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View Full Version : I guess the Luftlovers are not going to like the corsair 1C



Osirisx9
10-29-2004, 08:44 AM
Now my new ride is going to be the B-25 but all you late model 109 drivers are going to have a handful against the corsair http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

RAF238thOsiris

JG52Uther
10-29-2004, 08:55 AM
Did the Corsair fly on the Western/Eastern front?If not then my 109 will not have a problem with it.If it did fly then it will just be another target.We have got used to overmodelled Allied planes now and expect nothing less.

berg417448
10-29-2004, 08:57 AM
Yes. The FAA flew the Corsair in the west. IIRC it was used in raids on the Tirpitz.

KGr.HH-Sunburst
10-29-2004, 09:01 AM
we are used to fighting against superior aircraft since day one(La7 La5FN Yak3/9U P51s Spitfires etc)
so whats a ugly ducky corsie gonna change?
btw the Dora eats the Corsair for lunch ,although the F4U-1C should be banned because of the wing fold cheat IMO

BuzzU
10-29-2004, 09:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KGr.HH-Sunburst:
we are used to fighting against superior aircraft since day one(La7 La5FN Yak3/9U P51s Spitfires etc)
so whats a ugly ducky corsie gonna change?
btw the Dora eats the Corsair for lunch ,although the F4U-1C should be banned because of the wing fold cheat IMO <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You ban the people using the cheat. Not the plane. Honest people don't use it.

LuftLuver
10-29-2004, 10:22 AM
Yes, luftlover luvs the Corsair 1C.

Finally a US plane with fangs.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

carguy_
10-29-2004, 10:34 AM
Well you seriously can`t think that Luftwaffe pilots that will fight for the emperor are gonna enter high speed fights with it,can you?

TAGERT.
10-29-2004, 10:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Did the Corsair fly on the Western/Eastern front? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>As a mater of fact it did.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG52Uther:
If not then my 109 will not have a problem with it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So I guess your 109 will have a problem

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG52Uther:
If it did fly then it will just be another target. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes polish up on your vultching.. cuz that is the only way it will be! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG52Uther:
We have got used to overmodelled Allied planes now and expect nothing less. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Got Track? Didnt think so.

VFA-195 Snacky
10-29-2004, 10:44 AM
You kids are funny.lol

269GA-Maxmars
10-29-2004, 10:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VFA-195 Snacky:
You kids are funny.lol <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, they're not. We have had more than enough over-uber-under-modelled threads.

Jaws2002
10-29-2004, 10:58 AM
Whoot http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif that ugly funy looking pig?? Try a dora against it just for fun. In the D9 you can stay on top like the king.

crazyivan1970
10-29-2004, 11:20 AM
Tried QMB in G6/AS against 4 aces of those 1C`s ... took me only 15 min, La7 is by far worse http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LilHorse
10-29-2004, 11:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by berg417448:
Yes. The FAA flew the Corsair in the west. IIRC it was used in raids on the Tirpitz. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, but since the Kriegsmarine didn't have much of a carrier force to speak of, such a match up would not be historical and so I'd have Zero interest (get it? "Zero"! hee-hee, ha-ha, blah!) in such a set up. This then becomes one of those "what if" BS things.

A better use of PF would be to match up Grumman F4Fs against Curtiss H-75s a la Operation Torch. Ahhh, yes! Much better.

Atomic_Marten
10-29-2004, 11:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Osirisx9:
"I guess the Luftlovers are not going to like the corsair 1C"

Now my new ride is going to be the B-25 but all you late model 109 drivers are going to have a handful against the corsair http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

RAF238thOsiris <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why are you guessing that?

Kurfurst__
10-29-2004, 11:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Osirisx9:
Now my new ride is going to be the B-25 but all you late model 109 drivers are going to have a handful against the corsair http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

RAF238thOsiris <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm, I guess under late 109s you mean the 1944-45 types... G-14, G-10, K-4, G-6/AS. I really don`t get why I should s*t my pants because of the Corsair.

Is it faster? Nah, about as fast as the G-14, slower than all the rest, esp. at altitude.
Does it turn better? Does it roll better? Not really.
Does it climb better..? OK, forget the question. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Handling... WHAT handling?!
Cocpit view? Nah.
Is it more rugged? In view of the MK 108, does the term 'rugged' have any meaning at all?

But hey, it HAS teeth! Oh my, oh my, I guess I should flying front of it. It has as much firepower as any of our planes. Yup, I am scared.

WUAF_Badsight
10-29-2004, 11:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuftLuver:
Finally a US plane with fangs. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol

finally eh ?

Daiichidoku
10-29-2004, 11:59 AM
The Beaufighter can take the Corsair with ease

JG52Uther
10-29-2004, 12:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
The Beaufighter can take the Corsair with ease <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Last i heard they were on the same side http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

TheJoyStick
10-29-2004, 12:30 PM
I DFed several cosairs, and f4s in a 109 G6/AS and had no problem putting the smack down.

I was a bit dissapointed, honestly.

Daiichidoku
10-29-2004, 12:36 PM
[/QUOTE] Last i heard they were on the same side http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/QUOTE]


So?

what's your point?

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
10-29-2004, 01:37 PM
I think his point is that they were on the same side so they would not under any normal circumstance be fighting against each other.

But as the thread seems to imply an online theater and so is purely speculative IMHO then its kinda a pointless argument realy.

Historicaly I myself don't know of any instance where luft aircraft actualy flew against the corsair? Unless it was when the British / Colonials flew em and that would be fairly late in the conflict?

Would be more interesting if anyone could post an example of an instance where any luft aircraft and corsairs actually did go up against each other?

Any takers?

Monty_Thrud
10-29-2004, 01:53 PM
The Corsair is shu-weet http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif, i'll have one of these in my warbird collection,it'll go well with the others, when i win the lottery...might be this weekend http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

F0_Dark_P
10-29-2004, 02:13 PM
guys you must remember, it is not the airplane that kills people, it is the pilot that kills peoplehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
10-29-2004, 02:24 PM
aye but the bullits help some though no?

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LilHorse
10-29-2004, 02:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS:
I think his point is that they were on the same side so they would not under any normal circumstance be fighting against each other.

But as the thread seems to imply an online theater and so is purely speculative IMHO then its kinda a pointless argument realy.

