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View Full Version : Whats wrong with the Ki-61?



looma_krappy
09-03-2008, 07:08 AM
Ki-61's are supposedly the Japanese 109s but they fly like crap. Whenever I'm in another sort of plane I'd always prefer to fight the Ki-61 because it's so slow and helpless, always turning and bleeding all its energy and going down in flames.

And whenever I'm in the Ki-61, I cant reach any high speed or altitude. And can't exactly get up to speed or retain that hard earned speed in it.

To those Ki-61 pilots out there... any tips? perhaps pros or cons or perhaps im doing something wrong...

Boosher
09-03-2008, 07:41 AM
Japanese 109s but they fly like crap. Whenever I'm in another sort of plane I'd always prefer to fight the Ki-61 because it's so slow and helpless, always turning and bleeding all its energy and going down in flames.

First off, don't turn. The Ki-61 is like a Japanese version of the 109 to the extreme. It climbs very well. Get it up to speed first. I usually find a good climb speed to be between 250 and 300 kph. Once you get up to altitude, stay there. Only dive down when you confirm enemy targets AND you'll be able to make a successful pass. If you can't, keep climbing.

There are some planes that can outclimb you, such as the P-38, but even then only in proper conditions, and the 38's are a rarity.

Don't turn. The Ki-61 is not a turning aircraft. If you have to turn do a yo-yo. Climb high, bank over, and let the lift of your wings and gravity take care of the turn for you at the top of the yo-yo maneuver.

looma_krappy
09-03-2008, 07:52 AM
what about the overheat problems? like, how does opening the radiator affect performance?

it seems like this bird has difficulty in maintaining E...

LEBillfish
09-03-2008, 08:46 AM
The Ki-61 is the epitome of balance. You can Z&B it, or T&B it equally well.

Real life it was said to be just a hair less manueverable then a Ki-43....Now unfortunately like all planes here the roll seems porked, yet past that you can get some good moderate speed out of it, it turns like a demon, is moderately tough with it's bullet proofed tanks (though does seem to always take magic bullet hits to the engine and oiling all wrong)....and so on.

It climbs well, dives like few can, turns great. If new to it set your throttle to 95%, prop pitch to 85%, radiator to 4/40%, elevator down 19 clicks, and have at it...Start with alt, then initiate with Z&B as you should in all planes yet once they start turning you can. In fact, if they start turning you have them.

K2

Buzzsaw-
09-03-2008, 11:49 AM
Salute

My attitude towards the Ki-61 is somewhat schizophrenic: I love the later Cannon armed versions, hate the earlier MG versions.

This is a very good aircraft, quite capable in a maneuver sense of taking on the majority of the Allied planes in the Pacific, but the handicap of just MG's in the early versions leaves it toothless. With the Cannons added in the later versions, you then have a balanced aircraft.

It does need to be flown at a higher altitude than the Zekes, to allow it to take advantage of its dive and high speed maneuverability. Unlike the Zekes, it can dive with Corsairs and Hellcats.

M_Gunz
09-03-2008, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by looma_krappy:
what about the overheat problems? like, how does opening the radiator affect performance?

try running at lower rpm and maybe less power at times


it seems like this bird has difficulty in maintaining E...

Old Saying: It's not the plane, it's the pilot.

Yippee.
09-03-2008, 12:06 PM
P38, rarity?

Do you mean you rarely encounter P38s online?

When flying the P38J, I don't have any trouble with Ki61s, zooming, turning...anything.

Marcel_Albert
09-03-2008, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by looma_krappy:
Ki-61's are supposedly the Japanese 109s but they fly like crap. Whenever I'm in another sort of plane I'd always prefer to fight the Ki-61 because it's so slow and helpless, always turning and bleeding all its energy and going down in flames.


It's perhaps understandable since it had worse aerodynamics , poorer acceleration , poorer roll rate and way more fuel weight (109's range would have made it useless in the pacific ) and less speed than 109 .. structure was also more vulnerable than 109

Ki-61 in 1944 was in term of performances (speed , climb , manoeuvrability at low and high speed ) approximately the equivalent of the P40-E of 1941 ... it is also comparable to an Emil except that it turns better but climbs slower , so it's not really an ace maker to fly in 1944 , providing you are lucky enough to fly the version with cannons , it becomes difficult to survive in it once the USA brings much faster and tougher aircrafts built for speed into the war , i got a lot of respect for succesful Ki-61 pilots , this plane is good at low speed turning dogfight and can be used for "boom and zoom" , but it does neither particularly well in my opinion , its poor accel and climbrate makes it an easy prey in long sustained turning fights , requires serious skills to be succesful in it

Wildnoob
09-03-2008, 12:38 PM
the cannon armed versions where produced in very small numbers (I think less then 200). because the cannons where actually german MG-151/20 who we brougth by the Japanese.

mortoma
09-03-2008, 04:09 PM
They are about the equivalent of a 109 EMIL as far as most stuff goes, especially speed. All that in a mid to late war scenario!! God help those that fly it.

