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Jumoschwanz
05-31-2005, 02:14 PM
It often happens online where for some reason a foe will engage you that seems to be holding all the cards.

Recently, I was on a full-difficulty type server and had a Yak1B come down on me from above and behind. I was in a 109E4, a slower plane that will not outurn this model yak. I shot him down.
Also I was engaged by a Spit9 with a slight altitude advantage. I was in a 109K4 with the mk108 gunpods on, I shot him down even after he scored hits on my craft.
I was engaged with an La5fn with which I could not maintain his rate of turn or alt without stalling out, and I shot him down.
These are just three examples of coming from what many would consider a disadvantage, and coming out the victor.

There are tactics you can employ to defeat an enemy from any position or disadvantage. The tactics are part psychological and part physics.

I have been flying the 109 models for most of the last three years, and very often I am engaged with an allied craft that either will out-turn me, has an alt advantage, or better elevator response at high speed. These tactics of course can be used by anybody flying anything. It is the pilot that makes the day, not his equipment.

First, in the engagement where the yak1B was coming down on me from above in my 109e4. He had all the cards right? A faster plane, a good turning plane, and a great E advantage.
When I looked and saw him coming down on my tail, first I knew because of my slower speed I could out-manuever him, so at the right moment I moved and let him go by. He did what he should have done, using his great speed he climbed quickly back up out of my reach. I did not even attempt to go up with him, this is what he would have liked! Instead I went straight and level, putting distance between us as he climbed and lost speed. Now he was a ways away still at superior altitude. I was at a distance with no alt but still with my full cruising speed. Now he came back down on me again, but this time it was not on my six as I had done a easy turn and now could meet him almost head-on. I dodged his shot and again he went back up and I went straight and far away at high speed.
With each attack, if the foe wants to keep engaging you, he will lose his initial alt advantage, and you will gain the advantage of meeting his attacks head on.
Eventually when you are on more equal footing he may use his planes better turning ability to try and get on your tail. You won't let this happen though. Instead of following a foe who is better turning and watching him slowly turn the table on you, straighten out and go vertical, then fall back in the direction to give yourself a shot anywhere from head-on to 90 degrees of deflection. Or dive down across the steady arc he is making intending to come up and hit him at ninety degrees to your travel.
There is a good chance he will see your move and counter, but what matters is you have broken the pattern of the fight from a battle of turning to a battle of scissoring and shot making, something you have some chance at.

And you have to be a great shot! Your days of shooting at targets from thier dead six, or leading them in an arc are over! You HAVE to develop the ability to line up a shot on a target that is traveling at any angle to yours. This will increase the chances of you hitting a target exponentially, as you no longer have to be on their tail, all they have to do is cross your path.

You HAVE to learn not to follow the leader. Even in a scissors a lot of guys will wait for the foe to cross under them before they initiate the next turn in a scissor fight. You must start to beat the other guy to a turn. If you turn AS he is turning and turn with him you can put yourself in the position to make a shot sooner and more often. YOu have to anticipate what the other guy is going to do and do it before him, this way, even in an inferior craft you can keep up.

When I was in the K4 with the heavy 30mm gunpods, the spit went into a sustained turn I could not hope to keep without stalling. I could not stay with him at all without losing control. So I dove down toward the ground and came back up. Sure he saw me and countered, but he was countering my moves now instead of me chasing him and playing his game. I broke up the turn fight into a scissoring, shot making and rolling contest.
With three 30mm cannons on board I knew I only needed one shot, and I got it. He crossed my path at 90 degrees and I am well practiced enough that I was able to hit him.

In short, the trick is to not play the game they want to. Break up the fight so it is not a turn-contest. Fly away when the foe least expects it and gain distance. Dive down across his sustained circle, go vertical and fall back on him. Dive into some clouds and change direction.
Know your planes strengths and use them. Can you dive or roll faster? At what speed do you have this advantage or that advantage?

Become a great shot-maker. Learn to line-up and make shots at a foe no matter what the angle of travel, then you can make many more shots than if you wait for a chance to outfly them and get on their six. Eventually you will even be able to make a good guess when a foe is coming up under your nose you cannot see at the moment, you will pull the trigger and he will fly through your rounds!