Historicaly I myself don't know of any instance where luft aircraft actualy flew against the corsair? Unless it was when the British / Colonials flew em and that would be fairly late in the conflict?

Would be more interesting if anyone could post an example of an instance where any luft aircraft and corsairs actually did go up against each other?

Any takers? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Though I haven't made the effort to find documentation on it (I'm 99.999% certain I don't have to) I don't think there ever was an encounter between Corsairs and any LW a/c.

WUAF_Badsight
10-29-2004, 03:25 PM
the Corsair with its lack of turning ability but good climb & zoom ability (both of which it should have) should suit Luft flyers especially

LStarosta
10-29-2004, 04:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
the Corsair with its lack of turning ability but good climb & zoom ability (both of which it should have) should suit Luft flyers especially <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What do you mean by lack of turning ability?

Maybe I'm just used to flying P47's and Fw's, and not Spitfires...


Or maybe it was just the speedbar, or the hud... hmm.. maybe the icons...

VMF-214_HaVoK
10-29-2004, 05:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Did the Corsair fly on the Western/Eastern front?If not then my 109 will not have a problem with it.If it did fly then it will just be another target.We have got used to overmodelled Allied planes now and expect nothing less. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your serious arnt you? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
10-29-2004, 05:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
the Corsair with its lack of turning ability but good climb & zoom ability (both of which it should have) should suit Luft flyers especially <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lets not leave out the fact that it blacksout longer then a Mustang or 190.

TAGERT.
10-29-2004, 05:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
the Corsair with its lack of turning ability but good climb & zoom ability (both of which it should have) should suit Luft flyers especially <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lets not leave out the fact that it blacksout longer then a Mustang or 190. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Only because it turns better than both.. Thus more g's thus more black outs! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Charos
10-29-2004, 05:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Osirisx9:
Now my new ride is going to be the B-25 but all you late model 109 drivers are going to have a handful against the corsair http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

RAF238thOsiris <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is true - Left hand holding the Phone ordering lunch while the Right is jesturing the Stick and squeezing the Trigger.

The Pilot's ability along with the circumstances leading up to the Current combat has 90% Bearing on the fights outcome and 10% on the plane YOU happen to be strapped into.

It is not the Plane to be feared its the enemy Pilot his tactics and training which require respect.
Without these the bent winged bird will end up more bent than bird and your ego along with it.

WUAF_Badsight
10-29-2004, 05:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
Your serious arnt you? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
*cough* La-7 P-51 P-39 P-63 LaGG's *cough*

Marek_Steele
10-29-2004, 07:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
Is it more rugged? In view of the MK 108, does the term 'rugged' have any meaning at all?
scared. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Last time online it only took one 30mm to rip one's tail off. I guess he didn't see me because of his awfull rear view http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif.
But on the other hand, you can land a k4 on a A/C http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Bearcat99
10-30-2004, 12:06 AM
More the pilot than the plane. Kiewo used to regularly spank people good in the 1.0 Jug. It is more the pilot than the plane.

woofiedog
10-30-2004, 01:28 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gifA little info on the Corsair's British Service.

[5] CORSAIR IN BRITISH & NEW ZEALAND SERVICE
* The British Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm (FAA) warmed to the Corsair much faster than the US Navy. In November 1943, the FAA received under Lend-Lease the first of 95 Vought F4U-1s, which were given the designation of "Corsair I". The first squadrons were assembled and trained in the US, either at Brunswick, Maine, or Quonset, Rhode Island, and then shipped across the Atlantic. The Royal Navy put the Corsair into carrier operations immediately, well ahead of the US Navy, but wasn't like the British worked miracles with the F4U: they found its landing characteristics just as beastly, suffering a number of fatal crashes, but bit the bullet and did it anyway.

This initial British batch was followed by 510 Vought F4U-1As under the designation of "Corsair II"; 430 Brewster F3A-1Ds under the designation of "Corsair III"; and finally 977 Goodyear FG-1Ds under the designation of "Corsair IV". It is unclear if the stateside squadron training scheme was retained for all British Corsair squadrons.



All but initial deliveries of FAA Corsairs had 20 centimeters (8 inches) clipped from the wingtips to permit storage in British carrier hangar decks, with the clipped wings also apparently improving the roll rate. Some sources suggest that at least some of the clipped-wing Corsairs supplied to Britain had the US designation of "F4U-1B". Many FAA Corsairs were fitted with rails for launching British unguided "Rocket Projectiles (RPs)". At its peak, the Corsair equipped 19 FAA squadrons.

CORSAIR IN FAA SERVICE SUMMARY:
________________________________________

variant number comments
________________________________________

Corsair I 95 Vought F4U-1s.
Corsair II 510 Vought F4U-1As.
Corsair III 430 Brewster F3A-1Ds.
Corsair IV 977 Goodyear FG-1Ds.

2,012 FAA CORSAIRS
________________________________________


FAA Corsairs originally fought in a camouflage scheme, with a light-green / dark-green salamander patterning on top and a white belly, but were later painted overall blue. Those operating in the Pacific theater acquired a specialized British insignia, a modified blue-white roundel with white "bars" to make it look more like a US than a Japanese insignia to prevent friendly-fire incidents.
FAA Corsairs performed their first combat action on 3 April 1944, with Number 1834 Squadron flying from the HMS VICTORIOUS to help provide cover for a strike on the German super-battleship TIRPITZ in a Norwegian fjord. This was apparently the first combat operation of the Corsair off of an aircraft carrier. Further attacks on the TIRPITZ were performed in July and August 1944, with Corsairs from the HMS FORMIDABLE participating. It appears the Corsairs did not encounter aerial opposition on these raids. A confrontation between a Corsair and the tough German Focke-Wulf FW-190 would have made for an interesting fight.

Even as British Corsairs were fighting the Germans, they were going into combat in the Indian Ocean against the Japanese, with the first operational sorties on 19 April. Royal Navy carriers would be participants in the final battle for the Japanese home islands. On 9 August 1945, days before the end of the war, Corsairs from HMS FORMIDABLE were attacking Shiogama harbor on the northeast coast of Japan. A Canadian pilot, Lieutenant Robert H. Gray, was hit by flak but pressed home his attack on a Japanese destroyer, sinking it with a 450 kilogram (1,000 pound) bomb but crashing into the sea. He was posthumously awarded the last Victoria Cross of World War II.

