2009, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by TX-EcoDragon:

The CH pedals work, but the feel is springy, clunky and terrible, the design is nothing like aircraft rudder pedals they are about half as wide as Iíd like, and the pedals are not near vertical enough to emulate the real thing.



The "too flat" aspect can be fixed by lifting the rear of the pedals about 15cm with a wedge shaped wooden block under the base.

Chris0382
01-08-2009, 07:17 AM
I find the manufacturing and molding is becoming less quality at CH product. My old Flightstick Pro lasted 10 yrs. My new Combatstick was defective day 1. I returned it to Provantage and the replacement was also defective. So I bit the bullet and spent $30 shipping to get that fixed under warrantee. It came back no different and was wobbly still (bad molding tolerances)and loose wheels. I used a shim that helped the issue.

Recently a button went practically dead and could not get a replacement tactile switch and was told the tactile switches are individually custom made from components supplied to CH Products (I donít believe that as I see them in catalogs but need the proper dimensions so I didnít buy one). They will replace the switch for $50 with shipping. I decided to get the old Flightstick Pro I had and use one to replace the switch and add 4 buttons and a CB from another FS-Pro. All is working well for now.

I like the programming support from Bob C but thatís about it at this time. I used the original FS-Pro bought with X-Wing back in the 80ís and have been loyal.

I mean I spent $30 off the bat and now they wanted me to spend another $50 for an Item that costs $70-80.

I have lost a bit of that loyalty now.

sunflower1
01-08-2009, 07:49 AM
Yeah, not feeling teh luv. I guess what I'd like everyone here to know is that calling them was just a bad experience. They are the worst adult customer experience I've ever had- I haven't felt like I've felt talking to them since getting ripped off by a carney when I was 10. "We're just gonna 'eff ya and there's not a ******* thing you can do about it, now do you have anything better to do than call me, why don't you order that 4th set?"

Stingray- I want my pedals smooth the first day, everyone knows that campy stuff isn't at its best until its had some use. I need instant gratification, dontcha know? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks for the look at the PFC's Eco Dragon. I think that for 6 bills I can go to any one of the local small manufacturers and have them build me exactly what I want, using the CH guts I've got. 6 bills will almost buy a steel frameset from that guy I mentioned!

WWII rudder pedals generally hung from their pivots, no? I live where you can't swing a cat without hitting guys that have been cutting and welding since they were walking so I'm thinking big.

To make an attempt at salvaging these bases I will use a router to slightly widen and deepen the track and put a U channel of the best material, probably a metal, I can find that's close in size, probably use some hobby grade medium vis CA to affix it. This injection molded nylon needs its smooth molding surface as a bearing surface, once it's compromised the spalling begins and its all over. Time to hit the best hardware store in the region and wander around a bit. That place seldom lets me down.

Waldo.Pepper
01-08-2009, 05:09 PM
I feel for you all. I have old (GAMEPORT) ch pedals, that are filthy. If I were to pass a vacuum cleaner over them, which I can't remember the last time I did, the vacuum cleaner would make all kinds of clinking sounds, like when you pick up a screw or a penny or something like that. To this day they have not failed me or given me trouble.

x6BL_Brando
01-08-2009, 06:02 PM
I'm sorry to hear that more recent models may be of lesser quality. My pedals have done 6 years now without any more glitch than the toe-brake cable snapping a couple of times. The last time it went I sleeved the existing cable and no problem now for a couple of years, touch wood.

I should add that I have carpet, cats and smoke a lot too. And I vacuum as infrequently as I can get away with it, much to my wife's disgust http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif But, hey, this is MY room - and I don't try to tell her how to cook when she's in the kitchen! (I'm dead if she reads that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif )
Truth is, I don't want to have to move my pit set-up just so that I can vacuum around it.

One reason, perhaps, why I've had so little problem is because my pedals are secured to an inclined plate. Any cr@p that gets into the pedal base will fall towards the bottom I guess.

As far as as switches are concerned there has been a change in the industry regulations regarding health and safety. Up until a couple of years ago it was possible to buy most of the switches for CH products (very cheaply). Unfortunately they are now unable to sell anything that requires soldering. That one is down to litigation lawyers, not a lack of co-operation from CH.

B

mortoma
01-08-2009, 07:50 PM
I don't get this. I allow my CH Pro Pedals ( 5 years old ) to get super dusty and they have not skipped a beat yet. Nor are they even spiking much. Much less than my Joystick pots spike.
I don't think dust has even hurt my CH pedals.

They are the same as any CH pedals except mine are analog gameport. Which are really the same as USB except that the analog to digital conversion in not done with a circuit board in the pedals. The conversion is done in my old Audigy sound card instead.