Many times online, no matter what the foe, from a Spit9 to an I-185, I will choose the 109g2 with the 20mm gunpods. This is not the fastest or best turning craft, but it can throw more cannon rounds per second in the air than anything short of a fw190, which has one more cannon. Coupled with good cockpit visibilityrolling ability, and low speed manueverability, it is an easy plane to make shots in. When being attacked from greater altitude and speed I can move out of the way. I can get away and turn to bring the guns to bear anywhere from head-on to 90 degrees and make a shot. It is my game and I am good enough at it to even things up even though I am up against an La-7, yak-3, spit or some other great turning craft. I just do not turn except to keep them crossing my path instead of us being on the same path, then I can make the shots and cut them down to size.
If I am not in my favorite plane, then I take what I can get and still use the same tactics. The only planes I will try to out turn are ones I KNOW I can out-turn.

Some get pi$$ed off at you. You are using energy and shot-making and not playing their game. This is kind of funny. An I-16 pilot taunted me because I would not turn fight him with a 109E. Why would I? I would get shot down right? I flew away, gained distance and came back toward him at high speed, took a glancing shot and took out his engine. After shooting down some Spits, La7s, Yak3s and so forth with a 109g2 on one server I was accused of cheating. I said yes, my unfair advantage was BRAINS! I just used zoom and boom and good shot making, and never turned with any of them. The server host, who always flies VVS, even got into the same plane as I was flying to see why it was so "uber"! As if it was the plane that shot them down. They never looked at what I was doing.

Even if you can only manage to get a head-on shot, you have maybe a 50/50 chance, and maybe better if you have lots of cannons, shoot first or are a great shot.

If a foe is staying above you and keeps coming down on you over and over, if you cannot dodge his shots, then watch and turn vertical and meet him head-on, for your 50/50 shot at glory.
In summary. I spent much time losing turn fights to better turning craft before I quit turning with them. I saw someone asking for a way to defeat late VVS craft, and thought I would try and help. Your tactics, shot making and smart flying are the only thing that will let you defeat an opponent with a better plane or better position. The pilot in the better plane or position will nine times out of ten lose patience and make a mistake, allowing you to get a shot or eliminate his advantage. Two smart pilots who know thier planes fully, even thought they are different planes, should come close to a draw every time, or run out of gas trying! Hope this helps......S!

noshens
05-31-2005, 02:25 PM
cliffs?

Cajun76
05-31-2005, 03:01 PM
Nearly all that applies to flying a P-47 successfully in situations where you don't have an alt advantage or you start to lose the advantage and need to counter. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

spitfire22287
05-31-2005, 03:12 PM
Also I was engaged by a Spit9 with a slight altitude advantage. I was in a 109K4 with the mk108 gunpods on, I shot him down even after he scored hits on my craft.


That was most likely me!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

FoolTrottel
05-31-2005, 03:17 PM
You are so right ! Calling in the BRAINS!

I started combat flight 'simulation' with Chuck Yeager's Air Combat, and whenever you selected a mission in it, Chuck often said:

"Remember, it's the man, not the machine ..."

Thanks for this post! Great Reading! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

(Not that it is a lot of help to me, I wouldn't think of using my a lot of my BRAINS in this game. My brain's too tired after a days work, even in the weekends I just want to enjoy and relax ... and using the game, I can surely have fun ... and relax ...!)

Have Fun!

Tachyon1000
05-31-2005, 06:33 PM
Great post. I plan to commit these items to memory. One caveat I see here though perhaps is that most of these scenarios require that the foe would overshoot you using their E advantage thus requiring them to disengage for a time. If the pilot is flying inside the envelope and in control I see very little options as to shaking an allied plane from one's 6 besides the scissors which I find unreliable.

Jumoschwanz
05-31-2005, 07:25 PM
Getting a good pilot off your six when he is at your same speed was not the subject of the thread but is just as often a problem.