425 (some sources say 370) Corsairs were also provided to the Royal New Zealand Air Force, beginning in late 1943. By the time the New Zealanders had worked up to operational Corsair squadrons in 1944, there was little for them to shoot at in the South Pacific, and they saw little combat. Most of the New Zealander Corsairs were scrapped after the war, as were the British Corsairs.

PlimPlam
10-30-2004, 01:53 AM
I agree it will be a handfull online sooner or later. Simply because people love it and will learn it. All of it.

But its a big heavy bird. Made for diving in one fell swoop and team tactics. Its not particularly a good df server type of beast. Imo.

But what do I know. The navy gunsites are still driving me nuts.

Meh.

Aaron_GT
10-30-2004, 04:28 AM
LilHorse wrote:
"Yeah, but since the Kriegsmarine didn't have much of a carrier force to speak of, such a match up would not be historical"

The Tirpitz was in a fjord in Norway at the time. The LW had 109s based in Norway at the time. Hence the Corsairs, which were flying fighter cover for the attack planes.

Platypus_1.JaVA
10-30-2004, 05:03 AM
The 190 (any version) has Corsairs for breakfast! Maybe the corsair is what the P-47 should be?

MEGILE
10-30-2004, 05:36 AM
The 190 has the Corsair for breakfast?
Pass left on that crack pipe bro.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

Franzen
10-30-2004, 07:17 AM
Ok, here's my 2 cents on the Corsair.

I tried it and told my buddy(who doesn't have PF yet)it was a killer, especially at low alt turn fighting. He argued with me and told me it's impossible, sent me all sorts of specs., and challenged me to prove it with a track. So, I made a track whereas I went against 4 zekes, low alt. I turned with them and let them fire at me. Of course, they couldn't touch me. In the track you can see the continuous vapor from their wingtips as we were turning. I'm guessing they were at their limit. I continued the turn until I got their sixes and one by one shot them down. The Corsair F4u1C has some awesome firepower. I then sent this track to my buddy and the argument was over.

Now, in reality, I don't know, but in PF they are probably the best, at least until the second or third patch is released. I am a "Luftlover" by default(see my name)and look forward to roasting a few Corsairs with either my 109G2/G14 or Fw190A4. I see it this way; I could get angry and complain about "uber newb planes" or get even and shoot them down. The latter is much more comforting.

If anyone tells me to post my track, forget it. I have nothing to prove, I've already done it and don't have the time for this.

That's my 2 cents, now I'm broke. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz Franzen

MEGILE
10-30-2004, 07:21 AM
How did your buddy watch the track, if he doesn't have PF yet? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Franzen
10-30-2004, 07:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Megile:
How did your buddy watch the track, if he doesn't have PF yet? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

he he he, you got me there. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Just think "leaked alpha and so on", and ask no more. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz Franzen

TAGERT.
10-30-2004, 08:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
Ok, here's my 2 cents on the Corsair.

I tried it and told my buddy(who doesn't have PF yet)it was a killer, especially at low alt turn fighting. He argued with me and told me it's impossible, sent me all sorts of specs., <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That does go againts the general notion that the F4u was not a slow and low turn fighter.. Same notion is held for the P51 vs. 109s. Good news is the slow and low fights were the exception and not the rule.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
and challenged me to prove it with a track. So, I made a track whereas I went against 4 zekes, low alt. I turned with them and let them fire at me. Of course, they couldn't touch me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>AI zekes? If so, not a valid test.. proves nothing... imho.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
In the track you can see the continuous vapor from their wingtips as we were turning. I'm guessing they were at their limit. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Guess again. In rl wingtip vapor has more to do with the amount of mosture in the air.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
I continued the turn until I got their sixes and one by one shot them down. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Again.. AI.. says noting about the FM's but does say alot about the AI.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
The Corsair F4u1C has some awesome firepower. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100%

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
I then sent this track to my buddy and the argument was over. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Then you and your buddy dont seem to realise that flying againts AI means noting.. On that note flying againts real people is not all that telling either.. In that some are worse than the AI.. But you get someone that knows how to fly the zero online and they will hand your your F4u A$$ each and every time in a low and slow fight.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
Now, in reality, I don't know, but in PF they are probably the best, at least until the second or third patch is released. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, complex simulators tend to take a few tweaks to get evertyhing just right.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
I am a "Luftlover" by default (see my name) and look forward to roasting a few Corsairs with either my 109G2/G14 or Fw190A4. I see it this way; I could get angry and complain about "uber newb planes" or get even and shoot them down. The latter is much more comforting. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Or you could do both.. In light of the fact that your whinning here.. Only thing left is for you to do is shoot one down. I knew it wouldnt take long for the Luft Loving Nazi Excuse Making crowd to show up and start crying about the F4u's performace.. But to make up a stroy about the F4u being a better slow and low turn fighter than a zero? I didnt think anyone could stoop that low.. I just hope Oleg is prepaird for all the smoke he will have to sift through

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
If anyone tells me to post my track, forget it. I have nothing to prove, I've already done it and don't have the time for this. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Which only proves your full of it imho.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
That's my 2 cents, now I'm broke. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually it was more like 1 cent.

Fehler
10-30-2004, 09:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
I knew it wouldnt take long for the Luft Loving Nazi Excuse Making crowd to show up and start crying about the F4u's performace.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tagert.. One last time. Your tone offends me. Please stop with the name calling. If you want to offer your opinion on things, fine, that is well within the guidlines of this forum. If you insist on insulting people because of the planes they like to fly, that is NOT within the guidelines.

You can sugar coat your tone and say, I am not directing it AT anyone, but even a moron can see through your agenda. So, again, I ask you to stop it.

There are no Nazis here. The Nazi party was destroyed in 1945. So, unless Hitler, or one of his henchmen have come here to post, your words have no merit, and are only designed to insite people.

I do plan on reporting this to the mods. I come here for enlightenment, and to get people's feelings on topics concerning this sim and/or WWII information in general. I do not come here to listen to inciteful rhetoric.

Ankanor
10-30-2004, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by TAGERT.:
Guess again. In rl wingtip vapor has more to do with the amount of mosture in the air.


Now, Mr. Could you enlighten us all and tell us where exactly is the "air moisture" setting... IN GAME. Sorry to disturb your dreams, wake up, this is a game!!!

and I am with Fehler, Name calling has to stop. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Franzen
10-30-2004, 09:58 AM
Tagert, what the heck is your problem? Is English your third language?