If you flew an Emil, like say a E7, in any Pacific theater battle, you'd scarcely be able to tell the difference. Except the Emil has better guns, better climb and better turn. The Emil is only a few KPH slower. Go ahead and look at Hardball's of IL2 Compare if you don't believe me.

Would you want to fly an Emil in even the mid war, let alone the late war period? I think not. For this reason fly the KI-61 only if you like extreme challenges or c-r-a-p planes in general.

VW-IceFire
09-03-2008, 05:29 PM
I love flying the Ki-61 ...especially late war...but especially because I'm a bit nuts like that. And I usually do pretty well.

Ki-100 is a natural extension of that thinking too since its basically the same plane performance wise.

Its definitely to be flown as a B&Zer and then with a bit of turning thrown in. This is a plane where you really have to manage your energy because the engine won't make up for the fact that you blew all of your energy on some turning fight.

(Yet another plane that proves that no B&Z servers are madness - this plane has to be flown in a particular fashion)

BTW: It sounds like the people seen flying the Ki-61 in this example don't know how to make use of it. See someone like Billfish fly it or a few of the other folks out there. Its a different story. As it is with any plane and pilot fusion where the pilot knows whats going on and understands the plane.

mortoma
09-03-2008, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
I love flying the Ki-61 ...especially late war...but especially because I'm a bit nuts like that. And I usually do pretty well.

Ki-100 is a natural extension of that thinking too since its basically the same plane performance wise.

Its definitely to be flown as a B&Zer and then with a bit of turning thrown in. This is a plane where you really have to manage your energy because the engine won't make up for the fact that you blew all of your energy on some turning fight.

(Yet another plane that proves that no B&Z servers are madness - this plane has to be flown in a particular fashion)

BTW: It sounds like the people seen flying the Ki-61 in this example don't know how to make use of it. See someone like Billfish fly it or a few of the other folks out there. Its a different story. As it is with any plane and pilot fusion where the pilot knows whats going on and understands the plane. It's OK if people want to develop tactics to do well in a disadvantaged aircraft late in the war. Good for you guys. I could probably do better in it if I wanted to but I just want to fly faster planes that I don't have to fly carefully in. Now the KI-100 ain't too bad but still a little slow. It don't suit my style.

LEBillfish
09-03-2008, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
It's OK if people want to develop tactics to do well in a disadvantaged aircraft late in the war. Good for you guys. I could probably do better in it if I wanted to but I just want to fly faster planes that I don't have to fly carefully in. Now the KI-100 ain't too bad but still a little slow. It don't suit my style.

Ahhhh.....Well that I very much disagree with. Fly a faster plane feeling you don't have to be careful and you might as well call yourself "target drone".......I'll never forget when we got the J8, 109Z and YP80(?) way back when (think it was 2.?)...Everyone is flying the new muscle crates...SO who has to be a jerk and grab the J8 heading out to fight these knuckleheads? Yeah you guessed it.

I can't even recall how many jets I dropped, same with the other hard chargers....Boy were they mad....and boy did they start flying the J8 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

If you can master a plane with a defficiancy, learn the tactics that help make up for it....They serve you 100 fold when in an aircraft that doesn't have them. Hence why I both B&Z and T&B in all planes.....As there is nothing better then when your B&Z is dropping T&B on their own terms.

Sometimes the slurr of "cheat" a high compliment indeed when simply sour grapes.

K2

zardozid
09-03-2008, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
I love flying the Ki-61 ...especially late war...but especially because I'm a bit nuts like that. And I usually do pretty well.

Ki-100 is a natural extension of that thinking too since its basically the same plane performance wise.

Its definitely to be flown as a B&Zer and then with a bit of turning thrown in. This is a plane where you really have to manage your energy because the engine won't make up for the fact that you blew all of your energy on some turning fight.

(Yet another plane that proves that no B&Z servers are madness - this plane has to be flown in a particular fashion)

BTW: It sounds like the people seen flying the Ki-61 in this example don't know how to make use of it. See someone like Billfish fly it or a few of the other folks out there. Its a different story. As it is with any plane and pilot fusion where the pilot knows whats going on and understands the plane. It's OK if people want to develop tactics to do well in a disadvantaged aircraft late in the war. Good for you guys. I could probably do better in it if I wanted to but I just want to fly faster planes that I don't have to fly carefully in. Now the KI-100 ain't too bad but still a little slow. It don't suit my style. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You should check out the Spitfire VIII or one of the nine's....

SeaFireLIV
09-03-2008, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
It's OK if people want to develop tactics to do well in a disadvantaged aircraft late in the war. Good for you guys. I could probably do better in it if I wanted to but I just want to fly faster planes that I don't have to fly carefully in. Now the KI-100 ain't too bad but still a little slow. It don't suit my style.

Ah, the I can`t be @rsed to learn style.

TheCrux
09-03-2008, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by Wildnoob:
the cannon armed versions where produced in very small numbers (I think less then 200). because the cannons where actually german MG-151/20 who we brougth by the Japanese.

Since we're talking about in-game here, the numbers actually built are really not germane to the conversation.