This is where knowing the strengths and weaknesses of the different planes, and knowing your favorite plane like the back of your hand becomes invaluable.
I have had mustangs on the tail of my 109 at high alt where they are supposed to own the day, so then I dive, and if they keep after me I have been able to outroll them and scissor back and forth enough to either get a shot or make them uncomfortable enough to leave me alone.

I also spent a lot of time testing the minimum alt I can split S at, at different speeds. A lot of folks have flown into the ground trying to follow me, or will have to break off my six when they cannot. I have crossed up a lot of spits on my six by outrolling and scissoring them at low speeds too. So the battle is never over for the man who knows his plane and can play its strengths against another planes weaknesses.

I hate hard work. So I try and use Judo, and use the opponents moves against him while moving as little as I have to. Once you learn how to move, you are never on the limit of your planes performance as much.

I have a good track I took of me in a K100 vs four Hellcats, dead full-difficulty settings. If you watch it and keep the views on automatic, you will see how I look around, dodge bullets, and line up full deflection shots. If anyone wants me to email it to them PM me where to send it. I might have more similiar tracks also.

After three and a half years on HL, there sure are a lot more good pilots now than in the beginning, a lot more pilots period. It is easy to tell someone who does not have the knack of things and makes mistakes, because those are the ones who you shoot down. The real good pilots will very often, even if you have a good bounce on them, be able to get away or turn the table on you if you do not disable them with the first hit.
Like Hartmann said, if he found himself in a dogfight he knew he did something wrong...But on the busy server, you will want to have fun and mix it up, and you will have more fun if at least a quarter or a half of the time you come out on top, so we have be know it alls and be able to zoom and boom, turn and burn, and do ground attack and bombing so we can have fun at our whim.

If I am flying a plane I know well I will not mind mixing it up so much, if I am in a strange plane, I will find one strength it has and go with it. I am a terrible FW190 pilot. But I know it will roll and has good speed so I will use the speed to attack and hit and run, and the rolling to get away. If I try to turn and burn in it I am toast every time usually. I just do not fly it enough to use it on that level. There are so many planes in this sim you have to have a few favorites you know best to fall back on and be at home in.

There is IL2 compare, which can help you see what strengths of different planes are, or like me, you can put in the time and design a few courses in the FMB and run every plane in the sim through it and measure their performance! But that is an awful lot of work....

S!

Jumoschwanz

blakduk
05-31-2005, 07:42 PM
Thanks Jumoschwanz- i've recently taken the challenge of mastering the 109, mostly the later models. I'll keep your tips handy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bull_dog_
05-31-2005, 08:37 PM
Another fantastic trick to defeat an enemy's attack is to barrel roll...can't be followed if the enemy has greater speed...and if he doesn't, that is when you scissors to get him close and break turn at an opportune moment...Jumo is right...the trick is to always turn into your opponent when you are at a disadvantage, but you must put enough distance between you and him so as to either defeat his head on or get yours off first...30mm cannons have a way of rattling the enemy in a head on situation...gunnery and tactics...those are the things that separate the aces from the rest of the crowd. It is not magical flying ability, but rather knowledge of angles, energy, and human nature along with good old gunnery skills.

Tallyho1961
05-31-2005, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
Getting a good pilot off your six when he is at your same speed was not the subject of the thread but is just as often a problem.

This is where knowing the strengths and weaknesses of the different planes, and knowing your favorite plane like the back of your hand becomes invaluable.
I have had mustangs on the tail of my 109 at high alt where they are supposed to own the day, so then I dive, and if they keep after me I have been able to outroll them and scissor back and forth enough to either get a shot or make them uncomfortable enough to leave me alone.

I also spent a lot of time testing the minimum alt I can split S at, at different speeds. A lot of folks have flown into the ground trying to follow me, or will have to break off my six when they cannot. I have crossed up a lot of spits on my six by outrolling and scissoring them at low speeds too. So the battle is never over for the man who knows his plane and can play its strengths against another planes weaknesses.

I hate hard work. So I try and use Judo, and use the opponents moves against him while moving as little as I have to. Once you learn how to move, you are never on the limit of your planes performance as much.