I simply told my experience with a flight sim, game, far from reality. Gimme a break buddy, when did I ever pee in your Corn Flakes?

Of course, in reality, vapor trails have more to do with humidity than turns, but if you've ever notice, it doesn't work this way in the sim.

And did you ever notice how people complain about the AI being able to turn at the limits?

And did you even notice I said I knew nothing about these planes in reality?

Also, until you've finished your third grade history book I suggest you use the term "Nazi" for a mispronounced adjective describing your attitude.

Where was I whining? It seems to me whining never started until you posted.

As for "stooping low", I would say the lowest I ever stooped is here and now, replying to such an ignorant post.

I really don't know where you get off with this ****. No one in this community has ever pissed me off as much as you have. Having a big mouth doesn't make you tough, it makes you annoying.

I apologize to the community for this post and if the mods wanna ban me I'll understand.

Fritz Franzen, AKA "Nazi"

Fehler
10-30-2004, 10:04 AM
I will be fair, however..

If you cut through the rhetoric, Tagert has a very valid point. Testing things against AI is not quite fair, so to speak.

The AI flys by it's own set of parameters in order to induce good gameplay. They rarely stall, and can hold a plane on the edge far longer than a human can. That is also why they seem unaffected by damage at times, and generally dont make handling mistakes like you see online against human pilots.

But they are also stupid because they can be forced to do whatever you want them to if you understand their routines. An example of this would be to take a P80 and fight it with a J8A. If you are patient, and make the AI commit to their mistakes, you can win anytime.

So would that mean that we should abandon Jet technology for Bi-plane technology? ROFL!

It's all a factor of gameplay. Some things are represented in certain manners in the game because of computing power and the ability to program artificial intelligence.

Franzen
10-30-2004, 10:39 AM
Well, simply put, my buddy said it couldn't turn with the zekes. Before this he had asked me if I had tried the Corsair and I told him what I had done with it. He challanged me to record it cause he said it was impossible. When I said I was turning with them I meant it literally, in as tight a circle as possible, continuously. I gave them my 6 to start and kept turning until I got theirs. Believe me, it does take time. But once again, it had nothing to do with reality or even online. It was simply an experience I had.

And in my post I was offering a solution to "Luftwhiners" and "Allied whiners" alike; take the so-called "newb planes" as a challenge.

All too often some guyz take this game much too seriously. For some there seems to be two grey areas between reality, history, and a video game. This supports my decision to post less often and play rarely. I have a wife and a job. I think Boosher also made the right decision.

Fritz Franzen

TAGERT.
10-30-2004, 10:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fehler:
Tagert.. One last time. Your tone offends me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok.. so is it high pitch tones or low pitch tones? My voice is pretty deap.. But I guess I could try and speak higher or lower if it will help?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
Please stop with the name calling. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Name Calling? You yourself said you were a "Luftlover" I just repeated what you said.. As for Nazi Excuse Maker.. Note I am NOT calling you a Nazi, just an Excuse Maker for Nazis.. Two very differen things

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
If you want to offer your opinion on things, fine, that is well within the guidlines of this forum. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100% as are yours.. AND get this as are opinions of others opinions

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
If you insist on insulting people because of the planes they like to fly, that is NOT within the guidelines. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Good thing I dont than

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
You can sugar coat your tone and say, I am not directing it AT anyone, but even a moron can see through your agenda. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Im not directing it at anyone specific, but if the shoe fits! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
So, again, I ask you to stop it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>In summary, you called yourself a "Luftlover" and Excuse Maker is not name calling

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
There are no Nazis here. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I wouldnt be so sure about that

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
The Nazi party was destroyed in 1945. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Them being in power was destroyed.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
So, unless Hitler, or one of his henchmen have come here to post, your words have no merit, and are only designed to insite people. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Only if they make excuses for the Nazi's and when pointed out get upset about making excuses for Nazi's.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
I do plan on reporting this to the mods. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>dont forget to tell your mom too

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
I come here for enlightenment, and to get people's feelings on topics concerning this sim and/or WWII information in general. I do not come here to listen to inciteful rhetoric. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So.. calling yourself a Luftlover and saying how much you will enjoy shooting down an allied plane is enlightenment?

Franzen
10-30-2004, 10:57 AM
BTW Tagert, "Luftlover" refers to someone who likes the planes of the Luftwaffe.

"Luftwaffe" is the German Airforce.

"Allied lover" refers to someone who likes the planes used by the Allied forces, has nothing to do with a moving company.

Fritz Franzen, previously a secret Nazi agent.
Current Status: cover blown by Tagert Intellegence

Franzen
10-30-2004, 11:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fehler:
Tagert.. One last time. Your tone offends me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok.. so is it high pitch tones or low pitch tones? My voice is pretty deap.. But I guess I could try and speak higher or lower if it will help?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
Please stop with the name calling. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Name Calling? You yourself said you were a "Luftlover" I just repeated what you said.. As for Nazi Excuse Maker.. Note I am NOT calling you a Nazi, just an Excuse Maker for Nazis.. Two very differen things

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
If you want to offer your opinion on things, fine, that is well within the guidlines of this forum. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100% as are yours.. AND get this as are opinions of others opinions

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
If you insist on insulting people because of the planes they like to fly, that is NOT within the guidelines. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Good thing I dont than

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
You can sugar coat your tone and say, I am not directing it AT anyone, but even a moron can see through your agenda. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Im not directing it at anyone specific, but if the shoe fits! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
So, again, I ask you to stop it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>In summary, you called yourself a "Luftlover" and Excuse Maker is not name calling

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
There are no Nazis here. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I wouldnt be so sure about that

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
The Nazi party was destroyed in 1945. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Them being in power was destroyed.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
So, unless Hitler, or one of his henchmen have come here to post, your words have no merit, and are only designed to insite people. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Only if they make excuses for the Nazi's and when pointed out get upset about making excuses for Nazi's.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
I do plan on reporting this to the mods. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>dont forget to tell your mom too

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
I come here for enlightenment, and to get people's feelings on topics concerning this sim and/or WWII information in general. I do not come here to listen to inciteful rhetoric. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So.. calling yourself a Luftlover and saying how much you will enjoy shooting down an allied plane is enlightenment? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ha ha ha, Tagert, you are not pissing me off anymore. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, eh?