Howrver, to set the record straight; The actual number of MG 151/20 equipped Hiens was 388. It should also be noted that there were later Hiens that were equipped with Japanese cannon, but with them nose mounted ( just like the Ki-100 configuration )

Also, there a few, very few ( perhaps 40 ) that were euipped with wing mounted 30mm cannon to cut up B-29's.

ElAurens
09-03-2008, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:

I can't even recall how many jets I dropped, same with the other hard chargers....Boy were they mad....and boy did they start flying the J8 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


K2

The first time I encountered a jet in the sim was when the 262 first appeared. I brought it down with a Brewster. He was not happy.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I've bagged enough blue painted aircraft in the Ki61 to know that it is not a helpless target drone.

Altamov_Steppes
09-03-2008, 10:34 PM
In development the Ki-61 was pitted in mock combat against a captured P-40E; a BF109E-3, a Ki-43-II and a Ki-44-1. This was done to evaluate its high diving speed as an effective answer to American tactics of using a diving approach to combat.
The Ki-61 demonstrated its superiority over them.
The advantage over the P-40 is a surprise and probably may have been a result of a non-P-40 driver at the controls perhpas the same for the 109 - but perhaps this is unfairly understimating the skill of the Japanese pilots).
It's wing loading was significantly higher than Japanese pilots were used to and this has performance ramifications both good and not so good. Its other advantage - common to most Japanese fighters - was that it was still light enough to slow down quickly - probably similar in degree to the 109). In most cases this is a tremendous advantage. It debuted over the north coast of New guinea in 1943 as replacement for the Ki-43. It's Ha-40 engine was not of the best standard.

jdigris001
09-05-2008, 03:26 PM
That is an interesting piece of history. How did the Japanese get the 109? Was it shipped from their axis ally in a submarine with the wings removed or in a freighter or was it flown to Japan?

ElAurens
09-05-2008, 03:53 PM
The IJAAF also had a Stuka and an FW190.

ImMoreBetter
09-05-2008, 04:07 PM
The Ki-61 is one of the few planes I can fly and not feel completely helpless.

mortoma
09-05-2008, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
It's OK if people want to develop tactics to do well in a disadvantaged aircraft late in the war. Good for you guys. I could probably do better in it if I wanted to but I just want to fly faster planes that I don't have to fly carefully in. Now the KI-100 ain't too bad but still a little slow. It don't suit my style.

Ah, the I can`t be @rsed to learn style. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Huh?!?! Don't need to learn. I already know how to fly the KI-61 and do OK in it. Just prefer to fly something that has 1943 speed in 1943. Not 1941 speed in 1943, that's all. Besides, although I don't undertand what "@rsed" is supposed to mean, don't know why it offends you that I don't like every plane in the sim. I can like and fly what I want. How's that any skin off your nose? Don't whine just because I don't have the same likes and dislikes as you.

looma_krappy
09-05-2008, 09:30 PM
so i guess we all have a love-hate relationship with it...

perhaps if oleg made a ki-61-II it would have evened this plane out but still, maybe i'll give this plane a shot

thanks for the advice...

btw what's the best climb speed of this plane? :P

OMK_Hand
09-06-2008, 05:22 AM
Hi looma krappy.

Il2Compare shows a best climb speed of 230 km/h for all types.

This also may (or may not) be of use:

Climb: 2400 rpm (95%) +12.5 (96%)
Cruise: 2200 rpm (80%) +8 (88%)
Economy Cruise: 1200 rpm (30%) -6 (50%)
Best at: Around 4,800m

Also bear in mind whatever LEBillfish says http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I find that it's very hard to find specific info for japanese types.

looma_krappy
09-07-2008, 01:09 AM
i gave the hien (with cannons) a shot last night, and i killed a p-38 dude twice and a la-7... but the latter was a lucky head-on kill

i noticed that i still lost alot of energy after each pass, and climbing wasn't as quick as say, a 109F/G-2 or something

I also noticed that once you're out of energy, it's extremely difficult to escape the danger zone. I also found it more difficult to limp home on a damaged engine compared to other aircraft... but the damage modelling is great IMO hehe.

anyways, how do I bounce enemies without bleeding too much energy? and how do i deal with spitfires and la-7s if, say, my advantage isnt too significant?

thanks all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VW-IceFire
09-07-2008, 09:12 AM
Against an La-7 you're outclassed completely...you MAY be able to out turn him but that advantage rapidly dries up your energy.

Against a Spitfire you have to play it like a 109 and focus as much as possible on the vertical.

In either case utilizing as much surprise as possible is the key.

I use air racing techniques in the Ki-61...minimal amounts of stick input. Keep the plane aerodynamically clean. Close radiators for dives and climbs until speed drops off in the climb and then open it again.

Metatron_123
09-07-2008, 11:53 AM
Some planes are just better, no matter how much we want to philosophize it.

Pilot's skill is one thing, but it doesn't hurt to use a good plane.

Plus it doesn't hurt putting the plane against its' historical adversaries, P-40s, P-38s, P-39s to begin with and Hellcats, Corsairs, P-51s and P-47 later on.

It's a great plane against it's early adversaries, later on it gets outclassed just like in real life.