I have a good track I took of me in a K100 vs four Hellcats, dead full-difficulty settings. If you watch it and keep the views on automatic, you will see how I look around, dodge bullets, and line up full deflection shots. If anyone wants me to email it to them PM me where to send it. I might have more similiar tracks also.

After three and a half years on HL, there sure are a lot more good pilots now than in the beginning, a lot more pilots period. It is easy to tell someone who does not have the knack of things and makes mistakes, because those are the ones who you shoot down. The real good pilots will very often, even if you have a good bounce on them, be able to get away or turn the table on you if you do not disable them with the first hit.
Like Hartmann said, if he found himself in a dogfight he knew he did something wrong...But on the busy server, you will want to have fun and mix it up, and you will have more fun if at least a quarter or a half of the time you come out on top, so we have be know it alls and be able to zoom and boom, turn and burn, and do ground attack and bombing so we can have fun at our whim.

If I am flying a plane I know well I will not mind mixing it up so much, if I am in a strange plane, I will find one strength it has and go with it. I am a terrible FW190 pilot. But I know it will roll and has good speed so I will use the speed to attack and hit and run, and the rolling to get away. If I try to turn and burn in it I am toast every time usually. I just do not fly it enough to use it on that level. There are so many planes in this sim you have to have a few favorites you know best to fall back on and be at home in.

There is IL2 compare, which can help you see what strengths of different planes are, or like me, you can put in the time and design a few courses in the FMB and run every plane in the sim through it and measure their performance! But that is an awful lot of work....

S!

Jumoschwanz

I have printed many of your tactical discussion posts and learned a lot from them. Are you able to post the track you mentioned above? I would love to see it.

Thank you for sharing your experience with those of us still learning the craft!

Dave.

VW-IceFire
05-31-2005, 10:22 PM
Excellent description of tactics. I think I've used those before but not to the finnese or level that you have. Its good for a refresher and its good to understand ACM a bit more deeply.

edradour
06-01-2005, 01:42 AM
All of this pre-supposes you can shoot.

This is one skill that I can not find taught anywhere.
Plenty of people who will demonstrate how good they are, few (none) who will tell you what you are doing wrong, and why.

WTE_Ibis
06-01-2005, 03:42 AM
Originally posted by Tallyho1961:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
Getting a good pilot off your six when he is at your same speed was not the subject of the thread but is just as often a problem.

This is where knowing the strengths and weaknesses of the different planes, and knowing your favorite plane like the back of your hand becomes invaluable.
I have had mustangs on the tail of my 109 at high alt where they are supposed to own the day, so then I dive, and if they keep after me I have been able to outroll them and scissor back and forth enough to either get a shot or make them uncomfortable enough to leave me alone.

I also spent a lot of time testing the minimum alt I can split S at, at different speeds. A lot of folks have flown into the ground trying to follow me, or will have to break off my six when they cannot. I have crossed up a lot of spits on my six by outrolling and scissoring them at low speeds too. So the battle is never over for the man who knows his plane and can play its strengths against another planes weaknesses.

I hate hard work. So I try and use Judo, and use the opponents moves against him while moving as little as I have to. Once you learn how to move, you are never on the limit of your planes performance as much.

I have a good track I took of me in a K100 vs four Hellcats, dead full-difficulty settings. If you watch it and keep the views on automatic, you will see how I look around, dodge bullets, and line up full deflection shots. If anyone wants me to email it to them PM me where to send it. I might have more similiar tracks also.

After three and a half years on HL, there sure are a lot more good pilots now than in the beginning, a lot more pilots period. It is easy to tell someone who does not have the knack of things and makes mistakes, because those are the ones who you shoot down. The real good pilots will very often, even if you have a good bounce on them, be able to get away or turn the table on you if you do not disable them with the first hit.
Like Hartmann said, if he found himself in a dogfight he knew he did something wrong...But on the busy server, you will want to have fun and mix it up, and you will have more fun if at least a quarter or a half of the time you come out on top, so we have be know it alls and be able to zoom and boom, turn and burn, and do ground attack and bombing so we can have fun at our whim.