Take a minute to actually do some reading. Who are you quoting?

Fritz Franzen, suspected Nazi

plumps_
10-30-2004, 11:23 AM
If Tagert had to pay a Dollar for every line of text or quotation he adds to a thread this forum would be a better place. But until then he can go on drowning useful or at least interesting information in his lengthy, noisy sophisms.

TAGERT.
10-30-2004, 12:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
Ha ha ha, Tagert, you are not pissing me off anymore. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Told mom and she told you to go outside and play?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, eh? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Lets assume that is true... Who is the duller blade.. the dull blade or the guy who argues with him?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
Take a minute to actually do some reading. Who are you quoting? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>All you Luftlovers are so much alike.. it is hard to tell sometimes

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
Fritz Franzen, suspected Nazi <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And confirmed Nazi Excuse Maker

WUAF_Badsight
10-30-2004, 12:22 PM
Tagert thinks the Corsair is fine as it is in PF ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

TAGERT.
10-30-2004, 12:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
Tagert thinks the Corsair is fine as it is in PF ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I actully dont know either way.. I have no proof or facts to back it up. Just the general notion that the F4u was not a low and slow turn fighter. That *notion* is what I see when playing the game offline and online.. As with the P51 vs 109.. So, I dont know what you guys are whinning about? Certanly noting has been presented here that would indicate otherwise.. A perfect example is that weak test by Franzen that the F4u can turn with a zero at low and slow speeds. The one thing I am sure of is flying agints AI as some sort of proof is a joke at best.. Someone just making things up to stir the pot in the hopes Oleg will change something.

WUAF_Badsight
10-30-2004, 12:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
As with the P51 vs 109.. So, I dont know what you guys are whinning about? . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
um , who was whining ?

or do you take any critisim of US planes as a insult & have to call it whining ?

WUAF_Badsight
10-30-2004, 12:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
A perfect example is that weak test by Franzen that the F4u can turn with a zero at low and slow speeds. . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
have you turn fought AI Zekes ?

or have you turn fought any AI ?

the AI Zero's & Yak 3's put up the hardest fight of any AI

they can out-turn all but the best of the online players

thats why youE fight AI as they dont know what to do & just follow you

but thats also the point of turn-fighting them as it what they are good at

AI are disdained , not because they suck at turn-fighting , but because they cannot counter E tactics for beans

calling it "weak" shows your either ignorant or spinning

Ankanor
10-30-2004, 01:12 PM
Fehler, Franzen, He's dragging you down in the Mud. And we can see he has superior moron ability. He will surely beat both of you in a sustained jerk fight. Leave him alone.

BTW, even if he has a valid point, there are mature ways to explain his view. And I wouldn't describe his way as mature. Age doesn't matter here, you can be an ignorant Redneck dumb*ss even if you're quite old.

GR142_Astro
10-30-2004, 01:30 PM
Oh my.

The game is but a few days old and this already? Are we going to start doing Pre-Order whines soon, to head off the possibility of a particular nation's aircraft being worth a darn?

I don't know what drugs a few of you are taking, but either raise or lower the dosage. You turn fight a human-flown Zero and you are toast in about 30 seconds. Don't worry Luft/Empire fliers, despite the humorous wording of the intial post, your Ki84 is still at the very top of the heap in regards to prop planes. It also chews the Corsairs to pieces. the 109 is going to own it too, in a turn fight.

Yes, if the Corsair jock is a good shot and a smart stick, then a bunch of blues are going to go down to this gull-winged beaut. We finally have some hitting power http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Some of you are already howling uber uber uber, based on a couple of QMBs. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif FYI, the game's AI seems to be even Dumber than ever! I can own the Ki84 and Zeros in qmb. In a Jug, Corsair, whatever.

So, let's pack up the whine show and give the game a little bit of breathing time before we all have to be trucked off to the hospital over this apparrent end of the world.

Ankanor
10-30-2004, 01:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GR142_Astro:
I don't know what drugs a few of you are taking <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well, I admit the last piece of Cheesecake was a bit too much... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

GR142_Astro
10-30-2004, 01:47 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
10-30-2004, 01:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by woofiedog:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gifA little info on the Corsair's British Service.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey nice little bit of info there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif thank you for meeting the challenge http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I knew the Brits had them but didn't know they were involved in the raid on the Tirpitz and that little nugget about the clipped wings should provide some interesting conversation http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Once again thanks for putting this thread to some ACTUAL good use http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

We now return our viewrs to the usual Jerry Springerism's and Anal retentive quote waring

REMEMBER BUY WAR BONDS

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BBB_Hyperion
10-30-2004, 02:19 PM
Corsair will be fixed be sure http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

123-Wulf-JG123
10-30-2004, 02:53 PM
Frankly I am astonished that the mods have not stepped in and nailed Mr. "Im thirteen and my little Pony is best" Tagert, his offensive comments are way beyond what I thought was allowed on this board. I have to say the mods really are either in total agreement with his statements and thus biased and uncaring to many of the good contributors on this board, or they're asleep.The irony is that I do agree with much of what he says, I just think the child has a problem with toilet training or something.

TAGERT.
10-30-2004, 03:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 123-Wulf-JG123:
Frankly I am astonished that the mods have not stepped in and nailed Mr. "Im thirteen and my little Pony is best" Tagert, his offensive comments are way beyond what I thought was allowed on this board. I have to say the mods really are either in total agreement with his statements and thus biased and uncaring to many of the good contributors on this board, or they're asleep.The irony is that I do agree with much of what he says, I just think the child has a problem with toilet training or something. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Maybe.. just maybe becuse they noticed that you guys are actully the ones doing all the name calling. A perfect example here is your swipe at calling me a thirteen year old. The only times I have suck to calling anyone a name is after they used it on me severl times.. And then I used the same name on them that they used on me first. So, cast the first stone.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
10-30-2004, 03:54 PM
Ok I will bite but only cos its slow at work tonight. The reason you are having this argument is because of your some what ill advised choice of phraseology. I quote

'I knew it wouldnt take long for the Luft Loving Nazi Excuse Making crowd to show up'

Hmmmm

instead of posting the above you could may be have used

'I knew it wouldnt take long for the Luft Loving Excuse Making crowd to show up'

Notice the SUBTLE difference ?

It may come as a suprise to you but not every one who likes to fly a german aircraft is or has ever been a Nazi sympathiser.

Just like every one who flies an allied aircraft is not necessarily a bourgeouis capitalist pig!

Ps your GREEN and your UGLY http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

nya nya nya nya nyaaaa nya

darkhorizon11
10-30-2004, 04:00 PM
You guys take aircraft performance to literally. I'd say the Corsair can hang with the big boys but it reall depends upon the human factor in the cockpit and how lucky he is. IE his position, alt., a/s in relation to the enemy. Its anybodys game and anybodys fight.

On a personal bias, I take the Corsair, its quite an awesome plane. Luftwaffe planes are great don't get me wrong. But I still take the Corsair, I'm picking up PF on Monday so I will get to go shot for shot with the best fighters of the Eastern block soon in the Corsair soon. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

123-Wulf-JG123
10-30-2004, 04:07 PM
Hmm... a balanced and well put argument, how refreshing, makes a change from the jingoistic,tunnel visioned, nationalistic, bigoted nonsense that has appeared in this thread and several others frequented by an obviously troubled child.
Nice post Darkhorizon, I have to say though I think the Corsair is a beast and if flown by a competent pilot SHOULD dominate no argument there.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
10-30-2004, 04:14 PM
OOh OOh

IBTL

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

123-Wulf-JG123
10-30-2004, 04:28 PM
I don't think there will be a lock...this individual obviously posts his malevolent tripe with the blessings of the mods.

GR142_Astro
10-30-2004, 04:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BBB_Hyperion:
Corsair will be fixed be sure http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Heaven forbid we have a competitive US aircraft. Ki84 owns the Corsair and you want it "fixed".

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
10-30-2004, 04:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 123-Wulf-JG123:
I don't think there will be a lock...this individual obviously posts his malevolent tripe with the blessings of the mods. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now now no need to be like that we are all brothers under the sun mate.

I think some of the problem is that certain words do not translate as insulting in a country where total freedom of speach is an accepted right of every one no mater what their political agenda.

But and this is just an FYI in Europe at least the 'N' word is considerd deeply insulting when applied to an individual in any context.

Enough said?

123-Wulf-JG123
10-30-2004, 05:11 PM
Total freedom of speech exists in very few countries, try exercising that right by saying something which the establishment does not agree with...you will be screamed down. I can only think of one or two European countries where that freedom is practiced by the government. Certainly in the UK the freedom exists as well, but exercising it is a different matter. And, yes, the N word is totally insulting and offensive, but then again sometimes those that bandy it around have neither the knowledge nor understanding of its implications and offensiveness, to them the word is something they saw or heard in a comic, or John Wayne movie, and their understanding or comprehension goes no further than that. Those that have had family directly affected by Nazis are a different matter, certainly many Euros here have had relatives killed or imprisoned by the Nazis, (I had several relatives killed in action and several made POWs), and hold no truck for them, but I do prefer to fly on the Axis side in this GAME, it does not make me a Nazi, nor does it make any other individual a Nazi, just as flying a Jug or Pony does not make anyone a thick, ignorant redneck.
Any individual that places another game player into either the Nazi or the Redneck camp, based on what aircraft they fly in this GAME, is a very sad person indeed, and in fact deserves to get all the help that is available to such delusional, sad, characters.

TAGERT.
10-30-2004, 05:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 123-Wulf-JG123:
Total freedom of speech exists in very few countries, try exercising that right by saying something which the establishment does not agree with...you will be screamed down. I can only think of one or two European countries where that freedom is practiced by the government. Certainly in the UK the freedom exists as well, but exercising it is a different matter. And, yes, the N word is totally insulting and offensive, but then again sometimes those that bandy it around have neither the knowledge nor understanding of its implications and offensiveness, to them the word is something they saw or heard in a comic, or John Wayne movie, and their understanding or comprehension goes no further than that. Those that have had family directly affected by Nazis are a different matter, certainly many Euros here have had relatives killed or imprisoned by the Nazis, (I had several relatives killed in action and several made POWs), and hold no truck for them, but I do prefer to fly on the Axis side in this GAME, it does not make me a Nazi, nor does it make any other individual a Nazi, just as flying a Jug or Pony does not make anyone a thick, ignorant redneck.
Any individual that places another game player into either the Nazi or the Redneck camp, based on what aircraft they fly in this GAME, is a very sad person indeed, and in fact deserves to get all the help that is available to such delusional, sad, characters. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So what part of me not calling anyone a Nazi do you not udnerstand?

Atomic_Marten
10-30-2004, 05:47 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
10-30-2004, 05:53 PM
Wulf I agree with you completely and understand exactley why you feel strongly about this. However I think it is wrong to assume that because an individual has not been struck down for his comments/opinions instantaniously in some god like fashion. That therefore the mods are some how biased in his favour.

The Simple fact is that Mods have lives and families too and they cannot nor should not be expected to be in attendance 24/7 to deal with every single instance of an offensive post. They generally do the best job they can in the time that they have available to deal with infringements of the rules and that is unfortunatley the nature of this particular form of debate. The only other form of moderation we have is our own personal sense of wrong and right as free thinking and hopefully moraly upstanding individuals.

However there will always be those that do not see things the way we do and if it is indeed an infringement of the forum rules I have every confidence that the offender will be dealt with as soon as possible in the appropriate manner. The best solution in this case is to wait and see.

Either way it will serve no good to debate this subject further. All we can hope is that the said offender in this case will at least have the sense to see things from a perspective other than his own and think twice in future before making a similar sweeping judgments.

sigh

I see however that that is not the case. Nice one mate way to stir the fooking pot some more

123-Wulf-JG123
10-30-2004, 06:19 PM
Yup, I empathise BalRog, "SIGH". Of course it would help if the individual concerned could even spell, but I presume his inability to grasp basic, fundamental facts, is an indicator of his total ignorance. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
10-30-2004, 06:29 PM
ahhh well like I said before .........

IBTL

Aaron_GT
10-30-2004, 06:48 PM
Tagert wrote:
"Just the general notion that the F4u was not a low and slow turn fighter."