If I am flying a plane I know well I will not mind mixing it up so much, if I am in a strange plane, I will find one strength it has and go with it. I am a terrible FW190 pilot. But I know it will roll and has good speed so I will use the speed to attack and hit and run, and the rolling to get away. If I try to turn and burn in it I am toast every time usually. I just do not fly it enough to use it on that level. There are so many planes in this sim you have to have a few favorites you know best to fall back on and be at home in.

There is IL2 compare, which can help you see what strengths of different planes are, or like me, you can put in the time and design a few courses in the FMB and run every plane in the sim through it and measure their performance! But that is an awful lot of work....

S!

Jumoschwanz

I have printed many of your tactical discussion posts and learned a lot from them. Are you able to post the track you mentioned above? I would love to see it.

Thank you for sharing your experience with those of us still learning the craft!

Dave. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I too love the 109 but am a lousy shot.
I also would appreciate a look at the track.
Cheers, Ibis.

Philipscdrw
06-01-2005, 04:01 AM
Thanks very much Jumoschwans!

The problem I often have online, is that I spend 20 minutes blundering about the sky in the P-38, eventually find and get over a fight, dive, and find my inexperience leads to burning engines from the Fw-190... It's difficult to get ACM experience for me!

(That was when I was flying on the server that uses Normandy map, but to a lesser extent on Warclouds too)

mynameisroland
06-01-2005, 04:14 AM
I agree with what your saying Jumo, even lastnight I was having fights like you mentioned. A Stall fight in the vertical in a 109 E4 vs a Hurri who was turning on the edge of his stall. And a similar fight against a Yak 7 with me in a Fw A5. I kept extending and using speed and E he was smart and outturned me when I closed to firing range. But if you can get snap shots off and you have 4 x 20mm cannon you stand a good chance in a dogfight.

It also helps if you are in a plane you know intimately, I know all of the Fw's advantages and disadadvantages against its opponents. In the 109 series I feel comfortable in the E4/7 G2 and G6. I dont ever fly the G6AS/G10/14 or K4 so I wouldnt be happy taking them to the limit in a fight. I also am a fairly average allied fighter pilot with the exception of the Mustang. Its just type familiarity, trusting yourself and knowing when to push it, when to extend and when to run for base ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

It also helps if you are fighting a guy who is less experienced then you can pull of great results even against La7's / Yak 3's when in an Fw F8. Ive also fought myself to many draws against experienced fliers out there. This is great as its what happened occasionally in RL too !

waffen-79
06-01-2005, 04:39 AM
hey Jumoschwanz, I'd really love to see those tracks, because I mostly fly the k4 or g6AS with 108's pods

TIA

Marc-David
06-01-2005, 05:37 AM
I, too, would like to be enlightend by watching some tracks of these events.

Yours, MD

OldMan____
06-01-2005, 05:52 AM
Afetr long time I realised almnost no tatics survive to make them fear tatics. Just try put at the earliest , no matter how arkward deflection shoot position possible and shoot. 90% of pilots will think you are in fact with a good target solution and will make evasive.. spoiling any good maneuver they were doing. this works nicew for me in my FW190A, Usually I make spits brak turns much before half a turn. And is instintive.. when someone shoots at you you go to defensive position at least for a few seconds.

IDF_Raam
06-01-2005, 12:59 PM
A great post, i will PM for the track.

jurinko
06-01-2005, 01:38 PM
good stuff Jumo.

Bull_dog_
06-01-2005, 04:59 PM
In terms of gunnery...it does take practice but it can be learned, at least to the limit of hand eye coordination.

#1 rule... don't get excited...cool, steady hand is what kills. Flinching will do minimal damage. This is my number one obstacle to good shooting.

#2 rule...line up on where the aircraft will be, not where he is...sounds simple but there are odd angles that require some extrapolation

#3 rule...shoot only when you know you will hit. Everything else is a waste of ammo. You have to start practicing somewhere and this is a good place to be. Sometimes, the evasive manuevers of an enemy just don't warrent the time for a kill. You may not get them all and this is OK!

#4 rule...as a famous ace once said, get close and when you think you are too close, get closer. This is especially true of nose mounted weaponry. Wing mounted guns is another matter...there are many convergence settings but if you are over 250 meters then you need to shorten up or take over this thread as you are more qualified than me and thousands of other online flyers.