It wouldn't be the ideal choice, though, as it had a tendency to go into nasty snap rolls when piling on the power, which might be tempting for a novice. Whilst it does stall and spin in PF, some have suggested its departure characteristics are relatively mild. Again if they were severe then pulling on the edge of the stall would be dangerous for a novice in real life. In any event fighting with high energy and probably BnZ is a more survivable tactic than getting pulled into a turn fight. You should only really get into a turn fight if your plane has an energy disadvantage and you need to pull the opponent into a turn fight in a one-on-one situation. (In a many-on-many situation getting even slower to TnB puts you at risk of being BnZ by other opponents). So whilst you might be able to TnB in an F4U BnZ makes more sense. All the F4Us should have sufficient armament to do this, especially the 4 cannon armed ones!

This having been said, it can be hard to avoid getting into a turn fight - the tendency is to do it, not disengage and come round again. If we were in real fear of dying this might be different.

Franzen
10-30-2004, 07:21 PM
This is totally amazing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Caps Lock on: I DID NOT MAKE A BLOODY TEST! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Caps Lock off. What is it with some of the guyz in here? Talk about the blind leading the blind. I did not make a test. Get a translator to help you read my post, as it was written. Don't add anything from your fantasies and don't try to change it. No one was friggin whining. Nowhere in my post was there a complaint about any plane. I apologize to the few that require pictures and crayons for comprehension but I just don't have any.

Don't be too hard on the mods, they do have a life.

Fritz Franzen

Osirisx9
10-30-2004, 11:00 PM
WOW...This thread is still going. I guess I opened up a can of worms. You guys should fly bombers more often, its getting a little tense in here.

RAF238thOsiris

woofiedog
10-31-2004, 06:31 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifYour welcome tHeBaLrOgRoCkS! Good thread though.

NorrisMcWhirter
10-31-2004, 07:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Osirisx9:
WOW...This thread is still going. I guess I opened up a can of worms. You guys should fly bombers more often, its getting a little tense in here.

RAF238thOsiris <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you knew full well what would happen following your original post..so the feint of surprise doesn't wash.

I think we also know that certain people seem to be able to get away with statements that, frankly, contravene the forum rules; enough said on that matter.

I'm sure the Corsair will be fixed as will most of the aircraft which have dodgy FMs. I'm not sure whether these FMs were put in to help carrier landings but there doesn't have to be a reason for everything...we've already seen that.

Cheers,
Norris

Franzen
10-31-2004, 08:19 AM
Ok, I've read a few posts here mentioning the Corsair will be fixed. Please read carefully before name-calling or flame-throwing.

Once again, I know nothing of the real Corsair's abilities, but judging by the posts some believe it's wrong. If so, please post something that shows there is a discrepincy(sp?)between reality and Oleg's flight model.

This is not in anyway a challenge to your posts. I'm just missing some info here and want to learn more. I'm simply curious about it.

Now I know how McDonald's must feel having to post a warning saying their coffee is hot.

Any name-callers or flame-starters beware, I got lots of material left in my Acme Home Voodoo Doll Kit. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz Franzen

Osirisx9
10-31-2004, 08:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Osirisx9:
WOW...This thread is still going. I guess I opened up a can of worms. You guys should fly bombers more often, its getting a little tense in here.

RAF238thOsiris <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you knew full well what would happen following your original post..so the feint of surprise doesn't wash.


Cheers,
Norris <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmnn I think your statement doesn't wash either. You act if i knew the word Nazi was going enter the conversation. I have no control of what others might say or do. I just made a simple observation and post about the f4u 1C corsair and thought that individuals who like to fly for the Axis side might question the FM of the aircraft. Whats so suspect about that. Dont have a stroke dude. Relax.

RAF238thOsiris

Franzen
10-31-2004, 08:50 AM
Osiris, I've read your posts before and respect you. Especially when thinking of the time you had to attend to the wrong accusations about your server. I don't remember the details but it was about a year ago and I think you know what I mean.

I don't think you meant anything by the title but in this forum you have to expect flak with a title like that. Strangely enough, it wasn't the "Luftlovers" that started the mudslinging, but it started anyway.

I don't speak for Norris but I think this is what he's trying to say. I think it sucks that you have to so carefully watch everything you say or post these days. But this is the current meaning of freedom of speech. It is historical and political, not literal....and nothing else.

Fritz Franzen

Osirisx9
10-31-2004, 09:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
Osiris, I've read your posts before and respect you. Especially when thinking of the time you had to attend to the wrong accusations about your server. I don't remember the details but it was about a year ago and I think you know what I mean.

I don't think you meant anything by the title but in this forum you have to expect flak with a title like that. Strangely enough, it wasn't the "Luftlovers" that started the mudslinging, but it started anyway.

I don't speak for Norris but I think this is what he's trying to say. I think it sucks that you have to so carefully watch everything you say or post these days. But this is the current meaning of freedom of speech. It is historical and political, not literal....and nothing else.

Fritz Franzen <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I dont mind the Flak. My B-25 can handle it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

RAF238thOsiris

Franzen
10-31-2004, 09:13 AM
Have you tried to land the B25 on a carrier yet? I tried to make a mission in FMB. I wanted to make a little "Dolittle Mission" and take off from carriers in the B25. The only problem is the trap door on the carrier deck, my B25 just falls through. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Any suggestions?

Fritz Franzen

NorrisMcWhirter
10-31-2004, 09:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Osirisx9:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Osirisx9:
WOW...This thread is still going. I guess I opened up a can of worms. You guys should fly bombers more often, its getting a little tense in here.

RAF238thOsiris <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you knew full well what would happen following your original post..so the feint of surprise doesn't wash.


Cheers,
Norris <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmnn I think your statement doesn't wash either. You act if i knew the word Nazi was going enter the conversation. I have no control of what others might say or do. I just made a simple observation and post about the f4u 1C corsair and thought that individuals who like to fly for the Axis side might question the FM of the aircraft. Whats so suspect about that. Dont have a stroke dude. Relax.

RAF238thOsiris <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm far from getting excited, Osiris; I've seen this yawn-fest many times before and I'm sure I'll see misguided posts kicking it off all over again.

Of course LW would question the Corsair FM - it's allied, so it instantly makes it suspect. Par for the course, really.

The second paragraph of my post wasn't aimed at you but you've been around long enough to know it would kick off into the usual playground debacle.