#5 rule...learn to aim with your rudder. This is especially critical of aircraft with a combination of good roll rates and good high speed control authority. The tendency is to over control and a rudder adjustment is often the key to consistant gunnery. Like #1 above, you just have to imagine where your enemy will be and set up and take the shot when it presents itself and be willing to walk away from a fight that is dragging on too long because of the enemy pilots evasion skills. Fw's are notoriously difficult targets.

Rule #6...learn your weapons trajectory and velocity. If you go from .50's to mk108's there is a good chance you'll shoot behind everything for a bit with the 108's due to velocity differences..they are modelled so expect a difference in deflection.

Rule #7...when possible, always go for a tracking shot as opposed to a snap shot. This will require a steady hand and maybe some joystick settings to be altered, but no plane can withstand more than a second of rounds on target if the target is in deflection...sometimes a straight 6 o'clock shot doesn't do good but a good tracking burst is the most deadly shot to be made...explosions, structural failures and PK's are normal with all weapons including 4x.50's. The limiting factors are your hand steadiness and your ability to pull and hold the proper lead.

Enough for now. Gunnery can be learned and I think there are naturals and there are those like me that have to learn the hard way but you can improve...the first thing is to set out to improve them.

Atomic_Marten
06-01-2005, 05:11 PM
Good rules you have there. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
About your rule no.4 Bull_dog_, I agree/disagree to certain level.

I think that depends a lot on situation and maybe more on aircraft you fly.

I find it best for late war gunnery to be at distances 180-350m.

I have been damaged many times due to enemy target aircraft explosion (enemy aircraft is set on fire and blast affact my aircraft, or he explode during my attack).
Also, it is far easier to aim on distance then if your target is on .08k from you -- at least for me is because I track enemy evading moves easier.

Of course all this is IMHO. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Jumoschwanz
06-02-2005, 10:53 AM
I sent some tracks of evasive flying and gunnery techniques out to a half dozen who PMed me thier email addresses. I will take a look at the links to file hosting services this weekend, and maybe learn myself to post files here!

S!

Jumoschwanz

MOH_MADMAN
06-02-2005, 11:54 AM
Great Post!

The words of a seasoned pilot.

The old and new will read. Some will learn, the rest will turn.

As it has always been.

but thanks for lighting the lamp.

S~
MAD

JG54_Arnie
06-02-2005, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by edradour:
All of this pre-supposes you can shoot.

This is one skill that I can not find taught anywhere.
Plenty of people who will demonstrate how good they are, few (none) who will tell you what you are doing wrong, and why.

The main thing will always be practise. If people show you good gunnery they got there by practising a lot. Start by shooting down easy targets and slowly work it up to smaller and faster targets. Never use unlimited ammo as it simply spoils your necessity for aiming properly and it makes it too easy to spray and pray.
What I usually do to practise it is to set up a QM in the QMB and load up 8 friendlies and 16 enemies all at average skill, which gives you a target rich environment and you can pick your angles yourself to practise on. Works good for me. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Does this help? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

RedDeth
06-02-2005, 12:12 PM
good stuff jumo. many know most of this and STILL wont use it all the time. you mention patience and this is what fails many pilots.

second someone mentioned roundabout that if the superior turn plane with greater speed slows down into you to tail you it might get tough. well most times on DF servers this will get him killed later by other wingmen of yours finding him low and slow.

that being said most smart pilots even with a better turning faster plane will not slow down into your tail. they will overshoot and come back hoping for YOU to make a mistake.

if you have an overly greedy opponent that has skills and is willing to sacrifice his alt and speed then most often you will die and hopefully he will too by others.

dieg777
06-02-2005, 12:33 PM
Nice post and very good advice-
Jumoschwanz- please get in touch with euro_snoopy at airwarfare.com I am sure he will be interested in hosting the tracks.

also on site are some guides on air guns- I have posted some quick practice missions there if anyone is interested see

http://www.airwarfare.com/guides/snapshot.htm

these will only work on merged install

jugent
06-02-2005, 01:34 PM
Thanx for the tips, but how many times have you been shot down under the same circumstances?
Head2head whit a lagg often results in a bullit in the me109 engine and a smeared windshield.
Have you any idea of your killratio under these unfavoured circumstances?