Cheers,
Norris

TAGERT.
10-31-2004, 09:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
It wouldn't be the ideal choice, though, as it had a tendency to go into nasty snap rolls when piling on the power, which might be tempting for a novice. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I recall reading about how one should not pile on the power during take off.. In that due to the torq.. once you left the deck and your wheels were no longer keeping you level that it would roll over into the drink.. Thus the name ensin eliminator. i.e. just the general notion gleamed from reading pilots accounts.. I have no data to back that up. But I dont recal reading anything about that while in normal flight? I would *feel* that while in normal flight at normal speeds it would not be a problem? Again, just a *feel* based on physics, no real data to back that up.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
Whilst it does stall and spin in PF, some have suggested its departure characteristics are relatively mild. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well departure as in a stall is very different from the torque problem mentioned above. That torque problem should only happen at slow speeds.. like take off and landings.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
Again if they were severe then pulling on the edge of the stall would be dangerous for a novice in real life. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Dangerous if he was also low in alt and unable to recover from the stall/spin

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
In any event fighting with high energy and probably BnZ is a more survivable tactic than getting pulled into a turn fight. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100%

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
You should only really get into a turn fight if your plane has an energy disadvantage and you need to pull the opponent into a turn fight in a one-on-one situation. (In a many-on-many situation getting even slower to TnB puts you at risk of being BnZ by other opponents). So whilst you might be able to TnB in an F4U BnZ makes more sense. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>In game life I agree 100% but in real life... I dont know..

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
All the F4Us should have sufficient armament to do this, especially the 4 cannon armed ones! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100%

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
This having been said, it can be hard to avoid getting into a turn fight - the tendency is to do it, not disengage and come round again. If we were in real fear of dying this might be different. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>In game life I agree 100% but in real life... I dont know..

TAGERT.
10-31-2004, 09:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
This is totally amazing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Caps Lock on: I DID NOT MAKE A BLOODY TEST! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Caps Lock off. What is it with some of the guyz in here? Talk about the blind leading the blind. I did not make a test. Get a translator to help you read my post, as it was written. Don't add anything from your fantasies and don't try to change it. No one was friggin whining. Nowhere in my post was there a complaint about any plane. I apologize to the few that require pictures and crayons for comprehension but I just don't have any.

Don't be too hard on the mods, they do have a life.

Fritz Franzen <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You didnt? Then who wrote the following?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by someone calling themselfs Franzen:
Ok, here's my 2 cents on the Corsair.

I tried it and told my buddy(who doesn't have PF yet)it was a killer, especially at low alt turn fighting. He argued with me and told me it's impossible, sent me all sorts of specs., and challenged me to prove it with a track. So, I made a track whereas I went against 4 zekes, low alt. I turned with them and let them fire at me. Of course, they couldn't touch me. In the track you can see the continuous vapor from their wingtips as we were turning. I'm guessing they were at their limit. I continued the turn until I got their sixes and one by one shot them down. The Corsair F4u1C has some awesome firepower. I then sent this track to my buddy and the argument was over.

Now, in reality, I don't know, but in PF they are probably the best, at least until the second or third patch is released. I am a "Luftlover" by default(see my name) and look forward to roasting a few Corsairs with either my 109G2/G14 or Fw190A4. I see it this way; I could get angry and complain about "uber newb planes" or get even and shoot them down. The latter is much more comforting.

If anyone tells me to post my track, forget it. I have nothing to prove, I've already done it and don't have the time for this.

That's my 2 cents, now I'm broke. Wink2

Fritz Franzen <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sure sounds like a test to me?

Only thing different about this *test* from other *tests* is that most people are willing to share the track file with others after the *test* Something you clearly went out of your way to say you wouldnt do. Which makes me think you were just full of it. So.. If it was not a test.. Just what would you call it? Stirring the pot?

crazyivan1970
10-31-2004, 12:15 PM
I would strongly suggest you people to start thinking about what you posting and treat each other with respect. With new forums software suspending accounts is easier then ever!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

So, give it some thoughts

Franzen
10-31-2004, 10:49 PM
The universe is full of mysteries and somethings just cannot be explained. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Fritz Franzen

JtD
11-01-2004, 03:59 AM
No 1C Corsairs fought in Western Europe.

Corsairs currently seem to be overmodelled in climb.

Corsairs power/weight ratio isn't good enough to make them the ideal turner.

Franzen made a track where he outturned Zeros in a Corsair, not a test.

Flights against AI are a good testing tool.

Sorry for posting in this thread.

beepboop
11-01-2004, 05:59 AM
What'd the big deal here? So, the cannon-armed Corsair is a sweet plane, and will be flown by noobs all over the place. We've already got noob planes, and no one is complaining about them. It's just the western version of a La-7, or a Ki-84. No big deal.

geetarman
11-01-2004, 09:40 AM
I've flown the Corsair a bit since PF came out in the US.

To me, it appears to be about the best, late-war US dogfighter (although the Hellcat does the "knife-fight" thing better). That said, it's got some handicaps.

It does not climb as well as I thought, and, oddly, it seems kind of slow!

As with all the other good planes in the game, we now have more variety. I don't think it's gonna "own" any plane, but it's already chinking away at the other "uber" planes' ability to rule the skies. That's a good thing, imho.

joeap
11-01-2004, 10:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JtD:
No 1C Corsairs fought in Western Europe.

Corsairs currently seem to be overmodelled in climb.

Corsairs power/weight ratio isn't good enough to make them the ideal turner.

Franzen made a track where he outturned Zeros in a Corsair, not a test.

Flights against AI are a good testing tool.

Sorry for posting in this thread. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ahh did you read this thread? Corsairs DID fight in Europe, welll not LW fighters (they could have) but they took part in attacks against the Tirpitz, some carrying bombs as well.

TAGERT.
11-01-2004, 10:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
The universe is full of mysteries and somethings just cannot be explained. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Fritz Franzen <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes the universe is full of mysteries.. and you are just full of it.

TAGERT.
11-01-2004, 10:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JtD:
No 1C Corsairs fought in Western Europe. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Maybe not the C model. But the Brits did make use of the F4u.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JtD:
Corsairs currently seem to be overmodelled in climb. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Seem to be? Based on what exactally? What data did you use when you did your test in PF? And do you have a track of it?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JtD:
Corsairs power/weight ratio isn't good enough to make them the ideal turner. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Which is why thier tatics didnt focus on turn fights.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JtD:
Franzen made a track where he outturned Zeros in a Corsair, not a test. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Dissagree 100%

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JtD:
Flights against AI are a good testing tool. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100%! But only for testing AI not FM's

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JtD:
Sorry for posting in this thread. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I forgive you