NorrisMcWhirter
06-02-2005, 01:49 PM
Here's a good one that appears to be used more and more often again these days (perhaps as a result of seasonal adjustment syndrome?) - disconnect. He's never going to beat you then.

Otherwise, good tips.

Cheers,
NOrris

Jumoschwanz
06-02-2005, 01:54 PM
As far as gunnery goes, it is hard for anyone to hit a foe from the dead six position, or lead a target in a constant turn. The shot from the dead six is the smallest target, and following a foe in a constant turn and leading him often means putting him under your nose where he can change direction and dissapear undetected!

For these reasons, and also because my style of countermoves often sets them up, I aim where a target is going to be, and I have them fly through a stream of shells. Often this catches them at a better angle. In the case of the near 90 degree deflection shot, not only is the target many times bigger now, but the whole top or bottom of their aircraft can be exposed to a rain of projectiles. This makes it more likely to damage the wings and tailplane, and kill the pilot and engine of a foe.

This is also the reason I do not like flying any craft with one big nose cannon, like the late mk108 equipped 109s, the P39 or others. In the split second it takes them to fly through your stream of fire, I have had countless foes fly IN-BETWEEN the shells of the large cannon with no hits except for a few from the light maching guns, which don't do the job.
You need a good hail from six or eight fifties, or from faster firing and preferably multiple 20mm cannons. The multiple 30mm cannons will do the job, but the plane is a real truck to fly, mostly good for bombers.

When I attack a bomber formation, I will approach it from alt and zoom down under them as fast as the plane will go, 800+km/hr, then come up from below at a near 90 degree deflection shot where I am traveling near vertical at 500-600km/hr. when I meet the bomber. This works from a head-on or tail-end approach, but they are only in my sights for a fraction of a second, so I need to put a lot of shells in the air, and with the single cannons, I have seen often only slim to no hits in a pass like this.

The right moves and technique will not only make it so it will take a really good pilot or a lucky bounce to get you hit, but also tend to have the foe cross in front of your cannons at some angle when they will be firing a disabling or lethal stream of fire.

It is a lot of work to turn fight with someone, especially when they are in a really fast and nimble plane. When you do things right you will be using a lot less control inputs, but the ones you do execute will be the right ones and the right time. Kind of like an experienced automobile driver uses the steering brakes and gas a lot less than a nervous student who is always making steering corrections and uneccessary applications of the gas and brake to go from light to light.
When you do it with no thought, it turns out the best.
And the only way to get things to happen with no thought is hard study and practice.

Lastly, you might as well relax and have fun. If you cannot have fun while doing it this it is time to stop for a bit and sort your attitude out. Get used to being shot down, even the aces with the most experience and best stats get bounced or outnumbered and shot down very regularly. So don't think you are making yourself invulnerable, or that their is some IL2 nirvana to attain. With insight and practice you can be competent, relax and have fun. Sounds good huh?

S!

Jumoschwanz

Hrdina
06-02-2005, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
I sent some tracks of evasive flying and gunnery techniques out to a half dozen who PMed me thier email addresses. I will take a look at the links to file hosting services this weekend, and maybe learn myself to post files here!
I received the tracks you sent; thank you very kindly! S~

I look forward to getting v4 so that I can check out that 2nd track.

Some comments from a n00b (<10 total hours flying online), for what they're worth.

Your gunnery is very impressive. I don't think I saw a single wasted shell from you throughout your mission.

I was almost getting seasick following your flying. Part of that was no doubt because I disabled manual view control but still kept trying to turn my head. But, at least once you were looking sideways, then put your eyes ahead when only about 50m above ground.

Your kill, though, was a lesson to people who don't scan the sky. After the leader took a little of your lead, he broke off and his wingman dutifully fell in behind him and flew nice and level for you. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Again, thanks a lot for sharing. Hopefully I'll learn something from this for my next foray online.